Homework Assignment: Go Talk To Your Representative Or Senator About SOPA/PIPA

from the do-it! dept

Fri, Jan 6th 2012 7:39pm — Mike Masnick

We've already discussed how things will work at the end of the month when the Senate comes back into session and Harry Reid tries to put PIPA to a vote. However, as we noted, that only works if enough Senators are convinced to support a plan to move forward with PIPA and approve the first bill to allow an American internet blacklist to occur. That means there are just a few weeks to make sure that Senators are aware of the widespread outrage about these bills, and that they're not left falling for the lies that Hollywood and the bills' sponsors are spreading.

One way to do this is to go see your Senators and your Congressional Reps over the next few weeks. With Congress out of session, it's pretty typical for elected officials to hold "town hall meetings," and it's important for people to attend these sessions and speak up. I know that many people feel apathetic towards elected officials, and don't believe anything said to them will make a difference -- but that's not true. If they're at least hearing about the controversy and concerns enough, at least some will recognize that this bill is not something they want their names associated with and will back off. Unfortunately, these meetings are often scheduled with very little notice, and the standards/requirements to get in vary drastically. Thankfully, folks have been putting together some great resources to help you figure out when these are being held and how to take part.

The good folks at Reddit are helping to crowdsource info about meetings.
There's a Meetup.com page listing out known townhall sessions. Again, these often appear with very little notice, so check back often.
Even without townhall sessions, you can and should reach out to your elected officials about meeting with them to express your concerns. Even if they don't actually take the meeting, hearing from enough people will alert them that there's widespread concern. Internet Freedom has set up a neat forum system, organized by state, that will both highlight when there are townhalls and, more importantly, provide details on how to request a meeting with your Senators. On top of that, it will allow coordination for those who do get meetings to go with a group of similarly concerned residents.
EFF has a page about in district meetings, why they're important and how to set them up. It also has a one-pager with some basic facts that sums up the problems (pdf).
Public Knowledge has also put together a quick two-page citizen packet (pdf) that highlights problems with the bills, and includes some "sample questions" that people might want to ask if possible.

Now, as a group of combined concerned citizens, we don't have the lobbying power of Hollywood or the US Chamber of Commerce, but constituent concerns do matter to politicians. They want to get re-elected at some point, after all. There's less than three weeks to make every Senator aware of the damage they're about to do to the internet, to innovation and to the economy if they're not well-informed about this bill. This is a true GoDaddy situation. While there are some efforts to have SOPA/PIPA supporters lose their next elections, all that's really needed is for them to recognize that this bill is bad news, and to refuse to vote to move the bill forward. That can be done, but it requires a lot of people speaking up and making a difference. Hollywood has the easy access, but the rest of us have the sheer numbers and the facts on our side. Let's make that work for us...

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Filed Under: congress, get involved, meetings, pipa, protect ip, senate, sopa, town hall

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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 8:17pm

Keep cryin' and tryin', chubby. It never ceases to amaze me how important it is to you that property rights not be enforced on the internet.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 8:25pm

"I know that many people feel apathetic towards elected officials, and don't believe anything said to them will make a difference -- but that's not true."

From the reddit link

JeanVanDeVelde writes

"I went to my representative's town hall (Howard Berman, D-CA, SOPA co-sponsor) on Wednesday evening (1/4) and was refused an opportunity to read a 2 minute statement. I agreed to truncate my remarks and go without my written notes. I was then informed that I could only ask a question, I assume the next step was to screen my question but I left the meeting, sent an email expressing how offended I was by the closed nature of the event and followed up with a call to his office the next day. I still have not received any form of reply, much less an apology and a chance to have my voice heard on this matter.

I now understand why OWS uses the "mic check" strategy. The staff was there to stonewall and close people out.

I'd love it if Reddit could join me with a couple of nicely placed phone calls to Mr. Berman inquiring about why people were refused a chance to make a statement and why the "town hall" for constituents within his district was used as an opportunity for Mr. Berman to make campaign statements regarding the forthcoming re-districting primary.

This is one of the main guys being paid directly and by lobbyists on behalf of the few media companies that control our industry here in Los Angeles."

