50 Cent Says The Movie Industry Will Get New Laws Passed That Will Help The Music Industry

from the say-what-now? dept

Tue, May 4th 2010 10:22am — Mike Masnick

Hmm. Last fall, we wrote about 50 Cent (Curtis Jackson's) excellent appearance on CNBC, where he said he didn't worry about file sharing because he saw it as a part of the marketing:

"the people who didn't purchase the material, they end up at the concert."

That seemed rather forward looking of him. Now, however, he seems a bit more ambivalent. Copycense points us to an interview with 50, where he at first notes that the music industry is doing fine... but then busts out the claim that they need to pass new laws to help the industry:

"I don't think the music business is dying," 50 says in the interview. "I think we're just experiencing technology and we just have to pass new laws, eventually, to change how music is being distributed. There's no lack of interest in great material, I don't see people 'not' going to the night club or enjoying themselves when the song comes on. It's just about re-developing what the music business is. It's easier to download a song that's three minutes long, probably about three or four seconds for you to download it, it's easier to steal...The technology is so new and what we're actually doing on the web that we have to develop that."

But... uh... wasn't he just saying that the file sharing acted as marketing for his other lines of business? He seems to go back and forth between recognizing this and saying that new laws are needed, even though it's not clear why. Then he claims that those new laws are coming... just as soon as Hollywood learns that movies are being shared online (apparently 50 hasn't paid attention to what's popular on the file sharing sites these days):

"And those things won't actually happen, the effective laws won't happen until it starts to damage film. When you got your blockbuster film doing $120 million in a weekend and then that blockbuster film that they spent $120 million comes out and nobody goes to see but everybody watched it because they could pull it off their computer and see it on HD at home on a theater. They'll change those laws."

Except, uh, those movies all can be downloaded, and are downloaded... and people still go to theater, just like they "still go to the night club" or to concerts, because of the social experience of going out. It's why some of the most successful movies are also the most downloaded. It's why even as it's quite easy to download a film (contrary to what he appears to believe), box office results keep hitting record highs. And, it's not like the MPAA isn't working hard to try to change those laws, but (thankfully) there doesn't seem to be enough appetite for the type of massive copyright changes the MPAA would like to see.

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Filed Under: 50 cent, copyright, laws

86 Comments

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RD, 4 May 2010 @ 10:28am

IM2 DOA!
Awesome! Thanks for posting a "the movie business will DIE because of piracy!" article. Because just in the last couple of days, Iron Man 2 (one of the most anticipated movies of the year) was released as a cam copy around the internet. So, according to all the doomsayers, IM2 will do about 5 mil of business right? Right?? Because, you know, downloading will destroy the market for the movie because you can see it at home, and BEFORE the movie is even released here! It should be an armageddon of biblical proportions, right? RIGHT? Please let us hear from the usual loudmouth whiners on this, I really want to hear them piss and moan and then watch the movie make $70-100 mil this weekend. Please. I am dying to see you hypocrites eat it.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 10:35am

it appears he has seen both sides of the coin. he understands the potential for promotion, but also understands that when it gets too widespread, it takes away the money that makes the whole thing possible. i think he sees the light.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 10:42am

Re:
How could hundreds of millions of people around the world be wrong?
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Steve, 4 May 2010 @ 10:48am

"When you got your blockbuster film doing $120 million in a weekend and then that blockbuster film that they spent $120 million comes out and nobody goes to see but everybody watched it because they could pull it off their computer and see it on HD at home on a theater. They'll change those laws."

The way I read that, it sounds like he believes in a system where the gov't guarantees businesses a ROI.
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 10:49am

Re: IM2 DOA!
"Because, you know, downloading will destroy the market for the movie because you can see it at home, and BEFORE the movie is even released here!"

Like how X-Men origins and Star Wars III just totally bombed in the theaters? They had a total of what, 5 people pay?

/sarcasm (in case it didn't just jump out of the screen and smack you)
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Steve, 4 May 2010 @ 10:51am

Re:
Well, actually ... it doesn't sound like that reading it again, but still, you're comparing two methods of dissemination.

It's an interesting scenario though, where the masses are outlaws.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 10:55am

Re: Re:
It's a good thing that the entertainment industry has been praising outlaws in music and movies for the last few decades. I'm sure that won't be a problem. I mean, what's cooler than a pirate? An outlaw that takes justice into their own hands. Plays by their own rules. Gets shot multiple times but lives to tell the tale.

No problems what-so-ever.
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RD, 4 May 2010 @ 10:57am

Re: Re: IM2 DOA!
"Because, you know, downloading will destroy the market for the movie because you can see it at home, and BEFORE the movie is even released here!"

Like how X-Men origins and Star Wars III just totally bombed in the theaters? They had a total of what, 5 people pay?

