I just heard the podcast this weekend and was hoping TD would write something up like this. The podcast talked about some of the nuances of this and I have to say Cleveland.com had a pretty compelling case for why some of these cases should be 'forgotten'. I'm not saying I would make the same decisions they did, but there were some things that I liked about it.
It was voluntary - no one forced Cleveland.com to do this.
They annotated that an article had been changed (possibly allowing you to look it up via internet archive)
They treated every case as different -- no automatic censorship.
Thoughtful debate between multiple parties and view points
Accepted that it was an experiment and that the rules can change over time.
However, there is no way to 'legislate' this. EU's right to be forgotten completely takes the nuance and debate out of this. That is nice for automating things, but for small platforms that care about niche issues, telling them they have to remove an article because the government said so.... eesh.
P.S. Complete aside -- I do think that there are cases when sites SHOULD take things down. A preacher friend of mine was wrongfully accused of being a pedophile (arrested, name ran through the mud, the whole bit) and the local papers covered it, as they do (and should), but never issued that the case was dropped. That page is still up there to this day with no correction or update. That is the travesty of keeping things online forever; sometimes rumors are the bits of history that leave a trail.
Wonder if these two will be compensated by Coalfire for their time in prison if, in fact, the company did think that these actions were warranted.
Definitely would be bad for these guys' lives to be derailed for doing their job.
Side Note: Usually giving police departments a heads up that this kind of stuff will be done is a good idea. I get that it kind of invalidates the tests, but even giving the Police chief IDs of the people who are going to probe a target might make sense...
Export Controls Sounds Like a Pretty Simple Request...
So, if they government is worried about export controls, why not just request any users that have used the app within the boundaries of the export control?
Seems like that would be an easier way to ask for what they want' without the collateral damage. Not saying that there isn't valid reasons for innocent people to have a firearm there (a foreign national hunting in a arms restricted country, etc)
But my guess is that is just a ruse for something else. Oh how little we trust our government institutions these days. More than likely it is compiling an unconstitutional 'secret' list like the TSA, DHS, and countless other Acronymed Agencies are so fond of...
"That conduct is defined as videos depicting terrorist acts, murders, attempted murders, torture, rape or kidnap." <-- No more Action movies in Australia, boys. The government just shut that down!
Can I have Equifax remove my personal information from their system under CCPA? I mean, TransUnion and Experian can easily pick up the slack. I get that I'd have extra hoops to jump through if I did that, but heck... it'd almost be worth a sustained effort for people to request that they not use their information. Not much of a business if you don't have users!
So, I would have to assume the 9th Circuit sees giving a password to a third party as 'unauthorized access'. This would be the same as if I gave my friend my Netflix password. There you gave lawful access to a knowing third party, but that doesn't mean that the company WANTS that type of access to be performed, thus the password in the first place. CFAA would be like a howitzer killing an ant in that instance, but the legal premise remains.
A second argument for Facebook in this instance is, additional automated calls that are not directly generated by a user can also cause additional costs should enough people be using services attached to their accounts. Bandwidth isn't free, nor is computing hardware to handle the requests. While a pesky little startup with big dreams isn't trouble now, even if it were to become 1% of Facebook's footprint, that would be a LOT of extra overhead in term of scraping calls that weren't turning eyeballs into dollars.
Threading that needle is a dicey one because sharing account info like that has a lot of LEGITIMATE uses as well. And painting everything with broad strokes does tend to stifle invention.
So maybe I've missed some of this nuance... Wouldn't the account that is actively viewing the content be the account that is considered 'over 13', 'under 13' or unknown (anonymous / no account)? I literally only watch baby shows on YouTube for my kid. I don't really YouTube much, but I don't log out of Chrome, log back in as my 1 year old... that sounds insane. So I'm assuming that they are targeting me with ads in this case. I get it. Awesome.
So, let's say my kid is 10. He creates his own Google account. He is under 13. He watches another video... COPPA doesn't say you can't advertise, it just says you can't use his 'private' data to target, correct? Generalized advertisements (like you see on Disney Channel, Cartoon Network, etc.) are still allowed.
