Instead Of Bad Drivers, What If Speed Cameras 'Caught' Good Drivers Instead?

from the carrot-or-the-stick dept

Fri, Jun 18th 2010 6:34pm — Dennis Yang

We've written at length here about the multitude of problems with speed cameras. What if, instead of focusing on punishing speeders, the speed cameras were used to reward good behavior? Drivers who obey the speed limit are automatically entered into a lottery and then notified by mail if they've won. So, you might pick up your mail one day with a letter from local law enforcement and a check for good driving behavior, rather than a fine for bad driving behavior. This is somewhat reminiscent of the idea from a few years ago where police would pull over good drivers and "reward" them with free coffee coupons -- but avoids the whole "pull over" part, which certainly upset some drivers.

The idea is that the jackpot could come from the fines that were paid from speeders -- so not only do you get rewarded, you get rewarded from the pockets of worse drivers. This method may also serve to make a speeding ticket feel even more painful than just a fine alone. After all, a $500 ticket definitely stings, but a $500 ticket PLUS a little note that had you not been speeding, you could have won $10,000 instead? Ouch, that hurts a lot more.

The idea was the winning entry to VW's "The Fun Theory" competition, where applicants were tasked to design ways to change people's behavior through fun. This is a brilliantly viral campaign that showcases the fact that advertising is content, and if you make engaging content, people will beat a path to your door to watch it. The "piano stairs" entry alone has amassed over 12 million views.

Of course, rewarding good drivers with cash awards does not help governments rake in quite as much in revenue, but speed cameras are supposed to be about safety and not money, right?

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Filed Under: driving, gaming, good driving, incentives, lottery, rewards, speed cameras

61 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2010 @ 6:41pm

Reminds me of an idea to have an insurance company that rewards ratepayers for having black-boxes in their cars with lower monthly payments. Some people might be willing to trade their personal car-driving privacy for a much lower payment.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2010 @ 6:57pm

what if santa claus was a squeege kid for the rest of the year? what is your car would send you a shock and call your mother every time you went over the speed limit? what if you could redefine scarce and infinite to suit your own needs? what is you could ignore 2nd and 3rd years of your mba and still graduate? all these mysteries and more right here on techdirt.
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DevConcepts (profile), 18 Jun 2010 @ 7:09pm

Already being done
I regularly win these things all the time. They use email. All I have to do is give them my information and they send me the winnings right to my bank account. That is now empty.... hhhmmmm
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2010 @ 7:18pm

Re:
Still trolling along, I see . . . .
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2010 @ 7:22pm

What if speed limits weren't set artificially low in order to drive up ticket revenue?

That would be fun.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2010 @ 7:36pm

Re: Re:
sort of easy to pick on mike on a friday, he usually puts up fluffy pieces of crap as stories. he hasnt learned yet that the internet runs 7 days a week.
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R.H. (profile), 18 Jun 2010 @ 7:47pm

Re:
Oddly enough, there are pieces of hardware that, when installed, will call (or text) a phone if you go over the speed limit. I think that the shock could be figured out if you tried.
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McCrea, 18 Jun 2010 @ 7:48pm

Asinine idea, in whole. Speeding is the first rule to break.

Saying, even good drivers speed, and they are arguably supposed to. (Artificially reduced speed limits, of course.)

Maybe change the winners to those who drive while sober and not texting.
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Greg, 18 Jun 2010 @ 7:54pm

Revenue
The problem with this approach is obvious. Law Enforcement Agencies use tickets as revenue. If they remove the cameras or went to a lottery system they would lose a huge amount of revenue. Remember, no matter what they tell you, they DO have quotas.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2010 @ 7:55pm

Re: Re: Re:
You're running on 7 day week? pfff...What a loser. I upgraded to the 9 day week ages ago. It's a dual core (whatever that means).
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McCrea, 18 Jun 2010 @ 7:57pm

