French Politicians Backing Away From Three Strikes As They Realize They Need To Get Re-elected At Some Point

from the political-realities dept

Wed, Jul 14th 2010 8:42am — Mike Masnick

France was the first country to propose a "three strikes" law, pushed through carefully by President Sarkozy (whose wife is a famous singer). What was originally thought to have been a slamdunk proposal for Sarkozy's ruling party, turned out to be a lot more difficult than expected. First, everyone was surprised when France's National Assembly rejected Sarkozy's plan. However, a month or so later, it was narrowly approved. It hit another stumbling block when the French Constitutional Council ruled it unconstitutional, but Sarkozy tweaked it and got it passed again. It was supposed to go into effect at the beginning of this year, but hit yet another snag when there were concerns over whether or not it violated data privacy laws. Last month, that hurdle was finally cleared.

So now there's nothing standing between Hadopi and kicking people off the internet, right? In fact, reports suggested the Hadopia agency (which, amusingly was caught using an infringing font for its logo -- strike one!) was ready to start sending out 50,000 notices a day.

But wait... As a bunch of you are sending in, apparently a bunch of members of Sarkozy's party are now rethinking their support of Hadopi, noting that the plan might not be very effective, and they are worrying that it may harm just casual file sharers. In fact, a leading member of the party, Jean-Francois Cope admits he's "evolved" on the issue, and notes that the law has a "clumsy choice" in terms of the wording.

Reading between the lines a bit here, it appears that these politicians have been hearing from upset constituents about Hadopi, and are starting to realize that they're going to need to get re-elected at some point. That's the kind of thing that can "evolve" your thinking on concepts like kicking your constituents off the internet, because they wanted to hear some music.

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Filed Under: france, hadopi, politicians, three strikes

44 Comments

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lavi d (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 9:05am

Happy Bastille Day!

¡Viva la France!
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Hephaestus (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 9:08am

EU Human rights rules ....
"That's the kind of thing that can "evolve" your thinking on concepts like kicking your constituents off the internet, because they wanted to hear some music."

I wonder if the politicians in the US are going to look at the french before they sign ACTA into law.

Also the law violates the "CHARTER OF FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS OF THE EUROPEAN UNION" and multiple other EU documents.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2010 @ 9:10am

welcome to the modern version of "bread and circuses". appeal to the masses so the masses dont realize that things are turning to crap.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2010 @ 9:16am

Re:
Nice to see that TAM never evolves.
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Hephaestus (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 9:19am

"Reading between the lines a bit here, it appears that these politicians have been hearing from upset constituents about Hadopi, and are starting to realize that they're going to need to get re-elected at some point."

I have to TAM you on this one Mike ...

you state that the politicians are running scared because constituents are complaining about hadopi and three strikes. no where do you provide proof of this. it is an assumption.
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TtfnJohn (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 9:26am

Re:
It's a distinct probability though. Unlike the United States and more like Canada on occasion the masses (who TAM seems to dislike so much) do rise up and cause mass unemployment of formerly employed politicians. For example the Tories went from a majority to a mere 2 seats in the House of Commons in the 1992 federal election something that nearly happened to the Liberals (who aren't liberal in the American sense) 15 years later. (They were still under a baker's dozen.)

There are times when the old electoral phrase "throw the bastards out" is quite literal particularly when some lunacy like a three strikes law also has other things in the background to make the masses angry.

The ballot box can be a truly wonderful thing!
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Free Capitalist (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 9:34am

Re: Happy Bastille Day!
¡Viva la France!

Muchas Gracias. Maintenant, en Francais - "Vivre la France!"
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Mike Masnick (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 9:37am

Re:
you state that the politicians are running scared because constituents are complaining about hadopi and three strikes. no where do you provide proof of this. it is an assumption.

That is true. I did hear it from the submitter of that story (who wanted to be anonymous, but who is from France, and explained it in the context of being there). The indication from them was that this was definitely part of the pre-election planning.
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mematematica (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 9:37am

In Mexico
In Mexico the parliament have been using Hadopi as an example of fine law making (without mentioning all the controversy around it) to go for a 3strikes internet law in the nation. The intention on the ruling was then withdrew due to objections from the mexican internet community. I guess our 'diputados' (MP's) have starting to realize the impact of the mouth to mouth bad/good publicity provided by the internet voters. This possible bad publicity weighed more in the withdrew than the actual arguments given to illustrate how terrible this law was.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2010 @ 9:43am

Re: Re:
so what you are saying is that the opinion of a single person leads you to draw a conclusion? do you do this often?
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Analmouse Coward, 14 Jul 2010 @ 9:49am

Re: Re: Re:
tut tut!

