Does It Violate The Law To Fire Someone For Their Facebook Comments?
from the just-might... dept
Michael Scott points us to a discussion highlighting a recent National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) ruling that suggests companies cannot fire employees for things like complaining about their boss on Facebook. The NLRB apparently stated that such complaining about the boss is a "protected concerted activity" under the NLRA. It's been a long time since I was up-to-date on my labor law knowledge (even though I do have a degree in the subject), but this seems like a pretty extreme ruling. If people were fired for actually using Facebook to organize collective action, I could understand it, but it's not really clear that just bitching about your boss really qualifies. That said, it's not clear that it's particularly smart to (a) bitch about your boss on Facebook where they might see it or (b) for a company to react by firing any employee who does that. Neither move makes that much sense. The company definitely seems to be overreacting, but to stretch that to say it's a violation of the law doesn't make much sense.
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Filed Under: comments, labor law, social networks
Companies: facebook
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Re:
This lets the employee and their boss say what they want outside of work and should it come into work and affect performance or cause other issues then some form of action could be taken. If the boss or employees can't handle what another employee might say about them online maybe they shouldn't friend that person or whatever may be the case. Of course in a case like yours simply not friending someone wouldn't be an option and would have to be handled as an issue like that arose.
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Re: Re:
"[Company Name] are crap to work for. [Bosses name] is a perv - he's always groping me..."
Comments such as those above - especially when unjustified - can cause a lot of problems when made in public, especially if the person making those comments encourages others to do so as well!
I'm not saying that firing the employee is always the correct action, but on top of other misdemeanours, publicly slandering the company and / or your boss can easily be considered to be gross misconduct and earn a dismissal from the company. I'm not sure too many companies would be overly bothered by a simple "My boss is a wanker" comment!
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Re: Re: Re:
This is an attempt to CHILL FREE SPEECH (Repeat until it sinks in)! I am not going to stand for that, and neither should anyone else.
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Slippery Slope
EG. Might not be good to just post name calling crap and be like "my boss is a bastard and I hope he dies in a fire"
Should be more specific with little name calling and be more like "My boss is making me do work well above and beyond what I should be and he refuses to hire on more people. I'm being over worked"
Facts are not slanderous and as long as they don't have company secrets, well...I'm not sure how a company could fire you unless they have an agreement that lets them fire you for anything.
I know my warehouse job would let me be fired for anything. They didn't need a reason.
My current programming job requires a reason.
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For a small business in a small community where everybody knows everybody, it is very disconcerting to hear "water cooler talk" about this or that employee posting complaints to FB about work. One one hand we don't want an employee that bashes work on FB, but on the other, we don't want to draw negative attention by firing the employees who do so...
...which brings me to my point... The employees who post negative updates about their work to FB are likely less than model employees in the first place. If there is ever a definitive court ruling on the legality of firing based solely on FB use or slander, look for companies to use this as a way to shed unwanted workers.
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> would find really obscure proxies just to be able to use FB.
Jesus, why didn't he just get an iPhone or something and bypass the company system altogether?
That's what I do. I don't do Facebook, but my agency blocks about every fourth site on the internet. It's ridiculous. So whenever there's something I want to see, I just pull out the phone and it's there in seconds.
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(http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2010/06/pirates-fire-outspoken-pie rogi/1) ... That one worked out so well for the Pirates....
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Why is everyone defending the boss?
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Re: Why is everyone defending the boss?
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If you want to keep something private, use private methods (email, face to face discussion). Posting it in a place where more than one person can see it pretty much makes it public.
The employee made their own bed on this one.
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And before you jump on the whole facebook is public, email is private, blah blah blah... my facebook is set to private so only my friends can see.
Moral of the story here... Facebook is only public if you want it to be.
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I know of an issue that could come from this...
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"At will"
If you're employed 'at will,' they don't really need a reason, facebook or not.
However, to fire someone on the basis of what you read on facebook is probably not a good idea. (Replacing a competent employee is more expensive than keeping them.) At least don't act without some independent confirmation of the legitimacy and accuracy of what you think you've read.