/sarcasm (in case it didn't just jump out of the screen and smack you)"

Exactly! Like how wolverine didnt make ANY money, despite being a) not a very good movie and b) LEAKED BEFORE it was released (on the order of WEEKS ahead), or how like Dark Knight was THE most "pirated" movie (of all time?) and yet FAILED MISERABLY at the box office! OH and Avatar! AVATAR! What a COLOSSAL failure! Did great business until about 4 days after release, when the first "pirated" cam copies came out, and WHAM! TOTAL tank from there on out! Right? This all happened, right? Thats the ONLY outcome, right?
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 11:02am

Re: Re:
because the 100s of millions arent making content they are just stealing it. sort of different. we would all like to drive free ferraris too. maybe we can get those pesky car theft laws overturned, they are such a downer.
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Hephaestus (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 11:02am

""And those things won't actually happen, the effective laws won't happen until it starts to damage film. When you got your blockbuster film doing $120 million in a weekend and then that blockbuster film that they spent $120 million comes out and nobody goes to see but everybody watched it because they could pull it off their computer and see it on HD at home on a theater. They'll change those laws." "

They will change the laws and then they will end up with Sweden, Spain, South Korea, or Japan all over again. In every case it follows the same pattern, law passed, file sharing drops for a short period, media advertising goes up in that country, sales go up for a short period, 3-6 months after the law was passed downloading is higher than before the law.

If you look at Spain there is no solution for the future due to the high infringement rates and percentage of people who file share. South Korea, Japan, and Sweden will follow in that order. The movie and music companies will with draw like they are planning, and have already done in Spain.

This is going to be fun to watch ...
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 11:04am

Re:
no they are suggesting that the government should help to protect their property in the same way they protect yours. would you enjoy it if everyone in your neighborhood used your car, peed in your livingroom, and kicked your dog? they arent asking for assured roi, you are exaggerating worse than the masnick does. they are just asking for the same protections that other citizens get.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 11:06am

Re:
dont confuse file transfer volumes with actual number of people trading. files are bigger than they were. but sales of music and movies are up in all those countries you list. odd isnt it? if the movie companies withdraw from enough markets, they will stop making content. then good luck trading blank discs and empty torrent files. enjoy the mess you make.
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 11:07am

Re: Re: Re:
Nah, I'm all for the car theft laws. Now if I had the skills to build myself a copy of my neighbor's Ferrari, that's a different story.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 11:07am

Re: Re: Re:
The day that we can make a perfect replica of a car is the day that car theft laws will become irrelevant.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 11:08am

Re: Re:
Intellectual privilege isn't anything like real property. The laws that cover each are also different. But the government should treat them the same?
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 11:08am

Re: Re:
Oh, we will.
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RD, 4 May 2010 @ 11:09am

Once again 'Tards...InfringementTheft
"because the 100s of millions arent making content they are just stealing it. sort of different. we would all like to drive free ferraris too. maybe we can get those pesky car theft laws overturned, they are such a downer."

Thats because stealing DEPRIVES someone of that thing. Stealing is NOT the same as copying. Get it right before you rant and look like an idiot.
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webcat, 4 May 2010 @ 11:10am

25 cents
50 cents opinion is not worth 25 cents, why dignify his comments with a article.
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Hephaestus (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 11:11am

Re: IM2 DOA!
"Iron Man 2 (one of the most anticipated movies of the year) was released as a cam copy around the internet."

It was released as a CAM in russian, spanish, and french, with no english subtitles.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 11:13am

Jumped the Shark
50 just lost his cool.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 11:13am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
When you can do that give me a call and we can copy together
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RD, 4 May 2010 @ 11:14am

Copyright != creation
"dont confuse file transfer volumes with actual number of people trading. files are bigger than they were. but sales of music and movies are up in all those countries you list. odd isnt it?"

So...then "piracy" really has little impact on sales, no? Your own example man....

" if the movie companies withdraw from enough markets, they will stop making content. then good luck trading blank discs and empty torrent files. enjoy the mess you make."

bwahahahaha. Yeah, because NO ONE ever made any art or wrote anything before copyright. keep believing that drivel. So the majors go away. All that does is provide an OPPORTUNITY for someone ELSE. SOMEONE will ALWAYS make art, regardless of the law. And even then, given your Piracy Armageddon scenario, there are HUNDREDS Of YEARS of content to go through, so its not like sharing will just stop.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 11:20am

Re: Re: Re:
and lets not forget that Hollywood itself was built in piracy.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 11:26am

Re: Once again 'Tards...InfringementTheft
Patents and Copyrights resemble stealing, they deprive me of my rights to copy something or make a product and sell it.
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 11:27am

Re: Re: IM2 DOA!
The one I got my hands on is in English with Russian subtitles.
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lux (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 11:32am

"Except, uh, those movies all can be downloaded, and are downloaded... and people still go to theater, just like they 'still go to the night club' or to concerts, because of the social experience of going out. It's why some of the most successful movies are also the most downloaded."

