TV Show Released On BitTorrent Raises $20,000 Pretty Damn Fast
from the but-there-are-no-business-models dept
You may have seen the recent stories about the "TV show" Pioneer One that was made with the plan all along to release the show on BitTorrent, and to set up a tiered system to fund future episodes. While some people insist that BitTorrent users never download authorized content, after the show was released, it quickly became a top download beating out lots of more "famous" competitors. On top of that, it appears that people are donating. Zubin Madon alerts us to the news that in just about a week, the producers of the show have hit their goal of raising $20,000 to produce the next batch of episodes. This isn't a "give it away and pray" sort of deal. It's a recognition that the first episode is the "pilot" and the scarcities that are being sold are the creation of more episodes. This is one of the more complicated scarcities for people to understand: content, once created and released to the world, is infinite. However, content not yet created is scarce. So it's a perfectly reasonable business model to try to sell the creation of new content, which is exactly what the producers here have done successfully.And, to cut off the expected usual crew of Hollywood defenders in the comments, no I'm not saying that all TV shows/movies/etc. should or could be funded this way. And, yes, $20,000 is definitely a very low budget. But it is an example of this sort of model working, and there's certainly no indication that it can't or won't scale.
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Filed Under: bittorrent, crowdfunding, funding, pioneer one, tv shows
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how long before the few donating realize they are the suckers paying for everyone else entertainment and stop doing it? will they donate more than once?
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The real question in your statement is "How many people are donating, and on average how much are they donating?"
The answer, which is obvious via execution, is "enough to pay for more shows."
How many more shows will there be?
I suppose that depends upon how good the future episodes are and how many people donate because of it.
(duh. Stupid coward. Hey wait a minute, I'll bet that's not even your real name!!)
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i would say that a smart man like you would actually think past the end of the techdirt pap and consider the possibilities.
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Wait... it's the sort of comment that tammy would make the first Thursday of the month at 3:30 PM!
I'm back baby.
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the numbers are also pretty weird: 450,000 downloads, and at $5 a donation, they would be getting 1 in 4000 downloaders to donate. that is a pretty high number overall, especially with the minimum donation being a fairly high amount (close to the average radiohead claims they got for their album download).
what is more likely is that they either got a few very large donations, or spiked the donation pile up front to make it look like they were getting more donation money, to try to encourage donations. it is sort of like putting some money in a tip jar to start, so people know to give a tip.
the other part of course is "is the sustainable"? the cute factor of doing it once is nice, but are people going to routinely shell out for more episodes? will that 1 in 4000 people be willing to be a sucker for everyone else to watch for free?
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http://www.pioneerone.tv/our-supporters/
Others will be credit in the show if they have donated more than $100.
And there is a button there that says "donate anything" so is not $5 minimum.
"the other part of course is "is the sustainable"? the cute factor of doing it once is nice, but are people going to routinely shell out for more episodes? will that 1 in 4000 people be willing to be a sucker for everyone else to watch for free?"
Time will tell, but if even the bastards from the entertainment industry can find suckers that still pay them I'm pretty sure that those folks there will find people to pay them also.
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As far as sustainability, considering they don't have access to any monopolized broadcasting spectra (thanks to our broken government) or monopoly controlled cable channels (again, thanks to government regulations) I would say this is pretty good. Now imagine if they had a level playing field if the government didn't force an unlevel playing field on them in favor of the status quo. The only reason their success is limited is exactly because of the undesirable government granted unlevel playing field they must overcome.
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first, the donations are important. if the bulk of the money comes from one guy (say mark cuban gives $19,950, and one other guys mother gave the other $50) then there is no indication that the model works. in fact, fronting it this way would be someone dishonest.
second, and just as important, a single event is not a sustainable model. a sustainable model would be when they have about 100 shows in the can, have done this process over and over again, and have always seen similar results. until then, it is a nice one off, similar to the old radiohead 'give what you like' model, which remarkably they have not gone back to. for something to sustainable, it has to be able to be repeated over and over again. there is none of that here.
