Canada And Mexico Not Allowed To Observe TPP Negotations, Even Though They're Joining Them

from the shut-out dept

Tue, Jul 3rd 2012 5:15am — Mike Masnick

Remember how Canada and Mexico have been asked to join the negotiations over the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement -- and both agreed to do so? You might think that this would enable them to show up this week in San Diego and at least observe, if not actively participate in, the latest round of negotiations. No such luck. Both countries have been denied access to the negotiations as observers. This is, of course, similar to what Rep. Darrell Issa discovered after his own request -- but in that case, you can at least kind of understand, since we already know that the USTR wants to hide its negotiations from Congress. But denying two countries who are entering the negotiations? If Canada or Mexico had any self-esteem at all, this is the point where they should have walked out and said to hell with the TPP. Why should they be expected to join an agreement where secret negotiations are happening, which they're not allowed to take part in?

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Filed Under: canada, darrell issa, mexico, san diego, tpp

61 Comments

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Chilly8, 3 Jul 2012 @ 5:23am

Maybe Mexico's new president will tell the USA to piss up a rope. The PRI party, in the past, has told American to take a hike. The PRI party is not exactly known for being very cooperative towards the US government
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2012 @ 5:26am

Jesus Christ... They need to stand up and tell my government to fuck off. For some reason my government has this wild idea that they're masters of the universe.
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Coyote, 3 Jul 2012 @ 5:27am

See, Mike, where you've gone wrong is just that: expecting logical progression. They don't operate on any kind of logic, except 'if we do enough backroom deals, we'll be able to pass this through, unlike SOPA's failure or maybe ACTA's eventual failure!'

What they also fail to notice is this logical question: how are the people most affected by this agreement, or hell, the countries most affected it by it, supposed to follow it if they don't know a single damned thing about it? How do they expect this is going to work? Either they put their fingers in their ears [or rather, Hollywood's cock], scream LALALALALALA WE'RE BEING SO TRANSPARENT RIGHT NOW WE AREN'T EVEN LETTING COUNTRIES INTO THE NEGOTIATIONS, or they try to gloryhole us into taking it, even though the internet is proving to resist both its' lackluster charms and superficiously large cock. I mean, sure you can beef that up with viagra, but it isn't going to change the fact of your naturally small cock -- or in this case, naturally small support beams.

It really feels like playing Jingo except with the kid down the street who won't stop accusing you of cheating because he keeps causing the damn thing to fall. Right before he punches you in the face and then steals your jingos and your money.
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Cory of PC (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 5:27am

Summary
"Transparency? What's that?"

So we could have Congress on the action, but they can't take anything out of the room, and now Canada and Mexico getting some action on the Partnership but denied any sorts of talks into the negotiations?

Really, when are we going to see some form of transparency out of this?
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anon, 3 Jul 2012 @ 5:33am

TPP
Do they seriously think this is going to pass if they don't let anyone see it or negotiate any changes, LOL fail fail fail, if I was one of those paying bribes to get it passed i would be a little worried at this point as it looks like the treaties are being sabotaged from within.
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drew (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 5:33am

Re: Summary
So Congress isn't allowed out of the room and Canada & Mexico aren't allowed in?
Where's a good whistleblower when you need one?
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John Doe, 3 Jul 2012 @ 5:36am

Trust us
Look Canada, Mexico we love you guys, we really do. You are our neighbors after all. But you gotta trust us on this whole TPP thing. It is for your own good. We will write it, you can sign it and then you can read it. Remember what Nancy Pelosi said, you have to pass it to read it.
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Keii (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 5:42am

Re: Re: Summary
"Where's a good whistleblower when you need one?"
They've all been arrested for treason.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2012 @ 5:48am

Self Respect
They get their self respect when they spend the bribe money.
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Rikuo (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 5:58am

It's perfectly logical and reasonable for these two countries to not be allowed in. After all, they asked to, at the very least, observe NEGOTIATIONS.

What is happening here is not negotiations.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2012 @ 5:59am

and i bet you a dollar to a pinch of shit that the thick fuckers will still go along with whatever TPP and Ron Kirk comes up with, regardless of how much harm it will do to the citizens of the respective countries. why can they not see that if they are not allowed to join negotiations, those negotiations must be detrimental to them? if they are expected to just go along with the outcomes, they must be detrimental to them as well. surely to god, you dont have to be Einstein to realise this?
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Dark Helmet (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 6:01am

Re: Re: Re: Summary
"They've all been arrested for treason."