Response from J-Ro

"Good on you for taking the time to go. Tip for next time: Do what you need to do to get a chance to speak (ie. say you agree to their conditions), then speak your mind."

and response from JeanVanDeVelde again

"yeah, in the future i'll do a little more social engineering. I was expecting microphone lines (like every public meeting i've ever been to), but it's 100% politics. tough game and i'm not willing to play it, I feel like it's more effective to do activist and volunteer work."

http://www.reddit.com/r/SOPA/comments/o5p6h/help_us_crowdsource_data_on_town_hall_meetings /

Where is this open democracy and free speech you speak of? It doesn't exist. They blocked free speech out from every avenue outside the Internet, from wrongfully granted government established broadcasting and cableco monopolies to political town hall meetings. and, to the extent that the MSM pretends to oppose SOPA/PIPA et al and to the extent that they cover these IP issues with some iota of balance (instead of merely being one sided) and to the extent that they're no longer blatantly dishonest, it's only because of the Internets influence on the media. Mark my word, they intend to turn the Internet into the same censored platform they wrongfully turned everything outside the Internet into through bad laws.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 8:26pm

Re:
Intellectual property privileges shouldn't even exist to begin with. Abolish them.
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Andrew Norton (profile), 6 Jan 2012 @ 8:32pm

Already did.
see Got responses too

http://www.piratepartyofgeorgia.org/2012/01/sopapipa-response-from-austin-scott.html - (georgia's 8th)

http://www.piratepartyofgeorgia.org/2012/01/sopapipa-response-from-johnny-isakson.html - one of Georgia's senators
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Jayce, 6 Jan 2012 @ 8:45pm

And they would care, why?
"You're" representatives care about campaign donations.

Unless you happen to be one of those who give them big donations, they don't care.

Witness: the Patriot Act, the stimulus bill, the tarp bill (which even Nancy Pelosi granted was about 95% against in phone calls to her office). They. Do. Not. Care.

Nearly every campaign is won by the person with the most money to spend. It is 90+%. It is in a politicians best interest to advocate for the people that donate. Anything else is a waste of their time.

I don't think there is a practical solution, but for the foreseeable future, I'll be getting a write in ballot and putting "None of the Above!". Maybe if enough people do that, we'll get a little change. Maybe.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 9:03pm

"Homework Assignment: Go Read SOPA/PIPA Before Talking To Your Representative Or Senator"

FTFY
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 9:04pm

Re:
A boring and repetitive troll.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 9:07pm

Re:
Then the MPAA/RIAA should stop trying to trespass on the private property rights of Internet infrastructure owners and search engines using legislation like this. They're all looters, you know. Couldn't make a go of it in the free market, now they're resorting to government violence to prop up their failed business models. Typical looter rationalizing.
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The Original Anonymous Coward (profile), 6 Jan 2012 @ 9:14pm

Attack the person if you can't argue against his facts
Rule 5 of "Rules for Radicals" by Saul Alinsky:

"Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage."

Your post applied this rule perfectly.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 9:19pm

Re: Attack the person if you can't argue against his facts
Excellent counter. I like the cut of your jib.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 9:19pm

Re: Re:
I can only surmise that actually reading the terms of pending legislation is something you are not inclined to do. Otherwise, you would not say something so foolish.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 9:23pm

Re: Re:
Yes, we should strive to treat under law foreign sites more favorably that domestic sites.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 9:25pm

Re: Re: Re:
I can only surmise that you are either uninformed, misinformed, or an idiot. Otherwise, you would not disagree with me.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 9:26pm

Re: Re: Re:
no one besides you said that.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 9:26pm

Re: Re: Re:
I've read the legislation. It's still the same old censorship with DNS blocking - a draconian attack on free speech. Plus it coopts Google and other search engines into being the MPAA/RIAA's bagman.

Hasn't the MPAA/RIAA ever heard of private property?
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Pixelation, 6 Jan 2012 @ 9:46pm

Re: Re:
"A boring and repetitive troll."

We should wash his mouth out with SOPA.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 9:56pm

Re:
There were at least 7-9 speakers on SOPA. The other 500 people in the room had more pressing issues on their mind like jobs, healthcare, the 405. You know, real world stuff- not fretting over whether you can get free movies online.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 9:59pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Hasn't the MPAA/RIAA ever heard of private property?

Yes, it what foreign pirates are stealing and monetizing for themselves.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 10:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Obviously you also need to read the bill. Even under SOPA, foreign infringers have less liability.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 10:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
No, copyright is a government monopoly created and enforced by state violence.

Private property is Google - and every other Internet company's - websites and associated infrastructure, like DNS servers. You don't own it. Keep your filthy looter hands off of it.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 10:17pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So Google's digits are private property but my movie's digits aren't?

Does your doctor know you got out of your straitjacket and accessed his computer? Either you're bat-shit crazy or you're Gorehound forgetting to sign in. Either way, up the thorazine dose.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 10:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Have you stopped beating your wife yet, parasite?
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 10:25pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
but my movie's digits aren't?

Are you just a mental defective or do I have to explain it to you really, really slowly so you can get it through your miniscule brain that copyright is a government monopoly, not private property like web and DNS servers?
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 10:42pm

Re: Re:
I thought SOPA was about getting free movies offline? Because that's even easier than getting free movies online.
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tom, 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:04am

Response to: Anonymous Coward on Jan 6th, 2012 @ 8:17pm
there are no property rights on the internet. everything is a 'copy'.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:09am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
and your point?

