Desperate To Sew Up TPP Negotiations At Any Cost, Politicians Agree All Future Meetings Will Be Completely Secret

from the slap-in-the-public's-face dept

Tue, Sep 3rd 2013 11:00pm — Glyn Moody

We've been reporting for several years about the extraordinary levels of secrecy surrounding the TPP negotiations, where little information was released about what was going on, and there were few opportunities for representatives of civic and other groups to meet with negotiators to present their point of view. More recently, there have been some indications that this lack of transparency is fuelling increasing discontent among some of the participating nations.

In order to get the trade deal sewn up by the end of this year, and before resistance spreads further, the negotiators have decided to hold 'inter-sessional' meetings for the remaining unresolved areas. But as this article from Scoop explains, these won't be like routine TPP meetings, with their routinely unhelpful levels of opacity:

Detective work indicates that informal 'inter-sessional' meetings on six chapters are scheduled within the next four weeks -- all in North America.

' "Inter-sessional" is a misnomer', says Professor Kelsey, 'because they are not planning any more formal sessions. There will be no access for the media or stakeholders to these smaller meetings.'

'Past inter-sessionals have been shrouded in secrecy to ensure we can't find out what's happening and we don't have access to those negotiators who see value in talking with us.'

'The last three years of the TPPA have been widely condemned for their lack of transparency. The process is now going further underground'.

That is, rather than opening up TPP in response to widening criticisms, its negotiators will now be meeting in complete secret, presumably until they emerge with some kind of a deal, however bad. Since no information will be released about those gatherings behind closed doors, and there will be no opportunities to convey concerns to the participants, the public in whose name all these talks are taking place will have no way of knowing what is going on or of offering its views. It's the ultimate in arrogant, "we know best" negotiations where citizens are expected to accept what is given, no discussion allowed.

The last time this approach was used on this scale was for ACTA, which was ultimately rejected, largely because the European public took to the streets to express its outrage at the contempt being shown towards it by the negotiators. Interestingly, in Colombia people are already taking to the streets to protest against the effects of free trade agreements with the US, Europe and Canada, at least in part. Do the governments participating in the now-secret TPP negotiations really want to risk the same happening in their own countries?

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Filed Under: intellectual property, negotiations, secrecy, tpp, transparency, ustr

36 Comments

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Reader Comments

The First Word

“

ACTA fell primarily because the commission was goating the parliament with obscure and never before used procedures. Most parties were pissed already, when the opposition towards ACTA gained steam. There were a few parties who changed or got an official opinion during the parliamentary work, which made ACTA fall.

Secrecy during negotiation is not bad if it is closed to every external influence and there will be a real work done on the legal effects of TPP. In absess of those, secrecy is a sign of complete resignation from politicians. They have no idea about how to handle the industry influence or public perception. Secrecy and fast-track procedures are signs of irresponsible politicians who lack fundamental understanding of what is going on and how to discuss it without pissing away their campaign money by offending sponsors or answering to the public/their district.

—Anonymous Coward

”

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Vincent Giannell, 3 Sep 2013 @ 11:13pm

"Do the governments participating in the now-secret TPP negotiations really want to risk the same happening in their own countries?"

They probably would because they're sick and tired of people protesting against the TPP and they might try to outlaw protesting against trade agreements. They'll do anything to get what they want even if it means having protestors arrested or killed to do it too.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Sep 2013 @ 11:13pm

Secrets?
Ummm... Maybe we could ask the NSA what the negotiators are up to. Or maybe AT&T...
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Josef Anvil (profile), 4 Sep 2013 @ 12:14am

Who says politicians don't learn from the internet???
TPP negotiation routes around transparency.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2013 @ 12:17am

In the spirit of closed negotiations
The citizens of said countries should really plan their protests in secret and execute the protest in a manner not in keeping with the wishes of the government. These protests should be strictly aggressive, support only the views of the populace and never back down unless they get their own way.

The citizens should ensure that secret secure communications are always used, tracing of said protestations is not possible and anyone found to be leaking information about such organized protests is dealt with harshly.
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ECA (profile), 4 Sep 2013 @ 12:18am

LIST
LIST TO LEGISLATORS WHO VOTED THIS...
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Charlie, 4 Sep 2013 @ 12:31am

Australia
You know what shits me the most about this? We have elections coming up THIS WEEKEND and we can't even vote OUT the party who agreed to join the TPP in the first place, becasue, as far as I know, BOTH parties are for it! Not that either party have mentioned it in their campaign.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2013 @ 12:54am

TPP negotiators learned from the NSA: hide everything, shut out any oversight and most importantly - the public is the enemy.
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That One Guy (profile), 4 Sep 2013 @ 1:12am

How's that saying go again?
'If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide'?