Impossible. We put the treasonous folks in Guantanimo and we know that Obama closed that cesspool of a place down. He told me so during his campaign.

I hate this administration not for what they stand for, but because THEY don't seem to stand for what they stand for....
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Chargone (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 6:05am

Re:
i have a sneaking suspicion that it is HIGHLY beneficial to those making the decisions.

given the US's past history, it's really only a question of whether it's their pocket book or life expectancy that's benefiting.

(i also find it odd that i talk about a 'pocket book'... what IS that? did we ever even have those here in NZ?)
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jilocasin (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 6:16am

The want signatories not negotiators
It all makes perfect sense if you realize that the people pushing TPP want as many countries as possible to join the _completed_ agreement. The last thing they want is anyone _outside_ of the select group _negotiating_ the silly thing.

If that was the case, they could have used any number of existing organizations (WIPO for example).

Canada and Mexico were invited to _ratify_ the TPP when it's all done. If they can get them to agree to do so (sight unseen) they are probably hoping it will put more pressure on other countries to do the same.
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The eejit (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 6:30am

Re:
Y'know, that depends on whether anyone in the US Government can wield a sword.
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The eejit (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 6:31am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Summary
Welcome to Politics.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2012 @ 6:40am

Any democratically elected politician should categorically refuse to participate in any politics which is hidden from puclic scrutiny, period. Being able to observe or participate is already one bridge too far.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2012 @ 6:43am

They Must Follow Procedure
Canada and Mexico, please assume the position, drop your trousers and be prepared. Hollywood, step up behind and prepare for insertion. GO! Hey, Canada and Mexico, just shut up and take it for pete's sake. It's not like this is new or anything.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2012 @ 6:46am

we are a post constitutional country Fuhrer Obama can do as he pleases, and the supreme court backs him up
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2012 @ 6:47am

I wonder why I keep thinking about The Mask of Red Death?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2012 @ 6:47am

we are a post constitutional country Fuhrer Obama can do as he pleases, and the supreme court backs him up
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Digitari, 3 Jul 2012 @ 6:58am

Re: Re: transparency
the transparency's will be on the overhead projector once TPP is passed for all the world to see...............
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2012 @ 7:02am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Summary
thats what happens when you let Chicago run the place.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 7:04am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Summary
Perhaps, but put my ass in charge and watch how things would work out....
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Cory of PC (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 7:12am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Summary
Is there any options to leave?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2012 @ 7:17am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Summary
The "negotiating" is being done by Los Angeles Republicans, not Chicago Democrats.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2012 @ 7:39am

Re:
Yes, because King George NEVER did anything like this. - rolls eyes - . Partisan bullshit is still bullshit.
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Jason, 3 Jul 2012 @ 7:55am

What the hell is in this thing?
What language is in the TPP that requires that no political entity that will be bound by it is even _allowed_ to READ it??

Does it forcibly enslave citizens of the countries that sign on to indentured servitude to the MPAA and RIAA? Are there mandatory daily payments from all citizens to the MPAA and RIAA?

Considering how bad the ideas they put forth in SOPA and PIPA (in public display), the TPP must be full of language and requirements that are EXTREMELY twisted and evil.
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weneedhelp (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 8:20am

which they're not allowed to take part in?
Bitch, just shut up and sign it.
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Berenerd (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 8:33am

Re:
RIAA and MPAA will have none of that...
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Berenerd (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 8:36am

Re: Re:
Just don't tell me that Michelle Obama is Teela cause that would ruin my childhood crush....
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Berenerd (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 8:39am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Summary
Mitt wont be any better, though I am not voting for either, I am voting the Pirate party...
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Johnny Canuck, 3 Jul 2012 @ 8:53am

There's a fundamental mistake in what you say.
If Canada or Mexico had any self-esteem at all, this is the point where they should have walked out and said to hell with the TPP.

You make the fundamental mistake of assuming that Canada is run by and for the Canadian people. You are wrong. Dead wrong.