I do not support SOPA because I don't think anyone should have any liability when it comes to issues of IP, especially since I am (almost if not) an IP abolitionist. So, again, your point?
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:13am

Re: Re:
"more pressing issues on their mind"

If this is not such a pressing issue then there is little need to pass it and you have little need to be here worrying so much about it.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:15am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You assume that people here agree with the bill. but... part of the point is that maybe we don't.
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Suja (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:21am

Re: Re:
seconded, people didn't need them in the times of pre-copyright/IP we don't need them now
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Suja (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:22am

Re: Re: Re:
i think that would just leave a really bad taste in his mouth
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Suja (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:24am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
like rising it with shit

i guess that'll turn anyone off to the idea so maybe we should try it
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:26am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Copy protection laws should not be about preventing others from monetizing content in and of itself, it should be about advancing social welfare (ie: by promoting the progress), just like any other law (including anti - theft laws, anti - murder laws, etc...).

and, given your definition of the word 'stealing' I see nothing wrong with it. 'Stealing' as in copying I'm fine with, 'stealing' as in depriving someone of a (limited/scarce) tangible property that they 'own' I think is more unacceptable.

IP laws deprive me of my (otherwise abundant) right to copy and they steal taxpayer money to provide you with the necessary enforcement, taxpayer money that I'm deprived of. That definition of the word stealing is closer to the definition of the word that I consider wrong since my right to copy exists outside of government and I'm being deprived of a natural right.

I say abolish IP.
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Suja (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:27am

Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Jan 6th, 2012 @ 8:17pm
i heard if you believe something hard enough it comes true, seems to have worked for a lot of people, not so much for those who don't

...copyright & IP are kind of starting to sound like religion...

well, at least most religions have the benefit of the doubt in that one cannot disprove (or prove) most of their beliefs, copyright/IP worshipers don't have this luxury

didn't stop them from blindly believing it though
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:29am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The physical 'storage' medium that you physically own, that contains a combination of bits, is yours, the combination of bits aren't. If you want to keep that combination of bits from being copied and known by others then don't let others know what that combination of bits are.
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Suja (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:38am

Re:
is that a to-do list? here get caught up:

http://www.publicknowledge.org/files/Public%20Knowledge%20citizen%20packet_1.pdf
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:40am

Re: Re:
There were at least 7-9 speakers on SOPA. The other 500 people in the room had more pressing issues on their mind like jobs, healthcare, the 405. You know, real world stuff- not fretting over whether you can get free movies online.

Then you'd think our elected officials would have more pressing things on their minds as well, rather than trying to push this piece of corporate legislation through.
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Suja (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:42am

Re: Re:
https://www.eff.org/sites/default/files/SOPA-PIPA-one-pager.pdf

"Homework Assignment: Go Read the article on Talking To Your Representative Or Senator about SOPA/PIPA Before Talking To Your Representative Or Senator about SOPA/PIPA"

FTFY

it's not the best explanation ever but pretty much says the same crap as what the bills themselves says, except without all of the long drawn out bullcrap & subtle wording
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:48am

Re: And they would care, why?
I don't think there is a practical solution, but for the foreseeable future, I'll be getting a write in ballot and putting "None of the Above!". Maybe if enough people do that, we'll get a little change. Maybe.

I wonder if that would work. Plenty of politicians get elected without carrying over 50% of the popular vote. If you win with 43% of the vote, are you really the "chosen" representative or just winning by default? What happens when a ton of disgruntled write-in votes takes the candidate down to the point where he or she wins with 15-20% of the popular vote? My guess is that the candidate still takes office, simply for coming out on top.

I'd love it if falling below a certain percentage meant all the candidates had to run again. And again. And again, until drained completely of campaign finances and maybe, just maybe, the desire to "represent" a group of citizens who have clearly demonstrated that they'd rather be represented by no one than by anyone on the ballot.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:53am

Re:
Go Read SOPA/PIPA Before Talking To Your Representative Or Senator

Wouldn't that give us an unfair advantage? I would imagine that most representatives have yet to read the bill they're voting on. Plenty have already been told how to vote by helpful lobbyists which makes reading the bill a waste of everyone's time. There may be a few reps who've skimmed through it looking for a place to insert some pork, but it appears that the only representatives who have read it are those opposing it.
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athnam (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 2:41am

Re: cryin' and tryin'
It never ceases to amaze the rest of us how trolls like you can be so willfully ignorant. Property already IS protected and internet property protection is enforced. Nobody condones theft or abuses of others' property. You leave yourself open to ridicule when you make such ignorant statements.
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onyxmicro (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 4:00am

Oh, great. Goodlatte is my rep.....(sigh)
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PaulT (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 5:43am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Why do you feel that foreign sites ho are operating perfectly legally under their own laws should be as liable as domestic sites under US law just because they're online? Do you also feel that US sites should be subject to Chinese or Saudi rule in the same way? If not, how are you not a hypocrite?
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PaulT (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 5:49am

Re: Re:
Excellent. As well as admitting that your darling pet project is unnecessary and trivial, you managed throw in an ad hominem attack, all without addressing any points in the post you were responding to.

