" If all of the studios overprice their product then people will listen to music, watch free TV or play board games."
What's stopping people from doing that now?
"But because of the easy, open access to cheap or free content that is illegally distributed the whole market gets turned on its ear. "
Misleading at worst, strawman at best. First you talk about how there's other alternatives in place, then you're trying to insinuate that all people move to download when they may find the free alternatives to overpriced goods.
"And I still don't understand how any of this justifies one to unlawfully get something of value without compensating its owner"
Have you looked into why the CD is no longer a viable market for the RIAA? It still does well, but people like mp3s instead of full CDs. And when people FINALLY had good alternatives, instead of being called thieves, the industry made money on it. So people's attitudes and tastes change. The industry has to find ways to meet those people's demands or they will go elsewhere. It's really that simple. The industries aren't entitled to money. They provide a service, same as a pirate does. If the pirate provides a better service, they get the rewards.
Also, sidenote, the US' history was greatly influenced by piracy. The fact is, when the US didn't respect foreign copyrights on books, our book industry flourished and we had more material to work with.
There's also been research that piracy improves products. You don't have to look further than Steam to understand that in the game markets.
And somehow, I think you skip how "compensation" doesn't always necessarily mean "monetary"...
Rojadirecta was accused of no crimes, but somehow their site was infringing. You can cite the Rule from the FBI handbook all you want, but since the government has taken this aggressive stance they have not had to answer the long, drawn out process which are the domain seizures. They have not answered how they obtained warrants in the domain seizures. They have not answered the rules of how the seizure by its very nature is prior restraint. There have been no adversarial hearings, and quite frankly, this is not a drug crime. They have done something that, while unprecedented, has shown to be incredibly fruitless, ruining people's lives for the sake of Hollywood wanting to turn the clock to the 80s when they were in control of the VCR market.
So until the questions are met, discussed openly and the FBI at the very least allows people to meet the crimes alleged in open court before a domain is seized, your citation of the book is more a deception, intended to make it seem like the rules are "fair". They aren't since NO domain holder had a chance to meet the crimes they were accused of (or even their website's crimes) before it was taken.
" I don't partake or support it. What I do think is that artists would be better off if they embraced what the technology allows and embraced what their fans want."
Amazing, there's been articles where he's defined that position and still he's attacked for it. Why are you so obsessed with calling him a pirate or anything else when he's been pretty consistent with his views on this for (what I assume) has been years?
Humble Indie Bundle - Makes millions of dollars on proceeds from people. Freely.
Big Buck Bunny - 200 GB download. Available to anyone with a connection, free time and a desire to watch. This is yet another project from Blender to promote the free open software movement.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Amounts admitted in court under oath and you still refuse to believe?
"Stop pretending that you have an inalienable right to whatever entertainment you want, when you want it and the price you want. Your complaints are not a justification to unlawfuly take the property of another without compensation."
So you're not going to acknowledge that there are problems with distribution models that make no sense to the consumer, instead criticizing me for pointing out those flaws. Shoot the messenger much?
"Sometimes legitimate sales are eroded by the widepread, unlawful free availability of the same product the rightful owner seeks to be compensated for."
Prove it.
"I'd suggest that none of the costs you cited come anywhere close to the production costs incurred by the rightful owner on a single film that had a N. American theatrical release.. And let's face it, the enticement for people to freely come to the website is largely dependent on "free" content. Otherwise, the world would be inundated with movie blogs and discussion boards instead of pirate sites."
You ignored the Red v Blue discussion, you ignore the fact that The Guild is free to watch. You ignore the multitude of people making a living on being either a Youtube partner or some kind of producer on free platforms. Put simply, you're ignoring the fact that new content is being created without the end user (ie consumer) worrying about "sunk costs".
"And you should have some respect for the people that have to make their living creating the entertainment that seems to be so important in your life. For every Hollywood millionaire there are hundreds of people struggling to make a middle class living. But the only thing that seems to matter to you is your entitlement to get what you want, when you want it at the price you determine, whether the source is the rightful owner or not. What's remarkable is that I doubt that you carry this attitude around in the other aspects of your life"
Oh please, stop with your entitlement speech. It's not like you care one bit about the people that are making a living through fair use and industries that don't think of a game or movie as the only end product. It's telling that you don't know who Nostalgia Critic is. Go research him and how he describes movies and makes a living. Or watch the Guild for FREE on Felicia Day's website.