Yes, box office revenues continue to increase, due to ticket prices, opening of additional theaters with much large capacities, and decent flicks. This is in parallel to the fact that movie downloads rights.

Did you ever stop to think that box office revenues would dramatically increase (MORE!) if ALL file sharing was stopped? Sure, Avatar did great at the box office, and I'm sure some people either downloaded it, and didn't see it in theater or vice versa. However, I'm sick and tired of these poor arguments (i.e. "file-sharing isn't killing the business, the business is booming!), because you have absolutely NO DATA to suggest that box office revenues WOULD NOT increase if all sharing was stopped.

It's just such a poor, one-sided argument that does not beat a simple test of, well what if it was the other way around.
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Hephaestus (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 11:33am

Re: Re:
"dont confuse file transfer volumes with actual number of people trading. files are bigger than they were."

I am not confusing anything. The number of people trading is up, check the numbers for limewire and bit torrent client downloads and online statistics. The number of files being transfered is up, go look at top 100 list of torrented files week by week, and break it out by music and video. Also with methods that are gaining popularity there is no counting weblockers, etc. Also check out the average file size downloaded based on the torrents.

"but sales of music and movies are up in all those countries you list. odd isnt it?"

It not really odd, advertising went up in those countries. These statistics are generated by the industry trying to pass similar laws else where. These statistics are created to allow politicians to rationalize the passage of these laws in their own country. What is funny is that people in the entertainment industry actually take these statistics as proof that what they are doing is working.

It has to do with hope, a hand being extended to a drowning industry.

"if the movie companies withdraw from enough markets, they will stop making content."

This is a bad thing how? We have more user generated content than ever before. I will admit that most of it really sucks. But you do have a few gems out there. Its getting cheaper all the time to produce video and music. As more people create content the math says that there will be more good to great content. As people collaborate on content creation and open the creation process up more rough gems will be polished to become well done jewels.

When the media creation and distribution industries fail they will be replaced. Nature Abhors a Vacuum ...
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Hephaestus (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 11:36am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Join one of the help us build a self replicating machine groups ... reprap, etc
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 11:38am

Re: Re:
It's amusing how quickly you can prove yourself ignorant with each new comment.
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Hephaestus (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 11:39am

Re: 25 cents
If I had a nickel everytime someone made that joke ...
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 11:39am

Re:
Except...the argument made by the industry is that piracy is destroying their industry. The counter-argument is that...it isn't. The fact that movies can still pull in millions of dollars in profits is proof that their argument is incorrect. The End.
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Ryan, 4 May 2010 @ 11:44am

Re:
What's your point? His point is that there is no observed inverse relationship between media sharing activity and revenues. The reason is irrelevant - either way, file sharing is not harming revenues. Your speculation that revenues would have by some amazing coincidence skyrocketed above historic trends at the exact same times that file sharing actually rose and thus kept level is quite specious.

you have absolutely NO DATA to suggest that box office revenues WOULD NOT increase if all sharing was stopped

Do you have any data to suggest that box office revenues would increase if all sharing was stopped? Which is a completely pointless question anyway because file sharing will never be stopped now, and it shouldn't. It provides a very efficient way to transfer information around the world, raising our living standards. But we should attempt to stop it because movie studios are to be guaranteed revenues at the expense of the public? Frankly, it wouldn't even matter if it did hurt box office revenue - technology improves lives for the better, and legacy companies can adapt or fade away. Why is this case any different?
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Hephaestus (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 11:45am

Re:
"because you have absolutely NO DATA to suggest that box office revenues WOULD NOT increase if all sharing was stopped."

hmmm .... and you have no data to say that box office revenues would increase if file sharing were to magically stop.

followed up with what you said ...

"It's just such a poor, one-sided argument that does not beat a simple test of, well what if it was the other way around."
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Steve, 4 May 2010 @ 11:47am

Re: Re:
"no they are suggesting that the government should help to protect their property in the same way they protect yours."

Right, I would agree with that ... but I tend to think that someone with business skills would say, "Hmm, this is what the social trend is, how can we capitalize on that?"
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lux (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 11:47am

Re: Re:
"The fact that movies can still pull in millions of dollars in profits is proof that their argument is incorrect. The End."

Do you have any evidence suggesting otherwise? That the industry would make drastically more money if file sharing wasn't present? Oh you don't, ok.
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mike allen (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 11:48am

Re: Re:
idea for a film?
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lux (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 11:50am

Re: Re:
Do you have any data to suggest that box office revenues would increase if all sharing was stopped?

hmmm .... and you have no data to say that box office revenues would increase if file sharing were to magically stop.