If only you applied as much thought and talent to the real world as you do to pointless trolling, maybe you'd get somewhere in life.
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PaulT (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 5:57am

Re:
You're yet to actually detail which parts of the bill people are wrong about. Most here have read it, and have come to the same conclusion. If you were interested in actually correcting people, rather than attacking and idiot trolling, maybe you'd have mentioned the parts of the bill people are "wrong" about...

But, no, you attack not only people here, but every expert who has come out against it as being wrong or ignorant, yet never explain yourself with anything as solid as citations or evidence. Pathetic, as always.
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gorehound (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 6:03am

Re:
You have to be a troll to support SOPA/PIPA.
No true Constitution Loving Born US Citizen would want to see any kind of Censorship come to our Free Country.We have been steadily seeing our Rights taken away.The line has been drawn.
SOPA/PIPA = WAR
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Jeff, 7 Jan 2012 @ 6:11am

The President signed the National Defense Authorization Act amid more opposition right before an election year and you think a few constituents' voices will stay their hand?
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 6:48am

Re: Re: Re:
In all likelihood, he probably wasn't even there and simply made up what he said. Who knows.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 7:38am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Does SOPA/PIPA impose on foreign sites any of the liabilities ordinarily associated with infringement under US copyright law?

How nice it would be for domestic infringers if the sole remedy available was an injunction to cease their infringing activity, and failing to do so their access to money was made more difficult.

Seems to me here is a perfect opportunity for users who simply cannot live without these sites to crowdsource their operating expenses. After all, this is just one of many business models that is constantly trumpeted here.
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Digitari, 7 Jan 2012 @ 7:45am

RE the great SOPA Wars
Sopa meet STOPA

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread793936/pg7

SOPA/PIPA = WAR
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 7:55am

Re: Re:
Specific references by Section and paragraph have been provided ad nauseum.

At least one technology expert has made it clear that filtering is acceptable in some circumstances, but in his opinion the subject matter of SOPA/PIPA is not such a circumstance. This is a policy, and not a technical, argument, and yet it keeps being promoted by others as a technology matter. This too has been presented.

It has been pointed out repeatedly that the bill raising the majority of ire, SOPA, and currently pending before the House is not the original bill. And yet, a plethora of those who raise the hue and cry of "censorship", "due process", "break the internet", etc. continue to advance opinions based upon a version of the bill that is no longer pending.

The above are exemplary, and by no means a comprehensive list.
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iBelieve, 7 Jan 2012 @ 8:06am

Its Foolish
~to think that if they can't be reasoned with over the horrible consequences for such bad legislation to the world's internet savvy and all the Huge interests that oppose this, then it should be apparent that tHEY will not bow down to coercion or threats even when it seems to threaten their political standing. Its foolish.
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Richard (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 8:21am

Re: Re:
The other 500 people in the room had more pressing issues on their mind like jobs, healthcare,

If they have jobs and healthcare on their minds then of course they would also want to oppose SOPA/PIPA since those bills would have a negative effect on jobs and healthcare for ordinary people.
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Richard (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 8:27am

Re: Re: Re:
At least one technology expert has made it clear that filtering is acceptable in some circumstances, but in his opinion the subject matter of SOPA/PIPA is not such a circumstance. This is a policy, and not a technical, argument, and yet it keeps being promoted by others as a technology matter.

Well that just shows how little you understand doesn't it?

You cannot separate technology and policy so neatly as you would like. The circumstances of filtering WILL AFFECT technical issues. The simplest of these are the volume of data that you wish to filter and the nature of the discriminant between material to be filtered and that which is not to be filtered. Both of these factors have a huge effect on whether filtering is technically practical without major impact on the network infrastructure.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 8:47am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Can't separate technology and policy so neatly? Seems Mr. Vixie is able to do so without much difficulty.
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Anonymous Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 9:05am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Sounds to me like he is quoting from the dialog in the movie Apocalypto.

He spends his time reading the script for new jewels to expose us to.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 9:34am

Re: Re:
There were at least 7-9 speakers on SOPA. The other 500 people in the room had more pressing issues on their mind like jobs, healthcare, the 405. You know, real world stuff- not fretting over whether you can get free movies online.

Then perhaps Congress should concern themselves with more pressing issues, like jobs, healthcare, the 405. You know, the real world stuff - not propping up companies who don't want to adapt to changing markets and real competition.
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abc gum, 7 Jan 2012 @ 9:37am

Re:
Why are these partisan get-togethers called "Town Hall Meetings"? If it were intended to be a way for our representatives to listen to their constituents and possibly respond then I assume things would be different than what you experienced, it appears that these meetings are not for that purpose at all.

