NZ Prime Minister: 'I'll Resign If GCSB Did Mass Surveillance'; GCSB: 'We Did Mass Surveillance'; NZPM: 'Uh...'

from the start-the-parsing dept

Tue, Mar 10th 2015 2:29pm — Mike Masnick

Back in the summer of 2013 as the various "Five Eyes" countries were still reeling from the initial Snowden disclosures, New Zealand's Prime Minister John Key promised to resign if it was ever proven that the GCSB (New Zealand's equivalent to the NSA) had engaged in mass surveillance of New Zealanders -- but with some caveats. He later said that he meant if it was proven that there was illegal surveillance going on. But of course, what's legal can vary based on who's in charge. Either way, late last year there were Snowden documents that proved GCSB regularly scooped up data on New Zealanders, and Key reacted to it by calling Glenn Greenwald "a loser." Not quite the resignation you might have expected.

Then, of course, last week there were further revelations of GCSB doing mass surveillance on a bunch of neighboring countries. In response to that, a former director of the GCSB, Bruce Ferguson, admitted that of course the GCSB was engaged in mass surveillance, but he thinks it's okay because it "discards items it cannot have."

"The whole method of surveillance these days, is sort of a mass collection situation – individualized: that is mission impossible.”

And, later:

"You cannot these days just individually select people ... you put out a big net, catch stuff, you throw out the stuff you don't want ... and you keep the stuff you do want."

In other words, the GCSB does mass surveillance. So what is Prime Minister John Key now saying about this? Well, first, he will no longer promise that mass surveillance isn't taking place, because of course he can't. Furthermore, he now says that even if mass surveillance is shown he won't resign.

And that leads up to an interview done by Radio New Zealand with Key, in which he just starts tap dancing like crazy:

Interviewer: “Nicky Hager’s revelations late last week . . . have stoked fears that New Zealanders’ communications are being indiscriminately caught in that net. . . . The Prime Minister, John Key, has in the past promised to resign if it were found to be mass surveillance of New Zealanders . . . Earlier, Mr. Key was unable to give me an assurance that mass collection of communications from New Zealanders in the Pacific was not taking place.”

PM Key: “No, I can’t. I read the transcript [of former GCSB Director Bruce Ferguson’s interview] – I didn’t hear the interview – but I read the transcript, and you know, look, there’s a variety of interpretations – I’m not going to critique–”

Interviewer: “OK, I’m not asking for a critique. Let’s listen to what Bruce Ferguson did tell us on Friday:”

Ferguson: “The whole method of surveillance these days, is sort of a mass collection situation – individualized: that is mission impossible.”

Interviewer: “And he repeated that several times, using the analogy of a net which scoops up all the information. . . . I’m not asking for a critique with respect to him. Can you confirm whether he is right or wrong?”

Key: “Uh, well I’m not going to go and critique the guy. And I’m not going to give a view of whether he’s right or wrong” . . . .

Interviewer: “So is there mass collection of personal data of New Zealand citizens in the Pacific or not?”

Key: “I’m just not going to comment on where we have particular targets, except to say that where we go and collect particular information, there is always a good reason for that.”

As Glenn Greenwald points out, this is quite an evolution:

From “I will resign if it’s shown we engage in mass surveillance of New Zealanders” to “I won’t say if we’re doing it” and “I won’t quit either way despite my prior pledges.”

Being a politician, it seems, is always making sure you can tap dance around the fact that you'll make pledges you never intend to keep.