Correct, I don't - and neither do you. But last I checked, I'm not the one spouting this information off via a blog as if it's been proven solid.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 11:55am

Re:
"because you have absolutely NO DATA to suggest that box office revenues WOULD NOT increase if all sharing was stopped."

Even if it would, an assertion you can't support with evidence, it is still evidence that file sharing is not killing the music industry, which is the point being made. The RIAA says file sharing is killing the movie industry but the evidence shows an expanding industry despite increased piracy, suggesting that their claim is false. Is it absolute proof beyond any possible doubt? No, but absolute proof is practically impossible from a scientific perspective. But it is evidence.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 11:56am

Re: Re:
errr... MPAA says piracy is killing the movie industry, not the RIAA. Sorry.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 11:58am

Re: Re: Re:
"But last I checked, I'm not the one spouting this information off via a blog as if it's been proven solid."

But you're missing the point. The point is that the MPAA et all keep arguing on MSM that file sharing is killing the movie/music industry and yet, as you admit, there is no proof of it and we even have evidence contradicting their positive statement.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 11:58am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
et al *
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Mike Masnick (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 12:22pm

Re:
Did you ever stop to think that box office revenues would dramatically increase (MORE!) if ALL file sharing was stopped?

It's possible, though, perhaps unlikely -- seeing as prior to file sharing existing, revenues were significantly lower (ah, details).

But, the point, which you ignore repeatedly, is that the industry insists that file sharing is *destroying* the industry. They're not claiming "oh, we're making less than we would have otherwise."

And the evidence says that they are flat out wrong. The industry is not being destroyed. More movies are being made and more money is being made. So, what point are you making exactly?
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 12:27pm

Re: Re: Re:
You fool just get the charts showing the industry growth and you will see that with or without filesharing it is following a growth trend and it is very unlikely that it would spike based in the last 100 years patterns.

So one can say with great confidence that there would be no growth beyond what is already happening.

Besides historically if there is a great spike in arts is generally followed by the fall of some civilization is like they lost the focus on what really matters(production of real things)
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 12:32pm

Re:
Completely unrelated to the article at hand, but I'll take that one.

We do not have data that will satisfy TAM and a few ACs, we will never have it because piracy will never go away. But, we have a few facts that suggest that revenues not only will not go up but would drop without piracy.

Dark Knight, X-men Origins, and Star Wars III would suggest that piracy and revenue aren't related. Avatar would suggest that having more ways to view something increases revenue. That band (don't remember which) that pulled their music from iTunes and had their CD sells dropped would suggest that removing avenues will drop revenues. There's that artist (can't find the article) who sold out a stadium thanks to piracy. And then there's Nigeria, China, and India with thriving movie businesses.

So, no. We have no hard statistics, never will. But we do have plenty of evidence.
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Nastybutler77 (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 12:38pm

Re: Re: Once again 'Tards...InfringementTheft
"Patents and Copyrights resemble stealing, they deprive me of my rights to copy something or make a product and sell it."

And a mannequin resembles a person, but if you light one on fire you don't go to jail for murder now do you?
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SteelWolf (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 12:42pm

Re: Re:
There's that artist (can't find the article) who sold out a stadium thanks to piracy. I do believe you're referring to Imogen Heap.
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Nastybutler77 (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 12:42pm

Re:
"Did you ever stop to think that box office revenues would dramatically increase (MORE!) if ALL file sharing was stopped?"

Did you ever stop to think that file shareing acts as free advertising for these movies driving more people to want to see it on the big screen? I'm sick and tired of these poor arguments that eliminating file sharing will cause people to suddenly pay for the content they weren't willing to pay for when there was file sharing, because you have absolutely NO DATA to suggest that box office revenues WOULD increase if all file sharing stopped.
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Jeff, 4 May 2010 @ 1:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I for one would love to see the Star Trek revolution happen. Imagine these folks when a real replicator comes out and people are copying everything.
The big dogs in the recording/movie industries will spontaneously combust when they hear about it.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 1:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Once again 'Tards...InfringementTheft
The point is that copyrights and patents resemble stealing more than copyright and patent infringement do.
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Chucklebutte (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 1:06pm

Oh Fiddy
If you are a fan of rap or hip hop, you will know that 50's last studio album was terrible, he past few albums have been awful. He is an average entertainer that got a big hyped up record deal. He should be paying me for the fact I downloaded his crap and that I waste my HD space storing his shit music. He is very lucky I enjoy building my rap/hip hop music collection, and for me to even consider him good enough for my collection should result in some kind of kick back to me. My music is housed on a 1TB drive and is about 1/4 full, best believe when the time comes to either buy a new HD or delete something for room, 50 and his crew of crap rappers and crap cd's will be the first to go!