Many citizens of this country were taught that the elected members of congress represented the interests of their constituents. It is apparent this is not true, I'm not sure that it ever was.

When used as a vehicle to prosthelytize a better name might be circle jerk.
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Richard (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 10:06am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[citation needed]
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Loki, 7 Jan 2012 @ 10:14am

Re: Re: And they would care, why?
It's not even really 43% though. I saw a recent mayoral election where only 16% of the eligible voters actually voted. 16%!!

The winner carried almost 60% of the vote, but that comes out to only 10% of the actual eligible voters.

You don't really need a lot of votes, or even a real majority, to win.

Look at it this way. Let's say it's a small town and there are only 100 people who are able to vote, but only 40 plan to vote. 20 for the democrat, 20 for the republicans.

I don't really need to worry about most of them. I need to put most of my efforts into the other 60, but I don't even really need most of them. I just need to win maybe 15 people who weren't planning to vote before. If I can then convert just 2 people from each of the big 2 parties, the vote ends up being 19 for me, 18 for the democrat, 18 for the republican.

You don't need a majority, you just need to win over the right minority.

The hardest part is just getting the right information into to right hands.
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Richard (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 10:19am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Can't separate technology and policy so neatly? Seems Mr. Vixie is able to do so without much difficulty.

Actually, from my reading of what he has said, his position seems to be the exact reverse of what you claim. He does not have a problem with the motivations (allegedly) behind SOPA/PIPA but says that the technical effects of the proposed filtering will be a disaster.

Of course one CAN separate technology and policy IN PRINCIPLE (as Paul Vixie does) but one cannot separate them IN PRACTICE in the way that you claim.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 10:20am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The remedies for bogus takedown requests should exceed the 'remedies' for infringement. How nice it is for IP extremists that contribute nothing to take down websites with false claims and face relatively low penalties when compared to infringement penalties.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 11:08am

If Internet companies, like Google and Facebook and Amazon and others, are against SOPA they need to do what is right by their shareholders and fight SOPA the hard line way. Remove ALL products made by SOPA supporters from their stores, their search results, etc. and keep them out. Put up a placeholder explaining why. Let's face it, money talks, and little to nothing else does.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 12:59pm

I have a problem my homework is a bit different.

I'm trying to understand and put together
diff +
Mongoose +
Python +
PostgreSQL +
Git +
USC (United States Constitution +
PHP +
Lua +
argument map +
thinking maps +

Goals:

- Create a database with the laws of any country.
- Create a database of proposals(add, sub, mod), that can be visualized, voted and have stats tranferred to others so they can combine that information to get a picture of the acceptance or not of any proposal. It must be secure and anonymous while protecting against flooding(aka fraud) as much as possible.
- Create the equivalent of an instant messenger where people can group together anonymously with only pseudonymous to identify them.
- Create a historical database with information about public organizations and public figures and how they voted on issues, how many times they changed their minds, who finance them, public opinion of the instituion or individual(aka like or dislike), public confidence.

eDemocry is coming.

For now is just a dream and I'm not a programmer :)
The point being start the process of identifying the data that people need to make better decisions and the ways to deliver that to them.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:12pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Exactly since SOPA is unable to stop the website from operating what is the purpose of the law if not to threaten domestic websites even further and use it as a censor tool?
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:14pm

Re:
Then those idiots(aka content owners) keep complaining about how they are being discriminated against and how unfair that is.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:17pm

Re: Re: Re:
Quote:
Specific references by Section and paragraph have been provided ad nauseum.

<citation needed>
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:21pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
See penultimate paragraph at:

http://www.circleid.com/posts/coica_and_secure_dns/
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
SOPA does even worse than that, it turns people who did nothing wrong elsewhere into criminals in the United States without giving them the chance to defend themselves by keeping the bar high to do so.

When are American authorities start dragging people out of connection flights?

Could a blogger end up in some wanted list on American borders?

What would happen if other countries started to do the same, would American business man be able to wonder around the world freely?
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:22pm

eDemocracy goals and dreams

diff +
Mongoose +
Python +
PostgreSQL +
Git +
USC (United States Constitution +
PHP +
Lua +
argument map +
thinking maps +

Goals:

- Create a database with the laws of any country.
- Create a database of proposals(add, sub, mod), that can be visualized, voted and have stats tranferred to others so they can combine that information to get a picture of the acceptance or not of any proposal. It must be secure and anonymous while protecting against flooding(aka fraud) as much as possible.
- Create the equivalent of an instant messenger where people can group together anonymously with only pseudonymous to identify them.
- Create a historical database with information about public organizations and public figures and how they voted on issues, how many times they changed their minds, who finance them, public opinion of the instituion or individual(aka like or dislike), public confidence.

eDemocry is coming.

