Canadian Real Estate Agents: Without Us, Poor Homeowners Would Be Getting Attacked And Killed
from the oh-really-now? dept
It's often amazing how legacy industry organizations come up with the most far-fetched and ridiculous reasons to insist that giving the public more information isn't actually in the public interest. Rob Hyndman points us to an effort by real estate agents in Canada who are fighting back against a plan to put house listing information online by claiming that this will expose home sellers to crime, as suddenly criminals will break into their homes. This is based on... absolutely nothing. Well, actually, it's based on a false claim that realtors are getting attacked and killed already. The Globe and Mail report on this story could have done a better job calling the realtors on their crazy claims, but goes with a more understated approach:“Easy access to information online is a huge safety issue,” said Von Palmer, the real estate board’s chief privacy officer. “There is a real possibility of break-ins and assaults; you only have to read the headlines to imagine what might happen. You hear stories about realtors getting attacked and killed. Can you imagine if we put that information out there about consumers? You can only imagine the headlines.”Also, they could just look south of the border. The information that the Canadians are now discussing putting online is, for the most part, already available online here in the US. And while I'm sure if they tried hard enough, somewhere, somehow, someone might be able to connect a real estate listing to crime, it's certainly not a common occurrence.
A spokesman for the Toronto Police Service said he wasn’t aware violence against real estate agents was a problem in the city.
It's pretty clear that the real issue is just one of control. The real estate agents benefit from being the gatekeepers to that information, and they fear what happens when people can start to route around them. A few months back, I did a talk at a real estate conference, where I compared the music industry to the real estate industry, and it was amazing just how many similarities there were between the two. They were two big legacy industries trying to hold back the tide of what the internet allows, and they were able to come up with all sorts of ridiculous scenarios to explain how horrible the world would be if the information they used to control was allowed to go free online. But it's tough to stop the free flow of information, and real estate agents will learn soon enough that a strategy of spreading FUD isn't a way to future-proof your business. Learning to adapt, and to take advantage of the spread of information by becoming an enabler rather than a gatekeeper, really is the key.
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Filed Under: canada, control, fud, listings, openness, real estate
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And the people who the realtors already ripped off will get really angry when they realize how much the realtor over charged them!
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just sell the frakin house....
and it describes this pretty well. There is an information gap that is rapidly closing because real estate agents (and the loftier realtors) can no longer hide the secret handshakes and ceromonies from the general public. Truth is, I have bought 11 houses with no agent on my side - who needs 'em? I do, however, have a real estate lawyer review everything because I don't know that secret handshake yet.
What ever happened to the Justice Dept suit against the Nat'l Association of Realtors? C.F.A.’s executive director, Stephen Brobeck said : “Because the industry functions as a cartel, it is able to overcharge consumers tens of billions of dollars a year. Consumers are increasingly wondering why they are often charged more to sell a home than to purchase a new car.” this 5 or 6 years ago...
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just sell the frakin house....
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Re: just sell the frakin house....
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Real Estate RIPE for disruption
There are ways to get into the MLS cheaper but realtors don't show these "low commission" homes.
So we sit here and basically pay a "tax" to get into the MLS so the home can sell. I'd love to be part of something BIGGER than the MLS that lets homes sell without paying this "tax". It is WAY out of line and this industry is RIPE for technological disruption. It can't happen fast enough for me.
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Re: Re: Missed Opportunities
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- Von Palmer
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So true, because such headlines could only be imagined.
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Re: just sell the frakin house....
As the flow of information increases there will be less leeching.... and MILLIONS of jobs will be lost and BILLIONS will disappear from the economy. Gawd I love that song.
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Re: Re: Re: Missed Opportunities
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I have recently just sold my place with help from a Canadian realtor and the primarily reason I believe in using a realtor is... SERVICE!
- I can continue to work and live my day to day life while they work on selling the house
- Experienced realtor already have a network of contractors, inspectors lawyers/notary to perform various function related to the sale of property. Not only that, because it's long term relationship, you don't have to worry contractors scamming you
- Experienced realtors are good SALES PERSON. Selling is a skill you learn, practice and master. Not every home owner is a good enough sales person to sale their own place for a good reasonable price.