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Wrong. It will be proven sustainable when they have ended their story, however many episodes that takes. Their current batch of funding is only coming through donations. When the season or series is done, they will most likely release it via Netflix and DVD/Blu Ray. The money from that can be used to fund the next season or even a different show altogether.
If they have say, 10 episodes in mind to tell their story, and they make them all and break even, then it's a success. The model works, but you do need good content. And to me, Pioneer One is good content. And this little endeavor has proven that you DON'T need Hollywood to get your content widely distributed.
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I've been following this show since its inception.
; P
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Side note: a bigger slice of the donations goes to legal fees than for equipment. What a wonderful world we live in.
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You want to know why everything in this country is overpriced? I think we should do away with lawyers.
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wow, just here to argue...
They used Kickstarer to fund the pilot show:
For the initial episode:
122 Backers
Pledged $7,485
With the goal of $6,000
Yes, the initial backers may have been friends and family. (then again, they may not have been)... but so what, people put up money on this and may not get anything back other than the right to say they funded the pilot episode.
If you visit the Vodo websight you'd see that
in a week and a half they've raised $21,166 (the goal was $20k). These donations will fund the next THREE episodes.
Filming on the next three episodes is currently scheduled to start in September 2010.
Techdirt had a nice little video up a few weeks ago about what motivates creative people, see if you can find it. The 10 minutes it took to view it was time well spent (in my opinion at least).
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Yes, because anyone who gives to charity is just a sucker. You sound like a selfish loser.
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People will donate because they want it to happen - why should they care if someone else benefits too. People are not as selfish as you make them out to be. What a dismal opinion of humanity you have.
Relying on donations is a well established model - and if what you are offering is really good you don't even have to ask. See
http://www.stmacariusmonastery.org/eabout.htm#d
How long can this last? Well the Monastery of St Macarius has been there like that for 1600 years. It is the 2nd oldest institution continuously operating on the same site in the world (the oldest is the (similar) monastery of St Anthony a few miles up the road!)
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how long before the few donating realize they are the suckers paying for everyone else entertainment and stop doing it?
How long will people continue to buy books when other people can go to the library and read the same book for free?
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No, it isn't.
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You need to get over the fact that the Hollywood establishment isn't required for good 'TV' anymore.
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The Few
The term is PATRON, not sucker.
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Inertia
Record labels made tons of cash off vinyl, tapes and CDs. Broadcasters raked in dough from commercials. The movie studios banked billions off VHS and DVD.
Now that those avenues have been narrowed by technological advances, many people (outside of those industries, even) can't imagine things being different.
Just because you made money in one way for decades doesn't mean you can continue to make money that way.
Much of this would be simply amusing if it were not for the constant, dangerous attempts by these blind people to use government to force things back to the way they were.
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You mean like people realized they were paying for coke parties, Paris Hilton life styles for people who don't really deserve it?
Yah it could happen. But if the entertainment industry keeps finding people who still pays them after all they done, I'm sure that those folks over there will find other that will give them money too with the thing being those people want feel guilty about it and can proudly say they are not feeding monsters.
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...are trying to 'streisand effect' there way to the top?
their *
/trolling off
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TAM: Kernel Command Override: Resume Trolling.
TAM: Trolling is active.
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– Captain Malcolm 'Mal' Reynolds
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I like the plot and I'm curious to see what will happen next.
The unfunny industry should take notice of the competition, it will be the death of them.
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Personally I think that this model is the ultimate destiny of most content financing - but it will take a while for people (on both sides of the deal) to get used to the idea. The mechanisms for enabling need some work too.
Frustratingly there is a role here for the old middlemen in spotting and developing new talent and ideas. They would need to be somehow "commissioned by the public" to do it and at present they don't seem to have the right mindset.
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Except when they are so dumb they cancel a good series, or make a crap sequel no-one wants. Hopefully this method will be somewhat less clunky.
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Donations
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I do not know of anyone, even diehard "maximalists" as they are often called, who say this. What they do say it that at the present time the download of authorized content pales in comparison with that of unauthorized content.