Now, let's say my kid jumps on my computer and stays logged into my account. I don't see how any sane person could 'blame Google' for the actions of the user (in this case my kid) for Google sending him targeted ads (albeit based primarily on my data). Hell, it probably thinks i'm totally into Power Rangers and Powder Puff Girls or whatever happens to be popular (he is using my account after all).
So... while I agree that this does seem like an unnecessary expansion of the law, I don't know why they had to expand it in the first place. Either Google knowingly targeted children's accounts (content is irrelevant), or they didn't.
If Google saw an account flagged as sub-13 and ignored the law, that is kind of on them.
If they allow 'anonymous' browsing; I'd assume that their TOS would cover them (you must be 13 or older).
If you have an adult's account and are actually a child... this seems like yet another example of the intermediate liability... which is dumb. If you are mortally upset, then the government should sue the users for... using a service?
So depending on how the jailbreak happens, given the fact that the Vita does have a web browser I could see this as a 'proactive' step in stopping hackers from remotely taking over this device.
I'm not saying that is their core motivation, but it is something from a security perspective that I can at least acknowledge as being apart of their reasoning. How bad would it look if a malicious actor installed malware on those devices? Between ransomware attacks, bricking the device for the fun of it, or even a cryptominer... Sony would be harangued, even here at Tech Dirt, for shoddy security.
I think that if the defendant is going to be unmasked, they need to legally change their last name to DavidNunesCow because I would love to see that on the court docket. That'd be something to frame.
You can't use the memos, but what about the people?
So... What would stop Backpage from calling every person that was mentioned in those memos (under the assumption that they had a relationship with them.) and having them attest those statements under oath on the stand? I mean, if they basically say what their memo's said, it should be pretty damning for the prosecution, no?
Am I reading that right? The insurance companies are paying $14 million dollars to recoup $5.6 million? I don't see an upside for the insurance companies here...
Stop "Politician said something for attention" Stories....
I get that Hawley is dangerous the same way Trump is dangerous. But keeping his name in the news because 'some dumb person said something dumb' is the same reason we now have President Trump.... They do these stupid outbursts for attention and we are all too eager to give it to them.
I would be arrested in a heartbeat if I set up a fake college, fake accreditation, fake facebook and collected REAL MONEY from REAL PEOPLE and offered no services. Why is it that ICE can do this and get a pass?
How dare Github allow numeric digits to be used in code!
I think it would be safer if GitHub moderated every line of code and checked for copyright as well. How many infringing people are out there? We don't know until GitHub finds those nefarious codethiefs! And don't let them use numbers, those could be sensitive.
You know what... just to be safe... let's make Github just stop letting 3rd parties post to their site. Only employees of GitHub should be allowed to post code to that site, like the publishers that they are! That seems like a sensible solution to solve these rogue hackers from hacking things.
Who else would do this for both mobile and wired infrastructure? We only have 3 options... AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon... adding the mobile component to that contract pretty much leaves everyone else out of the competition. And T-Mobile I'm not sure if they even have wired infrastructure... so... AT&T or Verizon. Pick your poison.
But they are still hiring a composer... this is just for ancillary music for a small part of the game. In the Watchdogs: Legion, you are talking about modern day setting with music coming from cars, stereos, malls, etc. This is a part of world that you don't need compositional work. I see this no different than if Grand Theft Auto decided to have an 'indie' radio station in their next game and did something similar to this.
We aren't talking about the main theme for the game. And I will bet you that whoever is in charge of the music isn't just going to grab a hodgepodge of 10 random songs... There is still a curation process. It would be a lot easier (albeit probably more expensive) to just go out, find some songs they like, throw money at it, and move on. OR... they could give someone the opportunity to have their original song in a game, pay them for it, and have a good story to talk about.
You should blame Kinko's for letting a person write libelous bumper sticket (libel = illegal speech)
You should blame your local government for letting a person read a play outside of my house in 'public' (performing a play is copyright infringement since it is a public performance)
You should blame your State/Province for letting a person threaten a co-worker (illegal speech)
You should blame the First Amendment for letting people be dicks....