Better yet, tell me how people enjoy watching Bad News Bears when it hasn't been in theaters for 20 years and they like their home theater instead of a movie theater.
Maybe if you would answer some questions instead of moralizing and trying to condemn people you'd actually have a better argument.
It's been brought to the attention of Washington that they can't enforce that law. Now let's see them try to arrest someone else when the cops were investigated for what they did.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Amounts admitted in court under oath and you still refuse to believe?
"Thank you for another non-sequitor, Jay, but I think a post that is actually on-topic would be more appreciated"
No, it's neither non-sequitor nor off topic. You seem to make some kind of argument where pirates just automatically make money off of someone else's work. You're ignoring all the complaints that people have with current distribution models that either rely or copyright or monopolistic pricing.
The problems of windowing, regionalization or high pricing. The problems of unavailability of product, or the ease of finding a movie on the internet versus distributing and easy access by the copyright holder.
From all that you seem to imply, if a movie makes no money, it's because of piracy. If it's just a bad movie, piracy is the scapegoat, which is exactly what I'm criticizing.
And this also ignores that "pirates" have their own sunk costs. They provide a website, pay for the servers, the upkeep, newer features, among a number of other things to entice people to freely come to their website and hang out. And they do this for none or nearly no profit usually.
So a bit of advice? Learn to focus on better arguments that aren't one sided.
"You ignore the fact that under both current law and the proposed Protect IP Act, the targeted websites all have the same rights afforded any other civil litigant"
That's an outright lie. Or else, they would be able to face the accuser (ie the government) before prior restraint of their website occurs.
"OK Jay. what percentage of people? Nothing like the percentage that use mainstream payment processors. And if a payment processor knowingly opens itself to facilitating criminal transactions a whole new world of problems opens to them. Bring it on."
What percentage of people moved from Blockbuster to Netflix to "rogue sites?" Why does a percentage matter? It doesn't. The point has been that people are going to move to more alternatives than traditional banking and I'm sure that service providers will respond accordingly. All the enforcement will do is decentralize the money.
"And deterrents."
So has filesharing increased or decreased with the passage of the NET Act, DMCA and all other copyright bills? And given that the death penalty was a deterrent before, it hasn't worked.
"You suggest an immutable law of physics applies to human behavior? "
What, can't understand when anyone tells you "what goes up, must come down?"
"What goes around, comes around?"
"If someone passes a law forbidding a practice, more alternatives pop up?"
I'm going to post it here because it's quite relevant.
In Iran, it is against the law to execute virgin women. Still, women are being sentenced to death, so the administration have come up with the idea of forcibly marrying them to prison guards the night before the execution. That way, they would no longer be virgins, and so can be legally executed. Two years ago, one such prison guard stepped forward and told his story, about how the women scheduled for execution would typically resist being forcibly married and have forced sex with the prison guards — so the guards would usually administer sedatives to make the legal process easier. Women are eligible for marriage from 9 years of age in Iran.
In nonlegalese, girls as young as nine are lawfully drugged, raped, and shot. (Iran executes in excess of 5,000 women every year.)
What is most striking about this is not the sheer horror of the evil inherent in the system, but the young prison guard’s reflection in the interview:
“The marriages were lawful.“
Here, it becomes painfully obvious that just because something is written into law, it is not good, just, and righteous. But many people who Believe In The Law will refuse to let this obvious counterproof knock them out of their comfort zone, and will therefore and rationalize it as Iran not being applicable, somehow being a barbaric country and not living up to modern, Western standards.
-------------------------------
Falkvinge goes on to explain how there were other countries, even his native Sweden, that had barbaric laws such as forced sterilization.
I'll put a few from the US here.
Jim Crow - The belief that people of different skins could be separated by law.
Executive Order 9066 - The belief that those of Japanese, Italian, or German descent were criminals without any type of due process during WWII. They lost their homes, the ability to move freely during war time and were imprisoned unfairly.
War on Drugs - To sum this up, it's an attack on an idea. The idea that you can morally regulate every person, imprison and reform them, while depriving them of education opportunities, or basic civil rights.
