Australian Court: Google Must Pay Guy $200k Due To Image Search Turning Up Gangsters

from the pics-pics-pics dept

Tue, Nov 13th 2012 11:27am — Timothy Geigner

With Google still holding the search engine crown, they're obviously going to be the target of a myriad of lawsuits. Defamation has played a role in the legal life of the search giant for some time now, even though the entire basis for technology behind the search results is in what the internet community at large does, rather than any active role by Google. That's what makes this kind of thing so silly. We previously wrote about autocomplete defamation cases, for instance, in which autocompletes are generated based on common searches, but people still want to hold the search engine accountable. We also had the story about the minority owner of the Miami Heat who didn't like the fact that a picture of him doing his best dog-with-peanut-butter-in-its-mouth impression showed up in search results. But, hey, at least he was suing over a picture that actually was him.

Not so for Milorad Trkulga, an elderly man from Melbourne, Australia, who has been awarded $200,000 from Google because the search engine's image results also conjured up pictures of Tony Mokbel, an apparent "Australian gangland figure."

The images were posted after Mr Trkulja was shot in the back by an unknown gunman while eating with his elderly mother at a St Albans restaurant in June 2004. When Mr Trkulja's name was typed into Google's image search, photos had appeared of him alongside gangland figure Tony Mokbel.

From what I can gather at the following related link, Trkulja was indeed shot while at a restaurant as part of some kind of infamous gangland wars that occured in 2004, hence the bridging link to a gangster. When news publications wrote up the story, they included images of both Trkulja and Mokbel, which likely caused their pictures to show up together in a search of the former's name. Trukulja, for reasons that escape me, thought that this was defamation and took Google to court. Google argued that they weren't publishing any of the material, only indexing search results. This, apparently, did not impress the jury.

However, the jury found Google's defence of the images broke down because it did not take any steps to remove the images from its searches once Mr Trkulja's lawyers contacted the company. The jury found the search engine was not liable for the search results themselves, as Mr Trkulja had incorrectly filled out a form for reporting offensive material by not including the URL of the content to which he objected.

And this is where I go from bemused to confused, so perhaps there's an expert in Australian law out there somewhere who can help out on this one. The jury decided that Google merely indexing results doesn't matter if Trkulja asked them to take the images off of search results, even though the jury acknowledges they aren't liable for those results and find that Trkulja didn't provide the actual URLs of the pictures he wanted removed. That would be like me walking up to a random person on the street, tapping them on the shoulder, telling them I didn't like something they said once but couldn't remember exactly what it was that offended me, demanded an apology, and then got a free down payment on a mansion when said random person didn't comply.

Beyond that...what the hell? So images of gangsters showed up in image results because you got shot in Australian gangland wars (seriously, I thought you guys all fought with machetes). How is any of this a problem? I imagine that if you have an atypical name, search results of all kinds of people are going to show up in Google. Hell, let's just test it out with my own name and see what happens. I'm sure the first image result of my name, Timothy Geigner, won't be all that bad.

Oh, hell no. This injustice will not stand. Mike, get our lawyers on the phone. It's mansion time.

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Filed Under: australia, gangsters, jury, search results, secondary liability

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jakerome (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 11:31am

At least he's smiling
At least he's smiling. Even if it is a creepy smile. I get glum Geithner.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Timothy_Geithner_official_portrait.jpg/ 220px-Timothy_Geithner_official_portrait.jpg
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 11:36am

Hold on
So Dark Helmet isn't the secretary of the treasury? Wow, all this time I was wrong. Dammit, you made me vote for Obama! I want my country back!
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 11:58am

Re: Hold on
No, no. Dark Helmet IS Timothy Geithner. Google says so.
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weneedhelp (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 12:03pm

Funny funny
Another pic that shows up looks like a young young Mike Masnick.

Young Mike

Today Mike

LOL.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 12:07pm

Hmm, guess I know how to get rich quick now.

1) Move to Australia

2) Change my name to Adolf Hitler, or Joseph Stalin, or Osama Bin Laden, or some other historical figure widely viewed as evil by almost everyone for all the horrible things they did.