Re: asininity
or even, how about rewarding those that walk rather than drive? Save the gulf, heh.
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ashwinmudigonda (profile), 18 Jun 2010 @ 8:20pm

I must say that the Pakistani people have other pressing issues to investigate such as, say, the death of Benazir Bhutto.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2010 @ 8:25pm

then sometimes even frequent speeders would win the lottery for safe driving.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2010 @ 8:47pm

VW
I want to know who the punch-happy VW adman is so I can cold-cock the Ahole.
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RF, 18 Jun 2010 @ 11:41pm

dumb
dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Jun 2010 @ 1:09am

Re:
The cameras catch everyone that passes them.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Jun 2010 @ 2:02am

I think such is an abuse of government. Instead, the speed limits should be more reasonable. Then, upon having more reasonable speed limits, I wouldn't mind punishing those who speed.
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bob, 19 Jun 2010 @ 2:37am

Not Gona Be Done
Anything that takes traffic fine monies from the general coffers to give to "good Drivers" of a locality will never happen. At the states level the "Vig" is put into the general fund and would also not be used.
Just like monies from lotteries were to be used for education, that find there way into the general fund, no added ticket premium cost would stay outside the general fund for very long.
Never ever trust a politician with money.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Jun 2010 @ 3:45am

speed and red light camera have NOTHING to do with safety and EVERYTHING to do with Revenue.

They are not interested in giving away money, and giving away the money they got from ticket revenue . . .

HA! Good Luck!
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Jun 2010 @ 4:45am

How About We Back Off the Bg Brother Crap Altogether
Speed cameras and fines for speeding are largely BS since cops, judges and politicians (and their families) can get out traffic penalties. That's right if you're in the club you're safe. Drive as fast as you want. Police even have medalions for their plates that say "don't event pull me over". The rest of us have to pay the fines and higher insurance whenever the local municipality decides to set up some selective enforcement (AKA fundraiser).

To make matters worse the posted speed limits are ridiculously under what even cautious drivers are comfortable with. And this is the LIMIT mind you. That means that you're allowed to drive at any slower speed up to and including the posted number. Get some friends and do 55 MPH side by side on a major highway. You'll piss off a lot of people. This unrealistic situation will continue to exist as long as the group of people who make and enforce these laws are exempt from them.
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Headbhang (profile), 19 Jun 2010 @ 5:14am

One-two carrot-stick combo
I like it, although I'm a bit afraid it would encourage people to take the sport of just driving along cameras nicely just for the sake of increasing their chances...
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Hoeppner, 19 Jun 2010 @ 6:25am

Re: Already being done
The banks have never believed me when I said that I would be getting 15 Million soon, a buddy just needed some cash to get it for me.
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Javarod (profile), 19 Jun 2010 @ 6:53am

Interesting idea, not sure how practical, but certainly can't make it worse. While i've issues with the execution, i certainly have no problems with the existence of speed cameras, and perhaps this will have a better effect on driver speed and behavior.
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Pixelation, 19 Jun 2010 @ 10:05am

Filler piece
I think you were just looking for a filler piece on this one. Sorry, this one is an epic fail. Keep trying.
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Mr. Ambiguous, 19 Jun 2010 @ 11:43am

Re: How About We Back Off the Bg Brother Crap Altogether
"Get some friends and do 55 MPH side by side on a major highway. You'll piss off a lot of people."

I seem to remember a video of this from a few years back. A few friends with video cameras got on a highway, lined up, and did 55 mph. They caused the entire highway behind them to back up and become a mess. At one point in the video, someone close to the front of the whole mess sped into the shoulder to pass them and almost nailed someone who had pulled off into the shoulder. I wish I could find that video.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Jun 2010 @ 1:27pm

Re: Re: Re:
We're still all waiting for you to start dolling out that amazing collection of wisdom you have... and show everyone the right way to do a blog.

Waiting...