Also, there's no expectation that what someone posts on facebook is true, so tales of immoral and criminal exploits (e.g.) might just be fiction cooked up to entertain friends.
For that matter, you might have the wrong guy (or an impostor). You also risk getting information grossly out of context. If someone were to post something to a friend's wall, and they share with "friends of friends," then a friend of the employee (co-worker or boss) might only see a portion of the exchange, distorting the message in who-knows-what kind of way. My father-in-law saw something I posted on a friend's wall, and out of context it appeared that I called his wife ugly and his daughter (my wife) stupid. Since he's an in-law, I haven't done anything to disabuse him of this notion, since it just means I'll be hearing from him less -- whereas with a boss I'd have to explain.
Letting a good employee go without considering those things would be a Bad Idea(TM).
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Re: "At will"
Employment 'at will' allows businesses to treat their employees like SLAVES and terrify them into not asking for things like better wages, better insurance, etc.
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Re: Re: "At will"
> someone and also have a public organization reviewing these things
Oh, baloney. The last thing we need is another panel of government bureaucrats running our lives for us.
If I want to fire someone, that's my call. It's my business. I'm the one who sweats blood funding it, working my ass off to make it successful, and if there's someone working for me that I don't like, they're gone. As long as I'm not doing it based on their race, religion or gender, then it's none of the government's business why I fired them.
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Re: Re: Re: "At will"
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A company has a right
JUST bitching about the boss is no big deal, and honestly it's doubtful that that alone would get someone fired. BUT dragging a companies image down with that bitching is more than enough to fire someone.
ALL companies have unhappy employees, but as a company owner I don't want or need my employees out airing that laundry publicly. I would not hesitate to fire someone for talking about internal issues publicly.
First off my company deals with a lot of confidential information, having my employees running off at the mouth about work issues only serves to diminish my customer's confidences that the very same employee isn't running off at the mouth about their information too.
Facts are most states are "At Will Employment" states and no reason is needed for terminating employment, and my guess is that no business would say "you posted such and such so your fired." So back up the claim that they were fired for a facebook post, then back up the claim that it was ONLY about the boss and did not involve company business. Add a little credibility here...
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Re: A company has a right
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This might not be news to many people here, but chances are when you have 500+ friends on Facebook you're not actually "friends" with many of them. You also don't know who they know.
Here's an example:
Sally is a physician's assistant so she has access to a very large amount of very private information about an extremely varied group of people. Sally has a boss, Dr. Smith who recently took an extended vacation and is making Sally work on her day off to catch up with patients. One patient is crotchety old Mr. Jones with an inverted rectum that Sally has stuff back in... again. now Sally can complain 4 different ways; 1, Sally can have a private conversation with one or more friends in person and say "Damn Dr. Smith is making work over time and it's all nasty stuff." 2, she can be specific and say "Dr. Smith is making me come in on Saturday to push back in Steve Jone's withered rectum again." 3 and 4, she can post 1 or 2 on Facebook.
I would argue that scenarios 1 and 3 are fine but 1 is definitely less likely to cause trouble due to it's small sampling of "friends." Scenario 2 would always get you fired if someone happened to know the patient and complain. Sally could claim that she was just venting about her boss but she let a little too much info loose. Scenario 4 is almost guaranteed to get back to someone and should definitely be grounds for dismissal. I would fear that with the precedent set that Sally was merely complaining about her boss, there might be more gray area when it comes to the release of private information.
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Stupidity...
Of course not, someone might see it and then you would get fired.
So, posting the same on Facebook which has an audience hundreds of times larger than the Times makes sense?
Stupid, stupid, stupid...
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Re: Stupidity...
To be blunt, we need less protection of the businesses.... and more of the worker, who has INFINITELY less power than ANY Wal-Mart or Sears.
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Re: Re: Stupidity...
Unless you work for the government, the 1st Amendment has no application to a private company's personnel actions.
You have no free speech rights vis a vis another private person or entity. Conversely a private company is not bound by the 1st Amendment when it decides whom to hire and fire.
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In this case employees having a discussion about work conditions on Facebook definitely is a protected concerted activity. Labor law and many prior judicial precedents spell this out pretty clearly. It all goes back to the first amendment freedom of speech thing. The method or location of the discussion do not matter. Many businesses do NOT understand this. Particularly non-union employers.
