If you chose to curate it becomes your speech. A newspaper can be sued for libel for its letters to the editor. You cant claim free speech rights and then claim its not your speech at the same time.
Stratton Oakmont v. Prodigy (1995), is just basic libel law. If you curate content that is your speech. Publishers rights come from free speech. You cant claim publishers rights be free from libel at the same time absent some legally granted immunity.
"I expect Techdirt would counter that recent apeallete and SCOTUS rulings (including the red flag knowledge case google vs viacom) would suggest that Facebook, who has the money to appeal as far as necessary, would eventually litigate the issue to a court which would rule that just because moderation happens, Facebook is not on notice of and cannot review the content of every post. Facebook is not and cannot be liable for content it did not create. The only thing section 230 did was to shortcut that whole debate and get to that result."
But then you go right back to Stratton Oakmont v. Prodigy (1995) that is the law absent section 230 immunity.
No if you remember correctly the sites 4 stooges were trying to come up with some kind of example where property rights allowed a person to use physical force to remove someone. We went from in a restaurant, in a bar, in your home, in a public house. You couldn't get through your thick skulls that its never legal to use force to remove person who entered legally unless force is being used upon you or in defense of someone else.
No matter what examples you can think of its never legal.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Technically legal does n
"It's hard to believe that it happened in such a way where such obviously damning evidence (which has never been revealed) just so happened to occur weeks before an election where such things being true could have helped a specific political candidate and made it into the hands of someone with the track record of Rudy, especially given his conduct since then."
You keep omitting that your hypothetical son of politican is a crackhead. When you include that detail its not had to beleive.
Crackhead gets high breaks his laptop. Crackhead takes it to a repair shop the next day. Crackhead goes home, gets high, and forgets all about the laptop.
When you include the crackhead part its not a far fetched story.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Technically legal does not equate to
"The son of a prominent candidate currently leading in polls is claimed to have gone to a random repair centre on the other side of the country with a laptop full of incriminating evidence, but never goes back to pick it up."
Your hypothetical conveniently left out that the son was also a crackhead which makes the scenario far more believable.
High crackhead breaks laptop, takes laptop to computer repairman, crackhead completely forgets entire incident. Not very far fetched once you include that whole crackhead part.
Very similar to the Newburgh Four where the FBI targeted blustering fantasifull schizophrenics and turned them into terrorists.
"Musico bragged that he had thrown Molotov cocktails in cops’ homes and showed off a lump of something he claimed was C-4. But there was no proof he’d ever attacked any officers and the plastic explosives later turned out to be fake. All the tough talk had never gotten beyond jokes and disturbing but vague rhetoric.
And here's only a small part of the FBI's involvement in turning this online smack-talking into a reality:
A few weeks later, [FBI informant] Dan drove five Watchmen and 6,000 rounds of ammunition to Cambria, Wisconsin, for a national training exercise organized by Robeson. He rented a Suburban for the weekend, paid for gas, and subsidized food and lodging for the group, all courtesy of the FBI."
This guy is just nuts and needs to be in a mental institution.
"So your assertion is that you win as 16th century british law gives you the argument as to why a social platform moderating a post should be held to the same standards as a landlord evicting a tenant?"
I'm not the one who used the bull$^$^ example!
The truth is an individual is allowed to use force on another when force is not being used against them or another. So the examples are moot. That entire thread was bad example after bad example because fundamentally it cant be justified legally.
It doesn't matter if they are a customer, tenant, guest etc. etc. if they entered your property legally you cannot use physical force to kick them out. You can be like a bouncer at a dive bar and take the risk but that doesn't make it legal.
The only reason this would be Unconstitutional is the wording "shall be treated as the publisher."
If the bill simply revoked section 230 for medical topics during times of a declared medical emergency, that would be constitutional.
The determination of publisher or platform would then fall to the courts as existed before section 230 based on the degree to which the service curated content as we saw with the prodigy and CompuServe decisions.
"The fact of the matter is that statistically you will have people who have enormous advantages in certain sports based on their phenotype, their ancestry, their early lifestyle, or the quality of their professional career training."
I dont claim to be the elite of my sport. But even at the lower level college where I played DII everyone was a freak of nature. Having the genetics is required to just get you through the door.