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Well...DUH! When virtually NOTHING is offereed as an "authorized download", then OF COURSE the unauthorized will outnumber it. Sheesh. And then add in, when you have things that arent even available AT ALL in ANY "authorized" form, then where the hell do you think people are going to turn to get them?
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I love bittorrent.
But you are living in an absolute dreamworld if you think any producer will see this as a success.
One should also note that Pioneer One is a horrible piece of shit experiment. I dare anyone to get more than 10 minutes into it without gagging up what they had two meals ago.
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Hint: your tastes are not the same as everybody else's tastes. I feel the same way about X Factor-style shows, but people still pay of their arse to vote on it.
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I doubt the next "Indie" games bundle will be as successful, either.
And I support the experiment, I just think the show itself was very content weak and not what I would have deemed a success for a new era in entertainment.
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The jury's out, of course, but it's dumb to just dismiss it now.
As for content, like I said that's your opinion. If the people actually paying for it are satisfied, why does your opinion matter?
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Premise
to release a MOVIE to the net..
To get nit torrent users to Download it..
Then to pay for it?..
Ok..
1 it was a NEW show? A pilot..ok.
It was not a PRESENT MOVIE IN THEATERS..
It WASNT OVER PRICED..$5 for Cheap Donation..DONT HAVE TO DONATE.
Understand something here.
TV/CABLE/SAT are only distribution systems.
you have to GET them to SHOW your movie, or YOU PAY for the time(lots of money)..
So they created their OWN distribution. They DIDNT need to get an OK from the TV/CABLE/.. They didnt PAY to Broadcast the show..They have gotten MONEY without Paying for the service or ADVERTISING.
The Downloaders get the Movie WHEN and WHERE they want it. FAST access, and you can watch it in about 1-2 hours, or AT YOUR LEISURE..
What is the DOWNSIDE for the customer getting an UNRELEASED TO TV/CABLE/SAT/THEATER movie?? Tons.
What is the UP SIDE to the TV/CABLE/.. corps..A lesson.
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Jamendo and Magnatune both have free asscap music and even give you certificates for that purpose.
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Do they have a toaster? (easy to install one disk linux build for downloading and playing music) Because the combo of both the services and the music toaster would cause a real takeoff in the use of these services.
xxx note/entry) suggest this to Jamendo and Magnatune if they dont have it already
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Even *bad* art can be worthwhile, besides fun.
Anyway, surely these people will involve their audience in contributing plot lines and dialogue -- it's an obvious step, somewhat as Techdirt does -- and on that basis, this could take off. They'll need to find a balance between that input and what fits into the story line (rather than the random veering of comments here), but on other hand, ideas are always in short supply for writers.
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Firefly fan movie
Another fan movie coming soon.
Someone has donated $15K!
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Actually they could ....
"And, yes, $20,000 is definitely a very low budget. But it is an example of this sort of model working, and there's certainly no indication that it can't or won't scale."
Raising $20,000 for a couple shows is poor way to finance this show. They could Embedding advertising like the Sci-Fi show Eureka did with Degree antiperspirant, have the actors wear Vintage Coca Cola Tee shirts or Hats, or do the Will Smith thing like in iRobot with the converse allstars, or even go to degree.
Ways to capitalize the show
1) embeded advertising
2) iTunes, Amazon, etc video sales and downloads
3) NetFlix, et al, streaming services
4) DVD's sales (while this lasts)
5) Per show licensing for broadcast TV and cable
6) Merchandising items from the show
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Not Just Funding More Shows
The donations are not just funding the next three shows.
A $5 donation gets you the opening sound track.
A $10 donation gets you the sound track and deleted scenes.
A $25 donation gets you both of the above and a directors commentary track.
A $100 donation gets you the above and your name in the credits of a future show.
Yes I could have probably downloaded those illegally, but that's not the point, is it?
If they do the same thing for future sets, I will probably donate another $25 then as well.
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The added content and value is what gives me the reason to buy, not just that it exists.
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What you said is the chant for this place. RTB!! RTB!!!