- Realtors have their own social network that can bring people in even when times are tough. When you are buying electronics, the first thing you check is not craigslist where you can save some money buying from others directly. A lot of people would go to Best Buy or Futureshop to check it out first (and potentially buying it there). Same thing with buying a house, you would check with a realtor first.
- realtor are knowledgeable about property buying and selling. That's their profession. Buying/selling property is not like you walk into an Apple Store and pick up a MacBook. It involves land claims, estimates, taxes, mortgages, property laws...etc. You can't just wake up one morning and decides now you are an expert in properties buying/selling and start selling your house. And why waste your time learning all that tidbits which a normal person will probably use two or three times in their life time?
- good realtors also knowledgeable about locations and market trends etc which you can't just find buy reading a bunch of listings
Real estate agents provides important services, not information. Their move trying to limit the information flow of property sale is strategically idiotic. Property information is not the "choke point" of control they think it is. Increase in information flow will only drive more people to use realtors. It's like free advertising! Even if consumers received knowledge about properties, most of them can't complete the rest of the step in buying/selling anyways.
Putting listings online will not only reduce the step 1, interest buyer to a property, for realtors, they will also drive more people to come to a realtor for step 2, step 3...etc.
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You call us names and cite the search term "real estate and crime" Really? Cuz none of those 629 million is ads, crimes committed by realtors, etc. 10/10 in the FAIL dept.
Pathetic indeed.
About 298,000,000 results (0.25 seconds) FAIL
1. http://www.city-data.com/ FAIL
2. http://www.californiarealestatefraudreport.com/archives/category/real-estate-crimes FAIL
3.https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/07/nyregion/07fraud.html?_r=1 FAIL
And so on and so on. You sir/ma'am Have failed miserably.
Have a great day.
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Re: Real Estate RIPE for disruption
It seems like your 'tool' is not performing well. In that case, you need to choose better tool, not complaining the existence of the tool makes no sense.
In my area they housing market is trending a slow decline, but my realtor still manages to pull on average 1 to 2 sets of people to look at my unit every week, over the winter, when people don't traditionally buy/sell homes. Not only that, I managed to sell my property higher than similar properties in the area.
Yes, you can save the commission on the sale by doing it yourself. But you'll have to deal with advertising, negotiation, government regulation, contract law...etc all by yourself. I for one is not willing to spend too much time dealing with those. I still have to work everyday to make a living first.
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Re: Re: Re: Missed Opportunities
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So isn't the real question, "is selling it yourself better than the real estate agent you are likely to get 85% of the time?"
Perhaps you can guarantee you get an excellent rep, but most people cannot and have no frame of reference to judge their skill and maybe not even their dedication.
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Re: just sell the frakin house....
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Obviously. /s
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/dangers-real-estate-criminals-witnesses-safety-expert-keeping/s tory?id=13375723#.T2tuwvkgxaQ
Violence is quite a problem in the field. The real estate and rental and leasing occupation has seen an average of 75 deaths a year from 2003 to 2009, according to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics.
.21 per day. You have a better chance of being hit by a car.
http://www.applet-magic.com/mortality0.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicl e_deaths_in_U.S._by_year
Yes we must put a stop to this HUGE HUGE problem.
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Re:
Sorry, that's a non-sequitur if ever I saw one.
First point - just because the realtor has a relationship with someone doesn't mean that it transfers to you. In fact, it's quite the opposite - the inspector/contractor/etc. will work to keep the realtor happy because then they get more referrals.
When my wife and I bought our house, we used the inspector and lawyer recommended by the realtor. The inspector basically acted as a second salesperson for the agent.
The inspector told us (correctly) that the house only had 80-amp service, but that modern code needed 110 amp. He also said it would be grandfathered and the city wouldn't require us to upgrade it unless we made changes to the wiring, and that even though the wiring was aluminum, it was in good shape, so everything would be fine as long as we didn't add any new electrical.