Can women compete with men? Yes in my dojo as an 11 year old I started in the same class as an eventual Women's Open 66kg National Champion. By the time I was in college I was playing another sport and only practicing judo intermittently and she was the champ. Now could she beat me? Hell no! It wasn't even close. Now I'm not a dick and a principle of judo is mutual welfare and benefit so when we rolled I didn't use close to my true strength. But I was humoring her. When push literally came to shove she stood no chance. I was too strong. Now here I am an above average male judoka beating the national champ at will. Was I anywhere near her in terms of skill. Hell no!
Oh look he is using Wikipedia again. You are again using 21st century definitions. A 21st century Pub evolved from a public house but they are not the same thing anymore.
"After the Restoration in Great Britain there was a trend toward more extensive, better controlled drinking premises, and magistrates, who supervised licensing matters, started to insist that licensed premises should be equipped with stabling (previously confined to inns) and lodgings." https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/9qVj08mAiJ/
I don't see too many Pubs these days that offer stabling and lodging. But in the days of true public houses lodging had to be offered to be licensed. Now zip it.
"That said it's not exactly an "unfair" advantage as there are a lot of women who possess muscle-building biochemistry and where biological males may have an advantage in muscle mass, they win the game similarly in endurance and reaction time."
We aren't talking about the church league here. We are talking about the elites. At this level the divide between men's and women's sports is huge. The women's world record in the 100m won't even qualify a man for the Olympics.
"From a competition aspect, I think the general idea at the professional level is men and women could not only cross over, but could potentially complete equally.
At lower levels, such situations are more questionable."
You are backwards on that. Its at the elite levels that men separate from women even more. At the lower levels you are correct a WWE women's wrestler can beat an average man. But in any kind of power sport the differences just get bigger and bigger the more elite you get.
The woman's 100m record is 10.49s. That wont even qualify a man for the Olympics.
We see this time and time again. A male athlete who is middling at best transitions and suddenly they are at the elite of the woman's sport. This goes all the way back to Renee Richards in tennis in the 70s. Richard Raskind was a middling club pro tennis player. Better than 99% of people who play tennis but miles away from the elite of the sport.
Richards transitions and is able to qualify for the US open in her 40s in a sport that is dominated by people in their 20s. Elite level tennis is a very young persons game for the quickness needed to cover the court.
So how does someone go from being a club pro as a man to top 20s in her 40s as a woman?
You are on the internet. You could have watched Fox pounding Brent into a bloody heap in a matter of seconds. You are choosing to remain ignorant so you can claim ignorance.
That exactly is how it works. It gets harder and there is more randomness the more judges there are in a given district. But as many on the left like to complain about Republicans had a very good batting average in drawing Judge Hanen and the Southern District of Texas has 55 judges. Both sides engage in that targeted judge shopping and republicans were very active and successful during the Obama administration in drawing their target judges.
Look at your own complaining about patent cases. Between Judge Gilstrap in the Eastern District of Texas (11 Judges) and Judge Albright in the Western District of Texas (17 Judges) the two of them "randomly" preside over approximately 50-80% of all US patent cases.
In districts of 11 and 17 judges you can draw your favorite judge with near certainty and you complain about this vigorously. And you are right BTW. But when its ruling you like you are arguing that the 4 judge Northern District of Florida is random? lol
The Northern District of Florida has 4 US district court judges. Looking at the docket at a given time any lawyer with a damn would know with near 100% certainty which judge they would draw.
That is why the Northern District has been such a preferred filing location for leftist challenging the Republican Governments laws. They always draw Hinkle, Hinkle always finds 'no compelling government interest', and the 11th circuit almost always @%^& slaps Hinkle across the face on appeal.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I Invented the Keyboard Necktie!!!!
I make a big difference between a libertarian and a capital L "L"ibertarian. "L"ibertarians are authoritarian religious zealots who adopt libertarian principles to avoid accountability.
Strength and muscle mass are not the same thing. They are related but a smaller person can be much stronger than a larger person, especially amongst athletes. An elite 120kg bodybuilder's strength will pale in comparison to an elite 59kg powerlifter. What makes a muscle strong, the fiber, is a small percentage of its overall mass.
Saying that trans women should not be allowed to compete in womens sports is not anti-trans. Its pro-women. Joe Rogan comes from MMA which had one of the first examples of trans women in sport when the trans Falon Fox put Timika Brent in the hospital with a broken skull.
BTW Falon Fox is not a good fighter. She is just so much stronger than the women she fights that she is able to over power them.
