Being An Independent Consultant Means Playing Two Roles: Freelancer and Bill Collector

Is Yahoo's CEO Really In A Position To Tell Google What It Needs To Do?

from the i-get-paid-for-interestingness dept

Fri, Apr 30th 2010 8:57am — Mike Masnick

I have to admit, I thought it was pretty amusing to see this headline in the BBC:

Yahoo chief Carol Bartz sees trouble for Google.

What else is she supposed to say? Of course she's going to slag the company that totally destroyed Yahoo at its own game, but the real question is why would anyone listen? Yahoo isn't exactly in the position of being able to say what Google should be doing, given that every single move that Yahoo has tried against Google has failed -- sometimes miserably. Bartz's comments get more amusing the further the article goes on:

"Google is going to have a problem because Google is only known for search..."

Well, I guess she should know. While she won't admit it, people still tend to think of Yahoo as search as well. And Yahoo spent so much time trying to diversify that if they don't think about Yahoo as search these days... they just think about Yahoo as being a confused jumble of sites that don't do much. In the meantime, despite her claims, it does appear that Google has expanded well beyond search. AdSense (which is about other content sites) makes them lots of money. Pretty much everyone I know uses Gmail, Google Calendar and Google Maps rather than the Yahoo equivalents. I'm trying to think of what other areas Yahoo has expanded into that have been successful for the company.

But the funniest statement of all:

"Google has to grow a company the size of Yahoo every year to be interesting."

I don't think that anyone judges Google based on how "interesting" they are. Is that the metric they use at Yahoo? Does that explain the $47 million she apparently made last year? Because she made Yahoo so interesting? Well, I guess it should be admitted that Yahoo is the company that is trying (and so far, failing) to patent "interestingness," so perhaps she's just urging Google to be interesting for the sake of a future patent fight? In the meantime, I would assume that, at Google, they judge the company based on how much money it makes -- and on that front, it appears to be cleaning Yahoo's clock on a pretty regular basis.

As for "growing a company the size of Yahoo every year," that becomes easier and easier as Yahoo gets smaller and smaller.

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.

While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.

–The Techdirt Team

Filed Under: carol bartz, competition, interesting
Companies: google, yahoo

50 Comments

If you liked this post, you may also be interested in...

Reader Comments

Subscribe: RSS

View by: Time | Thread

Jesse, 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:08am

Yahoo finance is pretty useful.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous, 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:11am

I was very tempted to find her email address and send a message consisting of the words "U MAD". Then I thought nah, spam filters would catch it. Then I thought wait, this is Yahoo, what spam filters?

Anyone know her personal email?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PaulT (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:16am

"Google is going to have a problem because Google is only known for search..."

"Pretty much everyone I know uses Gmail, Google Calendar and Google Maps rather than the Yahoo equivalents."

Yeah, I think you nailed it - there's a definite disconnect between her statements and a lot of peoples' experiences. I *think* I still have a Yahoo Mail account, but I've not logged into it for close to a year so who knows? Other than that, I can't remember the last time I intentionally visited Yahoo (i.e. went to the site specifically rather than by following a link to a story).

Meanwhile, I use Google Docs, Reader, Calendar and GMail daily, and most people I know love Maps and Street View (and to a lesser extent Earth). None of these are indispensable and I could abandon Google as quickly as I abandoned search providers like Yahoo if I find something more useful. I haven't found that yet.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:17am

Well apparently everyone has forgotten about yahoo answers, which is by far the greatest collection of information by the best minds in their fields.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
awd, 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:19am

I find Bartz to be quite annoying, tbh. She took a once-legendary internet company and turned it into nothing more than dust. To be fair, perhaps she was just at the wrong place at the wrong time, though any decisions I've seen her make were less than brilliant. She also has the bad habit of putting her foot in it.

Pretending she knows Google's business better than Google is funny, actually. They're known for their search (that's not exclusively web search), but all their cloud services are also catching on more quickly than she'd care to admit. And let's not forget Android!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Todd, 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:21am

yahoo vs google
I have quit using Yahoo. There are way to many banner ads and scrolling things. I find that quite annoying. Google has simple screens and has everything I need.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Yakko Warner, 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:23am

Re:
Good call. I love Yahoo Answers. I see their stuff linked to on FailBlog all the time.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Designerfx (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:23am

Re:
yeah, actually I hear that even from fiance people. I guess yahoo is more accurate for specific things or something?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:27am

Re:
Make sure to send it from your GMAIL account :)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PaulT (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:35am

Re:
I weep for humanity every time I see that damned site. It has, however, supplied numerous memes and hilarious moments of astounding stupidity so maybe it's not so bad...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
milrtime83 (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:36am

Re:
that Android thing is becoming quite popular as well.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Free Capitalist (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:37am

Profit Averse Culture
Regarding the search business she says,

"It is only half our business; it's 99.9% of their business. They've got to find other things to do.