What he (and the realtor) neglected to mention is that there is *no* insurance company that would insure a house with 80-amp service. And so we needed to upgrade the service. Which we couldn't do because while the wiring was in good shape, it was aluminum, and so needed to be replaced before we could upgrade the service.
Then there was the roof - the inspector told us (correctly) that the roof was approximately 20 years old and the life of the shingles was 25 to 30 years, and so would need to be replaced in a few years.
Except he neglected to mention that there is (again) *no* insurance company that would insure a house with a 20-year old roof.
And then the furnace, which had a cracked heat exchanger. He measured for leaks and said while it would last a year, he recommended the heat exchanger be replaced. Except that the insurance company insisted that since the furnace was only 80% efficient, and code required 90%, we needed to get a new one of those too.
Now, you might say "oh, it was the insurance company's fault" - except that the insurance company didn't know these problems when we bought the house (because we didn't *have* an insurance company before we bought it, and wouldn't send someone out to inspect until after we'd purchased), and the realtor's inspector did, because it was his job to know. And yet, since everything he told us was technically correct, we had no recourse. We were stuck with a house that needed extensive repairs that needed to be done within 30 days or we would be in violation of the terms of our mortgage.
All told, we had to spend around $20,000 in a month to bring the house up to code - and that's $20,0000 more than we had because we'd just purchased a house. Because the realtor's recommended inspector had more loyalty to the realtor than to us.
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Re: Real Estate RIPE for disruption
What' s preventing you from sticking a sign in the yard, putting an ad on craigslist, open it up on Sunday's so you can have strangers come through and do all the negotiations and paper work yourself?
Ahh, right your an asshole and hard do deal with..
Btw, what do you do for a living?
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Re: Real Estate RIPE for disruption
What' s preventing you from sticking a sign in the yard, putting an ad on craigslist, open it up on Sunday's so you can have strangers come through and do all the negotiations and paper work yourself?
Ahh, right your an asshole and hard do deal with..
Btw, what do you do for a living?
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Life Insurance rates
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Re: Re:
It actually sounds like your inspector gave you more information than what I was given. I tried for months afterward to get a copy of the inspection report that I never received. All I wanted to know was how the water tested out.
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When I have sold houses in the past, I only accept appointments provided by the agent. They only accept them when they know they are dealing with another agent. I don't have to deal with door knockers or random people showing up at the door.
Someone shows up at the door knocking without an appointment, I just give them the agent's number through the door and stop worrying.
I pay an agent for a reason - and yes, security is one of those things.
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Traditional Real estate companies are on the way out
Tons of photo, no issues.
Average cost to sell the home (including legeal fees) ~$550. Even had many on-line advertised open houses.
Compared to giving some Real Estate company 5.5-7% of the value of the home for a maxiumum of 8 hours of work.
Real estate companies need to move a services for a fee model rather than just a percentage. Want a on-line add - that will be $200, want a print ad - that will be $300, want an open house - that will be $500. Screen the potential buys - that will be $100 a buyer. Want help with the contract and closing negotiations - that will $1000. Etc. In some cases you might make more than the 7% and in others far less.
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Re: Re: just sell the frakin house....
You were so adamant about not paying those fee that you "had your fiance take some classes and get her RE license"? Way to man up there, buddy....
I'm thinking the fees might be the least of your worries when she wakes up to what kind of douche she's with and takes the whole thing...
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Re: Re: Real Estate RIPE for disruption
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Re: Re:
Like the above AC said, my premise is to get a good realtor.
I said earlier, realtor is like a tool. If you can't get a good tool or that your tool is not performing up to the standard doesn't make it's existence illogical/unnecessary/scam. It just means that you are not very good at picking your tools or you have bad luck and picked the lemon.
MPAA/RIAA's lawyer pisses me off greatly and they scam people. That doesn't mean all lawyers are con-artists or unnecessary or bad people.
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There are 10 sales person in your local Best Buy and they all sell TVs. According to standard bell curve, only 15% of them actually are knowledgeable about TVs and not actively scamming you. Part of your skill/luck is to pick that top 15%. If you didn't pick the right one, is it BestBuy's fault, sales person's fault, society's fault, or is it just your problem?