If you start to blame Facebook for letting people say things and holding THEM responsible, you take the onus off the real asshole and open up for stupid lawsuits. This isn't about having a cake and eating it too... It's about the damn cake being allowed to exist in the first place!
My only question here is why shouldn't lyric sites be licensed? I get that they aren't directly competing with the music, but at the end of the day, lyrics do meet the bar of creative expression. Just because they are read vs. listened to doesn't change that fact.
The fair use claim of transformative, I can understand, but doubt it would hold up. If people commenting and annotating song lyrics might be informational, but you could argue the same thing of an entire book. I don't think that many authors would appreciate their entire book being posted online for free under the guise of "but annotations!".
Keep in mind I think that these sites have value outside of the song themselves. I understand that they do not compete, but you do this to poems, you'd have problems as well I would surmise.
On the post: Should The Media Voluntarily Embrace A 'Right To Be Forgotten'?
Heard the Radiolab Piece -- Same boat as Mike
I just heard the podcast this weekend and was hoping TD would write something up like this. The podcast talked about some of the nuances of this and I have to say Cleveland.com had a pretty compelling case for why some of these cases should be 'forgotten'. I'm not saying I would make the same decisions they did, but there were some things that I liked about it.
However, there is no way to 'legislate' this. EU's right to be forgotten completely takes the nuance and debate out of this. That is nice for automating things, but for small platforms that care about niche issues, telling them they have to remove an article because the government said so.... eesh.
P.S. Complete aside -- I do think that there are cases when sites SHOULD take things down. A preacher friend of mine was wrongfully accused of being a pedophile (arrested, name ran through the mud, the whole bit) and the local papers covered it, as they do (and should), but never issued that the case was dropped. That page is still up there to this day with no correction or update. That is the travesty of keeping things online forever; sometimes rumors are the bits of history that leave a trail.
On the post: Security Researchers Whose 'Penetration Test' Involved Breaking And Entering Now Facing Criminal Charges
Hazard Pay?
Wonder if these two will be compensated by Coalfire for their time in prison if, in fact, the company did think that these actions were warranted.
Definitely would be bad for these guys' lives to be derailed for doing their job.
Side Note: Usually giving police departments a heads up that this kind of stuff will be done is a good idea. I get that it kind of invalidates the tests, but even giving the Police chief IDs of the people who are going to probe a target might make sense...
On the post: Senator Hawley Responds To Techdirt With A Bunch Of Nonsense And Lies About His Own Bill That He Doesn't Seem To Understand
Saagar's face says it all
That incredulous look of "I know you are speaking English... but the words that are coming out of your mouth don't make sense"
On the post: DOJ Wants Apple, Google To Hand Over Names And Phone Numbers Of 10,000 App Users
Export Controls Sounds Like a Pretty Simple Request...
So, if they government is worried about export controls, why not just request any users that have used the app within the boundaries of the export control?
Seems like that would be an easier way to ask for what they want' without the collateral damage. Not saying that there isn't valid reasons for innocent people to have a firearm there (a foreign national hunting in a arms restricted country, etc)
But my guess is that is just a ruse for something else. Oh how little we trust our government institutions these days. More than likely it is compiling an unconstitutional 'secret' list like the TSA, DHS, and countless other Acronymed Agencies are so fond of...
On the post: Months After Christchurch Shooting, The Australian Government Is Issuing Site-Blocking Orders Targeting Footage Of The Incident
So... Movies are illegal now?!
"That conduct is defined as videos depicting terrorist acts, murders, attempted murders, torture, rape or kidnap." <-- No more Action movies in Australia, boys. The government just shut that down!
On the post: Equifax Victims Jump Through Hoops To Nab Settlement Money They Won't Get Anyway
Is CCPA required for Equifax?
Can I have Equifax remove my personal information from their system under CCPA? I mean, TransUnion and Experian can easily pick up the slack. I get that I'd have extra hoops to jump through if I did that, but heck... it'd almost be worth a sustained effort for people to request that they not use their information. Not much of a business if you don't have users!