Waiting...
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TW Burger (profile), 19 Jun 2010 @ 2:41pm

This is already being done
Most trucking companies have been rewarding the good drivers for several years now. On-board GPS and speed monitoring systems constantly record where and what is going on when a truck is on the road. If a driver does not speed she/he will get a bonus. Drivers that speed (even once) do not. Drivers that consistently speed are fired.

The idea works well. I would love a system that monitored my driving and gave me a large refund.

"Of course, rewarding good drivers with cash awards does not help governments rake in quite as much in revenue, but speed cameras are supposed to be about safety and not money, right?"

Well, with over 30,000 killed per year in the USA and crashes costing $230 billion (2000 estimate) not to mention lost wages and taxes from wages and spending the government would probably have more revenues by having good behavior incentives. This could probably go even further. I was always ticked off as a working class kid that really rotten some juvenile delinquents were sent, on tax payers' money, to these fantastic remote Rocky Mountain camps with and given a horse to ride and care for while spending a month on the high trails. I, as a well behaved kid, spent summer riding my bike around the local lumber mill while my dad worked his ass off in a factory earning the tax dollars to send the other kid to camp.

There's a lot of good argument in setting up a reward system for good behavior while providing no reward for bad. It's exactly how I used to handle guard dogs. Never punish or hit a dog, but always reward correct behavior. It works.
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TW Burger (profile), 19 Jun 2010 @ 2:45pm

Re: Filler piece
Can we conclude that perhaps your driving record is EPIC FAIL?
Do you have a bumper sticker reading: "PWNED by Traffic Cops"?
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TW Burger (profile), 19 Jun 2010 @ 2:55pm

Re: This is already being done
I just wanted to add that I realize that not every kid can be sent to a high end camp on tax money and the idea of sending troubled teens to a remote location and giving them responsibility is an effective behavior modification therapy that can be far cheaper than paying for incarceration.

Also, sorry about the grammatical errors.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Jun 2010 @ 3:33pm

this will never work, the people that make the speed cameras make money off of ticket fines, it's a scam. It's nothing to do with making roads safer or enforcing traffic laws. It's all about exploiting money from decent citizens. Police never reward good behavior, they are out to punish people and trying to exploit their authority.
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Pixelation, 19 Jun 2010 @ 5:14pm

Re: Re: Filler piece
"Can we conclude that perhaps your driving record is EPIC FAIL?"

One ticket in the last ten years, so no.

How about an article on something that might happen.
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Haywood (profile), 19 Jun 2010 @ 7:07pm

I'm going to differ with a point there
"The idea is that the jackpot could come from the fines that were paid from speeders -- so not only do you get rewarded, you get rewarded from the pockets of worse drivers."

The idea that someone breaking a law based on an arbitrary number is somehow a worse driver than someone who obeys that law sets poorly with me. If speed limits were set by engineers rather than politicians, I might have some respect. If those laws were about traffic safety as opposed to making money, I might have some respect.
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TW Burger (profile), 19 Jun 2010 @ 9:16pm

Re: Re: Re: Filler piece
Come on. Have some respect for Mike. Your being an arm chair editor. Write your own blog and come up with material everyday.

This might happen. I was on a TV show discussing future development of the web. The interview before me was with a guy who was describing something called a "blog". It was Dave Winer (Dotto's Data Cafe Sunday, May 19, 2002). He thought it was the next big thing (it was). I thought it sounded silly (You fool!). Lesson: Dismiss ideas at your own peril.

I do get a 50% discount on my insurance but I admit it would be more effective to have more active and short term incentives for good behavior.

Mine's zero in 25 years and three in my life.
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TW Burger (profile), 19 Jun 2010 @ 9:18pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Filler piece
Sorry, I just realized Dennis Yang wrote the article. So respect Dennis.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Jun 2010 @ 9:54pm

Another speed camera ticket, Dennis?
No it won't work. The reason being due to the law of secondary consequences.

The role of Government is to enforce, not incent you for following the law.

You say that the way the program would work is if someone real smart (frankly smarter than you, Dennis) figured out how to pass a referendum that required that a percentage of revenue collected by red light cameras was put into a type of lottery system for good drivers.