That ended several years ago when an evil enemy of the people sleazed into power here on behalf of the multi-nationals (who couldn't give a flying fuck about the people, except to bilk them out of everything they have).

These evil fascists have no brains and no souls and are raping the hell out of what was once Canada.

Do you really think that sane Canadians want this horse-shit? Do you really think that sane Canadians want Alberta turned into the world's greatest environmental catastrophe just so you fucks down there can have oil for another few years?

Get serious.
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The eejit (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 9:51am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Summary
Yes. It's called "ONE OF US! ONE OF US!"
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The eejit (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 9:52am

Re:
Someone doesn't know their history...
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2012 @ 10:12am

Re: There's a fundamental mistake in what you say.
I really love these type of comments.

Do you think the Liberals ran Canada any better? There was a bunch of cronyism with them too. Sponsership scandal, bending over backwards for Quebec, gun registry, etc.

Do you think the Bloc would run the country better, or just collect all the money into Quebec and then give the rest of the country the finger?

How about the NDP? I'm sure the Union bosses won't pilfer the system and care less for the little guy.

Don't get me wrong, the Conservatives also do their fair share to screw up the country as well. But no more then the others.

The thing is, the people voted for them, stop trying to claim the other guy's votes shouldn't count because they voted for the party you dislike.

Before you pull out the whole "60% of Canadians didn't vote for them", I'd like to point out that 70% didn't want the NDP, 80% didn't want the Liberals, 94% didn't want the Bloc, and 96% didn't want the Greens.

Also as a side point, comparing the current government of Canada to "evil fascists" cheapens the actual pain and suffering of the people that actually live or have lived under that form of government.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2012 @ 10:16am

Re: Re: Re: Summary
Where is the Lemur King from Madagascar 2 when you need a hero (and a professional whistle-blower)?
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TtfnJohn (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 10:29am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Summary
Remember ObamaCare is really RomneyCare in new clothes.
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TtfnJohn (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 10:57am

We're off on the horizon, in the peanut gallery!
OK, got it out of your system now? The TP is to the right and please be sure to flush. (And not I didn't vote Tory.)

I'm gonna do the unthinkable and agree with an AC here. Stuff it already. We got the same "transparency" out of the Canada-US FTA (Mulroney) and NAFTA (Chretien) that we're gonna get here. At least, I admit we were at the table there and not in the far distant peanut gallery on the horizon.

Harper got his majority a year ago. As yet there's nothing in Ottawa to replace him. Maybe the new leader of the NDP will become that, which he's showing a lot of signs of doing. Maybe the Liberals will stop their path to self-destruction though I wouldn't bet on it.

Oh, and another shot taken at the West isn't helping your side of the debate either, along with the other caricatures you're tossing about.

Yeah, if we had an once of self respect we'd pack up and go home. We gave that up years ago with the Free Trade Agreement and NAFTA. Thing is, you know, that it wouldn't matter who was living at 24 Sussex Dr in Ottawa. We'd still be there under the same terms and conditions. It's in our interest to be there, or as close as we can to being there. One way or another we'll be stuck with it anyway.

At least, we're not as close to becoming the 51st State as England is. Not yet, anyway.
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TtfnJohn (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 11:09am

Re:
The world isn't the same as it was when the PRI were rightly tossed out. You can bet the new president of Mexico knows that. Sure, he'll play to whatever he needs to to cement his and the PRI's position which might mean making noises towards TPP and the so-called transparency. For now, Mexico is tied up in a nasty nation wide gang war that affects everyone from the a corner street vendor to the President's office in Mexico City. Lots and lots of blood all around and that's one of the nicer aspects of it. He has better, more immediate things to do.
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TtfnJohn (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 11:10am

Re: Trust us
We're used to that.

Then we'll ignore it if you don't mind.
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Cory of PC (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 11:14am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Summary
... Sorry to ask, but your behind or your professional idiot? If it's the former, I salute to it. If it's the latter... no comment.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2012 @ 11:22am

Re:
No negotiations to observe eh?