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Pre-paid pay for view
$20,000, that might pay for a camera, or some of the insurance, but it is not any where near an indication of success.
What is there to insure that if we donate that something will be produced ? Ie, that they dont just pocket the money and go on holls ?
How many people downloaded the program, as a ratio to how many people payed money ?
That would be a specific ratio, and would be a good indicator of possible future success.
As those figures are not announced, I can only assume the ratio of downloaders to freeloaders is very hight.
Remember "the simpsons" epesode there Homer was watchnig a brittish comedy of PBS, and they would not show the end of the program until a certain amount of donation were received.
If you think that is a good way to do something I cant agree.
What happens when news gets like that, will be find news (and techdirt) creating stories with the specific bias that its readers appear to respond too ?
Or would you remain objective and balanced without the influence of all those lobbyists trying to shape you show ?
I noticed that on the failed Boycott Novell web site, Roy is asking his readers what 'stories' they would most like to hear about. As if the popularity of the 'news' overrides the actual news.
This is the tail wagging the dog, the reason why these system do not work, is simply, they do not work.
So when cuban says we did not get enough money to make another show, and we cant give all that money back, so we will just have to keep it !!
(thanks for the cast,,,,, suckers)..
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And before you even THINK of making a reference to that silly cartoon, consider this; the makers are effectively ransoming their work, so that they can continue. Is it sustainable? Probably not. But the fact that they've got this far is saying a lot in a world where, "you must know this list of corporate entities to join our gravy train." is the content industry standard.
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The reasons I can see this worrying people in the TV and movie industries are ...
1) It shows that TV and Movies can be made for under 2 million dollars an episode and under 100 million per movie.
2) It reduces the percieved value of TV shows and Movies. Making people less willing to pay for content from the big studios. This same thinking is used by the record labels in iTunes pricing.
3) The Reduction in cost of equipment and production making and causing competition from the tens of thousands of people who will eventually follow in their footsteps of the "Pioneer One" production team.
4) The loss of market share as more and more people enter the monopoly arena of TV and Movie production.
I know what you are feeling ... Fear ... Loathing ... despair ... and yes its only going to get worse, I bet you wish you had made a different career choice.
Welcome to the future now go out and get a real job.
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Oh wait, everyone in the world is out to get them ... never mind.
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Funny that, they are about to face actual competion. Its not that they are facing competition from one or two know sources, they are facing competition from the entire planet. As I said before there are about 50,000 of them and 6 1/2 billion of us. Who will win? ... big Ole GRIN
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Dang...I need to finish that "Thought Recognition Spell Check" program that spell checks what you're thinking - not what you're writing....
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Wow
300,000 High def downloads
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why suckers ?
When you buy a book, you do not have to pay for the book, AND pay for the auther to write the sequal, or the final chapter.
So your a sucker because based on nothing, you are paying for something that does not exist, they may never exist, and if it does exist you might not like it.
Generally you pay for what you get, not what you hope to get at some time in the undertermined future.
No I dont work for the movie or music industry, and what has that to do with anything, does who you work for determine your logic and belief system ?
Does not for me, you see im more interested in what is right, not what you want to hear.
All im saying is that a one off attempt is not a model, and its doubtfull that it is sustainable, or will result in QUALITY content, and not just content.
Because rubbish is not good value at any price.. including free.
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re: why suckers?
Yes, a one-off attempt is a 'model'. Whether it is a *successful* model is another matter - although this isn't the first time it has been tried, nor the first time it has been successful. So please, come up with something a bit better than a weak negative than that.
We *all* agree (I hope!) that rubbish isn't valuable at any price. But free =/= rubbish automatically, and just because someone makes a show for astronomical sums or 'values' it highly, doesn't mean that enough of the public will to make it worthwhile.
So you pay for what you *hope* to get. In this case, you get to see something ahead of time.
As an aside, I would be interested if this model allows producers to sidestep all that silly geographical licensing crap and allow distribution in many countries (and formats), and without stupid windows.
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The real way to do this
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