On The Arrest Of Julian Assange
from the this-is-what-we-cover? dept
To date, I had avoided all of the stories both about the allegations against Julian Assange in Sweden, as well as his arrest this morning. But people keep asking us to cover it. Frankly, I'm not sure what to say about it. Assange's former lawyer's writeup for Crikey, in which he presents a compelling, if extremely one-sided view of how Sweden appears to be "making it up as it goes along," is an interesting read but, again, it is extremely one-sided. Slate's more level-headed analysis of questions concerning consensual sex laws is also worth reading.The reason I have not covered this is, while this whole thing has obviously become political, these charges do not, officially, have anything to do with Wikileaks. Perhaps the two cannot be separated but there's a lot of FUD flying from all sides on this right now and it seems rather early to comment on all of this.
However, I think the larger point is that too many are looking to connect this issue more closely to Wikileaks than it deserves to be connected. We're interested in Wikileaks from a public policy perspective and what it means for free speech, whistleblowing and journalism in a distributed world. I have no idea what happened between Assange and those two women in Sweden and it's difficult to see how adding any commentary on the matter at this stage really adds anything to the discussion.
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Filed Under: arrest, julian assange, sweden, uk, wikileaks
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Understandable position
Bear in mind, I'm not saying one way or another if Assange is guilty of whatever or not. That should honestly be between Assange, his lawyer, Britain and Sweden.
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IT'S BECAUSE THE NEWS VOLUME GOES TO 11
I can't imagine the volume of the cable news screaming when he gets a slap-on-the-wrist sentence at most and walks free at least.
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How To: Make a Mockery of the Real Crime of Rape
What's neat though is that Sweden is conflating consensual sex with rape for political purposes. In this, Sweden makes a mockery of the very real crime of violent rape.
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Understandable, but...
True that these specific charges have to do with something 'officially" unrelated, however, the prosecutor had dismissed the charges previously, only to conveniently have them reopened by another prosecutor recently. I would say the timing of it, and the fact that so many counties want to get their hands on Assange has everything to do with Wikileaks.
While its true that Assange's sexual behavior has little to do with free speech, whistleblowing and journalism, the fact that he is being trickily held by Sweden so that other countries can get their hands on him is a direct result of the Wikileaks controversy. That is certainly of concern for those interested in protecting free speech, etc.
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Subject
Whatever the founder did with those chicks--who cares? I just thinks it's an incredible waste of tax dollars going after this guy.
Did the government controlled police officials accomplish anything? If anything it martyrized and glamorized him as well as making the fight for transpency seem even more important.
Did it quell the leaks? Nope.
Did the contents get re-pandora boxed? Nope.
Did the web site and it's numerous mirrors shut down? Nope.
Do you think it's going to stop cable leaks from happening again? Nope.
Do you think that making an example of him is going to scare others from doing the same thing? Nope.
The next time it happens, those who act on leaks will be smarter in how they go about their actions. No one will be arrested and all of the information will be in the hands of the public.
Yep. Arresting him will make a world of difference. NOT!
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The best part is yet to come
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It seems suspect to me.
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As for his safety, he certainly took a great risk by poking the Mafia Boss(es). Lots are dead for having done that on a much smaller scale and to much smaller bosses.
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http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/12/07/assange.wikileaks.court.scene/index.htm l?hpt=C1
There is little people over there apparently that don't like the guy, even celebrities are behind the man.
This will not end well for the United States.
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http://www.infowars.com/assange-set-up-by-cia-operative/
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They should free Assange too.
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/12/07/us.china.north.korea/index.html?hpt=T2
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/07/uk.wikileaks.investigation/index.html?hpt=T 1
Seriously someone miscalculated the power Mr. Assange commands around the world.
He is a hero in the eyes of the public.
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So just like Paypal and Amazon fell on terms of service (previously ignored) as some justification for dropping an unpopular customer under government pressure to find a way, the charges were used as a reason to pick him up at a time when they desperately wanted him picked up.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1336291/Wikileaks-Julian-Assanges-2-night-stands-spar k-worldwide-hunt.html
From the article it seems he merely scorned the wrong woman.
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Immediately after this post, you write about how Sweden was heavily influenced with regards to copyright by the US. The US has higher interest in the character assassination of Julian Assange. I think it is safe to assume the US is playing in on this one.
Proof would be nice, certainly...but I think most would be surprised if it were demonstrated that the US government isn't actually involved.
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Re:
Laws should be changed to make it difficult for angry women to harm others.
As a man I draw the line here, no support for people who just want revenge and are using laws that are supposed to be used against real criminals not jerks.
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What's to get here?
Rape
Rape
Rape
It reminds me of westpack widows who get knocked up and cry rape.
Google West Pack Widow.
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So I would urge people to not be so quick to see conspiracies in every corner. There are actually some other good explanations:
* an imperfect legal system regarding due process in cases of allegations of a sexual crimes.
* a prosecutor who wants to further her career
* the girls' laywer is a highly political figure with some quite radical ideas (for example he wanted Sweden to boycott a soccer world championship in Germany in order to protest against the situation of sexually exploited women there).
The reason that the prosecutor wants to hold the interrogation in Sweden is probably because she wants to have the possibility of arresting him if their suspicision of crime is strengthened by the interview. Assange's swedish lawyer Bj�rn Hurtig has however referred to a case where the Swedish High Court found that a man who lived in Dubai and was suspected of tax evation of some 17 million SEK should not be arrested in his absense since he had been free to leave Sweden at the time (just like Assange got an ok from the prosecutor to leave Sweden) and had volunteered to be part of questioning over the phone (just like Assange). The court found that an arrest would lead to unnecessary inconveniences and costs for the man.
