Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 9 Jun 2020 @ 3:44pm
Re:
"That the system is being violent regardless makes no difference."
It makes all the difference. That is would be more effective (long term) to protest in a non-violent way, violence against property does not warrant execution. That you, and many law enforcement officers, and way too many of our politicians think it is, is a huge part of the problem.
Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 9 Jun 2020 @ 2:57pm
Re:
Trump may be clearly a threat, but he is not the only one. Systemic authoritarianism has been building for a long time, and neither side of the aisle has be clearly opposed. Some, for sure, but without the many we would not have things like the FISA court, or the Patriot Act, or many other bad laws. Not to mention all the corporate favors done because of the corruption of the political process with dirty, filthy money.
Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 9 Jun 2020 @ 12:10pm
Re: Peaceful is not the end of the story
Those curfews may be lawful, but are they moral? On one hand we could argue that they were meant to stop violence and looting, on the other hand they are a way for the authoritarians to express their authoritarianism. If the latter is true, why shouldn't those curfews be protested, peacefully, along with other issues?
I do not believe that any of these protests have just one single agenda. I believe that people are out there for a multitude of reasons, many of which revolve around authoritarianism.
Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 9 Jun 2020 @ 11:19am
Being a bully doesn't stop bullying
"Peaceful Protests Around The Nation Are Being Greeted By Police Violence. Remind Me Again How Peaceful Protests Are Better?"
One of the points of peaceful protest in the current state of things (and even for prior advocates and practice of peaceful protest) is that it puts the protesters in a different light than law enforcement. To be the 'bigger person', to have 'greater character', to 'behave more ethically', to 'be better'. That some extremists involve themselves in the protests and do harmful things such as violence and looting makes a statement about themselves, but not all protesters. It also gives cover to bad behavior on the other side.
I hear a lot of talk about the protests being about BLM, but I think there is more than one thread to these protests. They are not just about racism, but also about authoritarianism. They are about the police 'respect mah authoritay'. They are about the police unions, and administrations, and the prosecutors, and courts who don't hold officers who commit bad acts accountable. They are about the militarization of police departments. They are about the propensity to shoot (whether taser or gun no matter) first and forget about other techniques. They are about the First Rule of Policing (get home for dinner tonight) rather than everyone gets dinner tonight, either at home or in jail if appropriate. They are about the lack of necessity for the police to know the law while mere citizens are required to. They are about the misuse of asset forfeiture. They are about the almost ubiquitous surveillance without cause. They are about a whole host of things that have more to do with excessive power rather than protecting and serving. Hell, the police as a representation of authoritarianism is just one example and given the copyright industries extra judicial stranglehold over culture or the inability for the government to recognize inappropriate monopolies and/or the compromise of legislative processes via corporate or special interest corruption we might say those are also contributing, but underlying aspects of the public rage.
Someone came up with 'All Lives Matter', which they do, but that phrase has been co opted by some to mean only specific lives whereas it should be taken for what it says. All lives matter and the police should be admonished to behave accordingly. The police don't just kill black, brown, yellow, (or whatever criteria) minorities (religion or national origin or etc.) might be defined as. They also kill whites and Christians. They should employ deescalation rather than force. They should respect Constitutional restrictions rather than trying to fudge their way around them. They should treat each and every citizen, suspected criminal or not, as they would a treasured member of their own family, and react with force only when all other options have been judiciously expended, not when it is most expedient. And, as pointed out in the recent John Oliver piece, it is the system that allows or even encourages bad things to happen. We need to make changes at a systemic level.
The point of non-violent protest is to be better, and when the police act aggressively, or violently anyway, holding the ground of non-violence will, in the long run (sometimes very long), make a greater statement than succumbing to 'well they did it first' childish reactions. Some say one stands up to a bully. That may be correct, but there is more than one way to stand up to a bully. That people get injured or killed by those bully's is terrible, but acting as a bully oneself is just as terrible. Be better.
Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 8 Jun 2020 @ 5:36pm
Re: Re: Re:
That's your interpretation. I bet that if you asked each of those with defund the police signs out on the protests you would get a different answer.
The real problem is coming up with a cohesive methodology for correcting the systemic problems and then, once that is agreed upon, finding a way to do it, and then actually doing it. Are you going to be a contributor or a dissembler?
Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 8 Jun 2020 @ 4:56pm
Re:
Defund the police could mean removing money spent on military hardware, either to acquire or maintain. Defund the police could mean not paying for any training that doesn't emphasize deescalation as a first step. Defund the police could mean reducing the force by the size of their swat and/or anti-terror and/or any squad that is specifically trained to confront mobs or has snipers.
Defund the police could mean a lot of things, and if you watched the video, or read the article you would have an inkling from the mention of the Camden NJ police department that was disbanded and reconstituted or the NYC police department work slow down that didn't create an increase in crime and that changing the staff or size doesn't mean no more police.
Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 8 Jun 2020 @ 4:39pm
Trademarked for what markets?
Wouldn't the trademark registration for 'MAGA' have to include the market for cartoons for it to be a valid take down request?
Could someone who understands how to use that site (I have tried and been defeated) first if such a trademark exists and if it does for what uses it was registered for?
Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 8 Jun 2020 @ 2:53pm
Re: Re: Re: Things to do list
It's been a while but I have been an employer in both right to work and employment at will states. While there are differences in each and every one of them, for me the basic difference is being able to fire someone for any reason or no reason at all, rather than having to prove some infraction or misconduct. That is why my proposal is that it should be easier to fire police, rather than more difficult.
Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 8 Jun 2020 @ 2:26pm
Re: Police unions 90% of the problem
Remember that qualified immunity is about civil action, not criminal. The bigger issue is that the behavior of prosecutors and courts often leave civil action as the only recourse, and while that action should not be precluded, it is much worse that the criminal process fails many too many times.
Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 8 Jun 2020 @ 2:21pm
Re: Things to do list
Oh, I should add that new hires should be under an employment at will contract even in right to work states with failure to follow laws or rules or policy subject to immediate, irrevocable dismissal, and loss of license to operate in any law enforcement capacity, including security guard.
Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 8 Jun 2020 @ 2:14pm
Things to do list
I like the idea of dissolving police departments, then rehiring those that deserve it (anyone with any use of force issues or other complaints ineligible). Two caveats though, none of the upper echelons should be eligible for rehire (they allowed the problems to continue if they didn't actually instigate the problems) and the union contracts should be dissolved at the same time with a ban on future contracts.
We probably shouldn't dissolve all police departments at the same time, but I fear how the decision of what order to do so in will be made, and by whom. And I go along with aerinai's idea of separating out those areas of policing where it makes sense (traffic, animal control, mental health counselors, etc.), funded by fewer regular police.
Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 8 Jun 2020 @ 11:09am
Unopposed
All he has to do then is vote for himself and he wins, but wouldn't it be (unlikely but) exquisite if the election returns show that there was indeed only 1 vote for him?
Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 6 Jun 2020 @ 5:34pm
Re:
He has one point:
"Focusing solely on the end is incomplete, justifies the narrative whereby it is acceptable to commit OTHER crimes in the name of 'justice' and doesn't actually focus on where the real problem lies -- attitudes and inherent thinking, poor training and the militarization of the group of people who are supposed to be focused on protecting the rights of those who do NOT have a gun and badge so we can all live peaceably."
Whether the cause of death was the windpipe or the carotid artery is meaningless. The man would not be dead without the cop kneeling on his neck. But what brought that on is an important point, and getting to that nitty gritty won't be easy. We can point to the police administrators that don't hold their officers accountable, we can point to the police unions that keep bad officers on the force, we can point to theoretically 'good' officers who should stop bad officers from doing bad things but don't, we can point to the supposed 'law and order' prosecutors who don't manage to get convictions on officers who finally get charged with crimes, and etc.. We could go on and on. But what is the root cause?
Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 6 Jun 2020 @ 1:56pm
Re: Re: Why don't we try and copyright nature, not a picture, bu
I was going to mention this. To some, IP maximalists, everything must be owned. Even nature. They're wrong, but to get them to understand this we must retake control of our compromised governments.
Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 5 Jun 2020 @ 6:45pm
Your either for our authoritarianism, or your a traitor.
"This was multiple levels of fucked up, both in terms of what happened and who was involved. It's not clear which law enforcement agency seized the masks but it all started with the US Postal Service's "inspection" unit (USPIS), which apparently flagged the items as somehow illegal and/or dangerous."
I wonder what was said to the USPIS person to get them to perform this seizure, and who said it? Then, what was that USPIS agent thinking that this was OK. One would think that inspectors would have a better grasp of the laws than say delivery persons?