For now it is just a dream and I'm not a programmer :)
The point being start the process of identifying the data that people need to make better decisions and the ways to deliver that to them.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:46pm

"don" their sarcasm hats. "Dawn" is a female's name or a liquid dish detergent.

Or maybe that was sarcasm?

LOL

Yes, I am the internet grammar police. You may address me as Madam Apostrophe.
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Richard (profile), 7 Jan 2012 @ 1:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You misread this - the fact is that blocking child abuse material IS technically different from blocking copyright infringement for two reasons.

1. The volume of child abuse material is enormously less than the volume of copyright infringement material.

2. It is easy enought to determine the nature of child abuse material by simply looking at it. Copyright infringement - as demonstrated by the megaupload video case is much more difficult to determine and therefore the risk of an incorrect takedown is much greater.

As a consequence of these two facrts the volume of disruption, whilst bearable in the child abuse case, would be enormously greater in the copyright infringement case

I'm sure that these facts wee in the back of Paul Vixie's mind when he wrote the paragraph - so your naive interpretation of it is incorrect.
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Unrepentant one legged pirate and a bird., 7 Jan 2012 @ 2:11pm

eDemocracy is coming
Goals:

- Create a database with the laws of any country.
- Create a database of proposals(add, sub, mod), that can be visualized, voted and have stats tranferred to others so they can combine that information to get a picture of the acceptance or not of any proposal(aka argument map + voting stats). It must be secure and anonymous while protecting against flooding(aka fraud) as much as possible.
- Create the equivalent of an instant messenger where people can group together anonymously with only pseudonymous to identify them.
- Create a historical database with information about public organizations and public figures and how they voted on issues, how many times they changed their minds, who finance them, public opinion of the instituion or individual(aka like or dislike), public confidence.

eDemocry is coming.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 2:33pm

Asking a democrat to give up power that can result in lobbying money and control the population for their own good? You are dreaming if you think this is not going to pass. Just look at how they are now giving waivers to unions and heavy donors for the health care law...a law that these same interests supported now that they don't have to pay for it they can donate more to their politicians. This will have the same result, and just like healthcare the move is on for them to convince their constituents why this is for their own good and then pass it even if there is no support for it. Their very first act will be to shut down this site and others like it that are against their political will.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 4:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Somehow, given his TAMmy position, doing so might actually satisfy some strange fetish of his instead...
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abc gum, 7 Jan 2012 @ 4:33pm

Re:
"Asking a democrat to ... "

This is tiresome.

The US political environment is essentially a two party system, Democrat and Republican. When it comes to representing their constituents, neither party can be called exemplary. Neither party can claim the high road, and both of them will sell your ass up the river for a dollar. Both parties have their die-hard cheerleaders who will blow smoke up yer ass at any and all opportunities - so knock it off already.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 5:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
IOW, if it is a relatively small amount of stuff that we agree is really important to shut off, then filtering is OK. However, if it is a large amount of stuff that we do not agree is really important to shut off, then filtering is not OK.

This articulates a policy argument. "Yes, we can do it in either case, but we believe one is more important than the other."
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 5:32pm

And while you're at it, talk to them about the Patriot Act, Obamacare, the NDAA, and light bulbs. Good luck.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 6:27pm

Re:
"Or maybe that was sarcasm?". When did that don on you?
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 6:53pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
what he's admitting is that it is technologically feasible, that volume makes blocking infringing a larger task. Thanks for your honesty, it's rare around here. So much for breaking the internet.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 9:19pm

Whichever party wants to make government bigger for their interests is going to use that power to get lobbying money. They are going to withhold services to their political enemies while favoring their special interests. Stating both parties do it is not excusing it.

The only answer is to make government smaller- period.

There is no such thing as a large organization that doesn't have some corruption going on within it. Business, Government, etc...giving them any power at all is a mistake especially when they claim they are only trying to help you. If you haven't realized yet that there isn't a selfless politician then you are an idealistic fool.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Jan 2012 @ 9:33pm

Governments, large organizations, and other groups so easily charged as being corrupt hold not a candle to the worst and most vile of all...homeowner associations.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2012 @ 2:20am

Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Jan 6th, 2012 @ 8:17pm
Everything is a repost of a repost of a repost.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2012 @ 2:29am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I'd say that blocking child abuse takes up maybe 0.1% of a search company's time and money. To do the same with "infringing" material would probably take up an additional 30% of the total time and money; for YouTube, it would instantly bankrupt it without a single notice being made.

It's like cutting someone's heart out when they have the flu. It's a massivy bad law that pays lip service to actually correcting the issue, without doing a single thing to solve it.
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btrussell (profile), 8 Jan 2012 @ 5:22am

Re:
Do not step on my property or I will have you charged with trespassing!
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btrussell (profile), 8 Jan 2012 @ 5:24am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Yes, it what foreign pirates are stealing and monetizing for themselves."

