Does Google Have A Patent Problem... Or Does The Patent System Have A Google Problem?
from the oddities dept
If you follow patents in the tech world, a good site to watch is LatestPatents.com, which highlights a few big tech companies, listing out the number of patent applications published each week and patents granted each week. What always strikes me is the differences in numbers between the companies. For example, last week, Google had seven patent applications published and seven patents granted. Compare that to Microsoft, which had 35 patent applications published and 40 patents granted. Apple had 21 applications published and 21 patents granted. IBM is, of course, king of them all with 122 patent applications published and 118 patents granted last week alone.The numbers are pretty consistent, really.
Anyway, Google's patent policy is getting some attention as it's announced that it's bidding on Nortel's patents almost entirely as an attempt to keep them out of the hands of patent trolls. As we noted last year, all that's left of Nortel is a big patent portfolio, which we expected to end up with Intellectual Ventures or some other patent troll. However, Google is hoping to step in and explained its reasoning, noting that it would prefer real patent reform, but it recognizes that it may need to buy this portfolio as a defensive move to keep it from getting sued and hopes that it allows greater innovation.
Amazingly, patent supporters are interpreting this as being Google having to "catch up" on "patent ownership," as if the company has made a huge mistake in not going patent crazy in its early years. That entire article seems to take the position that not patenting everything was a "mistake" on Google's part, rather than a recognition that patents aren't necessary for innovation, and actually may be a hindrance to innovation. Now that Google is being pushed to shell out close to a billion dollars just to get some patents it doesn't really seem to want or need, shouldn't that be evidence that the patent system has a Google problem, in that Google didn't (and doesn't) really need patents to innovate, rather than Google having a patent problem?
![Hide This Hide this](https://ii.techdirt.com/s/t/i/topclose.png)
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: defensive patents, patents
Companies: google, nortel
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Sad State of Affairs
The only winners in our current patent system are the lawyers.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Sad State of Affairs
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Worse than the Nuclear Option
Google has generally not chosen to go with the usual massive portfolio needed to make the threat of the nuclear option credible. Google is doing something worse than the nuclear option. They are actually defending themselves on the merits of the case. If you sue Google and press them too hard, they are likely to defend the patent by trying to invalidate your patent or limit its scope. In the worst (or best) case scenario they might try to fight the patent system itself and invalidate an entire class of patents such as software patents. This is a risky strategy, but it is a credible threat against trolls as well as producing companies.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Worse than the Nuclear Option
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Worse than the Nuclear Option
Patents are like nuclear weapons. The practice of stocking up on patents is like the M.A.D. (Mutual Assured Destruction) strategy: if you fire all of your patents against me, I'll fire all of my patents against you and nobody wins, so we are both better off not attacking.
If I have more/broader patents than you, I can strike when/where you least expect it, giving me First Strike capability.
Patent trolls are like "rogue states". They have nothing to lose and everything to win, so they just fire patents at random, nuking everything on their path. They are the greatest threat to the "stability" of the patent system.
The only thing I am missing is where does Google fit in all this. Are they building a missile shield? Or perhaps working on a permanent patent disarmament treaty? Not sure yet.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Worse than the Nuclear Option
Unfortunately, that's the more expensive route. They are looking at this billion dollar purchase as a bargain defense against patent litigation from practicing entities - remember, NPE's have a lot less to lose in a patent battle.
That's crazy. If the patent system really worked, INNOVATION would be the best defense. Instead, it means you routinely have to go the incredibly long and expensive route of getting a bad patent invalidated or defending your invention as unique enough. It's cheaper to buy up a bunch of broad patents to threaten people with when they show up lookng for a handout.
I think our patent system is really a cleverly disguised protection scheme - probably being run secretly by the mafia.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Google has a congressional problem...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Worse than the Nuclear Option
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Effects of patents on innovation
The only problem is, it's patented by Xerox until at least 2016. So the only software using it is HP Openview and some European academic projects.
