Rand Paul Files Lawsuit Against The NSA While Peter King Questions His Party's Loyalty To The Surveillance State

from the NSA-swiftly-shooting-up-'America's-favorite-defendant'-chart dept

Wed, Feb 12th 2014 3:19pm — Tim Cushing

Shortly after the first Snowden leak back in June of last year, Sen. Rand Paul threatened to file a class action lawsuit against the government for its surveillance of American citizens. This move, while interesting, seemed to be less useful than actually trying to reform the NSA using the legislative process. Nonetheless, Paul was apparently serious and has officially filed his lawsuit in the DC federal court, naming President Obama, NSA head Keith Alexander, ODNI Director James Clapper and FBI Director James Comey as defendants.

“There’s a huge and growing swell of protest in this country of people who are outraged that their records are being taken without suspicion, without a judge’s warrant and without individualization,” Paul said at a news conference outside the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia…

“I’m not against the NSA, I’m not against spying, I’m not against looking at phone records,” Paul said. “I just want you to go to a judge, have an individual’s name and [get] a warrant. That’s what the Fourth Amendment says.”

It seems like a simple enough requirement. Targeted warrants have long been used for investigations, and there's no reason to believe they simply don't work anymore. The nation's investigative and security agencies have just become accustomed to circumventing this aspect of the Fourth Amendment.

Rand Paul and an untold number of others will be represented by Ken Cuccinelli, former Virginia attorney general, who explains why Paul's lawsuit is different than the dozens of others that have been filed in the wake of Snowden's leaks.

“This case is, first of all, the only case that is strictly challenging the Fourth Amendment elements of the telephone metadata gathering,” Cuccinelli said. “Second of all, this will be certified later in the case as a class action, on behalf of all Americans. The other cases thus far are on behalf of individual plaintiffs … that does not provide relief for every American using telephones. This case will.”

This filing has prompted angry comments (of course) from terrorist appeaser (and current Congressman) Peter King ([sigh] of course.)

Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) expressed anger Wednesday that Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) is slated to file a lawsuit against President Obama and other officials over National Security Agency surveillance…

“I think that has really hurt the country,” King said of the leaks on MSNBC. “That is why I am so angry that Rand Paul is bringing this lawsuit today.”

King went on to question whether his party should have Snowden sympathizers in its ranks.

“And let's just say as Republicans ... do we really want people in our party somehow saying they don’t know whether he is a patriot or not? ... Who actually put him in the same classification as the director of national intelligence?”

These questions presumably received no answer other than a saddened headshake from King himself. It looks as though there's only one way to be a Republican these days, and that's to be in total servitude to the surveillance state. Even questioning King's assertion that Snowden is a traitor is bad for ~~America~~ ~~the Republican party~~ ~~King's normally boyishly exuberant outlook on life~~ the current legislative majority, as envisioned by pro bono NSA flack, Peter King.

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Filed Under: james clapper, james comey, keith alexander, nsa, odni, peter king, rand paul

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silverscarcat (profile), 12 Feb 2014 @ 2:40pm

Taking all bets guys!
Who thinks that Peter King is going to be outed after this year?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Feb 2014 @ 3:35pm

I wonder how Peter King managed to say that...
...while he was on his knees "servicing" the NSA?

(Profane and insulting? Yes. That's intentional. Don't you think he deserves to be mocked and humiliated?)
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Mason Wheeler (profile), 12 Feb 2014 @ 3:39pm

�I�m not against the NSA, I�m not against spying, I�m not against looking at phone records,� Paul said. �I just want you to go to a judge, have an individual�s name and [get] a warrant. That�s what the Fourth Amendment says.�

Oy. That actually makes sense. You know things are seriously screwed up when the libertarian nutcases are the ones talking sense...
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krolork (profile), 12 Feb 2014 @ 3:41pm

We need a revolution.
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edpo, 12 Feb 2014 @ 3:58pm

Re: Paul Quote
I agree. I also thought this was a good quote that shows just how simple this issue actually should be:

�I�m not against the NSA, I�m not against spying, I�m not against looking at phone records,� Paul said. �I just want you to go to a judge, have an individual�s name and [get] a warrant. That�s what the Fourth Amendment says.�
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shanen (profile), 12 Feb 2014 @ 4:10pm

Neo-GOP intellectual integrity = NIL
Rand Paul is supposed to be one of the most principled members of the neo-GOP. I wanted to say "thinkers", but no evidence he's ever moved an inch beyond his childhood indoctrination.