"Get rich or die tryin' was a classic, now you're rich and tryin to die, you's a dumb bastard"
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Hephaestus (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 1:23pm

Re: Re: Re:
" I'm not the one spouting this information off via a blog as if it's been proven solid."

History is a judgement call mainly created by the winning side.

Archeology is interpreted history based on the scientific study of documents, objects, and dig sites from the past.

Doesn't make much sense as a reponse does it? I do have to point to the history of our comment thread. I didnt point out any facts I just pointed out that your argument was flawed and then bitch slapped you with your own words ... big ole GRIN
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PaulT (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 1:27pm

Re:
"If you look at Spain there is no solution for the future due to the high infringement rates and percentage of people who file share."

If you look at Spain, you see that very few movies get released with their original audio track, there is absolutely no access to a streaming service like Netflix or Hulu for most people and movies often get delayed for 6 months or more. DVDs and video games are often double what they cost in the UK (even when the pound had a poor exchange rate), so most of my friends here import them if they buy them. Yes, that means that numerous Spanish people buy the product, they just don't buy them in Spain. Even then, the postal service can be atrocious in some areas, which is why many don't bother and why a postal DVD service hasn't taken off.

There's a very easy solution - stop ripping people off and allow people to obtain the product they want in the way they want it. Stop with the stupid windowed releases and allow people access to streaming services if that's what they want. Allow the likes of Amazon to sell MP3s to Spanish residents, allow them to access reasonably priced products within Spain instead of inflated prices at a streetside kiosk that stocks 30 DVDs.

The country is currently experiencing 20% unemployment, meaning most people have no disposable income. It doesn't take a genius to work out that people don't have the money to piss away on overpriced entertainment. A reasonably priced streaming service, maybe, but not €15-20 (approx. US$20-26) for every new DVD or CD and €60 (approx US$80) for every new 360/PS3 game. Meet the demand - it's simple, and something that they should have been spending the last decade putting into place.

"The movie and music companies will with draw like they are planning, and have already done in Spain. The movie and music companies will with draw like they are planning, and have already done in Spain."

Yeah, what a f*cking fantastic idea, remove the only legal means that people have of obtaining products. That'll increase sales! Morons.
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RD, 4 May 2010 @ 1:38pm

Re:
"Did you ever stop to think that box office revenues would dramatically increase (MORE!) if ALL file sharing was stopped? Sure, Avatar did great at the box office, and I'm sure some people either downloaded it, and didn't see it in theater or vice versa. However, I'm sick and tired of these poor arguments (i.e. "file-sharing isn't killing the business, the business is booming!), because you have absolutely NO DATA to suggest that box office revenues WOULD NOT increase if all sharing was stopped.

It's just such a poor, one-sided argument that does not beat a simple test of, well what if it was the other way around."

The arrow points both ways man. By the exact same argument, you have NO DATA that box office revenues WOULD increase if all sharing was stopped. Whats good for the goose...
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Andrew D. Todd, 4 May 2010 @ 1:42pm

Who Is 50 Cent?
I had never heard of 50 Cent. So I looked him up on Google. 50 Cent would appear to be a nasty and worthless young man who repeatedly glorifies the act of killing people in the course of armed robberies and the act of dealing drugs. He is himself a habitual criminal. His values are comprehensively false. Any teenager who spends all his time listening to 50 Cent, and adulates him, behaves as a fan, in short, should be given a good spanking for being a blithering idiot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent
http://www.50centonline.com/

I don't know about you, but I could not give a tinker's damm if 50 Cent starves in the gutter. However, I trust we can use this. We can force any politician who takes money from the recording industry to publicly recognize that he is really taking money from 50 Cent. I wonder how that will play with Mrs. Front-Porch-America.
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RD, 4 May 2010 @ 1:42pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Moron alert!
"You fool just get the charts showing the industry growth and you will see that with or without filesharing it is following a growth trend and it is very unlikely that it would spike based in the last 100 years patterns.

So one can say with great confidence that there would be no growth beyond what is already happening."

Idiot, growth beyond now and a COMPLETE STOP FOR ALL ETERNITY are not the same thing. There will NEVER be a time when SOMEONE isnt creating SOMETHING. With or without government granted monopoly protections.
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JEDIDIAH, 4 May 2010 @ 2:16pm

Let the Bogosity Commence...
> no they are suggesting that the government should help to
> protect their property in the same way they protect yours.

Except no one is talking about property.

The only thing we're talking about here is an artificial monopoly on distribution intended to foster creativity.
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bshock, 4 May 2010 @ 2:22pm

I'm not surprised
First rule of greed: the more you have, the more you want.