Just because everything is law, does not make it right or just in any way shape or form. And yet, you think what patent trolls are doing is great because it's legal, while what NV supposedly did is incorrect because ICE twisted the laws to make it illegal.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The bulldozer, the troll, and the king...
"Jay, the discussion is about the Protect IP Act. It targets COMMERCIAL infringing, not users. That's the discussion here. Jamie Thomas won't go to prison, but has a hell of a debt to pay. Parse away. Obviously the word stealing makes you uncomfortable. Too bad. You take something of value without compensating the rightful owner you are a thief. You haven't convinced me, nor more than one Senator and one representative that there is any meaningful distinction."
That's not me. I always sign in and use avatar. Still, the AC does bring up the same points. I'd still say if you're talking about Biden, who said the same thing, he's a plagiarist, which hurts his position. He took something of value, tried to make it his own and was caught.
"Admittedly, I'm not as up on the foreign stuff as I should be. But you should check into the results of the crackdown on digital theft in S. Korea. The drop was significant. And it spurred the creation of a great number of legitimate new distribution sources."
Nope. You're relying on an IFPI paper that Karl and I debunked weeks ago.
Karl: But did you notice this little inconsistency?
Recent data indicates that from 2007 to 2008, music piracy increased 52%
- from the Global IP Center whitepaper
The revival of music sales is not solely attributable to the new law, however. Sales rose more steeply between 2007 and 2008, before it came into effect.
- from the Economist article
So, two sources that the A.C. himself posted show a correlation between increased piracy and increased sales
I went through it piece by piece. If someone wants to see it, it's still there in regards to S. Korea.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Amounts admitted in court under oath and you still refuse to believe?
"You are an amazing simpleton. What percentage of infringing content is the backyard, amateur video you describe versus motion pictures with actual production values. Try offering a pirate site that specializes in motion pictures with budgets of $10,000 or less and see how you make out."
Although it is distributed serially over the Internet, Red vs. Blue is also one of the first commercially released products made using machinima, as opposed to a product merely containing machinima. DVDs of the eight completed seasons are sold through Rooster Teeth's official website, as well as at most EB Games, GameStop and Hot Topic stores in the United States.[66] For the DVDs, the episodes of the main storyline are edited together to play continuously as a full-length film. Because the episodes as individually released often contain dialogue that continues into or past the fade to black at the end of the video, Rooster Teeth either removes that dialogue entirely or films extra footage to replace the original fade to black.[67] On April 1, 2008, Rooster Teeth released a box set of all five seasons, including a DVD of new bonus content. In 2010, a remastered box set of the first five seasons was released, with the seasons 1 - 4 completely reshot, featuring a proper 16:9 aspect ratio instead of the highly letterboxed look of the original episodes, and a much higher resolution.
And the production costs are pretty low since it's based on using an established "format" of a Microsoft game engine. Should Microsoft now take them to prison for using it?
Don't get me started with Felicia Day and the Guild that doesn't use major licensing deals.
And don't get me started about how the production values of a movie are supposed to be bared by consumers when that's a sunk cost, that they have never had to bear.
"So what about the drug kingpins and terrorists who have never set forth in the US? They get a pass too?"
Given the fact that as soon as one "kingpin" is taken down another is set up, the FBI uses criminals to set up other felonious acts, the economic downturns of continued selective enforcement, and the fact that NONE of the bureaus have yet to catch actual terrorists, I would say that's a bust. They don't need a pass, they need a change in the system.
On the post: Disney 'Analyst': My Lack Of Imagination Necessitates Passage Of PROTECT IP
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PIPA is FAIL!
What's stopping people from doing that now?
"But because of the easy, open access to cheap or free content that is illegally distributed the whole market gets turned on its ear. "
Misleading at worst, strawman at best. First you talk about how there's other alternatives in place, then you're trying to insinuate that all people move to download when they may find the free alternatives to overpriced goods.
"And I still don't understand how any of this justifies one to unlawfully get something of value without compensating its owner"
Have you looked into why the CD is no longer a viable market for the RIAA? It still does well, but people like mp3s instead of full CDs. And when people FINALLY had good alternatives, instead of being called thieves, the industry made money on it. So people's attitudes and tastes change. The industry has to find ways to meet those people's demands or they will go elsewhere. It's really that simple. The industries aren't entitled to money. They provide a service, same as a pirate does. If the pirate provides a better service, they get the rewards.