This is what Timika Brent said about her fight with Fox while she was recovering in the hospital
"I have struggled with many women and I have never felt the strength I felt in a fight like that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because she was born a man or not because I’m not a doctor. I can only say that I have never felt so dominated in my life and that I am an abnormally strong woman in my own right? I still disagree with Fox’s struggle. Any other job or career that I say I try, but when it comes to a combat sport I don’t think it’s fair."
On the post: Senators Klobuchar And Lujan Release Ridiculous, Blatantly Unconstitutional Bill To Make Facebook Liable For Health Misinformation
Re:
If you chose to curate it becomes your speech. A newspaper can be sued for libel for its letters to the editor. You cant claim free speech rights and then claim its not your speech at the same time.
On the post: Senators Klobuchar And Lujan Release Ridiculous, Blatantly Unconstitutional Bill To Make Facebook Liable For Health Misinformation
Re:
Stratton Oakmont v. Prodigy (1995), is just basic libel law. If you curate content that is your speech. Publishers rights come from free speech. You cant claim publishers rights be free from libel at the same time absent some legally granted immunity.
On the post: Senators Klobuchar And Lujan Release Ridiculous, Blatantly Unconstitutional Bill To Make Facebook Liable For Health Misinformation
Re: Re: Don't Be So Certain
"I expect Techdirt would counter that recent apeallete and SCOTUS rulings (including the red flag knowledge case google vs viacom) would suggest that Facebook, who has the money to appeal as far as necessary, would eventually litigate the issue to a court which would rule that just because moderation happens, Facebook is not on notice of and cannot review the content of every post. Facebook is not and cannot be liable for content it did not create. The only thing section 230 did was to shortcut that whole debate and get to that result."
But then you go right back to Stratton Oakmont v. Prodigy (1995) that is the law absent section 230 immunity.
On the post: Judge Ignores First Amendment, Misreads Town Law, While Ordering Resident To Remove 'Fuck Biden' Signs
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
No if you remember correctly the sites 4 stooges were trying to come up with some kind of example where property rights allowed a person to use physical force to remove someone. We went from in a restaurant, in a bar, in your home, in a public house. You couldn't get through your thick skulls that its never legal to use force to remove person who entered legally unless force is being used upon you or in defense of someone else.
No matter what examples you can think of its never legal.
On the post: Judge Ignores First Amendment, Misreads Town Law, While Ordering Resident To Remove 'Fuck Biden' Signs
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Technically legal does n
"It's hard to believe that it happened in such a way where such obviously damning evidence (which has never been revealed) just so happened to occur weeks before an election where such things being true could have helped a specific political candidate and made it into the hands of someone with the track record of Rudy, especially given his conduct since then."
You keep omitting that your hypothetical son of politican is a crackhead. When you include that detail its not had to beleive.
Crackhead gets high breaks his laptop. Crackhead takes it to a repair shop the next day. Crackhead goes home, gets high, and forgets all about the laptop.
When you include the crackhead part its not a far fetched story.
On the post: Judge Ignores First Amendment, Misreads Town Law, While Ordering Resident To Remove 'Fuck Biden' Signs
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Technically legal does not equate to
"The son of a prominent candidate currently leading in polls is claimed to have gone to a random repair centre on the other side of the country with a laptop full of incriminating evidence, but never goes back to pick it up."
Your hypothetical conveniently left out that the son was also a crackhead which makes the scenario far more believable.
High crackhead breaks laptop, takes laptop to computer repairman, crackhead completely forgets entire incident. Not very far fetched once you include that whole crackhead part.
On the post: Court Docs Appear To Show FBI Informants Contributed Two-Thirds Of The Conspirators To The Michigan Governor Kidnapping Plot
They Have done thsi before: Newburgh Four
Very similar to the Newburgh Four where the FBI targeted blustering fantasifull schizophrenics and turned them into terrorists.
"Musico bragged that he had thrown Molotov cocktails in cops’ homes and showed off a lump of something he claimed was C-4. But there was no proof he’d ever attacked any officers and the plastic explosives later turned out to be fake. All the tough talk had never gotten beyond jokes and disturbing but vague rhetoric.
And here's only a small part of the FBI's involvement in turning this online smack-talking into a reality:
A few weeks later, [FBI informant] Dan drove five Watchmen and 6,000 rounds of ammunition to Cambria, Wisconsin, for a national training exercise organized by Robeson. He rented a Suburban for the weekend, paid for gas, and subsidized food and lodging for the group, all courtesy of the FBI."
This guy is just nuts and needs to be in a mental institution.