However, I suspect that the 'government' will claim that it is classified due to their actions being all about putting down an insurrection, and it is need to know, and that the people suing them have no need to know as they were the people putting on the insurrection. It won't be the first case to find out how heavy handed the government will play this, but I think it might be an important one.
Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 5 Jun 2020 @ 6:29pm
Why don't we try and copyright nature, not a picture, but nature
I'll go one step further. The likelihood that two plating's of the same dish are identical are rather low. I mean identical in that plate #1, served at the beginning of the meal period and photographed, and plate #2 served at the end of the meal period and also photographed. Then when those two photographs are compared that differences cannot be discerned is nigh on impossible. (If you doubt me, try plating a banquet for 500 and get every plate to look exactly the same, even if they all get the same meal). That then means that each and every plate would have to have its own copyright applied for. And, with an average of four months to obtain the copyright for either of the plating's, the 'fixed' part would be rancid.
Then there is the idea that, for example, a dish garnished with say a basil leaf, would require that each and every basil leaf be an exact duplicate of the others is shear lunacy. Nature does not work that way.
So let's try to be a bit more reasonable. Let's say that it's the 'design' of the plating is what is being copyrighted and that that allows for some wiggle room that allows for differences that nature produces and the fact that one service plated while the 'artist' is fresh and the other when the 'artist' is tired. Then what are we left with? The main part of the dish goes in the middle, or left, or right, or top, or bottom and the garnish goes opposite, or next to, or on top, then those 'aspects' of plating would become unusable for any other chef, and eventually, when all the compass points have been registered other chefs would have to move on to square plates, or bowls, or oval plates, or specially design table ware that is unique to their restaurant. Then when all of those have been claimed, are the rest of restaurants just out of luck?
Now let's consider the length of copyright. Life of the chef plus 75 years. The restaurant industry would have to close down. Oh, then there are all those corporate copyright holders who will want to get their hands on these brand new copyright forms, everything must be owned, doncha know. How about a chef who works for a hotel? Is it then a work for hire? If yes, then the only way a chef's creativity get the protection is if he owns his own restaurant and works for himself.
This is an industry that gives competition to the worlds oldest profession for longevity, and it hasn't needed copyright so far. Just what is the pressing need for it now?
On the post: Peaceful Protests Around The Nation Are Being Greeted By Police Violence. Remind Me Again How Peaceful Protests Are Better?
Re:
It makes all the difference. That is would be more effective (long term) to protest in a non-violent way, violence against property does not warrant execution. That you, and many law enforcement officers, and way too many of our politicians think it is, is a huge part of the problem.
On the post: Peaceful Protests Around The Nation Are Being Greeted By Police Violence. Remind Me Again How Peaceful Protests Are Better?
Re:
Trump may be clearly a threat, but he is not the only one. Systemic authoritarianism has been building for a long time, and neither side of the aisle has be clearly opposed. Some, for sure, but without the many we would not have things like the FISA court, or the Patriot Act, or many other bad laws. Not to mention all the corporate favors done because of the corruption of the political process with dirty, filthy money.
On the post: Peaceful Protests Around The Nation Are Being Greeted By Police Violence. Remind Me Again How Peaceful Protests Are Better?
Re: Peaceful is not the end of the story
Those curfews may be lawful, but are they moral? On one hand we could argue that they were meant to stop violence and looting, on the other hand they are a way for the authoritarians to express their authoritarianism. If the latter is true, why shouldn't those curfews be protested, peacefully, along with other issues?
I do not believe that any of these protests have just one single agenda. I believe that people are out there for a multitude of reasons, many of which revolve around authoritarianism.
On the post: Peaceful Protests Around The Nation Are Being Greeted By Police Violence. Remind Me Again How Peaceful Protests Are Better?
Re: Re: How to protest the police
In the end then, not peaceful and maybe admitting that their intentions were not in fact peaceful.
On the post: Peaceful Protests Around The Nation Are Being Greeted By Police Violence. Remind Me Again How Peaceful Protests Are Better?
Being a bully doesn't stop bullying
One of the points of peaceful protest in the current state of things (and even for prior advocates and practice of peaceful protest) is that it puts the protesters in a different light than law enforcement. To be the 'bigger person', to have 'greater character', to 'behave more ethically', to 'be better'. That some extremists involve themselves in the protests and do harmful things such as violence and looting makes a statement about themselves, but not all protesters. It also gives cover to bad behavior on the other side.