On the post: Big News: Appeals Court Says CFAA Can't Be Used To Stop Web Scraping
Passwords -- I see where they are coming from
So, I would have to assume the 9th Circuit sees giving a password to a third party as 'unauthorized access'. This would be the same as if I gave my friend my Netflix password. There you gave lawful access to a knowing third party, but that doesn't mean that the company WANTS that type of access to be performed, thus the password in the first place. CFAA would be like a howitzer killing an ant in that instance, but the legal premise remains.
A second argument for Facebook in this instance is, additional automated calls that are not directly generated by a user can also cause additional costs should enough people be using services attached to their accounts. Bandwidth isn't free, nor is computing hardware to handle the requests. While a pesky little startup with big dreams isn't trouble now, even if it were to become 1% of Facebook's footprint, that would be a LOT of extra overhead in term of scraping calls that weren't turning eyeballs into dollars.
Threading that needle is a dicey one because sharing account info like that has a lot of LEGITIMATE uses as well. And painting everything with broad strokes does tend to stifle invention.
We will just have to see where it goes.
On the post: FTC's Latest Fine Of YouTube Over COPPA Violations Shows That COPPA And Section 230 Are On A Collision Course
My head hurts
So maybe I've missed some of this nuance... Wouldn't the account that is actively viewing the content be the account that is considered 'over 13', 'under 13' or unknown (anonymous / no account)? I literally only watch baby shows on YouTube for my kid. I don't really YouTube much, but I don't log out of Chrome, log back in as my 1 year old... that sounds insane. So I'm assuming that they are targeting me with ads in this case. I get it. Awesome.
So, let's say my kid is 10. He creates his own Google account. He is under 13. He watches another video... COPPA doesn't say you can't advertise, it just says you can't use his 'private' data to target, correct? Generalized advertisements (like you see on Disney Channel, Cartoon Network, etc.) are still allowed.
Now, let's say my kid jumps on my computer and stays logged into my account. I don't see how any sane person could 'blame Google' for the actions of the user (in this case my kid) for Google sending him targeted ads (albeit based primarily on my data). Hell, it probably thinks i'm totally into Power Rangers and Powder Puff Girls or whatever happens to be popular (he is using my account after all).
So... while I agree that this does seem like an unnecessary expansion of the law, I don't know why they had to expand it in the first place. Either Google knowingly targeted children's accounts (content is irrelevant), or they didn't.
If Google saw an account flagged as sub-13 and ignored the law, that is kind of on them.
If they allow 'anonymous' browsing; I'd assume that their TOS would cover them (you must be 13 or older).
If you have an adult's account and are actually a child... this seems like yet another example of the intermediate liability... which is dumb. If you are mortally upset, then the government should sue the users for... using a service?
What am I missing?!
On the post: Sony Is Feverishly Battling Vita Tinkerers Despite Vita Being Discontinued
Jailbreaks are Security Flaws
So depending on how the jailbreak happens, given the fact that the Vita does have a web browser I could see this as a 'proactive' step in stopping hackers from remotely taking over this device.
I'm not saying that is their core motivation, but it is something from a security perspective that I can at least acknowledge as being apart of their reasoning. How bad would it look if a malicious actor installed malware on those devices? Between ransomware attacks, bricking the device for the fun of it, or even a cryptominer... Sony would be harangued, even here at Tech Dirt, for shoddy security.
On the post: Judge Wants To Know Who's Behind Devin Nunes' Cow's And Mom's Twitter Account
Nunes vs DavidNunesCow
I think that if the defendant is going to be unmasked, they need to legally change their last name to DavidNunesCow because I would love to see that on the court docket. That'd be something to frame.
On the post: New Government Documents Reveal That Backpage Was Actively Helping Law Enforcement Track Down Traffickers
You can't use the memos, but what about the people?
So... What would stop Backpage from calling every person that was mentioned in those memos (under the assumption that they had a relationship with them.) and having them attest those statements under oath on the stand? I mean, if they basically say what their memo's said, it should be pretty damning for the prosecution, no?
On the post: Insurance Companies Are Destroying People's Lives And Cops Are Being Paid To Help Do It
3x enforcement cost vs recoup cost?
Am I reading that right? The insurance companies are paying $14 million dollars to recoup $5.6 million? I don't see an upside for the insurance companies here...