The problem here is that these NSA/CIA attacks on the Constitution are NOT a partisan issue, but a systemic dysfunction. There are so-called Republicans (no relation to Abe Lincoln or Teddy's GOP) who are just as liable and deserving of inclusion in this so-called lawsuit as anyone currently in the government. Actually, I'd say that the big dick Cheney and the big don Rumsfeld are probably the most culpable, and we can debate about whether or not Dubya has any liability for being such an ignorant clown.

I'm not saying the named defendants don't deserve being sued, but leaving off the neo-GOP culprits makes into a trivial partisan witch hunt. So much for Rand Paul's so-called principles.
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Just Sayin', 12 Feb 2014 @ 4:14pm

In a related story...
Rand Paul today agreed that he will never be President of the US, as he no longer has the support of his party or the people. Even his Father may not be talking to him after his latest publicity stunt.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Feb 2014 @ 4:19pm

Re: Neo-GOP intellectual integrity = NIL
This case seeks purely prospective relief in the form of declaratory judgment and injunctive relief. For this type of relief, suing former officials is simply not an option. The action must be brought against the current office holders in their official capacity.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Feb 2014 @ 4:21pm

Re: Taking all bets guys!
Outed, or ousted?
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That One Guy (profile), 12 Feb 2014 @ 4:24pm

Re: Re: Paul Quote
Just shows how screwed up things have gotten, that 'I want the government and it's agencies to obey the Constitution' even needs to be said.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Feb 2014 @ 4:28pm

i dont understand how anyone supposedly representing those who are supposed to be free people in a supposedly democratic country, can actually think for one second that it's ok to spy on everyone, everywhere, including your own citizens in your own country, in any and every situation, without the slightest reason to! what the fuck does he think there are laws in place for? so he can wipe his ass on them? he better hurry up with that cause i can see him not being reelected!
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Not That Chris (profile), 12 Feb 2014 @ 4:53pm

Probably Dumb Questions
So while I can appreciate the reasoning behind the lawsuit, I have a couple of probably dumb questions that maybe someone can answer:

1) If a member of the Legislative branch believe a member of the Executive has violated the law, is that not what impeachment proceedings are for? Or is the reason for the lawsuit outside of impeachment to include people beyond the president? Or because there's a snowball's chance of the Senate confirming an impeachment?

2) Should there not be more people involved in this lawsuit? The laws that are being operated under were approved by Congress. The Patriot Act, NDAA, and all the other pieces of legislation have come up several times now for renewal and been readily OK'd.

3) I've seen comments elsewhere that this is pretty much farting in the wind (or grandstanding, depending on how you want to phrase it) as there's enough precedent that a "no standing" ruling is all that will come of this. What is the actual likelihood of this going anywhere?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Feb 2014 @ 5:18pm

One of the problems is that there are parties. There shouldn't be parties.
Vote issues, not sides.
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Anonymous, 12 Feb 2014 @ 5:20pm

"I'm not against the NSA, I'm not against spying...". Well, I am. So f*** them and f*** you Rand.
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Anonymous, 12 Feb 2014 @ 5:22pm

Re: Re: Taking all bets guys!
Either way...
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Feb 2014 @ 5:34pm

as envisioned by pro bono NSA flack, Peter King.

I'm sorry, but you just can't fling around these wild accusations and assertions. What proof do you have that he is pro bono?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Feb 2014 @ 5:47pm

Re:
The problem is that most politicians are liars, promising one thing and delivering the complete opposite. We couldn't have elected a more anti-surveillance-state candidate than Obama, and just look where that got us.
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DOlz (profile), 12 Feb 2014 @ 6:36pm

Rep. King, can I be a Republican?
�And let's just say as Republicans ... do we really want people in our party somehow saying they don�t know whether he is a patriot or not? ... Who actually put him in the same classification as the director of national intelligence?�

I agree with this. There no way that Snowden should be in the same classification as that treasonist anti-American James Clapper.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Feb 2014 @ 6:59pm

Re: Probably Dumb Questions
1) This is to change the system. You impeach Obama, the NSA keeps running as is under Bidden. You impeach Keith Clapper, same thing. This way, they have to change the system, or show blatant disrespect for the law.