Translation: 50% of yahoo makes (made) money after acquiring Overture in 2003. The other 50% spends money developing emoticons.

It's pretty much Jerry's fault, with his chronic hasbeenitis clouding upper management with a perverse sense of corporate "culture" (perverse for corporations) that is best described as cool before profitable.

That being said, Mike, why are you beating down the beaten for whimpering while lying on the ground? Shouldn't Googlites have an unshakable sense of pride at this point?

Or, deep down, are you thinking, like many investors, that there just a slight possibility Google is in the process of over-extending themselves just as Yahoo did?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
anonymous, 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:40am

Re: yahoo vs google
I am with you Todd!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Zechmann, 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:43am

Love your responses to Bartz's claims. Laid out plain and simple. I use to be a big fan of Yahoo (just cause they were the underdog). Now that I've got my own site, I realize how terrible Yahoo is at search, even compared to Bing :/
[ link to this | view in thread ]
jasonstuff, 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:43am

Thank You!
When I saw the Headline on BBC I didn't even want to click on it in fear I would support it. Who does she think she is? Is she lost in a dream world.

Google is coming out with out-of-the-box user friendly tools that make people's lives easier and more efficient. Everyone I know uses Google, Gmail, Maps, Chrome... and with stuff like Android, GVoice, Wave and other incredible products it just makes me wonder what she is drinking by even thinking about being so arrogant. She will regret it I think.

Who uses Yahoo for much of anything? If I have a Yahoo Mail it's for junk. For those who mentioned Yahoo Answers, I bet you get there by searching in Google first (laugh).

Not to even bring up YouTube. I know Google bought it but still it's Google's and how many people use that every day!! Yahoo is dieing and not even sure why they are around.

Google isn't Yahoo! Google is in another league! I am so thankful that you wrote an article titled exactly what I was thinking when I saw the headline this morning. I'm guess most will ignore and laugh at her comment.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
jasonstuff, 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:46am

Re:
You should check out Google Finance. I do stocks and trading and Yahoo sucks in comparison. I've tried several different kinds but Google Finance is simple, fast and easy
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Yahoo for Loser, 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:48am

uuh, is she b*tching or is she simply talking "yahhoo"
Google does Business.
Yahoo does Business of Spam.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Bias Cop, 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:54am

bias > Google
"Pretty much everyone I know uses Gmail, Google Calendar and Google Maps rather than the Yahoo equivalents. " Then every single one of them is insecure and has been rooted.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Alan Gerow (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:54am

Re:
You're right, everyone has forgotten about it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Nate, 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:54am

If only...
"It is only half our business; it's 99.9% of their business. They've got to find other things to do."

Perhaps if Yahoo had focused a little more on search, their other cracker jack projects would be making them some money.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Alan Gerow (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 9:58am

"As for "growing a company the size of Yahoo every year," that becomes easier and easier as Yahoo gets smaller and smaller."

Ouch.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Alan Gerow (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 10:05am

Re: Re:
And I hear they have this web browser called Chrome that a couple people are using, and are developing a similarly named OS for disposable netbooks.

They may even own a video site that some people use called YouTube or something. But I haven't heard much about that site in a while. Do people still use it?

My phone has Google written across the back of it for some reason. I don't know why, maybe my phone is made of silly putty and someone put it to the computer screen.

Google really needs to do more than just have a single search page. They're never going to be bigger than Yahoo at this rate.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Apr 2010 @ 10:09am

Re: Re:
Wait, there's a Google finance? Well, I guess there goes the last thing that Yahoo was useful for. I've got to say, if Google made toilet paper, it wouldn't be fancy, or quilted, or anything like that, but it would work better than everyone else's, and probably be free...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Alan Gerow (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 10:12am

Re: Profit Averse Culture
The difference is Yahoo did all these things and tried to pull it all together and force users into using Yahoo's services. I stopped using Yahoo after the one of the home page redesigns in the early '00s when it took forever to load about 300 different bits of information just so I could search for "funny pictures of cats".

Google's search page is clean for search. And you can navigate between services. They don't try to mash everything in front of you at once to show they're trying to be everything to everyone (unless you use iGoogle, but then it's 100% customizable for how clean or cluttered you want it). Google knows you're there for search to go somewhere else ... Yahoo tried to get you to stay instead.

Google may be overextending, and some of their experiments fail, some fail miserably, but they don't sacrifice their core features to help their failing experiments as much as Yahoo did.