If you get scammed, you only have yourself to blame (usually) and people are usually not that sympathetic.
================
Anyways, if you didn't get the main point of my opinion. It is that free flow of the property market information does not hinder a realtors' business. It actually enhance it because it's DIFFERENT TYPE OF PRODUCT.
Reading stock market price and market information on newspaper is a different product than going to your financial adviser to ask for advise on investment.
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Realtor Here
My business model is based around personal service and education (teaching people the ins and outs of a real estate transaction). Maybe that means I am augmenting what they have learned online. Maybe that means I teach them so much that they will handle their next transaction on their own. I know some agents get angry when they lose a client like this. I think it is fantastic. If it happens, I have done my job well. I even have one client who went on to become a real estate agent himself because I gave him such insight into the business. Mostly though, I create happy clients who generate eager referrals for me. That's the way I build my business.
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Re: Re: Real Estate RIPE for disruption
And yes, like everything else to do with Real Estate the commission is negotiable. The agent I have working on selling my place was recommended and after working with him for a bit I can see why.
Like anything else, there are good and bad agents.
I don't see what the Toronto Real Estate Board complaining about when they provide the same information to prospective buyers that they now say is dangerous. Also, by their logic, having a For Sale sign on your house or condo is an invitation to a break in or worse. To follow through on that logic all the For Sale signs should come down pronto.
If you follow the link to the Globe and Mail story on this you'll find the Competition Board's answer to the attacks, all of which makes perfect sense to anyone but the Toronto Real Estate Board who've commissioned a poll on the issue, no doubt designed to get the answers they want to get and have gone on the offensive.
Attacks on realtors are usually high profile in the news media and it's been one heck of a long time since I've heard of one.
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Re: Realtor Here
That purchase happened some 11 years ago. This new model is very much a threat to real estate agents livelihoods. Earlier, I had made an offer on a house that had been on the market a while. After a couple of days of silence, I had to call the listing agent to find out what was happening. He said it had been sold to someone else. Their had not been any mention of multiple offers. The agent had not come back to me for a counter-offer. Since, neither the listing agent nor the seller would have earned less money in a deal with me, I have to assume the listing agent just shut me out because I was a threat to their business model and they did not want to encourage such an arrangement. Such behavior was not in the interests of the seller which they were supposedly representing.
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Re: Re: just sell the frakin house....
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Re: Re: Re: just sell the frakin house....
Of course, he did put it badly, but it sounds like they both saved a lot of money for minimal effort, so it makes sense.
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Re: Re: Real Estate RIPE for disruption
Standard commission where I am is 6%. Real estate agents don't highly consider the homes for sale at lower percentages.
While I can get on the MLS with a 1-2 percent commission the home won't be seriously considered.
This is CHANGING now that we have the aggregators showing the homes and people can find the homes faster than they can find a realtor.
The whole argument that the realtor is necessary for the inspections, offers, negotiation is specious.
I just bought a second home. I knew the seller and just drew up a simple for sale contract and took it to my bank and then chose a title company and they handled all the documents etc. It was inexpensive for the seller (Though there is still the title insurance scam) and it worked well.
I'd love to sell my other home myself. But the REALITY of the situation is that a realtor is presently a bonus convenience. I don't have to like it and I can certainly hope for a change in how things operate.
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homes for sale huntington beach
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Adding Value every step of the way
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Canadian online property sales market not as advanced as UK
It is estimated that over 80% of potential buyers in the UK now start their search for a new property online!
In addition to the standard estate agents websites this massive shift towards online search has spawned dedicated property sale portals such as http://www.rightmove.co.uk and many others.
There are also dedicated online estate agents that provide all of the services normally provided by a bricks and mortar estate agent, but at a fraction of the cost.
It would seem that Canadian estate agents are trying to delay the inevitable and protect there current market share rather than embrace new opportunities offered by online sales.
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Re: Re: just sell the frakin house....
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