2) See point 1, this is not to get anyone into any trouble, it's an attempt to force the legal system to alter the rules (or really, enforce them)

3) How the hell do you say he has no standing? The NSA has admitted to spying on people, Congress included, so he has standing. Simply put, since the NSA admits to it, he has standing to challenge it. And he has enough resources to go all the way to the supreme court, if necessary.
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rapnel, 12 Feb 2014 @ 7:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Taking all bets guys!
Playing for both teams?
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Mark, 12 Feb 2014 @ 8:00pm

Google worse than NSA
Why is it that everyone has a problem with the NSA, but they don't seem to have a problem with Google? Google violates your privacy by scanning your calendar, posts, files, email, etc., and by tracking your browsing history. Plus they keep track of all of your search results and build profiles about you. This is just as extensive (if not more) than what the NSA does. Everyone who cares about privacy should check out some of the new privacy-based services that have started to pop up: Ravetree, HushMail, DuckDuckGo, etc.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Feb 2014 @ 8:03pm

do we really want people in our party somehow saying they don�t know whether he is a patriot or not?

More call for either you are on the same ideas as us or you don't belong in our party type claims. That some how if you support the party, there is no room for disagreement with it's entire principals. It's like saying if you believe in religion, you should support Jim Jones actions with his flock. Maybe not such a bad idea as the majority do not hold with all the ideology of either party. More and more people are disassociating themselves with being identified with either party, choosing to be independent instead on their voter registrations.

There is a reason why people have so little faith in the congress critter ever doing the right things for their country or the government for that matter. It doesn't appear to be getting better.
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Lurker Keith, 12 Feb 2014 @ 8:52pm

Re: Google worse than NSA
As is always pointed out, I don't have to use Google. I don't have to give Google my info, or even real info (I do my best to avoid using my real name online. For example, my name is not Keith).

The NSA, on the other hand, forcefully steals all that info in violation of Constitutional guidelines intentionally put in place at the founding of the US to prevent this kind of thing. & there's nothing most Americans can do about it; it happens regardless of what you do.
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Lurker Keith, 12 Feb 2014 @ 8:55pm

rephrase...
�I think the NSA has really hurt the country,� said everyone else. �That is why we are so glad that Rand Paul is bringing this lawsuit today.�
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Feb 2014 @ 9:04pm

Re: Neo-GOP intellectual integrity = NIL
There's something peculiar I have seen inside an old dictionary, I'll scan it if necessary. It's from an old Webster's Unabridged dictionnary, at the end you know how they have an encyclopedic part? They list american presidents till then ( I think up to Bush Sr) and their religious affilations. Well Abe Lincoln and Andrew Jackson are right in a row and their religious affiliation says "Nonmember".

Makes one think...
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Feb 2014 @ 10:56pm

Re: Probably Dumb Questions
Prepare for a false-flag attack on US soil if this lawsuit gets traction and it looks like Paul might win. His dad really taught him a lot of things about honesty and other by-default smarts-used for good. Mostly, there's a creepy part about them, but I think their religious fundamentalism is harmless, globally at least. They don't want to bomb countries out there who are of no threat to the US because the president was voted in by a 15-20% of crazies who want to speed up "revelations".
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ethorad (profile), 12 Feb 2014 @ 11:07pm

You said it ...
As King says: "Who actually put [Snowden] in the same classification as the director of national intelligence?�

Um. Nobody.

One is a traitorous weasel who has betrayed their oath to the constitution and thereby harmed the American people, and the other is in enforced exile in Russia.
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Lurk-a-lot (profile), 13 Feb 2014 @ 1:11am

Re: Neo-GOP intellectual integrity = NIL
So you are saying that people outside of the chain of command should have also be included in the lawsuit, just for supporting the spying? How would that work then?
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Donglebert the Needlessly Obtuse, 13 Feb 2014 @ 1:23am

Re: Re: Google worse than NSA
Chicken Song reference perhaps?
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David, 13 Feb 2014 @ 1:43am

Re: You said it ...
Yeah, the amusing thing is that he wrote �do we really want people in our party somehow saying they don�t know whether he is a patriot or not? ... Who actually put him in the same classification as the director of national intelligence?� which implicitly would place Clapper in the category �patriot�.

He is anything but that. He is a weaseling liar, bullshitting and equivocating and lying and perjuring congress (which is representing the people, namely those a patriot should strive to serve and respect). He'll do what's in his means to increase his wealth and influence and powers, against the U.S. constitution, against his oaths, against his job description.

And he tries to corrupt, blackmail, and grease the decision makers (those who expend the money of the American people) with the illicit power he obtained.

He is actively trying to destroy what the U.S. stands for in return for personal gains.

That's not a patriot. There is no enemy of the country more dangerous than his ilk. And if he is not stopped, everything that the U.S. once stood for will be lost.

He is building everything needed for the rise of a new Hitler, and with everything in place, a new Hitler will be easy to find and fast-tracked. The collapsing Republican party would be a good breeding place for one, but it's not the Democrats don't have their own runner-ups.
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Sunhawk (profile), 13 Feb 2014 @ 2:35am

And let it be repeated as often as possible that Peter King supported the IRA.