Seems like a good idea on the surface, but let's dig a little deeper. First, if this occurred, it would undoubtedly raise privacy issues. How would you like it if the Government took efforts to capture every road you took to get sloshed on the weekend? If it's collected by the Government, it's open to a FOIA request.

Collection of such data opens itself up to abuse. As the lottery novelty wears off, it's safe to assume that the lottery concept as you (or that really smarter person than you) originally envisioned, won't stay in it's original form for more a few years; maybe ten years tops. Eventually the program will cost too much, and there will be a need to find a way to monetize it. At this point, maybe some super smart 28 year old with an MBA wearing a cape at an insurance company will come up with a way to identify drivers that are on the road after 10:00 are less safe drivers, and the insurance company should increase their premiums; but again using this data which would be available under FOIA.

Next, consider other potential for abuse of the collected data. We read that when Sprint made available device location information, some 6,000,000 requests for information were made by law enforcement agencies within the first few months of it's launch. A system that collects this type of data would perhaps be abused in one form or another.

Indeed, such a system in time would allow an officer to pull you over and and ask why you aren't taking your normal route home.

It's a bad idea, Dennis. Mike, can you please keep morons like Dennis to the 'anonymous coward' peanut gallery crowd? I have more fun when he whines and deletes my comments.

Otherwise, in the words of Keith Olbermann, Check, Please.
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WammerJammer (profile), 20 Jun 2010 @ 6:05am

cover it up
I make a practice of putting mud on my license plates. Let them work for their cash. Remember you also have the right to see the photograph.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Jun 2010 @ 4:35pm

Fines should be based on income
Speeding tickets and traffic fines should be based on the amount of income you earn, like is done in Germany. If you think your all special with you high end job and high end sports car, driving like an idiot. Then you can afford the 2000 dollar fine.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Jun 2010 @ 5:00pm

I recall a story from the Book of Heroic Failures (or one of it's sequels) that was similar to this. I think it was a sub-continent nation where driving skills were lacking. Unfortunately, a large number of drivers who the police attempted to pull over to reward for safe driving instead tried to evade the police, by speeding or driving through red lights, and the police then had to fine them instead.
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Dohn Joe, 20 Jun 2010 @ 9:57pm

Change Government Behaviour Too!
Hey - if we also take this idea a step further and stipulate that money taken from tickets can ONLY be used to pay good drivers then we also modify Government behaviour and put a stop to dirty little tricks like reduced Yellow light timing!
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Darryl, 20 Jun 2010 @ 10:09pm

no incentives needed to be honest or law abiding
So your trying to create an incentive for NOT breaking the law, as opposed to a disincentive for breaking the law.

Most people DO NOT NEED an incentive for not breaking the law, they do not need to change of a prize for being good, or not breaking the law.

Now there are far more people who obey the laws than there are who disobey them.

That means its far easier to find those who break the law, (the small number) than it is to find the majority that do not break the law.

What if you do not break a law, and you dont win any money (are not bribed to be good), you might say screw this, im getting nowhere being good. I might as well break the law!

So I guess, you would rather see police resources, your tax money, going into the police spending all their time finding the people who DID NOT BREAK THE LAW..

I guess that would be somewhat easier :) except that that is MOST of the population.

we have had speed cameras and red light camera here in Australia for years and years, no problems they are just what they are. Its really very very simple, dont break the law and you can live your entire life and not ever have to worry about police technology, or the police doing their job, which is catching the bad guys..

Not chasing after the good guys, to reward them for doing what everyone is expected to do anyway..

that is obey the law. is it THAT hard ?
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Darryl, 20 Jun 2010 @ 10:42pm

Police are payed by US to catch bad guys, our reward is a stable society, and not lawlessness.
Just possibly, may be governments and states use the tax payers money to employ a police force at great expense TO FIND THE LAW BREAKERS, and uphold the law.

thats why taxpayers agree to pay taxes for the police, and for the government to create laws and rules that allow people to get along as a society.