Also, sidenote, the US' history was greatly influenced by piracy. The fact is, when the US didn't respect foreign copyrights on books, our book industry flourished and we had more material to work with.
There's also been research that piracy improves products. You don't have to look further than Steam to understand that in the game markets.
And somehow, I think you skip how "compensation" doesn't always necessarily mean "monetary"...
On the post: Disney 'Analyst': My Lack Of Imagination Necessitates Passage Of PROTECT IP
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Rojadirecta was accused of no crimes, but somehow their site was infringing. You can cite the Rule from the FBI handbook all you want, but since the government has taken this aggressive stance they have not had to answer the long, drawn out process which are the domain seizures. They have not answered how they obtained warrants in the domain seizures. They have not answered the rules of how the seizure by its very nature is prior restraint. There have been no adversarial hearings, and quite frankly, this is not a drug crime. They have done something that, while unprecedented, has shown to be incredibly fruitless, ruining people's lives for the sake of Hollywood wanting to turn the clock to the 80s when they were in control of the VCR market.
So until the questions are met, discussed openly and the FBI at the very least allows people to meet the crimes alleged in open court before a domain is seized, your citation of the book is more a deception, intended to make it seem like the rules are "fair". They aren't since NO domain holder had a chance to meet the crimes they were accused of (or even their website's crimes) before it was taken.
On the post: Another NinjaVideo Admin Pleads Guilty, Expect The Rest To Do So Too
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Amounts admitted in court under oath and you still refuse to believe?
" I don't partake or support it. What I do think is that artists would be better off if they embraced what the technology allows and embraced what their fans want."
Amazing, there's been articles where he's defined that position and still he's attacked for it. Why are you so obsessed with calling him a pirate or anything else when he's been pretty consistent with his views on this for (what I assume) has been years?
On the post: Another NinjaVideo Admin Pleads Guilty, Expect The Rest To Do So Too
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Amounts admitted in court under oath and you still refuse to believe?
People do:
Michelle Phan - makes a living with her Youtube presence
Freddie Wong - Makes movies full time
Humble Indie Bundle - Makes millions of dollars on proceeds from people. Freely.
Big Buck Bunny - 200 GB download. Available to anyone with a connection, free time and a desire to watch. This is yet another project from Blender to promote the free open software movement.
Should I go on? Y/N
On the post: Another NinjaVideo Admin Pleads Guilty, Expect The Rest To Do So Too
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Amounts admitted in court under oath and you still refuse to believe?
Because they are so it doesn't affect their own business model?
Have you not paid attention?
On the post: Another NinjaVideo Admin Pleads Guilty, Expect The Rest To Do So Too
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Amounts admitted in court under oath and you still refuse to believe?
So you're not going to acknowledge that there are problems with distribution models that make no sense to the consumer, instead criticizing me for pointing out those flaws. Shoot the messenger much?
"Sometimes legitimate sales are eroded by the widepread, unlawful free availability of the same product the rightful owner seeks to be compensated for."
Prove it.
"I'd suggest that none of the costs you cited come anywhere close to the production costs incurred by the rightful owner on a single film that had a N. American theatrical release.. And let's face it, the enticement for people to freely come to the website is largely dependent on "free" content. Otherwise, the world would be inundated with movie blogs and discussion boards instead of pirate sites."
You ignored the Red v Blue discussion, you ignore the fact that The Guild is free to watch. You ignore the multitude of people making a living on being either a Youtube partner or some kind of producer on free platforms. Put simply, you're ignoring the fact that new content is being created without the end user (ie consumer) worrying about "sunk costs".
"And you should have some respect for the people that have to make their living creating the entertainment that seems to be so important in your life. For every Hollywood millionaire there are hundreds of people struggling to make a middle class living. But the only thing that seems to matter to you is your entitlement to get what you want, when you want it at the price you determine, whether the source is the rightful owner or not. What's remarkable is that I doubt that you carry this attitude around in the other aspects of your life"
Oh please, stop with your entitlement speech. It's not like you care one bit about the people that are making a living through fair use and industries that don't think of a game or movie as the only end product. It's telling that you don't know who Nostalgia Critic is. Go research him and how he describes movies and makes a living. Or watch the Guild for FREE on Felicia Day's website.