On the post: WSJ Rightly Attacks Senator Josh Hawley's 'Nannyish' Laws Regarding The Internet
Stop "Politician said something for attention" Stories....
I get that Hawley is dangerous the same way Trump is dangerous. But keeping his name in the news because 'some dumb person said something dumb' is the same reason we now have President Trump.... They do these stupid outbursts for attention and we are all too eager to give it to them.
On the post: Lawsuit Filed By Victims Of ICE's Fake College Sting Revived By Appeals Court
Double Standard
I would be arrested in a heartbeat if I set up a fake college, fake accreditation, fake facebook and collected REAL MONEY from REAL PEOPLE and offered no services. Why is it that ICE can do this and get a pass?
On the post: Lawsuit Filed By Victims Of ICE's Fake College Sting Revived By Appeals Court
Re:
That is why they accepted the registration money from the thousands of students set up in this scam... it helped subsidize the cost! /s
On the post: Class Action Lawsuit Hopes To Hold GitHub Responsible For Hosting Data From Capital One Breach
How dare Github allow numeric digits to be used in code!
I think it would be safer if GitHub moderated every line of code and checked for copyright as well. How many infringing people are out there? We don't know until GitHub finds those nefarious codethiefs! And don't let them use numbers, those could be sensitive.
You know what... just to be safe... let's make Github just stop letting 3rd parties post to their site. Only employees of GitHub should be allowed to post code to that site, like the publishers that they are! That seems like a sensible solution to solve these rogue hackers from hacking things.
/s
On the post: AT&T Scores $1 Billion Contract To Rebuild DOJ Systems
Other competitors?
Who else would do this for both mobile and wired infrastructure? We only have 3 options... AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon... adding the mobile component to that contract pretty much leaves everyone else out of the competition. And T-Mobile I'm not sure if they even have wired infrastructure... so... AT&T or Verizon. Pick your poison.
On the post: Ubisoft Once Again Crowdsourcing Content For Video Game, Once Again Gets Unwarranted Backlash
Re: Missing the point...
But they are still hiring a composer... this is just for ancillary music for a small part of the game. In the Watchdogs: Legion, you are talking about modern day setting with music coming from cars, stereos, malls, etc. This is a part of world that you don't need compositional work. I see this no different than if Grand Theft Auto decided to have an 'indie' radio station in their next game and did something similar to this.
We aren't talking about the main theme for the game. And I will bet you that whoever is in charge of the music isn't just going to grab a hodgepodge of 10 random songs... There is still a curation process. It would be a lot easier (albeit probably more expensive) to just go out, find some songs they like, throw money at it, and move on. OR... they could give someone the opportunity to have their original song in a game, pay them for it, and have a good story to talk about.
On the post: Australia Says Media Companies Can Be Sued Over User Comments On Facebook
Re: Re: Re: Cake and Eat It
You should blame Kinko's for letting a person write libelous bumper sticket (libel = illegal speech)
You should blame your local government for letting a person read a play outside of my house in 'public' (performing a play is copyright infringement since it is a public performance)
You should blame your State/Province for letting a person threaten a co-worker (illegal speech)
You should blame the First Amendment for letting people be dicks....
If you start to blame Facebook for letting people say things and holding THEM responsible, you take the onus off the real asshole and open up for stupid lawsuits. This isn't about having a cake and eating it too... It's about the damn cake being allowed to exist in the first place!
On the post: Dumbest 'Gotcha' Story Of The Week: Google, Genius And The Copying Of Licensed Lyrics
Side Question: Aren't Lyrics Poems?
My only question here is why shouldn't lyric sites be licensed? I get that they aren't directly competing with the music, but at the end of the day, lyrics do meet the bar of creative expression. Just because they are read vs. listened to doesn't change that fact.
The fair use claim of transformative, I can understand, but doubt it would hold up. If people commenting and annotating song lyrics might be informational, but you could argue the same thing of an entire book. I don't think that many authors would appreciate their entire book being posted online for free under the guise of "but annotations!".
Keep in mind I think that these sites have value outside of the song themselves. I understand that they do not compete, but you do this to poems, you'd have problems as well I would surmise.
Just something to discuss.
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