On the post: Judge Ignores First Amendment, Misreads Town Law, While Ordering Resident To Remove 'Fuck Biden' Signs
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"So your assertion is that you win as 16th century british law gives you the argument as to why a social platform moderating a post should be held to the same standards as a landlord evicting a tenant?"
I'm not the one who used the bull$^$^ example!
The truth is an individual is allowed to use force on another when force is not being used against them or another. So the examples are moot. That entire thread was bad example after bad example because fundamentally it cant be justified legally.
It doesn't matter if they are a customer, tenant, guest etc. etc. if they entered your property legally you cannot use physical force to kick them out. You can be like a bouncer at a dive bar and take the risk but that doesn't make it legal.
On the post: Senators Klobuchar And Lujan Release Ridiculous, Blatantly Unconstitutional Bill To Make Facebook Liable For Health Misinformation
Yes Unconstitutional But Not By Much
The only reason this would be Unconstitutional is the wording "shall be treated as the publisher."
If the bill simply revoked section 230 for medical topics during times of a declared medical emergency, that would be constitutional.
The determination of publisher or platform would then fall to the courts as existed before section 230 based on the degree to which the service curated content as we saw with the prodigy and CompuServe decisions.
On the post: Content Moderation Case Study: Spotify Comes Under Fire For Hosting Joe Rogan's Podcast (2020)
Re: Re: Re: Can't respect a coward
"The fact of the matter is that statistically you will have people who have enormous advantages in certain sports based on their phenotype, their ancestry, their early lifestyle, or the quality of their professional career training."
I dont claim to be the elite of my sport. But even at the lower level college where I played DII everyone was a freak of nature. Having the genetics is required to just get you through the door.
Can women compete with men? Yes in my dojo as an 11 year old I started in the same class as an eventual Women's Open 66kg National Champion. By the time I was in college I was playing another sport and only practicing judo intermittently and she was the champ. Now could she beat me? Hell no! It wasn't even close. Now I'm not a dick and a principle of judo is mutual welfare and benefit so when we rolled I didn't use close to my true strength. But I was humoring her. When push literally came to shove she stood no chance. I was too strong. Now here I am an above average male judoka beating the national champ at will. Was I anywhere near her in terms of skill. Hell no!
On the post: Judge Ignores First Amendment, Misreads Town Law, While Ordering Resident To Remove 'Fuck Biden' Signs
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Oh look he is using Wikipedia again. You are again using 21st century definitions. A 21st century Pub evolved from a public house but they are not the same thing anymore.
"After the Restoration in Great Britain there was a trend toward more extensive, better controlled drinking premises, and magistrates, who supervised licensing matters, started to insist that licensed premises should be equipped with stabling (previously confined to inns) and lodgings."
https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/9qVj08mAiJ/
I don't see too many Pubs these days that offer stabling and lodging. But in the days of true public houses lodging had to be offered to be licensed. Now zip it.
On the post: Content Moderation Case Study: Spotify Comes Under Fire For Hosting Joe Rogan's Podcast (2020)
Re: Re: Re: Can't respect a coward
"That said it's not exactly an "unfair" advantage as there are a lot of women who possess muscle-building biochemistry and where biological males may have an advantage in muscle mass, they win the game similarly in endurance and reaction time."
We aren't talking about the church league here. We are talking about the elites. At this level the divide between men's and women's sports is huge. The women's world record in the 100m won't even qualify a man for the Olympics.
7 WNBA players have dunked. 7 let that sink in.
On the post: Content Moderation Case Study: Spotify Comes Under Fire For Hosting Joe Rogan's Podcast (2020)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can't respect a coward
"From a competition aspect, I think the general idea at the professional level is men and women could not only cross over, but could potentially complete equally.
At lower levels, such situations are more questionable."
You are backwards on that. Its at the elite levels that men separate from women even more. At the lower levels you are correct a WWE women's wrestler can beat an average man. But in any kind of power sport the differences just get bigger and bigger the more elite you get.
The woman's 100m record is 10.49s. That wont even qualify a man for the Olympics.
We see this time and time again. A male athlete who is middling at best transitions and suddenly they are at the elite of the woman's sport. This goes all the way back to Renee Richards in tennis in the 70s. Richard Raskind was a middling club pro tennis player. Better than 99% of people who play tennis but miles away from the elite of the sport.
Richards transitions and is able to qualify for the US open in her 40s in a sport that is dominated by people in their 20s. Elite level tennis is a very young persons game for the quickness needed to cover the court.