3) Sue google for showing images of those historical figures whenever people google my new name.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 12:08pm

Re: Funny funny
And let the rumors that I'm a false identity for Mike commence!!!!
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MrWilson, 13 Nov 2012 @ 12:12pm

Seems like Anonymous needs to google bomb image searches for the names of the jurors with pictures of jackasses or something. But then I guess they'd just sue Google over it...
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crade (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 12:15pm

Next up: Man in australia sued because when asked for directions to a store, he mentioned that it was next to Tony Mokbel's house, completely defaming the store next to Tony Mokbel's place.
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nospacesorspecialcharacters (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 12:31pm

If I ever get into the Search business...
Or if I ever build my own search engine, my takedown policy is going to be really simple and easy to use. If you contact me to complain you turn up wrongly in search results; i.e. not a picture you like, not 1st result, not results you expect, bits of your news article can be read, etc... I will remove all reference to you and your business from my search website. I will purge you from any results.

I would then require payment to be made to add any content going forward if you suddenly changed your mind at a later date.
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JoeCool (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 12:32pm

Fellin' better
Every time I start to feel down because people in other countries mock me for being an American, a story like this pops up and lifts my spirits. Thank you, Australia!! :D
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bob, 13 Nov 2012 @ 12:56pm

using machetes in australia
I find this comment crude, and ignorantly offensive.
aussies swing crocodiles at each other.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 12:59pm

Class project
If we all game the system, we should be able to push this shot of Geithner participating in a dick-measuring contest to the top of the heap. (Photo completely SFW.)
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weneedhelp (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 1:29pm

Re: Re: Funny funny
A dark alter ego that does not have awareness of each other?
I just love a good conspiracy. LOL.
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The old man in The sea, 13 Nov 2012 @ 2:12pm

Re: using machetes in australia
I have just shared with my wife the extract from the original article above and she just didn't find it funny. When I then shared your comment, she laughed and said that this was funny.
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The dude, 13 Nov 2012 @ 2:17pm

This is dark helmet?

I thought you looked like this

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Dark Helmet (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 2:20pm

Re:
Yup, link number one is me w/the puppy I'm constantly talking about (although she's nearly full grown now). I have to say, if given the choice, I'd probably prefer to look like link 2....
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technomage (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 2:29pm

lol searching for my name, I run across football players, baseball players, basketball players,race car drivers and mugshot...though none are me..So, Australia does that mean I can sue google as well for associating my name with known terrorists(nba,nfl,mlb) and gangsters?

Hell, my pic doesn't even show up on the first two pages of images...but I guess that happens when you have a very common name combination.
It is currently the fifth most common name in the United States. 1/32 of all Americans are named James (3.1%)

[Johnson] is the second most common family name in the United States after Smith. During the 1990 census, approximately 0.81 per cent of people counted had this family name.
(wikipedia)
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pyro, 13 Nov 2012 @ 2:32pm

Highly unusual...
This is HIGHLY unusual. Normally all we do here (Australia), is "ban it" or "tax it"...
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The dude, 13 Nov 2012 @ 2:36pm

Re: Re:
Well to us you will always look like number 2! (the link of course)
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umbrau44 (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 4:13pm

My search results are cluttered with results from Mark Lincoln Braun: http://www.joyboxexpress.com/sites/joyboxexpress.drupalgardens.com/files/styles/large/public/color.j pg

What if I don't like his jazz music? Do I get a big payout? :P
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 4:21pm

Beyond that...what the hell? So images of gangsters showed up in image results because you got shot in Australian gangland wars (seriously, I thought you guys all fought with machetes).

yes it's clear your in touch with the world..
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 4:23pm

Re: Highly unusual...
examples please, or "such as"?????
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 4:33pm

Re: Fellin' better
you must feel 'down' ALOT !!!!!! they dont mock you for being 'an' American ! they mock you for being "American"..

do you feel sad often because your American ?

we dont really mock you anyway, we find your more than capable of doing that to yourself.. so no need for others to do it..

it just seems to the rest of the world that if there is a right way to do something, and an American way to do it, that they usually are not the same things.

it's like the 'max power' way, there is a right way, and a wrong way and a Max Power way, (the wrong way, but faster)..
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Pseudonym, 13 Nov 2012 @ 5:01pm

Re: Highly unusual...
This isn't really that unusual. And if you actually read the details of the story, it's not entirely clear that the decision was wrong, either.