Sad, and likely very very true.
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AB, 3 Jul 2012 @ 11:36am

Re: There's a fundamental mistake in what you say.
Hey, go easy there. It's not the American people's fault any more than it is the Canadian people's fault. In fact I would even say that the American people are doing a better job fighting this crap then we are (partly because their political structure is easier to influence, but still...).
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2012 @ 11:53am

Re: We're off on the horizon, in the peanut gallery!
if we had an once of self respect

Did you mean 28.34 grams or 29.57 millilitres? =P
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TaCktiX (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 12:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Summary
No, it's his donkey, and not a Democrat-type one.
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btr1701 (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 12:10pm

Re:
> The PRI party, in the past, has told
> American to take a hike.

Great. We need more animosity between Mexican and US governments. That way when they tell us to take a hike over things like TPP, we won't feel bad about telling them to do the same when they whine about our border enforcement efforts and not giving illegals drivers licenses and the right to vote and whatnot.
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btr1701 (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 12:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Summary
> Impossible. We put the treasonous folks in
> Guantanamo and we know that Obama closed that
> cesspool of a place down. He told me so during
> his campaign.

He also told me he absolutely wasn't going to raise taxes on the middle class, and now we find out that the health care mandate is a tax, the brunt of which will impact the middle class.

He also told me he was going to end the warrantless wiretapping that was started under the Bush admin. Instead his admin has not only kept it up, but greatly expanded it.

He also told me that lobbyists would have no place in his administration, but at last count there were over 100 former lobbyists working directly for the White House (and that doesn't even include all the ones who are working in various cabinet departments).

I'm wondering if there's a campaign promise left that Obama hasn't broken.
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btr1701 (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 12:17pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Summary
> Remember ObamaCare is really RomneyCare in
> new clothes.

Not really. The latter is a state-level program which deals with very different economies of scale and was passed under a different legal framework.
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DUMBASS POLITICIANS, 3 Jul 2012 @ 12:53pm

TEAR DOWN THE WALL
fuck the usa and harper the beached american whale running canada....

mexicans ought to just shoot the man agreeign to this crap .....after all they do so over drugs easily enough...
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DUMBASS POLITICIANS, 3 Jul 2012 @ 12:58pm

@36
in some ways yes at least under chretian he had balls to stay out of iraq and had martin kept up with balls they might be in power today BUT they wavered and are now just like the conservative party that's why they got power for fear the more left leaning NDP might have got power in a vote split.
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bjupton (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 2:35pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Summary
What tax increase?

Quit listening to garbage, and get the facts. The only way that anyone is going to pay any 'tax' is if they can afford to purchase coverage and they do not.

If you have employer provided coverage, no change.
If you have Medicare, no change.

It is only those rich free riders who will be subject to a tax. Anyone paying it in the middle class is clearly insane.

But don't let some FUD stop your story.
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bjupton (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 2:37pm

Re:
Yeah, I remember when the Nazis went in and tyrannically gave the poor people health care.

You folks are seriously unhinged.
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Cory of PC (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 2:39pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Summary
*slaps head* Forgot about that! Maybe I could ask him if I could ride it when things get worse...
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That One Guy (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 2:43pm

Re:
I totally agree, negotiations involve a give and take approach, this is just a 'take take take' approach.
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 2:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Summary
"If you have employer provided coverage, no change."

Yep, and it was just coincidental that my share of the insurance payment doubled right after that law when into affect. And it's just coincidental that my manager's tripled.
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bjupton (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 4:04pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Summary
Yes, sure.

That makes perfect sense. It wouldn't be your employer deciding to pass on higher rates to their employees during a crappy labor market.

By the way, if your health plan didn't spend a sufficient amount of their premiums on care, they are forced to send rebates. Now, since yours is technically provided by your employer, the rebates would come to them. I'm sure they'll be willing to share, if you all yell loud enough.

http://www.kff.org/healthreform/8305.cfm
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abc gum, 3 Jul 2012 @ 5:57pm

Maybe Darrell Issa should start proceedings to declare the USTR in contempt of congress.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Jul 2012 @ 5:26pm

Re:
Transparency? That's a paddlin'.
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btr1701 (profile), 6 Jul 2012 @ 10:37am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Summary
> It is only those rich free riders who
> will be subject to a tax.

I had no idea I was "the rich" now. Where's my yacht?
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Nate Dunham, 20 Jan 2013 @ 9:19pm

Keep the negotiations coming
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