While a rubbish argument in most cases, I think in this case it's pretty clear that the reason for the total silence is due to the negotiators having plenty to hide regarding what exactly they are fitting in there, in fear that if the public knew what was being negotiated 'in their name', they would protest loud and publicly against the terms.
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any moose cow word, 4 Sep 2013 @ 1:35am

Re: In the spirit of closed negotiations
If we were to do that, we'd be branded as terrorist, but when they do it, it's for economic security.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2013 @ 3:54am

Re: Australia
Could always vote for one of the other parties? However much good that would or wouldn't do.

Here in NZ we'd pretty much be shot of national by now if the media didn't keep spinning it as a US style two party presidential race and constantly spamming polls showing national winning by itself. (Something like 1/3rd of voters didn't bother as a result, and they Still didn't manage it.)

Media, it should be noted, which is roughly 50/50 NZ government owned and American corporate interest owned.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2013 @ 3:59am

Re: Re: In the spirit of closed negotiations
Everything is terrorist to them, including existing.
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Marak, 4 Sep 2013 @ 4:29am

I didnt think id get to the point where i would say this but, its America pushing around other countries again, no surprise there.
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Jay (profile), 4 Sep 2013 @ 4:50am

Yo Dawg
I swear this is like WWI all over again...

But now, we SEE how opaque and obtuse these proceedings are being in order to promote private interests over the public good.

And the entire point of this is to make it even LESS transparent?

I swear, there seems to be a Yo Dawg meme around here...
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CopyAndPasteProgrammer (profile), 4 Sep 2013 @ 5:00am

Secret Treaty
I am not sure GMO based food is in the best interest of the people of any country. Monsanto wants to control the world's food supply through GMO patents. This is our business and no country should tolerate a secret treaty for trade which includes food.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2013 @ 5:06am

And they want people to respect the rule of law, when the laws are a scam?
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Capt. Underpants, 4 Sep 2013 @ 5:06am

You see, this is the best thing about a representative government - they actually represent the wishes of their constituents (the people in their district, not their campaign contributors).

..... oh wait - no, that is in bizarro america.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2013 @ 5:17am

ACTA fell primarily because the commission was goating the parliament with obscure and never before used procedures. Most parties were pissed already, when the opposition towards ACTA gained steam. There were a few parties who changed or got an official opinion during the parliamentary work, which made ACTA fall.

Secrecy during negotiation is not bad if it is closed to every external influence and there will be a real work done on the legal effects of TPP. In absess of those, secrecy is a sign of complete resignation from politicians. They have no idea about how to handle the industry influence or public perception. Secrecy and fast-track procedures are signs of irresponsible politicians who lack fundamental understanding of what is going on and how to discuss it without pissing away their campaign money by offending sponsors or answering to the public/their district.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2013 @ 5:34am

Re:
"Secrecy during negotiation is not bad if it is closed to every external influence"

This will work out great when the negotiating members are industry goons. Yup, no problem here.

"signs of irresponsible politicians who lack fundamental understanding "

Bingo
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The Real Michael, 4 Sep 2013 @ 5:38am

The legacy corps disregard the will of the people, yet our government gives them enough leeway to pretty much do whatever they please, like a bunch of spoiled rotten brats. No matter how much they've got, it's never enough.

They act in secrecy because their actions conflict with the interests of the greater good. They are motivated purely by greed and selfish desire. We should demand full access to whatever they're agreeing upon in our name. They shouldn't have the right to shut us out and then inflict their will upon us.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2013 @ 5:55am

everything about TPP is as bad as it was in ACTA, probably even worse if the truth is ever known. the most troubling piece of information from the report above though, to me is that the meetings are going to be held in the North America! the only reason for this can be so there is difficulty in voting against the proposals etc but also to ensure that the entertainment industries and Hollywood will be able to put the worst of the worst of conditions in place to ensure that the public are deemed as criminals from day one, that they can be sued at the drop of a hat, have almost no way of refuting any charges or being able to produce evidence of innocence and being kicked off the internet!! the last one is the important one because the thick fuckers in these industries still think that the less people there are on the net, the more they will go back to buying cinema tickets and dvds/blurays. every other use of the internet for people is going to be completely ignored, just as long as those industries get what they want!! instead of going down this road, they need to be forced to do what customers want and governments, instead of doing what businesses demand should be doing what the electorate says!!
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PopeRatzo (profile), 4 Sep 2013 @ 6:19am

Too late for all that
It's too late to deal with the TPP through regular political means. As we've learned from ACTA, only mass protests and civil disobedience makes any difference.