The court did not find that Google was responsible for defaming Trkulga by simply juxtaposing pictures of him with pictures of Tony Mokbel. That's the impression you'd get from the write-up.

The court found that they were responsible for refusing to break the link.

Step back a moment and think about this in the context of big data and the rise of government and corporate surveillance.

We all know the stories of people being placed on TSA watchlists, arrested, interrogated, and even tortured for having a similar name to a bad guy or being the second cousin of a bad guy.

People's actions can be chilled or even lives ruined by very tenuous associations in databases. And whether through Paul Erdos/Kevin Bacon game, the assumption that correlation is the same as causation, or plain old coincidence, data mining can uncover associations which are false or misleading, even if they are statistically significant.

Now we may argue that people shouldn't base decisions on associations made by Google's machine learning algorithms. It is, ultimately, the responsibility of the person making the decision to evaluate the strength of the evidence rationally.

Nonetheless, given that these databases exist and are used, how much responsibility should be placed on those maintaining the databases for making sure that the contents are accurate, particularly clearing up a mistake when it is pointed out? Is there additional responsibility if the database is accessible to the public?

It's a very interesting question, and I don't know the answer.
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Pseudonym, 13 Nov 2012 @ 5:22pm

Re:
Free clue for the non-Australians: Watch Underbelly. You won't regret it. It's just like The Sopranos, only bogan. And unlike The Sopranos, it actually happened.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 5:25pm

Mokbel is (was) an infamous gangster here, and Trkulja's a gangster too.

Trkulja just took advantage of our stupid courts to make some cash.

And for the record, guns are the weapon of choice for criminals here ;-) (unfortunately)
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 5:39pm

Re: Re: Highly unusual...
There is no inaccurate connection to be broken.
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Pseudonym, 13 Nov 2012 @ 5:50pm

Re: Re: Re: Highly unusual...
I lived in Carlton during the worst of the gangland wars. This is very deeply burned in the Melbourne psyche. There are so many perpetrators and victims, some of whom have hard-to-pronounce-and-remember Eastern European names, that pretty much everyone has lost count.

Someone who has actually researched this period of recent history would know that this guy was an innocent victim of the violence. However, I would argue that a moron in a hurry could easily confuse this guy with an actual gangster based on just such a juxtaposition. The line that separates "reasonable" from "unreasonable" lies somewhere between.

The connection between Muhamed Haneef and his second cousin wasn't inaccurate, either. But it was misleading and it was defamatory.

If you try hard enough, you could probably link Kevin Bacon to al Qaeda. That doesn't mean you should.
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Jeffrey Nonken (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 5:50pm

First photo I get searching for my name is some gorgeous young woman who just voted.

OMG she has a nose piercing! If she were MY daughter I TOTALLY wouldn't let her do that!

Nice dimples, though.
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G Thompson (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 8:17pm

Re: using machetes in australia
throws a drop bear dripping with vegemite at ya!!!
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G Thompson (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 8:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Highly unusual...
And don't forget the worst part.. He could turn up as a character on a new and weirder Underbelly (yeah ok.. they can't get any weirder).
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G Thompson (profile), 13 Nov 2012 @ 8:22pm

Re: Re:
And unlike The Sopranos, it actually happened.
WTF! *facepalm*

Underbelly should come with a huge notice "This is a true story... except for the 95% that isn't"

Though the first one was a bit more truthful then the rest.. Is it still banned in VIC?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 8:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Highly unusual...
I don't understand your confusion. He was a victim of the violence and because of that his name is factually related and relevant to the search term. The end.
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Pseudonym, 13 Nov 2012 @ 8:58pm

Re: Re: Re:
I was indeed referring to the first one which was probably only 5-10% untrue. That's the nature of narrative television.