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Filed Under: bruce ferguson, gcsb, john key, mass surveillance, new zealand, nsa, prime minister, surveillance

20 Comments

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Coyne Tibbets (profile), 10 Mar 2015 @ 2:36pm

Uhh...
"Ha, ha: had my fingers crossed behind my back!"
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2015 @ 2:42pm

One day one of them will slip and tell the truth. "You know, I don't care what I said and I don't care what I'm saying now because the stupid electors don't care either and they won't remember and nor will I. I'm only here for the s-load of cash I;ll make afterwards from revolving doors and think tanks. So what are you going to do about that? Huh? Huh? Thought so. Now piss off"
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2015 @ 2:43pm

PROVE IT
...you throw out the stuff you don't want...
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2015 @ 2:46pm

This is just how adults stick their fingers in their ears and go "nyah nyah nyah I can't hear you!"

Question: was he making airplane noises during the interview?
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limbodog (profile), 10 Mar 2015 @ 2:52pm

In the immortal words of Ashe
"That's just what we call 'pillow talk' baby!
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2015 @ 3:24pm

Re:
Already happened, at least sort of: http://honestgil.com/
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2015 @ 3:32pm

Re: PROVE IT
"But I want it all."
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2015 @ 3:39pm

he seems to have this unerring ability to make himself out to be a total woman's pee-thing, doesn't he! put him, the Aussie idiot and Cameron from the UK into a black room together and see who could find the way out first! i doubt if the spectacle would be very pretty, especially if they all had to tell the truth to a series of questions to help them!
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2015 @ 3:52pm

Re: Uhh...
That would be a far too honest a response to expect from him.
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tqk (profile), 10 Mar 2015 @ 3:53pm

Not good enough.
He's the one who made the deal, not his detractors. If bulk collection, resign. His resignation remains expected. I suggest they change the locks.
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Qyiet, 10 Mar 2015 @ 3:57pm

Two of the Pacific Nations ARE New Zealanders
All the citizens of the Cook Islands and Niue have NZ citizenship. So not only is NZ conducting mass surveillance, it's also clearly, illegally, doing it against it's own citizens.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2015 @ 5:52pm

Re: In the immortal words of Ashe
I'll resign if GCSB conducts mass surveillance.
It's a trick. Get an axe.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2015 @ 6:53pm

Perhaps this is what he meant: "If we are found to have engaged in mass surveillance, I'll resign ... myself to the fact that we got caught."
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2015 @ 7:42pm

Slimeball see, Slimeball do.
Its nice to know that other countries leaders are just as slimy as our own here in the US.
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anonon, 11 Mar 2015 @ 2:49am

Re: PROVE IT
...you throw out the stuff you don't want...

This is exactly what New Zealanders and other Five-Eye nation's citizens should be doing.

Throw out Key and the GCSB incumbents.
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GOp gopp, 11 Mar 2015 @ 2:56am

Subterfuge..
Latest revelations (of 11th March 2015) reveal that NZ embassies and consulates have been used to conduct surveillance of friendly states.

A far cry from Flight of the Concords' portrayal of NZ embassy workings!

Were the creators of the show part of a propoganda scheme to soften our attitudes to their embassies, a trojan horse ?!

Then again, perhaps the US based NZ embassy is exactly like that with the NSA not allowing anything more, knowing what they would otherwise be capable of..
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Paul Renault (profile), 11 Mar 2015 @ 4:39am

I hope Clarke and Dawe get on this, ASAP.
Clarke and Dawe - The Complexities of Foreign Policy Explained
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drkrg6NtYwA
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John Fenderson (profile), 11 Mar 2015 @ 9:16am

Legal, shmegal
Am I the only one who is utterly sick of the spies defending their actions with the argument that it was legal? Legality isn't really the point, after all.
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tqk (profile), 11 Mar 2015 @ 3:07pm

Re: Legal, shmegal
Nope, you're not alone. Legality ought to be what we use to stop things like this happening. It's failing, affecting the situation fairly negatively. If you're not supposed to get into mass surveillance, how did you get into mass surveillance, and how did you not know you were into mass surveillance?
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GEMont (profile), 11 Mar 2015 @ 11:04pm

Another day, another dollar...
===========================================
HEADLINE: "Politician Lies - details at 11"
===========================================

Hooda thunk it??

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