Most people (except Mike) would think that is their job, we pay them to keep badies from killing us, stealing from us, or hurting us in some way that is against the law.

Police are expensive, and most tax payers are honest and law abiding, most of those people will not be happy to see the police not doing the job they are paid to do, that is keep social order.

And as most of the law abiders will never see any prizes for being good, how can you make that system fair, or unbiased. Will we end up with "good courts", where two people try to prove how good they are to get their reward.

Rewarding people for doing the right thing, and for being law abiding citizens, will only achieve bad feelings from the rest of society that are honest, law abiding but do not receive any prize.

As for the law breakers, they will love it, all the police spending their time and resources in finding people NOT breaking the law (much easier to do BTW).

And not employing those resources in finding the people who are breaking the law.

I can imagine it, police man pulls over good driver to give a prize, while 10 speeding cars zoom by.

Also, here in Australia, (a well advanced country) we had a good driver reward system, heavily promoted, but a total failure. It just does not work.

What they found, is that police are very good at being police, at upholding the law, and catching the bad guys.

We pay them alot of our money do be police, we dont pay them to run a 'good lotto'. They are not trained, skilled, or willing to do that job. They joined the police force to catch badies, and to shoot people.

Not be Mr Nice Guy, but to do their job. (not another job).

Doing their job does not mean them putting on the uniform and doing some other job, (like prize giver), they find criminals, thats hard to do.

They do not find honest people, thats easy, as most are honest.

I dont need to be rewarded for doing the right thing, or obeying the law. Most if not all people do not need rewarding over the rewards we allready have.

That is not living in a lawless society, that is my reward for being honest, and obeying the law, that is everyones reward and prize.

Its a system that has worked throughout history, these other schemes have been tried and failed in the past. And its clear (from above) why it fails.
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BBT, 21 Jun 2010 @ 6:07am

If you find you need to create monetary incentives for the public to obey a given law, that law probably shouldn't exist in the first place.
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Michael, 21 Jun 2010 @ 7:11am

Re: Re: asininity
I think at this point, "save the gulf" means using as much oil as we can before they can dump any more into the ocean.
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cKarlGo, 21 Jun 2010 @ 8:06am

Sorry, but I honestly find this to be a horrifying idea. Why on Earth would anyone suggest, even in jest, rewarding people for doing something that they should simply be doing anyway as an honest person? Honesty, decency and morality should be their own reward.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Jun 2010 @ 9:15am

A local radio station used to hand out prizes to 'good' drivers from their prize patrol cruiser. I knew a lot of people who would drive like maniacs all over town trying to find the prize patrol cruiser to show what good drivers they were.
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Nastybutler77 (profile), 21 Jun 2010 @ 11:42am

Re:
"Sorry, but I honestly find this to be a horrifying idea. Why on Earth would anyone suggest, even in jest, rewarding people for doing something that they should simply be doing anyway as an honest person? Honesty, decency and morality should be their own reward."

Why is it you equate obeying an arbitratily set speed limit with honesty, decency and morality? I consider myself an honest, decent and moral person, but I usually drive between 5 and 10 mph over the posted speed limit. You know why? Because the speed limit A) is set artificially low to encourage speeding so police departments can generate more revenue, and B) has to be applied to everyone from 80 year old geriactrics behind the wheel of a 40 ft motorhome to semi trucks with double tanker trailers.

I'm fully capable of driving at a higher speed than the posted speed limit in a safe manner, and have done so for nearly 20 years. An 80 year old in a motorhome probably isn't. When I'm 80 and behind the wheel of a 900 sq ft behemoth, I'll stay within the speed limit.

So please spare me your moral indignation. If you want to obey the letter of every law, have at it. But don't be so quick to judge those of us who obey the spirit of the law.