Second rule of greed: the more you want, the less you consider the consequences of what you want.
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Nastybutler77 (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 2:25pm

Re: Who Is 50 Cent?
People who live under rocks shouldn't throw glass houses.
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Nastybutler77 (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 2:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Once again 'Tards...InfringementTheft
Oh I think we all get your point. But you failed to get mine so I'll try and simplify it to a level you might understand: You are wrong.
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Karl (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 2:40pm

Re: Re:
if the movie companies withdraw from enough markets, they will stop making content. then good luck trading blank discs and empty torrent files.

Yeah, 'cause if Hollywood, the networks, and the Big Four don't make music or movies, then nobody will.

Right.

Do yourself a favor and look at the history of underground music. Started by people outside the music industry, which grew into something more vibrant and innovative than the industry ever was. And what happened when mainstream rock was tanking in the early 90's? Oh, right - they mined the underground for talent, and were only able to save themselves by co-opting people like Nirvana and Sonic Youth. And that was when they still had a monopoly on communication.

Or how the major studios took a Batman franchise that was a total failure under studio directors, and was only able to revive it by giving it to someone who made indie films.

People have been making art for centuries without any sort of legal monopoly on it. And that art is better. The only thing the monopolists have ever had is their monopoly, and once that's gone, they will have nothing to offer.

They never offered creativity, that's for sure.
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Karl (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 2:45pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Once again 'Tards...InfringementTheft
I think you misunderstand his point: copyright is theft from the public. I think that's what he meant anyway.
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Karl (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 3:02pm

Re:
you have absolutely NO DATA to suggest that box office revenues WOULD NOT increase if all sharing was stopped.

I've only researched music, not movies. But in that case, all of the data suggests that music revenues would decrease if filesharing was stopped:

A study released this week by Jupiter Research reports that about 34 percent of veteran file swappers say they are spending more on music than they did before they started downloading files.
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1023-898813.html

Digital music research firm The Leading Question found that they spent four and a half times more on paid-for music downloads than average fans.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4718249.stm

A newly study commissioned by Industry Canada, which includes some of the most extensive surveying to date of the Canadian population on music purchasing habits, finds what many have long suspected (though CRIA has denied) - there is a positive correlation between peer-to-peer downloading and CD purchasing.
http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/2347/125/

Researchers monitored the music download habits of 1,900 web users age 15 and above. Over time, the study found that users who downloaded music illegally from P2P file-sharing sites like BitTorrent ultimately made ten times as many legit music purchases than the law abiding users.
http://venturebeat.com/2009/04/21/study-finds-file-sharers-buy-ten-times-more-music/

Like I said, I don't study movies. But the fact that the most-pirated movies also make more money seems to suggest that it's true here as well.

On the other hand, I'd like you to find a study that shows filesharing hurts sales. I haven't found one yet - at least, not one that isn't produced by people with an economic stake in copyright expansion.

Not that it really matters. Even if filesharing did hurt sales, it's not going away. If your business can't survive that, maybe you should change jobs.

(That's the general "you," not you-Lux-in-particular.)
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RST101 (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 3:06pm

Andrew D Todd that was a sucker punch right there my friend.

Bravo;-))
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RST101 (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 3:10pm

Copyright saved cavemen too
Cavemen wouldn't have been able to draw create art out of stone if there hadn't been copyright would they?
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Jose_X, 4 May 2010 @ 4:25pm

Re:
"Piracy" helps get people exposed to the work and "hooked". Afterward, the monopolist wants to charge, the higher the better. 50 Cent might fit into this picture.

Those that don't like copyright or who choose licenses like any of the CC licenses simply adhere to a different business model, one that may very well bring in less revenue (at least in most cases) but enables society more and doesn't attack the rights of others.

[Note that artists are themselves consumers and also have much more material to work with when we all take a permissive approach to copyright. For most artists, a CC world is better as you won't be competing against the huge marketing arm of monopolists and you will have access to a lot more at much lower costs. As for the cream of the crop, these will also have access to more material and be able to be a participating artist on many more works, but they will likely make less money overall (especially if they are used to making millions yearly). Actually, if a million people want to see you, you might make a lot of money (millions USD), but generally there will be a lot more competition.]
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Nastybutler77 (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 4:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Once again 'Tards...InfringementTheft
You're right. My bad. I made the assumption that it was TAM with bad syntax, and didn't realize the AC actually meant that copyright is literally stealing, instead of copyright infringement is stealing. Whoops. I guess I'm the asshole...
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Hephaestus (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 4:47pm

Re: Re:
"Yeah, what a f*cking fantastic idea, remove the only legal means that people have of obtaining products."

These people are afraid of loosing control. In the case of spain they already have. It is not because of piracy it is because of their own actions. They have pushed for laws in every country, spain included, that are to their advantage from a profit perspective. They have created complex contractual obligations to increase profits. They have done everything to not adapt to the online world in order to maintain profits. They have a windowing system that is profit motivated.