How can they be making money competing with free?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2012 @ 5:51am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Because the FBI motto doesn't apply to monied interests.
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Richard (profile), 8 Jan 2012 @ 5:58am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
This articulates a policy argument. "Yes, we can do it in either case, but we believe one is more important than the other."

No - he is saying that the technical measures that worked in one case could also be applied to the other - but they would not have the same result in the second case - which in my book is a technical issue.

You see there are two types of technical issues. Those that apply at a micro scale - ie whether it is possible to block a single URL - and the macro scale - whether it is possible to block all URLs that meet a particular criterion.

The latter is still a technical issue,

I think what has happened here is this. Paul Vixie is using the concept of a technical issue in terms of only the micro scale.

Consequently his concept of a policy issue is different to yours and it is wrong of you to assume that because he says there are no technical issues (meaning no small scale ones) that he therefore believes that it is only a policy issue (in your terms) - meaning it is a matter of choice preference and desire and that there are no further practical issues to consider.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2012 @ 6:27am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
YouDope.... YouTube is a dotcom and not subject to SOPA. And it is already complying with US laws on infringing and is still in business last I checked.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2012 @ 7:05am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
See Viacom vs Youtube for why people don't want bad laws in this area.
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abc gum, 8 Jan 2012 @ 7:06am

Re: Re: Re: And they would care, why?
"It's not even really 43% though. I saw a recent mayoral election where only 16% of the eligible voters actually voted. 16%!!"

This is why disenfranchisement and gerrymandering work so well.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2012 @ 7:23am

Re: Re:
Well the problem is if you give one party the power to punish your enemies and reward your lobbyists then you cannot complain when the other party gets the power at the next election. So today Unions get exemptions from the expensive overreaching healthcare and are allowed to post anything they want on the net. IF the Republicans get in office and the private sector gets the exemptions and allowance to post to their hearts contents to get lobbying $$ while the Unions are muzzled and burdened with healthcare laws then you had better understand that is how government works. The more power you give government, the bigger you make it, the more oppressive it will be become in every single instance in every single society for the entire history of man. Accept it.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2012 @ 7:27am

Re:
I totally agree..the only people who want to run on HOA are the ones everyone else would least want in that role!
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abc gum, 8 Jan 2012 @ 7:35am

Re:
"Whichever party wants to ..... They are going to ..... "

- Discussing specific items which can be associated with facts is much preferable to generalities which are loosely applied to almost anything.

"The only answer is to make government smaller- period."

- I see little evidence to support this claim. Sometimes in mathematics, there is only one correct answer - however elsewhere there usually are many answers, each with its own pros and cons. In addition, I assume you support the small government claims mostly espoused by one of the political parties. Do you seriously believe such tripe?

"giving them any power at all is a mistake"

- So, you are an anarchist then?

"If you haven't realized yet that there isn't a selfless politician then you are an idealistic fool."

- I'm glad you realize this and therefore will refrain from making sweeping generalizations.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2012 @ 7:42am

Re:
Patriot act is a perfect example- passed by a republican government - hated by liberals and libertarians alike who do not trust 'the other party' with that power. The Republicans used it to reward their defense donors.

The liberals get in power and they LOVE IT, EXPAND IT, tell everyone they will be protected and use it to get airport scanners put in to the company with lobbyists who gave tons of money to the democratic party. These are examples of why you cannot increase the size of government or give them more power- they will use it to get the campaign funds to stay in power. They rationalize it as doing it for their constituents but they are just doing it to stay in power and end up corrupted.

The only answer regardless of which side you are on is to reduce the size of government- is the person you are voting for going to do that? Have they done that so far?
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Richard (profile), 8 Jan 2012 @ 7:56am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So SOPA would allow YOutube to continue as it is (according to you) but you admit that a clone of Youtube, hosted in (picking a country at random) Switzerland would suffer the problems outlined by the AC you replied to.

Seems to me that the WTO would have someting to say about that one.
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Richard (profile), 8 Jan 2012 @ 8:05am

Re: Re: Re:
The more power you give government, the bigger you make it, the more oppressive it will be become in every single instance in every single society for the entire history of man. Accept it.

Not true - the particular democratic mechanisms used also enter into this. First past the post systems are particularly bad. PR systems are better - particularly if you a a bit of direct democracy - Swiss style.

On the other hand if you taske away government altogether you end up with Somalia...
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Richard (profile), 8 Jan 2012 @ 8:07am

Re: Re:
The only answer regardless of which side you are on is to reduce the size of government-

To what level exactly???
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2012 @ 8:18am

Re: Re: Re:
To a size that follows as a natural consequence of the 10th Amendment.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2012 @ 8:24am

Re: Re: Re:
Also, to a size that would follow as a consequence of repealing the 16th Amendment.
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abc gum, 8 Jan 2012 @ 9:34am

Re: Re: Re:
"Well the problem is ... "

.... general, all encompassing statements.