Thank you.
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Bill Young, 21 Jun 2010 @ 12:08pm

Funny!
I'm all for poking fun and the stupid jerks who risk getting innocent people killed though their reckless driving habits,but let's not lose sight of the seriousness of this issue. Traffic laws exist to protect the public safety and any mechanism available to better provide deterrence to that recklessness needs to be exploited. Only when driver KNOW they will be caught will they finally change their habits.
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rjohnson (profile), 21 Jun 2010 @ 12:11pm

Good idea
I like this idea alot. The cameras can be used as both positive and negative reinforcement. I hope that some cities pick up on this idea and many people will stop complaining about camera enforcement.
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Mary Glass, 21 Jun 2010 @ 1:31pm

hmm
that makes no sense though, rules are supposed to be followed, laws are supposed to be followed. this is an assumption of society so this sarcastic supposedly well pointed argumenmt makes no sense...
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branden884 (profile), 21 Jun 2010 @ 1:59pm

We unfortunately live in a day and age where distracted and aggressive driving is rampant. I don't think a reward program would have much influence on the very drivers who are prone to red light running and speeding. Nobody likes to get a ticket but placing red-light enforcement cameras at intersections that have increased danger for collisions has been shown in many communities to be a valuable pro-safety tool.
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James65, 21 Jun 2010 @ 2:23pm

Isn't it incentive enough to drive safely and not endanger the rest of the people on the road? It would be best if we could convince all people to just drive safely without reward, instead of having to offer them a "carrot" for good behavior.
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fred smith, 21 Jun 2010 @ 9:37pm

red light camers
this is a great idea.
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bArlington, 22 Jun 2010 @ 5:17am

How Does This Solve the Budget Deficit??
I dont get it! How does this solve government's budget deficits!?!?!
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James, 22 Jun 2010 @ 10:42am

Pretty funny actually! Not sure how I would feel if I got pulled over only to get a free coffee coupon....not sure the free coffee is worth "that feeling" you get when being pulled over.

I do however disagree that this is all about money. If a piece of equipment is put in place to catch bad drivers and hopefully teach them a lesson by penalizing them, isn't that creating a safer environment? That is if people actually learn their lesson.
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Beth, 22 Jun 2010 @ 10:51am

Awesome!
Anything we can do to make people drive a little safer sounds like a good idea in my book!
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whatsupisdown (profile), 22 Jun 2010 @ 3:08pm

this sounds like a bunch of ladies sitting around and patting eachother on the back for being a nice person. this is just silly
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lillygirl, 22 Jun 2010 @ 6:35pm

uuummm
laws are made to be followed. If you break the law you should have to pay the fine.
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Melanie, 22 Jun 2010 @ 9:40pm

Okay...
While I agree that rewarding good behavior is important (especially with small children) there are also consequences for breaking the rules and one doesn't learn from bad decisions until he/she is held accountable.
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Tracy (profile), 24 Jun 2010 @ 11:51am

Speed Cameras
The speed cameras are put into place for a reason. They are there to protect people's safety and they are reducing the amount of accidents happening. They have been a large impact in many cities. It is making people more aware of the road rather then speeding and chatting on a cell phone while driving.
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trenches (profile), 24 Jun 2010 @ 4:16pm

Do them both
lets do them both. Use the cameras to catch the offenders and distribute the money back to the folks that actually pay attention behind the wheel and don't speed or run lights.
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Matt, 2 Jan 2011 @ 2:23pm

Not a bad idea but...
I think that is a very good idea. Rewarding people who are good drivers (who let's face it, basicaly get s**t on and have to deal with all the bad ones) However, it would be pretty hard to impliment. Instead, I believe we need to raise the standards and requirements for obtaining a dirvers license. Then, we can impliment a system where the speed limit is based not only on the road, but the conditions of the road and the skill of the driver. (But I admit that would also be hard to impliment) But I think it would be more worth while. That way, we keep idiots off the street (by increasing standards) and we also reward good driving by allowing good drivers to drive a little bit faster :-)
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