What they have created is an old style water republic that is complex, inflexible, corrupt, and incapable of change. Systems like this undergo catastrophic failures at the end of their lives. The barbarians that will bring this system down are, them not serving their customers needs and wants, the total failure to understand they are a service industry, the deals they made with the other kings of the media industry, in a word themselves.

And you are right it is a failure of their own creation.
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Hephaestus (profile), 4 May 2010 @ 4:54pm

Re: Re: Who Is 50 Cent?
"Long Tailed" cats actually shouldnt take up residence under rocking chairs ...
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Anonymous Coward, 4 May 2010 @ 6:32pm

Re: Re: Re:
Now prove God doesn't exist!
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Darryl, 5 May 2010 @ 3:53am

revinue is up !!!
Mabey that is due to the ever increasing population of the planet !!!. along with the increasing of standards of living that make box office figures go up.

The argument is that without file sharing (stealing), they box office figures would be much higher. that is clear, lost of people wait to download it rather than go to the flicks.

there is also a huge confustion between quality and quantity, sure a billion backyard boys could produce lots of music, and mabey even some second rate movies.

The at what quality ?

Who is going to pay for the studio musos', the studio, the engineers, the graphics artists, Rent, food, wages, production, manufacturing and promotion and distribution ?

It's not just about artists, many people are required to create something of value, something people actually want and desire.

And just because you want and desire something gives you no right to steal it...

and yes, copying is theft, that argument that you are not taking anything physical from the creator is just plain wrong..

If you download something, you want that thing, or you would not download it ... Right..

Therefore if you were not able to download it, and you still wanted it, you would have to pay for it... Right..

If you would have had to pay for it, but you get it for free instead, you take away a sale from the creator..

Thats theft... it's just that simple, mabey someone here should speak to a lawyer, someone who actually knows about the law, and has some idea on how the economy works...

that would be refreshing indeed...
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AC, 5 May 2010 @ 5:43am

Re: revinue is up !!!
"Who is going to pay for the studio musos', the studio, the engineers, the graphics artists, Rent, food, wages, production, manufacturing and promotion and distribution ?

It's not just about artists, many people are required to create something of value, something people actually want and desire.

And just because you want and desire something gives you no right to steal it...

and yes, copying is theft, that argument that you are not taking anything physical from the creator is just plain wrong..

If you download something, you want that thing, or you would not download it ... Right..

Therefore if you were not able to download it, and you still wanted it, you would have to pay for it... Right..

If you would have had to pay for it, but you get it for free instead, you take away a sale from the creator..

Thats theft... it's just that simple, mabey someone here should speak to a lawyer, someone who actually knows about the law, and has some idea on how the economy works...

that would be refreshing indeed..."

Ignorant Mis-informed Shitbag Much?
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Darryl, 5 May 2010 @ 6:55am

AC are you refering to yourself ?
I guess you are, because resorting to personal attacks is all you have left mabey ?

I notice that you keep away from the actual issues, and the fact that we all have to live by the existing laws and statues, as much as you dont like living by the laws that we all agree too, no matter if you like them or not, man up and enter the real world, and mabey you will see the error of your ways, or at least work out you're flogging a dead horse. Especially when there is little or no decent arguments to support the wild claims that come from this site.

(but it does provide some amusement thought).
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Doug B (profile), 5 May 2010 @ 6:59am

I don't download movies online
nor will I ever step foot in a theater again, even if I couldn't download movies online. So no amount of laws will make me turn my money over to the MPAA.

If I want a movie, I buy a used copy of it.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 May 2010 @ 10:25am

Re: Re:
It's possible, though, perhaps unlikely -- seeing as prior to file sharing existing, revenues were significantly lower (ah, details).

Inflation. Imax. 3D. Higher ticket prices in general. (ah, details).

The industry is not being destroyed. More movies are being made and more money is being made. So, what point are you making exactly?

More youtube movies are being made, sure. More studio movies? No. More money being made? Only if you ignore inflation. More tickets being sold? No.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 May 2010 @ 10:46am

Re: Re: Re:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000136/

Johhny Depp has 15 movies in development. Is that the average? 5 in production.

Seems to me that quite a lot of studio movies are being made.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 May 2010 @ 10:54am

Re: AC are you refering to yourself ?
Rosa Parks: LAWBREAKER!
The Underground Railroad: LAWBREAKER!
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Nastybutler77 (profile), 5 May 2010 @ 11:01am

Re: AC are you refering to yourself ?
"Mabey" AC didn't feel like wasting a great chunk of his time in responding to an obvious troll who is spewing shite at an unbelievable rate. Not one thing you said made a lick of sense, and everything you said was false.

"Mabey" you sould learn to spell "maybe" if you're going to use that word so often.

"Mabey" you come across as a complete idiot. Meow.
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Karl (profile), 5 May 2010 @ 4:11pm

Re: revinue is up !!!
Ha, I'll bite. What the hell, I have nothing better to do today.

the increasing of standards of living that make box office figures go up.