In this specific case the companies internet policies limit the "location" of protected discussions. To then use this as an excuse to discipline or terminate someone will get you in trouble with the NLRB.
In a true "at will" situation the smart thing to do is not give a reason for terminating someone. if you can. Union contracts have a big effect on this because you have to give good reason for termination to avoid union backlash. But even in non-union situations companies get themselves into trouble on this all the time because they often want to have a reason for contesting unemployment payments.
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My 2 cents
If the comment is a death threat or name calling or defacement of someone then it is unlawful.
Its simple. Keep your complaints to your self or go through proper chains to file a complaint like your HR department. Making the issue public to the world has consequences. If you can not resolve issues through proper chains then find another job.
This of course is a 2 way road. Your boss can not deface or threaten you publicly.
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This is this organization trying to head off people being fired for having LEGITIMATE GRIPES WITH and or VENTING about their business at home or online.
To DOM.... no, it is NOT that simple, to be blunt. File a complaint through your HR department? BWAHAHAHAHAHA! That's even more asking to be fired!
The fact is that it is time for these companies to realize that if you have unhappy employees.... YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG!
Whether you find out about that through a lawsuit or through Facebook doesn't matter!
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firing over facebook?
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firing over facebook?
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Re: firing over facebook?
This is what I said... (i was mad)
"Seriously... Ppl need to get their stories straight. You think I'm an idiot or something? You're NOT that stupid. Fml. Well working a double tmrw! Over joyed!!
Dear female who said she word work for me in the morning and now can't @ 10:30pm,
Fuck you and your made up stories
Sincerely, co-worker that knows your lying"
The owner seen it and I was fired this morning. Let me also add that I'm not friends with the new girl that works there either. She can't see anything.
I NEED SOME INPUT!! lol Is that even legal?It's also freedom of speech... right??
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Re: Re: firing over facebook?
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Setting an example
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I did this
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husband terminated after a wife made a facebook post
Dean Patesays Really?? You should be grateful not hateful! I don't appreciate your advertising and now all favors for the Millers are gone! Good luck and don't call me looking for a way out again when things get right!
February 14 at 12:24pm via mobile. he then started sending text messages to my husband telling him to get a handle on me or get out. also telling him he was going to get the dogs on him and that the bashing of his company on facebook was direct disrescept. text messages were sent to myself as well telling me it was my fault my husband was unemployed and how he dont give a fuck about us. so as you read my post and the post made by the vice president of the company I ask you from the soup line what can I or my husband do?
please keep in mind that 37+ comments were added by others adding to and willing to help fight my husband to secure a promotion.
February 15 near Boise, ID via mobile
A word of wisdom for all employees and their families...
"If you take a shot at the king....you had better kill him"!
I am still the King and until Wall at says differently, I will rule how I see fit. If you chose to bad mouth my kingdom on FB and other public channels, you will suffer under my crown!
We work hard to provide opportunity for you to feed your families and direct disrespect will not go unnoticed or unpunished. When you are in the soup line then and only them do you have the right to bad mouth Focus and me personally.
X....THE KING
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an e-mail to another via FB
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Mind you, I have NEVER had any disciplinary actions against me, I have been a model employee with Excellent annual performance evaluations.
my personal Facebook page that is set to private, and does not even mention where I work, or what I do for a living.
I ranted I was tired of this place, and that I was gonna look for a new job, and another post said I was tired of liars and backstabbers and I wanted to find another way to make money besides working for someone else.
I was called into bosses office and told I was either going to be terminated, or suspended.
If she suspended me, I was going to have to write an APOLOGY LETTER to my boss and put in my HR file.
I need legal advice. I didn't mention anyone by name, no employer information was disclosed, and I vented my personal feelings...
Is it legal for the employer to suspend me for this, or terminate my employment?
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Cursing the company
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my opinion
That's really what started this was a freakn Check Stub that payroll claims they can not provide of this weeks out of town pay.
I mean really you know he has no internet while at work and you are going to punish him for the actions of someone else.
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