I hear a lot of talk about the protests being about BLM, but I think there is more than one thread to these protests. They are not just about racism, but also about authoritarianism. They are about the police 'respect mah authoritay'. They are about the police unions, and administrations, and the prosecutors, and courts who don't hold officers who commit bad acts accountable. They are about the militarization of police departments. They are about the propensity to shoot (whether taser or gun no matter) first and forget about other techniques. They are about the First Rule of Policing (get home for dinner tonight) rather than everyone gets dinner tonight, either at home or in jail if appropriate. They are about the lack of necessity for the police to know the law while mere citizens are required to. They are about the misuse of asset forfeiture. They are about the almost ubiquitous surveillance without cause. They are about a whole host of things that have more to do with excessive power rather than protecting and serving. Hell, the police as a representation of authoritarianism is just one example and given the copyright industries extra judicial stranglehold over culture or the inability for the government to recognize inappropriate monopolies and/or the compromise of legislative processes via corporate or special interest corruption we might say those are also contributing, but underlying aspects of the public rage.
Someone came up with 'All Lives Matter', which they do, but that phrase has been co opted by some to mean only specific lives whereas it should be taken for what it says. All lives matter and the police should be admonished to behave accordingly. The police don't just kill black, brown, yellow, (or whatever criteria) minorities (religion or national origin or etc.) might be defined as. They also kill whites and Christians. They should employ deescalation rather than force. They should respect Constitutional restrictions rather than trying to fudge their way around them. They should treat each and every citizen, suspected criminal or not, as they would a treasured member of their own family, and react with force only when all other options have been judiciously expended, not when it is most expedient. And, as pointed out in the recent John Oliver piece, it is the system that allows or even encourages bad things to happen. We need to make changes at a systemic level.
The point of non-violent protest is to be better, and when the police act aggressively, or violently anyway, holding the ground of non-violence will, in the long run (sometimes very long), make a greater statement than succumbing to 'well they did it first' childish reactions. Some say one stands up to a bully. That may be correct, but there is more than one way to stand up to a bully. That people get injured or killed by those bully's is terrible, but acting as a bully oneself is just as terrible. Be better.
On the post: John Oliver Says What Needs To Be Said About Why Defunding The Police Is The Right Thing Right Now
Re: Re: Re:
That's your interpretation. I bet that if you asked each of those with defund the police signs out on the protests you would get a different answer.
The real problem is coming up with a cohesive methodology for correcting the systemic problems and then, once that is agreed upon, finding a way to do it, and then actually doing it. Are you going to be a contributor or a dissembler?
On the post: John Oliver Says What Needs To Be Said About Why Defunding The Police Is The Right Thing Right Now
Re:
Defund the police could mean removing money spent on military hardware, either to acquire or maintain. Defund the police could mean not paying for any training that doesn't emphasize deescalation as a first step. Defund the police could mean reducing the force by the size of their swat and/or anti-terror and/or any squad that is specifically trained to confront mobs or has snipers.
Defund the police could mean a lot of things, and if you watched the video, or read the article you would have an inkling from the mention of the Camden NJ police department that was disbanded and reconstituted or the NYC police department work slow down that didn't create an increase in crime and that changing the staff or size doesn't mean no more police.
On the post: Trump Campaign Gets Parody Cartoon Taken Down Off Redbubble Over Trademark Claim On MAGA Hats
Trademarked for what markets?
Wouldn't the trademark registration for 'MAGA' have to include the market for cartoons for it to be a valid take down request?
Could someone who understands how to use that site (I have tried and been defeated) first if such a trademark exists and if it does for what uses it was registered for?
On the post: John Oliver Says What Needs To Be Said About Why Defunding The Police Is The Right Thing Right Now
Re: Re: Re: Things to do list
It's been a while but I have been an employer in both right to work and employment at will states. While there are differences in each and every one of them, for me the basic difference is being able to fire someone for any reason or no reason at all, rather than having to prove some infraction or misconduct. That is why my proposal is that it should be easier to fire police, rather than more difficult.
On the post: Sheriff Goes All In On Violating The First Amendment After Assaulting A Protester For Carrying A 'F*CK TRUMP' Sign
Re:
Just who is going to charge and/or arrest the sheriff? Then, if it does happen, where will those 12 jurors be gleaned from?