Box office revenues have increased steadily over the past decade in the U.S. alone. If you think that we have a better standard of living now than we did ten years ago, you're crazy.

that is clear, lost of people wait to download it rather than go to the flicks.

People also wait to rent movies rather than go to the flicks. I guess that Jack Valenti was right, and VCR's should be illegal. Oh, and people who download movies will never, ever step foot in a theater, right?

there is also a huge confustion between quality and quantity, sure a billion backyard boys could produce lots of music, and mabey even some second rate movies.

This is ironic, seeing as every single musical genre was started by those "billion backyard boys." Soul, rock, death metal, punk, rap, grunge - none of those were supported by major labels until they became too big to ignore.

You've got a huge confusion between quality and cost. By your logic, Transformers 2 is a far better film than The Hurt Locker, and Primer was the worst movie ever made.

Who is going to pay for the studio musos', the studio, the engineers, the graphics artists, Rent, food, wages, production, manufacturing and promotion and distribution ?

Since the movie industry is doing better by the second, I guess the same people that paid them before. In the music industry, it'll be the musicians themselves, same as it always was.

Besides, jobs lost to the digital age are usually not due to piracy. I used to work in a print shop, but not any more. Was it due to people "stealing" content? No, it's because it's cheaper and faster to email plans and specs to subcontractors than it is to print up paper copies and FedEx them across the state. The company I worked for couldn't adapt, and now they're gone. That's economics for you.

and yes, copying is theft, that argument that you are not taking anything physical from the creator is just plain wrong..

On the one hand, we have Supreme Court justices, Congressmen, and the author of copyright law who all say you are wrong. On the other hand, we have... your opinion. Good luck with that.

Therefore if you were not able to download it, and you still wanted it, you would have to pay for it...

Or I would just do without it. Or I would download it, like it, and pay for things I couldn't download. Or I would pay for a physical copy, even if I did download it.

All independent studies I've seen say that downloaders buy more music. I have never seen a single reliable study that says that keeping people from downloading will increase sales.

You seem to think that if filesharing was wiped out, suddenly all those evil pirates would have rushed into HMV, with teary eyes and open wallets... Right..

mabey someone here should speak to a lawyer, someone who actually knows about the law, and has some idea on how the economy works...

Have you ever thought about taking your own advice? If you want, I can give you some phone numbers.
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Casper, 5 May 2010 @ 5:22pm

50 cent
Most musicians hav shit for brains anyway. They ought to be lucky they're not paying heavily to upload the crappy music they make to the net so people can download it.

Thank god the founding fathers weren't musicians.
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king, 19 Jun 2010 @ 1:31am

badakav
yera pu
neeku movies toorentlo donload cheste yenty bay....
avi pettevadi madda kuduv
ma chulli pattukuni veladutaru yenduku ra
sale ga
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chintu, 19 Jun 2010 @ 1:33am

pukaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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chintu, 19 Jun 2010 @ 1:38am

orey na kodaka site needena ite yenty ra goppa
u must support piracy............. adimanesi
valla madda kudustav yenduku bay.........lavadagaaaaaaaaa.....
musukuni solution pampu
how to download recent piracy movies from torrent otherwise. i ll fuck u
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chintu, 19 Jun 2010 @ 1:47am

orey na kodaka site needena ite yenty ra goppa
u must support piracy............. adimanesi
valla madda kudustav yenduku bay.........lavadagaaaaaaaaa.....
musukuni solution pampu
how to download recent piracy movies from torrent otherwise. i ll fuck u
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Reno419Rockstar, 13 Aug 2010 @ 12:13pm

Re: Re: revinue is up !!!
A guy on a bus said this: "My 2¢ - I have all kinds of movies. DVDs & VHS tapes that I paid for. I have all kinds of CDs & tapes, that I paid for. Ever since I was a teen, every Friday I splurged. Buying CDs, movies, & going to the theatre. Now that I'm an adult, it's part of my budget. Entertainment is a bill for me just like groceries. If I can get a better deal on a product somewhere else, I will do it(within reason). Do I buy music like I use to, HELL NO. Do I download music, HELL YEAH. Free is a better deal. Click of a button vs. gas plus $10-$15 for CD. The same goes for movies. I don't even like dealing with douches in the movies on opening day. When I can wait 2 weeks for the R5 to come out. Then, watch on my 60 inch at home. Honestly, the last movie I seen in a theater was Terminator Salvation. "
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KK, 7 Sep 2010 @ 1:03am

Re: Once again 'Tards...InfringementTheft
It is the same really, by making an exact copy you are STEALING an idea, so in a way Stealing and Copying are some what the same
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new, 8 Sep 2010 @ 7:12am

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