(Yeah, don't get me started on Razor. I didn't make it past the third episode.)

There has been a version mostly the same as the original screened in Victoria, but you still can't buy the DVDs. But that's what BitTorrent is for.
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President Scroob, 13 Nov 2012 @ 9:08pm

Re: Re: Funny funny
I havent been on this site for about 4 years, but naturally when a large picture of Tim Geithner was on the front page, I had to read the comments. But it's amazing that this meme of you being Mike's alter ego still running as well. LOL!
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 9:18pm

Re: Re: Re:
Is it still banned in VIC?

Sort of. There were some edited episodes shown on TV but I don't think the DVD version can be sold yet due to ongoing cases. Not that I really care though. Haven't seen it and have no inclination to do so.

I don't blame Trkulga for suing. If that image of Mokbel with that hairpiece/wig/animal he was wearing when captured popped up, I'd sue too. Nobody should be allowed to see something so offensive :).
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Nov 2012 @ 9:42pm

Re:
darryl, darryl, darryl. Let's make this clear to you one more time.

Your level of intelligence will NEVER, EVER be considered to be on par with the average Australian. The best you can manage is the intelligence level of the average shitstain.
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Pseudonym, 13 Nov 2012 @ 11:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Highly unusual...
As we've seen many times over with "big brother"-style government and corporate databases, information that is technically true but misleading can be just as damaging as information that is untrue. And indeed, if you read the story, he raises several examples of real harm done to him because people think he's a gangster, when he's actually not.

(Of course, it doesn't help that he's a music promoter, which is a career which almost encourages people to think you're involved in organised crime.)

He probably wouldn't mind it if people knew that he was a victim of the gangland war (free publicity, right?), as long as people knew he was an innocent victim.

There were something like 35-40 people killed or injured in the gangland war, and only two or tree were "innocent" in the way most people think; everyone else was a gangster or associate, or a former gangster or associate. (Some had become informants.)

Everyone who followed it, and you couldn't really help following it, knows this. In the mind of the public, that means that pretty much everyone involved with the war was involved in crime.

It is true that he was a victim of the violence. However, without also pointing out that he was an innocent victim, that information is misleading.
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Pseudonym, 13 Nov 2012 @ 11:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Highly unusual...
Underbelly: Don't Be Evil
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Rekrul, 13 Nov 2012 @ 11:26pm

Did Trkulja also sue the news organizations that put his photo next to Morkbel's?
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Nov 2012 @ 1:33am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Highly unusual...
i like the story about when europeans first came to Australia, and asked the local people "what is that animal" ??

There reply was "what the fuck are you talking about??" which translated was "Kangaroo"
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Niall (profile), 14 Nov 2012 @ 2:15am

Re:
Isn't he also going to find that he has Streisanded his name in juxtaposition with that gangster for ever after?
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timmaguire42 (profile), 14 Nov 2012 @ 4:02am

I've google searched my name before, but never an image search
Mostly flowers for some reason. Very few people, none of whom are me. Can I sue?

Strangely, while I did not appear, my father in law did. Turned out to be from his obituary, which mentions me. That's my highest ranking--someone else's obituary. Can I sue over that?
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Dark Helmet (profile), 14 Nov 2012 @ 6:22am

Re: I've google searched my name before, but never an image search
Are you 100% certain that you're not dead?
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Nov 2012 @ 12:01pm

I apologize for this. It's just one of my pet peeves. I just can't help myself. Bemused and Confused are synonyms. I know I know, pedantic me. But, I want people to know this!
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Pseudonym, 14 Nov 2012 @ 4:39pm

Re: Re:
This isn't a Streisand situation. This guy is a music promoter, and the free publicity (and the chance to tell his story) may have been one of the motivations for suing in the first place.
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Sheogorath (profile), 2 Sep 2013 @ 7:51pm

I found you!
Not the first result in Google Images, but on the first page of results nevertheless. An image of the man inside the Dark Helmet can be seen at this link.
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Milo, 1 Nov 2015 @ 5:27am

any
any
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