I haven't visited Yahoo in about 6-8 years, so maybe they've changed, but I will ever remember Yahoo as the one stop shop to get everything and need nothing. Whereas Google's home page is nearly as clean and easy to use as the day I did my first search.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Alan Gerow (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 10:13am

Re: Re: Re:
With butt-targeted ads. :)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Alan Gerow (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 10:16am

Re: If only...
Maybe it's because Google took all of their search money, so they HAD to find money elsewhere. I think the other half of their business income comes from selling their souls.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Chris, 30 Apr 2010 @ 10:20am

Great quote
This is one of the funniest things I've ever read:
As for "growing a company the size of Yahoo every year," that becomes easier and easier as Yahoo gets smaller and smaller.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Chris, 30 Apr 2010 @ 10:22am

Re:
I'm pretty sure you're joking here. Yahoo answers contains lots of answers by people who have no idea.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Free Capitalist (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 10:28am

Re: Re: Profit Averse Culture
Google may be overextending, and some of their experiments fail, some fail miserably, but they don't sacrifice their core features to help their failing experiments as much as Yahoo did.

Agreed Google has taken better care of their core business, search advertising, than Yahoo ever did.

However, even with the greater resources Google has to work with, the fiscal impact of over-extension (i.e. throwing good money after the bad) cannot be ignored in the long run.

My entry for analogy Friday: Even the largest, best-equipped army in the world can over-extend itself, get cut off from its supplies, flanked and laid to waste.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Really?, 30 Apr 2010 @ 11:09am

Really? -_-
Who uses yahoo, really? I love google and their array of apps they have. From Picasa, google earth, goole voice, wave, gmail, YOUTUBE, news, docs...i mean really. yahoo is dead to me.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jimr (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 11:28am

Google is an advertising company who happens to develop and use the internet to deliver its paid ads.

Similar to how Nike shoes is really a advertising company who happens to make shoes as well.

Yahoo did not strike me as an advertiser but as 'just' a search portal.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Apr 2010 @ 11:31am

first let me say that I am a google user but you all should really use your google perfect browser and check your facts... other than search yahoo beats google in every category where there is a comparable service...

This is just mail...
Microsoft webmail properties: 256.2 million users
Yahoo: 254.6 million users
Google: 91.6 million users
AOL webmail properties: 48.9 million users
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ryan, 30 Apr 2010 @ 11:56am

Re: Re: Re: Profit Averse Culture
The analogy doesn't really follow; Google doesn't really have to maintain a their core business--search and advertising--so much as tweak them here and there to stay updated. Search is basically an automated function with an algorithm and a bunch of servers, and Google made its name on the simplicity of the search page.

Since then, just about all of Google's endeavors have been toward encouraging people to spend more time on the internet and integrate browsing activity with their search and advertising. They have a good vision, excellent execution, and everything they do ties back into their core business model. The link you provided mainly pegged Google as a possible bull because they can't possibly sustain their insane growth forever, with one small sentence suggesting they may ignore their core features in overextending. But like I said, everything they do ties back into that business model, and I think Google has proven to thus far be a company that is forward-thinking, consumer-oriented, and innovative. The more they extend and encourage users to simply use Google, the stronger they get.

The bigger problems I see would be either a significant shift in the advertising market or a new innovator. But neither one seems likely to happen anytime soon, especially given the comparatively closed and short-sighted approaches of Microsoft, Yahoo, and even Apple.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Hephaestus (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 12:26pm

Dude when did you get funny ?
"As for "growing a company the size of Yahoo every year," that becomes easier and easier as Yahoo gets smaller and smaller."

one word ... BURN!!!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Free Capitalist (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 12:41pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Profit Averse Culture
Search is basically an automated function with an algorithm and a bunch of servers, and Google made its name on the simplicity of the search page.

True but search does not equal search advertising (key words, and the bidding system for clients). Search is a free service, and search advertising is where they make their money. Two very different beasts, and it is search advertising that generates their revenue. Search brings the eyes, auctioning keywords sells those eyes through.

Search advertising takes quite a bit of maintenance, much more so than search. It is no easy algorithm. Google does do a pretty good job at keeping this up, and this core piece of their business is doing just fine.

Investors could care less how many hits a service might get if those hits are not monetized (things work a little differently now than they did in the 90's).

All I'm saying is Google would do well to ignore Bartz assessment and prudently engage other enterprises, if at all.

Google's perceived weakness right now is the number of acquired business units in their corporate portfolio which have negative profit margins.

Google is not weak at this point in time. Do not get me wrong. But also, it would not do well for Google to ignore Econ 101 either.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 12:57pm

Re: Re:
That's why it's called "Yahoo Answers" not "Yahoo Correct Answers".

Eh, for the most part I don't think it's the answers that are the problem. The questions are the ones that end up on FailBlog.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PaulT (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 1:02pm

Re:
I wonder how many of those are active accounts as opposed to free accounts that were opened up in 1998 and then promptly forgotten about (GMail being the youngest service by a long, long way)?