I do not see any evidence of either party reducing the size of government, perhaps you have an example. I see where revenue is moved from one bucket to another, but how does that reduce anything? Making general statements about a particular political party in the absence of specific details is rather worthless dribble.
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shonvien, 8 Jan 2012 @ 10:10am

some reality check for you guys
here are some reality check, and why you guys must increase the visibility of sopa to a broader base

1. texas web users/ us population =17 176 661 / 313 232 044 = 0.0548368576, i.e 5 % of us population
2. texas web users/ texas population = 17 176 661/25,042,738=68 %
3. 1 million mails send to congress =1 million / 313 232 044 = 0.00319252139, i.e .3 %
4. us net users =77%= 239,893,600, total mails/ emails/ phone calls
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Richard (profile), 8 Jan 2012 @ 10:57am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
From the perspective of someone outside the US you suggestions are pointless - since they only restrict the federal government - yet your general thesis is equally applicable to the state governments.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2012 @ 12:10pm

Re: Re:
Small government does not equal anarchy...no government does equal anarchy. If proposing a smaller government is anarchy then does that mean that you are a Communist? Let me ask you this then...what size government is big enough?
What amount of debt is enough?

I am willing to wager the answer to you will depend on who is in office at the time the question is asked.

As the social security actuaries just passed 120 Trillion and are headed for a quadrillion in about 25 years- do you honestly think this path is sustainable? Do you understand that government is now at a point that it looks out for its own interests more than the interests of the citizen which is why so many unfavorable laws are being shoved through?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2012 @ 12:12pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
State governments DO NOT APPLY since they cannot print their own money to pay off their debt or make laws outside of their constituency.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2012 @ 12:23pm

Re: Re:
You want specifics and think this is all generalizations?

You see little evidence to support that a smaller government is less likely to be A)corrupt and B) have the ability to abuse that power?

Patriot act was already cited as an example- hated by liberals while passed by conservatives when conservatives had power.

Liberals get into power and expand the act after saying they would repeal it and then use it to get money from lobbyists.

Healthcare law is doing the same thing. There are conservatives who are publicly stating they doubt it could be repealed and could aid them going forwards when they win control.

Every law passed equals power and money not just for the party in power but the next party that comes along. EPA is the same- waivers are granted to donors while they expand the laws to punish the other party.

Did you know that the last act GE did before moving their Xray technology to China was create EPA laws that prevented another company from building the same devices to compete here? Our laws state the company that helps form the laws of our country cannot then operate in that sector- well that was just fine by GE. They effectively shut down Siemens from building the devices here, as well. How did they do that? GEs CEO is on Obama's advisory committees.

Gerrymandering, court appointments, it is all done to keep and expand a power base it is the reason the both the OWS and Tea Parties are upset but they only see how it impacts them each will quiet down when their political party is in control but bitch when the tide turns as it does every few cycles in this country.
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Richard (profile), 8 Jan 2012 @ 2:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Your distinction doesn't make any sense to me - I think you are too wound up with the peculiarities of the US constitution.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2012 @ 4:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Explain how Paul Vixie would implement a DNS block when he doesn't know what protocol to target?

If people start using alternatives to bypass blocks, how is DNSSEC going to secure those?

The answer it doesn't and can't do it, also censoring things gives a tremendous incentive for people to find alternatives, so they will happen, and DNS becomes less useful for blocking anything even things that we as a whole would want too.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2012 @ 5:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Human nature makes it impossible to censor anything good or bad.

You will have to learn how to live with the bad, one way or another.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2012 @ 5:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
On a one liner:

If it comes down to freedom vs censorship, I will take even exposure to offensive materials(i.e. child abuse, racism, etc) any day.

Censoring those things doesn't stop the spread of harmful acts, it doesn't deter real criminals and it should be up to individuals to erect their own filters around them, not any government.
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abc gum, 9 Jan 2012 @ 4:25am

Re: Re: Re:
"Small government does not equal anarchy"

You stated: "giving them any power at all is a mistake"
How does nothing equal something?
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abc gum, 9 Jan 2012 @ 4:30am

Re: Re: Re:
That's quite the tirade there, and it completely misses the point.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Jan 2012 @ 5:50am

Re:
Maybe what we should instead strive for is some greater measure of transparency. I actually sort of liked the idea someone presented of Congress-critters being required to wear something like the suits race car drivers wear that have logo patches of their sponsors (campaign donors). Then you can tell at a glance which way a Congress-critter will lean; the larger sponsors (donors) are represented by larger patches, and the like.
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Abba Alhassan bkd, 17 Apr 2014 @ 3:10pm

On behalf of me and entire peoples of birnin kudu local government we wish to heartily rejoice with our great leader and our represnter, Hon. Sabo m. Nakudu. Member bkd buji. Jigawa stae for all the progress he brought to us
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