See, patents foster innovation! Just like the Obama administration fosters transparancy, and government cuts foster job creation.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
People don't get patents in hopes that, if/when they go out of business, they will be able to pay more of what they owe in opposed to paying less of what they owe, and so they should get more patents to innovate. Heck, people who get patents for innovative purposes probably don't exactly plan on going out of business to begin with.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
Better than what we have now.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
The Google Patent has System Problems.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
You are an idiot, Mikey
Hence no need for patents to protect their technology and almost no exposure to patent threats
Contrast this to MShit or IBM with their heavy exposure on the client/equipment side of IT business
Still remember Netscape ?
I guess you don't - you were still going under your parents table to piss when they vanisned
They had great tech (at the time) but no patents
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
non-trasferrable patents will immediately kill all employment contracts in high-tech industry
Ever signed IP clause in non-compete agreement ?
Without transferrable IP scientists and engineers wil have to be chained to their corporate employers
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
Just like any other property
And property is the foundation of this capitalistic society
Write it in large letters on your stupid forehead, punk
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: You are an idiot, Mikey
I guess you don't - you were still going under your parents table to piss when they vanisned
Funny. I started writing Techdirt when Netscape was still the dominant browser. But, you know, you're not big on facts.
They had great tech (at the time) but no patents
Um. No. They didn't. It's amazing how you rewrite history. Netscape had good technology, that became MASSIVELY bloated by version 4, when the company focused on a disastrous business model idea. That allowed Microsoft to step in instead. It had nothing to do with patents.
Angry dude, it's okay for you to be angry. But making up stuff? That's just silly.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
If the IP was not developed by the scientist/engineer, then the change to IP's transferability doesn't impact him one way or the other.
If the IP was developed by the scientist/engineer, but owned by the company, then this change wouldn't impact him one way or the other.
If the IP was developed by the scientist/engineer, and owned by him personally, then the IP rights just go with him when he changes job regardless of its transferability. so the change still doesn't impact him one way or the other.
If the IP is jointly owned by scientis/engineer and the company, then they would still share the ownership of the IP after he changes job, still isn't impacted by the change.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: You are an idiot, Mikey
If patents were in effect, we'd probably still be stuck with bland, crappy, bloated browsers that could only render HTML 1.0. Yay.
I agree that the downfall of Netscape had nothing to do with patents (or lack of them). IE was just the better browser (I can't believe I just said that). Basic market forces were what killed Netscape.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
No they don't, not if the law says they don't.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
If they're property merely because you define them as such, then your arguments must take into consideration the distinction between property as defined by you and property as defined by others.
"Just like any other property"
Cars are buses, just like any other buses. Fine, lets define a car as a bus. There are differences and if I want to discuss buses and call them cars then my discussions need to make such distinctions where such distinctions apply.
"And property is the foundation of this capitalistic society"
If intellectual property is an important aspect of this capitalistic society, then you have to show that this capitalistic society can't be replaced by a better capitalistic society without patents. I argue that it can.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
you have no clue just like the rest of this stupid crowd
Patents are ALWAYS owned by inventors initially but get implicitly assigned to their corporate employers when an inventor signs an IP clause (usually on the very first day of employment)
This is a very standard practice in high-tech - there is no way to avoid it
IP clause can be very comprehensive, downright scary - they want to own you outright. THis is especially true with larger companies like Mshit, IBM etc.
That's the reason I stay away from large tech companies - this way at least I can own things I do in my spare time, even if costs me money in terms of paycheck
[ link to this | view in thread ]
we�re not going to pay
Prior to eBay v Mercexchange, small entities had a viable chance at commercializing their inventions. If the defendant was found guilty, an injunction was most always issued. Then the inventor small entity could enjoy the exclusive use of his invention in commercializing it. Unfortunately, injunctions are often no longer available to small entity inventors because of the Supreme Court decision so we have no fair chance to compete with much larger entities who are now free to use our inventions. Worse yet, inability to commercialize means those same small entities will not be hiring new employees to roll out their products and services. And now some of those same parties who killed injunctions for small entities and thus blocked their chance at commercializing now complain that small entity inventors are not commercializing. They created the problem and now they want to blame small entities for it. What dissembling! If you don�t like this state of affairs (your unemployment is running out), tell your Congress member. Then maybe we can get some sense back in the patent system with injunctions fully enforceable on all infringers by all inventors, large and small.
For the truth about trolls, please see http://truereform.piausa.org.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
"defensive"?
[ link to this | view in thread ]