I wonder how many of those accounts are used exclusively for spamming (I can't remember the last time a legit account tried adding me on MSN messenger - a service I only use because some people don't want to move - and I get at least 3 requests a week)?

I wonder what the cost-to-profit ratio is on each of those accounts (i.e. it doesn't matter that Yahoo has 3 times as many webmail users if they're only 1/5 as profitable as each GMail account)?

There are many more factors than number of users in this equation, especially when at least one company mentioned has been on a downward slide for the last decade while Google has been on the rise.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
McBeese, 30 Apr 2010 @ 1:13pm

Re:
I used to find Yahoo! finance pretty useful, but then I stumbled across the free Bloomberg app on the iPhone. Tons of info.

Bloomberg has recently released a free app for the iPad and it's fantastic. I can't imagine going back to Yahoo.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
weneedhelp (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 1:15pm

Ya who?
Ya who?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
nasch (profile), 30 Apr 2010 @ 3:52pm

Re: bias > Google
Then every single one of them is insecure and has been rooted.

That article doesn't say what you claim it says. Not even close. It's so far off I wonder if you linked to the wrong article.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Apr 2010 @ 6:05pm

Yahoo has lots of experience in making mistakes. Google should listen.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
McBeese, 30 Apr 2010 @ 10:10pm

Carol Bartz is a misfit
Carol Bartz comes across to me as a crass and rude person that is entirely the wrong image for a company like Yahoo!, which was founded as the 'fun' web company. I'm sure she can kick ass and drive cost reduction, but that is only part of what Yahoo! needs. That's like throwing ballast out of the plane after the engines have failed. It delays but doesn't change the end result.

Yahoo! needs a visionary to set direction. Bartz is not a visionary, she's an operations type. The problem is, none of the superior visionaries I've ever met would even consider working for a troll like Carol Bartz. You think an up-and-coming Steve Jobs or Bill Gates is going to put up with being cussed at by a technical incompetent like Bartz? Nuh-uh, ain't going to happen.

So Carol, you don't like it when armchair commenters pontificate on what yahoo needs to do. Too bad. Sorry. The bottom line is that you need to hire a CEO who can lead the company while you streamline it. That would be the most competent move you could make.

By the way, on the day when I'm reading about Bartz' views of Google's problems, the Yahoo iPad app was crashing to the point of being unusable. Nice commercial, Carol.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
shailesh, 1 May 2010 @ 3:26am

If google or any other mail server marks U MAD as spam,stop using that server.
False positives are more horrible than some spam.
No one wants important mail to go Junk folder.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Carol, 1 May 2010 @ 6:19pm

Re:
cbartz@gmail.com
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Carol Bartz, 1 May 2010 @ 6:23pm

I have advice for Microsoft: stop sucking so much, you couldn't even buy a company the size of Yahoo. Suckers!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mike, 3 May 2010 @ 2:36pm

Re:
@PaulT:

"Pretty much everyone I know uses Gmail". So you have 10 friends that use Gmail? Do you realize that Yahoo mail crushes Gmail in terms of usage?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mike, 3 May 2010 @ 2:40pm

Re: yahoo vs google
Google is a search engine not a portal, Yahoo is a portal with a search engine. You seem to be confusing the two. If you want to search on Yahoo without all the clutter, just go to search.yahoo.com. How hard is that?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mike, 3 May 2010 @ 2:44pm

Re: Re: Profit Averse Culture
you last visited yahoo 6-8 years ago and you're commenting on this article? What an idiot. Everything on the web was different 6-8 years ago!!

I hate people that act like they know what they're talking about and they don't even know what these companies really do to make money.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 19 May 2010 @ 7:00am

first let me say that I am a google user but you all should really use your google perfect browser and check your facts... other than search yahoo beats google in every category where there is a comparable service...

This is just mail...
Microsoft webmail properties: 256.2 million users
Yahoo: 254.6 million users
Google: 91.6 million users
AOL webmail properties: 48.9 million users

lol, lol, really, not comparable guy, I probably have 10 yahoo email addys myself, I use them as throw away for site registration etc..., I give my real addy, my own website email or my gmail to real people I know or business use, everything else is for junk that I don't check and don't care about

yeah for real, I find yahoo earth to be better, oh wait nvm, maybe yahoo maps? no, no don't think so

so what does yahoo do better?? that's right cram as much useless crap on a web page as humanly possible flood you with non stop spam and ads
[ link to this | view in thread ]
lrobbo (profile), 29 May 2012 @ 4:30pm

Yahoo just sucked big time, more so in 2012 than ever. I don't know a single person that uses them. Most people just think google is the internet . . .
[ link to this | view in thread ]