"If civilians are killed in an attack on a military installation, it is certainly regrettable, but I will not morally blame the IRA for it." - Peter King

(from his wikipedia page)
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avideogameplayer, 13 Feb 2014 @ 3:23am

I had a thought about suing the NSA for copyright infringement for all those emails they scoop up...

If the MAFIAA can get away with that bull crap, it's worth a shot...

And screw the ISPs via secondary liability for letting the NSA just collect the info...

I know, too crazy of an idea...
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2014 @ 3:49am

What happens to justice when the government tries to hide the bad guys abusing the system?

I don't think those elected people understand what they are doing to a great nation.

Criminals are criminals it shouldn't matter if they work at MacDonald's or the NSA. The cavalier attitude of the current and past administration is appalling.
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Rabbi josiah, 13 Feb 2014 @ 4:09am

Constitutional provisions
What is not understood is this country by the assuming democrats (socialists r communists) is a Republic NOT a democracy. The Republic is GOVERNED BY LAWS a democracy is MOB RULE
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2014 @ 4:12am

Solution is simple: cut the damn budget for NSA crimes!
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David, 13 Feb 2014 @ 4:39am

Re:
I had a thought about suing the NSA for copyright infringement for all those emails they scoop up...

It's fair use. Mostly educational: they use it to learn about what you are doing, and archive it for future generations of the U.S.: there will be no family without NSA members, for whatever gets said or written is worth listening to.

Think of it as a big "library of congress". There will be layers of library cards depending on who has earned or bought himself the rights to superveil and blackmail who.

This is what the modern U.S.A. stands for: equal rights and opportunity for every dollar.
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Pragmatic, 13 Feb 2014 @ 6:08am

Re: Re: You said it ...
Race, gender, and histrionic nationalism are indeed features of the current GOP, but they're not planning a Hitler. That's too easy to spot. What they're actually planning is already in the works or already in place...

To wit, the seizure of the levers of power via the administrative departments, which is why, despite their frantic assertions to the contrary, they're not about small government at all, just cutting welfare and services.

They're also in bed with the MIC and trans-national corporations to keep the money flowing in.

They're also very hawkish.

So what you will find is not one glorious leader whose portrait will grace every American home (or else!), but a slew of authoritarians who got in on religion, gun rights, or promises of smaller government who will then begin to tighten the screws to maintain the revolution that Krolork keeps calling for. They're already dissing democracy, claiming that it doesn't work, etc.

And that's not even the main problem. These people could do nothing without a dedicated base of supporters who will join right in because they think they're on the winning team - and that we must be liberal socialists because we don't agree with them.

When your right to speak goes up in flames with the rest of the Bill of Rights, will you value it then? The real threat has always been on the far right. The Democrats are useless corporate suckups and won't help us so we're best off voting for third parties and avoiding the partisan trap.
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Pragmatic, 13 Feb 2014 @ 6:09am

Re: Constitutional provisions
@ David, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about.
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Pragmatic, 13 Feb 2014 @ 6:09am

Re: Constitutional provisions
@ David, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2014 @ 6:21am

Re:
Words are cheap.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2014 @ 6:23am

Re: Neo-GOP intellectual integrity = NIL
"So much for Rand Paul's so-called principles"

He is just another bigot
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2014 @ 6:25am

Re: Probably Dumb Questions
Not again - another impeachment idiot running around spewing the latest thing they heard on talk radio.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2014 @ 6:28am

Re: Taking all bets guys!
If we're speculating about blackmail material I suspect Peter King is beyond simple "closeted gay homophobic politician" and into the realm of far worse. Molesting young boys perhaps?

Then again every time I see them not taking action against blatant abuses of power I begin to suspect progressively worse blackmail material. I'm running out of potential horrific secrets.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2014 @ 6:30am

Re: Google worse than NSA
Why is it that you continue to goog-bash with the same old ridiculous comparisons?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2014 @ 6:37am

�And let's just say as Republicans ... do we really want people in our party somehow saying they don�t know whether he is a patriot or not? ... Who actually put him in the same classification as the director of national intelligence?�

Snowden isn't in the same classification as the director of national intelligence. Snowden is a patriot. The director is a traitor.
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ahow628 (profile), 13 Feb 2014 @ 6:38am

Re: Rep. King, can I be a Republican?
"I knew Edward Snowden. Edward Snowden was a friend of mine. Mr. Clapper, you're no Edward Snowden."
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ltlw0lf (profile), 13 Feb 2014 @ 7:17am

Re: Re: Probably Dumb Questions
Not again - another impeachment idiot running around spewing the latest thing they heard on talk radio.