Better yet, tell me how people enjoy watching Bad News Bears when it hasn't been in theaters for 20 years and they like their home theater instead of a movie theater.
Maybe if you would answer some questions instead of moralizing and trying to condemn people you'd actually have a better argument.
On the post: Obama Administration To Use ACTA Signing Statement To Defend Why It Can Ignore The Constitution In Signing ACTA
Re: Re: Re: Consistency with US law
I would think the GAO would have some leverage if only there were legislation to give them that.
On the post: Disney 'Analyst': My Lack Of Imagination Necessitates Passage Of PROTECT IP
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PIPA is FAIL!
It's been brought to the attention of Washington that they can't enforce that law. Now let's see them try to arrest someone else when the cops were investigated for what they did.
On the post: Another NinjaVideo Admin Pleads Guilty, Expect The Rest To Do So Too
Re:
On the post: Another NinjaVideo Admin Pleads Guilty, Expect The Rest To Do So Too
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Amounts admitted in court under oath and you still refuse to believe?
No, it's neither non-sequitor nor off topic. You seem to make some kind of argument where pirates just automatically make money off of someone else's work. You're ignoring all the complaints that people have with current distribution models that either rely or copyright or monopolistic pricing.
The problems of windowing, regionalization or high pricing. The problems of unavailability of product, or the ease of finding a movie on the internet versus distributing and easy access by the copyright holder.
From all that you seem to imply, if a movie makes no money, it's because of piracy. If it's just a bad movie, piracy is the scapegoat, which is exactly what I'm criticizing.
And this also ignores that "pirates" have their own sunk costs. They provide a website, pay for the servers, the upkeep, newer features, among a number of other things to entice people to freely come to their website and hang out. And they do this for none or nearly no profit usually.
So a bit of advice? Learn to focus on better arguments that aren't one sided.
On the post: Disney 'Analyst': My Lack Of Imagination Necessitates Passage Of PROTECT IP
Re: Re: Re:
That's an outright lie. Or else, they would be able to face the accuser (ie the government) before prior restraint of their website occurs.
On the post: Obama Administration To Use ACTA Signing Statement To Defend Why It Can Ignore The Constitution In Signing ACTA
Re:
Currently, it's the largest bully of copyright law by a large margin.
On the post: Disney 'Analyst': My Lack Of Imagination Necessitates Passage Of PROTECT IP
PIPA is FAIL! Yep...
What percentage of people moved from Blockbuster to Netflix to "rogue sites?" Why does a percentage matter? It doesn't. The point has been that people are going to move to more alternatives than traditional banking and I'm sure that service providers will respond accordingly. All the enforcement will do is decentralize the money.
"And deterrents."
So has filesharing increased or decreased with the passage of the NET Act, DMCA and all other copyright bills? And given that the death penalty was a deterrent before, it hasn't worked.
"You suggest an immutable law of physics applies to human behavior? "
What, can't understand when anyone tells you "what goes up, must come down?"
"What goes around, comes around?"
"If someone passes a law forbidding a practice, more alternatives pop up?"
On the post: FBI Successful In Breaking Up Yet Another Of Its Own Plots To Bomb The US
Re: Re:
On the post: FBI Successful In Breaking Up Yet Another Of Its Own Plots To Bomb The US
Re: Re:
The main thing terrorists want is the US spending time on taking away American freedoms and showing the hypocrisy of the American government.
It worked perfectly.
On the post: Another NinjaVideo Admin Pleads Guilty, Expect The Rest To Do So Too
Re: Re: Hiding...
I remember an AC pointed me to a discussion of Rick Falkvinge's...
I'm going to post it here because it's quite relevant.
In Iran, it is against the law to execute virgin women. Still, women are being sentenced to death, so the administration have come up with the idea of forcibly marrying them to prison guards the night before the execution. That way, they would no longer be virgins, and so can be legally executed. Two years ago, one such prison guard stepped forward and told his story, about how the women scheduled for execution would typically resist being forcibly married and have forced sex with the prison guards — so the guards would usually administer sedatives to make the legal process easier. Women are eligible for marriage from 9 years of age in Iran.