There's only two ways this can go: badly for them or badly for us. The economic elite have shown that their only interest is in making sure people who don't have wealth never get any.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2013 @ 6:26am

I'll be specifically breaking any international laws they draft during this period, because this kind of shit doesn't fly with me.
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slinkySlim, 4 Sep 2013 @ 7:01am

Nothing Good Can Come From This
Death To The TPP

and if there did happen to contain some goodness therein its demise shall be deemed the responsibility of the "negotiating" parties for secretly negotiating in the name of the public the deeds, means and methods for corporate and government takeover of said public.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2013 @ 7:40am

Lets face it, the very existence of patents is just as much a sham as the existence of copy'right' law. These laws are a complete sham and shouldn't even exist and their alleged justification is as out of touch with reality as the current state of these laws and the secrecy behind them. Those attempting to justify these laws are the same people responsible for their current state and the secrecy revolving around them and these people are liars. There is no justification for IP laws. Abolish them, completely.
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caviaremptor (profile), 4 Sep 2013 @ 7:49am

So many things a war can obfiscate like TPP and the Septaper untaper. Real economic numbers awful. The Fed runs out of wiggle room to cook the books mid October.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2013 @ 9:27am

Re:
"and being kicked off the internet!! the last one is the important one because the thick fuckers in these industries still think that the less people there are on the net, the more they will go back to buying cinema tickets and dvds/blurays. every other use of the internet for people is going to be completely ignored, just as long as those industries get what they want!! "

The government will go along with this, though. Regardless of whether people buy more DVDs/Blurays, keeping people off the net will keep them away from any news reporting worth a toss. No more reading Techdirt. No more reading any other internet news sites and finding out the truth about what the governments and corporations are up to. Just 24/7 mainstream media news that rarely reports on anything more substantial than the latest celebrity disgrace and never reports on anything without self-censorship and complete adherence to the pre-approved Party line.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2013 @ 9:52am

No one can really get kicked off the internet. Just get up on the roof and swing a Yagi antennae and choose from your wide selection of wifi open networks.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
riii, 4 Sep 2013 @ 12:04pm

Can anything be done to end TPP if it passes?
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2013 @ 1:03pm

No legislation without representation!
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Sep 2013 @ 2:07pm

i will bet you anything you like, there will be a massive attendance to these meetings by Hollywood and the rest of the US entertainment industries. i also bet what you like that the threats will be flowing thick and fast at any country that refuses to stand up against what those industries want to do to prosecute people, to sue people, to bankrupt and to imprison people, all over the sharing of a movie or song. fucking tossers!!
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Rekrul, 4 Sep 2013 @ 3:22pm

Since no information will be released about those gatherings behind closed doors, and there will be no opportunities to convey concerns to the participants, the public in whose name all these talks are taking place will have no way of knowing what is going on or of offering its views.

In what world do you live? Deals like this are negotiated solely for the benefit of the corporations.
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Hephaestus (profile), 4 Sep 2013 @ 8:18pm

I wonder if Edward snowden had access to the TPP negotiations.
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observer, 5 Sep 2013 @ 10:04am

NSA
Secrets to the rest of the of the parties except full knowledge to the US counterparts - NSA = NO Secrets Anymore.
How to negotiate with someone who knows your moves...
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CopyAndPasteProgrammer (profile), 5 Sep 2013 @ 12:16pm

Secret Treaty
Trade treaty without public review should be rejected.
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Alan8, 6 Sep 2013 @ 7:11am

Re: Australia
"...as far as I know, BOTH parties are for it!"

The Green Party runs in virtually every country on the planet, and they are solidly AGAINST the TPP. They don't accept corporate money, and they represent CITIZENS' interests -- not corporate interests.

Your Green votes send a message to the corrupt parties that selling out their citizens to corporate interests will cost them votes.

And this message is sent even if the Greens you vote for lose.
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OH, 8 Sep 2013 @ 8:27am

The worthless rich are always whining, nobody appreciates us, we invented electricity, we invented engineers, and nobody is aware how special and worthwhile we are. We don't get worshipped enough - maybe it's because you're inventing your brilliant improvement for mankind in secret?
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