Didn't your parents teach you that you shouldn't troll anonymously?
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The Groove Tiger (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 10:04am

Re:
"I have to TAM you on this one Mike ...

you state that the politicians are running scared because constituents are complaining about hadopi and three strikes. no where do you provide proof of this. it is an assumption."

You forgot to add "and you call yourself a reporter?" and "selective reporting" somewhere.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 10:09am

Re: Re: Re:
so what you are saying is that the opinion of a single person leads you to draw a conclusion? do you do this often?

Nope. The explanation of an individual plus my own knowledge and experiences of the situation, leads me to make an educated hypothesis, which is clearly stated as such.
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Hephaestus (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 10:10am

Re: Re: Re:
"so what you are saying is that the opinion of a single person leads you to draw a conclusion? "

Its not the opinion of a single person, its a concensus of alot of people. The French Pirate Party is likely to gain a seat in the next election because of this law. There is an anti-Hadopi law that has also been submitted to the french government, Amendment 324, which would ban all methods of filtering. I was just calling him out on the fact that he hadn't provided any links.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2010 @ 10:22am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
so how long did you spend in france?
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2010 @ 10:56am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
How much have you worked in the music industry? Or the movie industry? Or politics?

You seem to give your opinion on things you have no personal experience with, and don't seem to have an issue doing so.

Pot meet kettle?
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Mike Masnick (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 10:58am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
so how long did you spend in france?

We have this wonderful thing called the internet. You should check it out. It lets people in other countries communicate across national boundaries.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2010 @ 11:11am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"You seem to give your opinion on things you have no personal experience with, and don't seem to have an issue doing so."

Or maybe he does and he's just trying to promote his agenda by smearing opponents. Have you noticed how the lower case coward always tries to discredit anyone and everyone who opposes him?
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2010 @ 11:39am

Re: Re: Happy Bastille Day!
You mean 'Vive la France!' :D
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Hephaestus (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 11:50am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Have you noticed how the lower case coward always tries to discredit anyone and everyone who opposes him?"

He never picks on me for some reason.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2010 @ 12:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"We have this wonderful thing called the internet." - in other words, zero. so your "knowledge and experiences" of french politics are limited to what you can read in english, right?
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Fabrice Epelboin (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 12:10pm

Re: Hephaestus
@Hephaestus
you state that the politicians are running scared because constituents are complaining about hadopi and three strikes. no where do you provide proof of this. it is an assumption.

Well, I live in France, been actively involved against the Hadopi law, and I can confirm Mike's analysis. If you understand french, you can check this post who clearly show how things have evolved these last months. Today, people like me are invited to share their views at the french national assembly and can fight lobbie inside the system in a very efficient way, with full support of the same politicians who where in favor of Hadopi a year ago
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Mike Masnick (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 12:51pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
in other words, zero. so your "knowledge and experiences" of french politics are limited to what you can read in english, right?

Um. No, actually I have spent a fair bit of time in France, including with folks in the music industry. But, why let facts get in the way.
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bob, 14 Jul 2010 @ 1:24pm

Re:
It's most likely an assumption, but then again why would politicians back peddle so quickly from one position to another if not for voter backlash?
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Yogi, 14 Jul 2010 @ 1:41pm

Memo
"This clearly demonstrates that democracy is at the heart of the file-sharing problem that Western civilization is suffering from.
As long as lawmakers are in any way beholden or even dependent on non-corporate entities such as "citizens", our civilization will be in danger."