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lets do a quick search:
http://www.interpol.int/Public/Search.asp?ct=Data&q1=SEX+CRIMES+and+sweden&Search=S earch&cboNbHitsPerPage=20
Results as off now are 2 people:
ASSANGE, JULIAN PAUL (SEX CRIMES)
and another guy for CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN, SEX CRIMES.
I assume that the other guy is a child molester.
As far as i understand the story Assange has slept with 2 women and the Condom got lost, apparently that only happens very, very rarely in a country with 9 million people...
so i somehow doubt that this is the normal procedure.
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Re: What's to get here?
This business does however, detract from the very important issues MR. Assange and Wikileaks have presented us with. No doubt this is intended.
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Cat - see the pigeons
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Worth reading on this issue
It reads in part:
The phenomena of social networking through the internet and mobile phones constrains Swedish authorities from augmenting the evidence against Assange because it would look even less credible in the face of tweets by Anna Ardin and SMS texts by Sofia Wil�n boasting of their respective conquests after the �crimes�.
and:
In the case of Ardin it is clear that she has thrown a party in Assange�s honour at her flat after the �crime� and tweeted to her followers that she is with the �the world�s coolest smartest people, it�s amazing!�. Go on the internet and see for yourself. That Ardin has sought unsuccessfully to delete these exculpatory tweets from the public record should be a matter of grave concern.
So it's not at all clear what did and didn't happen, and it's also not clear whether what did happen violates Swedish law. It's also not clear why this case has passed through the hands of three prosecutors: I would think that if they possessed both evidence and knowledge of the law, then it would have been quickly clear to them whether they should proceed or not.
One thing is clear, though: justice isn't going to happen, because there's far too much Realpolitik involved. And that's a damn shame for everyone involved.
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Re:
Apparently he has been chasing the prosecutor around for months to get this resolved - but has been constantly fobbed off.
There has been a clear policy of waiting till the right moment to arrest him.
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Re: Re: What's to get here?
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Britain's role is cursory at best...
It makes our extradition treaty with the US look positively fair and just.
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Re: Re: What's to get here?
A jerk move perhaps but a crime no.
Unless the guy moved on in the middle of the night and had sex, but if both were having it already the consent was given at the beginning of that act, she could have gone away if she didn't like it but she didn't, she stayed the course and fall asleep.
I woke up with women on my d. should I call the police and have them arrested for raping me?
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Logical Reasoning
Wow, that's the first logical statement on the issue I've heard or read.
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This is pretty likely. With Assange currently in the position of villain globally, it looks like an easy win for the prosecutor, actual guilt or not. Why not bring it back?
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trumped up
The way to figure out what's going on is to talk to people in the intelligence community. I'm sure this is a classic play in some circles.
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Re: Re: Re:
second, if we are going to open this can of worms, lets keep it real. yes women have used charges of sexual misconduct in order to exact revenge upon men when scorned and have done so for years. it happens quite frequently in fact and usually the woman is prosecuted for it when the facts actually come out...which they usually do. to suggest that its such a rare thing to happen is very disingenuous.
changing any laws to make it more difficult for people to report ANY sort of assault is not the way to handle it and does unfairly stigmatize those who are real victims of such crimes. making sure that the resulting investigation and any following trial are not mishandled by prosecutors and defense attorneys is the way to handle such an issue.
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'sex by surprise'
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assange, swedish law, etc.
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Well when I asked for you to cover this story ...
"WikiLeaks is not a website run by a lone individual but an organization. Jullian Asange spokesperson and editor-in-chief for WikiLeaks founded the web site in 2006 and serves on its advisory board. The arrest of Jullian Assange on 12-07-2010 has had little or no effect on the operation of wikileaks. Currently there are xxx mirrors .... "
Throw in some decentralized and distributed systems stuff here.
Explain how this attack on wikileaks has only spread the information further, and will multiply in the futures (ie Whac - a- Mole)
Finished with one of you zinger last lines.
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Re: Understandable, but...
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Re: Re: Re: What's to get here?
Sex without consent is a crime. It's called rape. I'm not saying that's what happened, but the definition stays the same.
Unless the guy moved on in the middle of the night and had sex, but if both were having it already the consent was given at the beginning of that act...
In many backwards-ass states in America, this is legally true. Once penetration has occurred, anything that occurs afterwards isn't rape. However, any idiot can tell you that if your partner says, 'Stop, that hurts!' or 'Stop, the condom broke!' or even just 'Stop!', that they have withdrawn consent, and to continue is rape.
...she could have gone away if she didn't like it...
Wow. Just... Wow. When are they supposed to just 'go away'? When they're asleep? When they wake up, pinned down by someone else? And even if the person in question did 'just go away', the fact remains that if the sex act started without consent or continued without consent, it was still rape.
...but she didn't, she stayed the course and fall asleep.
They didn't say that she withdrew consent by falling asleep during an act already consented to. The allegation is that he began and possibly completed the act while she was asleep.
Again, not saying that this is what happened but someone who has taken medication, or had a nightcap and gone to bed, cannot give consent.
I woke up with women on my d. should I call the police and have them arrested for raping me?
If you didn't give consent, then yes. That's what it is. Giving consent once, twice, or five thousand times isn't some sort of 'permanent' consent. Even marriage isn't permanent consent.
Your view of this situation shows that you probably haven't thought very much about rape, aside from watching some SVU. Do yourself, and any women in your life, a favor and Google the term 'rape culture'.
Or just start here.
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No such crime as "sex by surprise"
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