Timeshare Company Sundance Vacations Accused Of Forging Court Order To Delete Discussion Of Its Practices
from the getting-into-felony-territory dept
We've seen all sorts of bizarre and questionable attempts by companies to silence criticism or content they just don't like. Bogus copyright, trademark and defamation claims are pretty standard these days. There's also just general "begging" or the random "tortious interference" arguments. But according to Metafilter's Matt Haughey, timeshare company Sundance Vacations may have taken things to insane new levels: forging a bogus court order to try to get Metafilter to remove a years-old thread.It started nearly two years ago when Sundance Vacations sent Haughey an email, asking him to remove this 2010 thread in which someone asked about Sundance Vacations marketing process -- starting off with "am I about to get screwed by Sundance Vacactions?" leading to a rather tame discussion about the sales tactics of the timeshare industry, and ways to deal with the dreaded "informational meeting" (really a hard sales pitch). The email included an attachment of a "court order" against someone who was supposedly running a "Sundance Vacations Protest site" barring them from speaking negatively about the company online. I don't see how such a court order is actually legal given the whole First Amendment, but we'll leave that aside for the moment. Haughey pointed out that the person named in the court order was clearly not the person who posted the Metafilter thread, and everyone went on with their lives.
Until a few days ago, when Sundance Vacations sent a new email to Haughey, talking about a new court order, apparently against the person running this Boycott Sundance Vacations Facebook group. Bizarrely, the "court order" listed the Metafilter page in the document. Haughey posted the court order as an image:
On top of that, the Order lists out five URLs which it claims are defamatory and says that plaintiffs can use the order to get those articles removed or delisted. While it's not unheard of for local clueless courts to make such rulings, you can't actually make such an order, because it violates Section 230 of the CDA. Thus even if it were true, it wouldn't be enforceable. But it's not actually true. After questioning it, Haughey called the actual court:
Today (Tuesday) I called a clerk in the Hinds County Chancery Court office. They asked me to fax them a copy of the court order so they could verify the document. I did as requested and a few hours later got a call back from the office saying it was not a real document from their court. The case numbers on the first page are from an unrelated case that took place last year. The clerk said they found a case from August 21, 2014 that used similar language but had different plaintiffs and defendants, but the same lawyers on page 3. In their opinion, it seemed someone grabbed a PDF from a different case and copy/pasted new details to it before sending it on to me.As Haughey notes, forging court documents is a felony. It kind of makes you wonder, if a company will commit felonies to hide some (very mild) online criticism, what kind of crap will it do in its regular business of trying to do high pressure sales to buy into their timeshare?
Ken "Popehat" White points out that Sundance Vacations is now denying having sent the email, though it's pretty difficult to think who else might be sending such an email.
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Filed Under: censorship, court order, forgery, matt haughey, silence, time shares, timeshares
Companies: metafilter, sundance vacations
Reader Comments
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Wonder if they'll figure out a way to hard-sell cigarettes in prison.
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Email forgery
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Next move...
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Re:
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Email headers
It should be quite easy to show who sent the email.
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Awfully close signatures
Then follow that to the C's and E's. Fluidity of both signatures is the same.
The i's tell a story because it's a swoosh for the top of the icon both, not just a pen tap.
Now compare s in vacations to Morgan's g.
Seems like Eric has some explaining to do or someone forged both those signatures.
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Well
"am I about to get screwed by Sundance Vacactions?"
Yes. Yes you are.
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Re: Awfully close signatures
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Re: Email headers
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In 2014 people still ask you to Fax things?
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Re: Email headers
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Re:
What is a bit harder (but far from impossible) is spoofing the other administrative fields that can be used to determine the actual source of the email.
However, the important point is that emails, including the full administrative headers, are simply plain text. Once an email has been delivered, it is trivial to edit that text so the headers say anything you want them to say.
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Re: Re:
Whoever is responsible for sending the email - Sundance or someone else - is in serious trouble if they are caught. I think there's more than enough probable cause to get a warrant or subpoena to examine the original, if it is indeed on a third party server.
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'gateway' crime?
Of course, it should not surprise us that the ethics (or lack of) of someone involved in peddling timeshares might not stop there. So what's a little forgery when you're already scamming people out out of their retirement savings or children's college fund on a daily basis?
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Next step...
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Re: 'gateway' crime?
You seem to be thinking the entire timeshare industry is a scam. This is not so. It's a way for someone to enjoy some benefits of a property without having to buy the whole thing.
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Re: Re: 'gateway' crime?
We have to remember that there is a difference between something that is always a scam (Nigerian 419) and something that is often a scam, on rare occasions not a scam, but universally a really crappy deal (timeshare).
Sometimes people selling crap really don't know they are doing so...
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Re: Re: Re: 'gateway' crime?
I know people who have been involved with multiple timeshares and have found it valuable and a very good experience.
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Headers
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Re: Awfully close signatures
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Re: Re: Awfully close signatures
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