You know, a few years ago I'd agree with you. Those talk radio guys are wacko and wrong most of the time. But over the last couple years, they've been wacko and right. Kinda hard to call someone a wacko when what they are spewing is hitting the mark based on material generated by the government and released through official or unofficial means after they said it. They may still be wrong most of the time, but hit a couple truths and people start to believe you.

Not so long ago we would have been calling them prophets or truthsayers or readers.
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Seegras (profile), 13 Feb 2014 @ 7:55am

Re: Re: Probably Dumb Questions
"impeachement idiot"?

If running roughshod over millions of US citizens by unconstitutionally spying on them, justifying it by secret court orders from secret courts, and constantly lying to the public about it is not enough, I wouldn't know what more a government would need to do to justify impeachment.

Probably getting a blowjob by an intern would do it.
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Seegras (profile), 13 Feb 2014 @ 8:00am

Re:
Nope. the NSA does not violate copyright. Since copyright is NOT about copying things for yourself, but about PUBLISHING.

And since the NSA does not publish, it can't violate copyright.

It might violate the DMCA, though, by trying to break encryption that "protects copyrighted content" ;)
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2014 @ 11:00am

Re: In a related story...
Well, how do you explain the fact that the RNC itself has aligned themselves with these same positions? That would seem to indicate that he is actually the one who has the support of the party and people like King and Rogers are the outliers.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2014 @ 11:07am

Re: Re:
Nope. the NSA does not violate copyright. Since copyright is NOT about copying things for yourself, but about PUBLISHING.

Not exactly true. Copying something you already have and are legally entitled to for yourself doesn't violate copyright. Copying something that is under copyright that you aren't legally entitled to via the copyright or a license from someone else even if it is for personal use. The NSA isn't legally entitled to that data unless they get a warrant.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2014 @ 11:39am

Re: Taking all bets guys!
You mean to tell me Peter King is gay?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2014 @ 11:48am

Re: Re: Taking all bets guys!
"closeted gay homophobic politician"

Please explain how someone that conflicted could possibly be "simple"? That description reminds me of the Dave Chappelle piece about Clayton Bigsby, the black white supremacist.

http://www.snotr.com/video/3726/Dave_Chappelle
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Lurker Keith, 13 Feb 2014 @ 11:52am

Re: Re: Re: Google worse than NSA
I can't see how, since I don't know that song. I know of it, but have avoided finding anything out about it.
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Not That Chris (profile), 13 Feb 2014 @ 12:05pm

Re: Re: Probably Dumb Questions
Just to clarify, I wasn't advocating impeachment, just questioning why it wasn't being used instead of a lawsuit.

And no, actually, I abhor talk radio because I'm not an old white blowhard.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Feb 2014 @ 1:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Probably Dumb Questions
A couple of reasons. 1. Impeachment requires getting enough of Congress to go through the process which historically is something Congress has been very reluctant to do while filing a lawsuit is something he can do on his own. 2. Impeachment doesn't necessarily end up before a court. It may result in simply the removal of the individuals from their positions or, as was the case with Clinton's impeachment, simply end with the investigation, both of which don't do anything about the problematic way the law is being abused. A court decision can result in declaration that the actions by the NSA are unconstitutional and illegal effectively killing them and setting a legal precedent against them.
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JBDragon, 13 Feb 2014 @ 3:57pm

All this outright spying on U.S. Citizens and for what? It didn't stop the Boston Bombing even with Russia handing over Data about these people!!! Russia warned the U.S. and we didn't nothing. All that spying didn't do jack. All that just spy on everyone. What happened to Innocent until proven guilty? Now the Government just thinks everyone is Guilty and so lets spy on everyone.

This is what happens with a over growing and more and more corrupt Government. We have a Dictator that's suppose to be President and as he says, if Congress doesn't do what HE wants, he has a Phone and a Pen!!! What a joke.
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btrussell (profile), 13 Feb 2014 @ 5:08pm

Re: Google worse than NSA
I don't have a problem with google because google can't/isn't doing what you claim. If you are giving all your info to google, don't complain to me that you are doing so.
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John Fenderson (profile), 14 Feb 2014 @ 9:05am

Re: Google worse than NSA
Because Google == optional, NSA == not optional.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Feb 2014 @ 4:34am

Re: Constitutional provisions
What you probably don't understand yourself is that democracy and republic mean the same thing. One word comes from latin and one from greek. IIRC, res publica and demos cratos, respectively.
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