So how does someone go from being a club pro as a man to top 20s in her 40s as a woman?
On the post: Content Moderation Case Study: Spotify Comes Under Fire For Hosting Joe Rogan's Podcast (2020)
Re: Re: Re: Can't respect a coward
"I have no way to assess your claims about Fox"
You are on the internet. You could have watched Fox pounding Brent into a bloody heap in a matter of seconds. You are choosing to remain ignorant so you can claim ignorance.
"The Olympics don't think so,"
The same Olympics that bans athletes for pot?
On the post: Florida Steps Up To Defend Its Unconstitutional Social Media Law And It's Every Bit As Terrible As You'd Imagine
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yeah no Judge Shopping lol
That exactly is how it works. It gets harder and there is more randomness the more judges there are in a given district. But as many on the left like to complain about Republicans had a very good batting average in drawing Judge Hanen and the Southern District of Texas has 55 judges. Both sides engage in that targeted judge shopping and republicans were very active and successful during the Obama administration in drawing their target judges.
Look at your own complaining about patent cases. Between Judge Gilstrap in the Eastern District of Texas (11 Judges) and Judge Albright in the Western District of Texas (17 Judges) the two of them "randomly" preside over approximately 50-80% of all US patent cases.
In districts of 11 and 17 judges you can draw your favorite judge with near certainty and you complain about this vigorously. And you are right BTW. But when its ruling you like you are arguing that the 4 judge Northern District of Florida is random? lol
On the post: Florida Steps Up To Defend Its Unconstitutional Social Media Law And It's Every Bit As Terrible As You'd Imagine
Re: Re: Re: Re: Yeah no Judge Shopping lol
4
The Northern District of Florida has 4 US district court judges. Looking at the docket at a given time any lawyer with a damn would know with near 100% certainty which judge they would draw.
That is why the Northern District has been such a preferred filing location for leftist challenging the Republican Governments laws. They always draw Hinkle, Hinkle always finds 'no compelling government interest', and the 11th circuit almost always @%^& slaps Hinkle across the face on appeal.
On the post: Florida Steps Up To Defend Its Unconstitutional Social Media Law And It's Every Bit As Terrible As You'd Imagine
Re: Re: Yeah no Judge Shopping lol
Hey I found it. You have numerous articles and tweets complaining about judge shopping in patent cases.
https://mobile.twitter.com/mmasnick/status/1382031813669900288
https://www.techdirt.com/artic les/20210409/00165046581/patent-loving-judge-keeps-pissing-off-patent-appeals-court-doesnt-seem-to-c are-very-much.shtml
Yet when you get a decision you like in a clearly judge shopped case you act like judge shopping doesn't exist.
On the post: Florida
ManGovernor Wastes More Florida Taxpayer Money Appealing Ruling About His Unconstitutional Social Media LawRe: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I Invented the Keyboard Necktie!!!!
I make a big difference between a libertarian and a capital L "L"ibertarian. "L"ibertarians are authoritarian religious zealots who adopt libertarian principles to avoid accountability.
On the post: Content Moderation Case Study: Spotify Comes Under Fire For Hosting Joe Rogan's Podcast (2020)
Re: Re: Re: Can't respect a coward
Strength and muscle mass are not the same thing. They are related but a smaller person can be much stronger than a larger person, especially amongst athletes. An elite 120kg bodybuilder's strength will pale in comparison to an elite 59kg powerlifter. What makes a muscle strong, the fiber, is a small percentage of its overall mass.
On the post: Content Moderation Case Study: Spotify Comes Under Fire For Hosting Joe Rogan's Podcast (2020)
Re: Can't respect a coward
Saying that trans women should not be allowed to compete in womens sports is not anti-trans. Its pro-women. Joe Rogan comes from MMA which had one of the first examples of trans women in sport when the trans Falon Fox put Timika Brent in the hospital with a broken skull.
BTW Falon Fox is not a good fighter. She is just so much stronger than the women she fights that she is able to over power them.
This is what Timika Brent said about her fight with Fox while she was recovering in the hospital
"I have struggled with many women and I have never felt the strength I felt in a fight like that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because she was born a man or not because I’m not a doctor. I can only say that I have never felt so dominated in my life and that I am an abnormally strong woman in my own right? I still disagree with Fox’s struggle. Any other job or career that I say I try, but when it comes to a combat sport I don’t think it’s fair."
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