In nonlegalese, girls as young as nine are lawfully drugged, raped, and shot. (Iran executes in excess of 5,000 women every year.)
What is most striking about this is not the sheer horror of the evil inherent in the system, but the young prison guard’s reflection in the interview:
“The marriages were lawful.“
Here, it becomes painfully obvious that just because something is written into law, it is not good, just, and righteous. But many people who Believe In The Law will refuse to let this obvious counterproof knock them out of their comfort zone, and will therefore and rationalize it as Iran not being applicable, somehow being a barbaric country and not living up to modern, Western standards.
-------------------------------
Falkvinge goes on to explain how there were other countries, even his native Sweden, that had barbaric laws such as forced sterilization.
I'll put a few from the US here.
Jim Crow - The belief that people of different skins could be separated by law.
Executive Order 9066 - The belief that those of Japanese, Italian, or German descent were criminals without any type of due process during WWII. They lost their homes, the ability to move freely during war time and were imprisoned unfairly.
War on Drugs - To sum this up, it's an attack on an idea. The idea that you can morally regulate every person, imprison and reform them, while depriving them of education opportunities, or basic civil rights.
Just because everything is law, does not make it right or just in any way shape or form. And yet, you think what patent trolls are doing is great because it's legal, while what NV supposedly did is incorrect because ICE twisted the laws to make it illegal.
On the post: Disney 'Analyst': My Lack Of Imagination Necessitates Passage Of PROTECT IP
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The bulldozer, the troll, and the king...
That's not me. I always sign in and use avatar. Still, the AC does bring up the same points. I'd still say if you're talking about Biden, who said the same thing, he's a plagiarist, which hurts his position. He took something of value, tried to make it his own and was caught.
On the post: Disney 'Analyst': My Lack Of Imagination Necessitates Passage Of PROTECT IP
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Nope. You're relying on an IFPI paper that Karl and I debunked weeks ago.
Karl: But did you notice this little inconsistency?
Recent data indicates that from 2007 to 2008, music piracy increased 52%
- from the Global IP Center whitepaper
The revival of music sales is not solely attributable to the new law, however. Sales rose more steeply between 2007 and 2008, before it came into effect.
- from the Economist article
So, two sources that the A.C. himself posted show a correlation between increased piracy and increased sales
I went through it piece by piece. If someone wants to see it, it's still there in regards to S. Korea.
On the post: Another NinjaVideo Admin Pleads Guilty, Expect The Rest To Do So Too
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Amounts admitted in court under oath and you still refuse to believe?
Red vs Blue
Red vs Blue DVDs
Red Vs Blue Season 1
Red vs Blue Distribution:
Although it is distributed serially over the Internet, Red vs. Blue is also one of the first commercially released products made using machinima, as opposed to a product merely containing machinima. DVDs of the eight completed seasons are sold through Rooster Teeth's official website, as well as at most EB Games, GameStop and Hot Topic stores in the United States.[66] For the DVDs, the episodes of the main storyline are edited together to play continuously as a full-length film. Because the episodes as individually released often contain dialogue that continues into or past the fade to black at the end of the video, Rooster Teeth either removes that dialogue entirely or films extra footage to replace the original fade to black.[67] On April 1, 2008, Rooster Teeth released a box set of all five seasons, including a DVD of new bonus content. In 2010, a remastered box set of the first five seasons was released, with the seasons 1 - 4 completely reshot, featuring a proper 16:9 aspect ratio instead of the highly letterboxed look of the original episodes, and a much higher resolution.
And the production costs are pretty low since it's based on using an established "format" of a Microsoft game engine. Should Microsoft now take them to prison for using it?
Don't get me started with Felicia Day and the Guild that doesn't use major licensing deals.
And don't get me started about how the production values of a movie are supposed to be bared by consumers when that's a sunk cost, that they have never had to bear.
On the post: Disney 'Analyst': My Lack Of Imagination Necessitates Passage Of PROTECT IP
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Given the fact that as soon as one "kingpin" is taken down another is set up, the FBI uses criminals to set up other felonious acts, the economic downturns of continued selective enforcement, and the fact that NONE of the bureaus have yet to catch actual terrorists, I would say that's a bust. They don't need a pass, they need a change in the system.
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