-from internal RIAA discussions
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2010 @ 1:44pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
so why didnt you just say so to start with, rather than being a dick about it?
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2010 @ 1:45pm

Re: Memo
i repeat, bread and circuses. politicians do things for the short term need of getting elected, and not for the long term good of the people they govern. it is one of the reasons why 4 years is too short of a term for a us president, they should get 8 up front with no chance for re-election, so they can do the right thing, rather than the thing that will get them elected to a second, lame duck term.
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Julius Beezer, 14 Jul 2010 @ 2:31pm

Sarkozy already repeat infringer
Worth dragging ,a href="http://serendipity.ruwenzori.net/index.php/2009/10/08/french-presidency-makes-400-unauthorized -copies-of-dvd">this up again in the context. President Sarkozy (or at any rate his team) have already been busted twice for copyright infringement: once using music at a rally and not shelling out for the rights, and secondly, and more grossly, ripping 400 copyrighted DVDs without permission. Dangerously close to the wire...
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2010 @ 4:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Oh irony...
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2010 @ 4:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Are you:

- A Politician?
- A musician?
- A movie producer?
- An actor?
- A programmer?

Because you seem to have strong opinions on related topics. According to your logic, if you aren't any of those, you can't comment on these topics.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2010 @ 4:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
MORON!!!
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2010 @ 4:25pm

Re: Re: Memo
politicians do things for the short term

So do corporations, and corporations who support lengthy copyright extensions. Which isn't causing any problems whatsoever!
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Mike Masnick (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 4:29pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
so why didnt you just say so to start with, rather than being a dick about it?

Ha! Very funny.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2010 @ 4:56pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"so how long did you spend in france?

We have this wonderful thing called the internet. You should check it out. It lets people in other countries communicate across national boundaries."

non-answer, effectively being a dick. you wonder why people are a dick back to you, well, now you know.
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lol wow, 14 Jul 2010 @ 5:20pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You were almost bash.org worthy today, TAM.
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NAMELESS.ONE, 14 Jul 2010 @ 7:59pm

its all about physics
or more to the point newtonian physics
every action has an equal and opposite reaction

they wanted to kill p2p
they get unelected

HAHA.....STUFF THAT IN YOUR MONEY BELTS
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Hephaestus (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 8:37pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"so why didnt you just say so to start with, rather than being a dick about it?"

More than likely because sometimes its fun to feed the trolls... Big Ole GRIN
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Hephaestus (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 9:08pm

Re: Re:
"You forgot to add "and you call yourself a reporter?" and "selective reporting" somewhere."

I thought about adding something along those lines. But Mike isn't a reporter, he runs a blog that is consistantly selective in its presentation of the stories and issues he has an interest in (ie: he has an opinion about stuff he follows and doesn't change his opinion). Plus the final paragraph is consistantly the zinger, where he pulls it all together, editorializes, then pokes fun at the people or event.
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Hephaestus (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 9:09pm

Re: Re:
Read this
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Hephaestus (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 9:49pm

Re: Re: Hephaestus
"you can check this post who clearly show how things have evolved these last months."

I already know how things are evolving around the world for the laws that have been implemented to combat infringement. France (see above comment), Sweden, Spain, South Korea, the UK, etc, none of what is going on bodes well for ACTA, the DEA, or any of these laws. Italy is the only EU country this might work for in the short term due to political corruption and a media mogul. In the end the existing laws and the ones being planned for Italy will fail because of the EU courts.

Here are some suggestions of what to push for.

1) Internet access as a right that can not be removed with out a judicial order.
2) No ISP monitoring of the content, ports used, sites visited, or software used by any internet user while accessing the internet without a court order. (this serves a dual purpose, it is pure net neutrality, and it stops 3 strikes in its tracks) Think of this one as wire tap laws for the internet age.
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Hephaestus (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 9:56pm

Re: Re: Hephaestus
I forgot to mention the Irish ISP's, Canada, Mexico, and dozen other places things are not, or will not work out for the IP max types. I am waiting for the Irish ISP's to seek clarification from the courts to see if the legal agreements they have in place for 3 strikes are legal.
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Hephaestus (profile), 14 Jul 2010 @ 9:59pm

Re: its all about physics
"every action has an equal and opposite reaction

they wanted to kill p2p
they get unelected"

For once you actually made sense. ;)
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Jul 2010 @ 5:38am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Lol, nothing funnier than letting an idiot run with his wild assumptions.
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Niall (profile), 16 Jul 2010 @ 4:32am

Well, there are news articles on this point, for instance: http://www.zeropaid.com/news/89860/french-ump-members-having-second-thoughts-on-three-s trikes/ referencing a Figaro article, so no, Mike is /not/ just 'guessing'.
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