On the post: John Oliver Says What Needs To Be Said About Why Defunding The Police Is The Right Thing Right Now
Re: Police unions 90% of the problem
Remember that qualified immunity is about civil action, not criminal. The bigger issue is that the behavior of prosecutors and courts often leave civil action as the only recourse, and while that action should not be precluded, it is much worse that the criminal process fails many too many times.
On the post: John Oliver Says What Needs To Be Said About Why Defunding The Police Is The Right Thing Right Now
Re: Things to do list
Oh, I should add that new hires should be under an employment at will contract even in right to work states with failure to follow laws or rules or policy subject to immediate, irrevocable dismissal, and loss of license to operate in any law enforcement capacity, including security guard.
On the post: John Oliver Says What Needs To Be Said About Why Defunding The Police Is The Right Thing Right Now
Things to do list
I like the idea of dissolving police departments, then rehiring those that deserve it (anyone with any use of force issues or other complaints ineligible). Two caveats though, none of the upper echelons should be eligible for rehire (they allowed the problems to continue if they didn't actually instigate the problems) and the union contracts should be dissolved at the same time with a ban on future contracts.
We probably shouldn't dissolve all police departments at the same time, but I fear how the decision of what order to do so in will be made, and by whom. And I go along with aerinai's idea of separating out those areas of policing where it makes sense (traffic, animal control, mental health counselors, etc.), funded by fewer regular police.
On the post: Sheriff Goes All In On Violating The First Amendment After Assaulting A Protester For Carrying A 'F*CK TRUMP' Sign
Unopposed
All he has to do then is vote for himself and he wins, but wouldn't it be (unlikely but) exquisite if the election returns show that there was indeed only 1 vote for him?
On the post: Don Henley Tells Senators: We Must Change Copyright Law... Because The People Like TikTok?
Re: This phenomenon needs a name
How about:
Stop All Progress Protectionist Schema (SAPPS)
On the post: #NoRightsMatter: US Postal Service, Law Enforcement Team Up To Seize 'Black Lives Matter' Facemasks
Re:
He has one point:
Whether the cause of death was the windpipe or the carotid artery is meaningless. The man would not be dead without the cop kneeling on his neck. But what brought that on is an important point, and getting to that nitty gritty won't be easy. We can point to the police administrators that don't hold their officers accountable, we can point to the police unions that keep bad officers on the force, we can point to theoretically 'good' officers who should stop bad officers from doing bad things but don't, we can point to the supposed 'law and order' prosecutors who don't manage to get convictions on officers who finally get charged with crimes, and etc.. We could go on and on. But what is the root cause?
On the post: No, California Law Review, Food Plating Does Not Deserve Copyright Protection
Re: Re:
I thought about that, but then realized I needed a license to do so. I cannot for the life of me figure out where to apply for that license.
On the post: No, California Law Review, Food Plating Does Not Deserve Copyright Protection
Re: Re: Why don't we try and copyright nature, not a picture, bu
I was going to mention this. To some, IP maximalists, everything must be owned. Even nature. They're wrong, but to get them to understand this we must retake control of our compromised governments.
On the post: #NoRightsMatter: US Postal Service, Law Enforcement Team Up To Seize 'Black Lives Matter' Facemasks
Your either for our authoritarianism, or your a traitor.
I wonder what was said to the USPIS person to get them to perform this seizure, and who said it? Then, what was that USPIS agent thinking that this was OK. One would think that inspectors would have a better grasp of the laws than say delivery persons?
However, I suspect that the 'government' will claim that it is classified due to their actions being all about putting down an insurrection, and it is need to know, and that the people suing them have no need to know as they were the people putting on the insurrection. It won't be the first case to find out how heavy handed the government will play this, but I think it might be an important one.
On the post: No, California Law Review, Food Plating Does Not Deserve Copyright Protection
Why don't we try and copyright nature, not a picture, but nature
I'll go one step further. The likelihood that two plating's of the same dish are identical are rather low. I mean identical in that plate #1, served at the beginning of the meal period and photographed, and plate #2 served at the end of the meal period and also photographed. Then when those two photographs are compared that differences cannot be discerned is nigh on impossible. (If you doubt me, try plating a banquet for 500 and get every plate to look exactly the same, even if they all get the same meal). That then means that each and every plate would have to have its own copyright applied for. And, with an average of four months to obtain the copyright for either of the plating's, the 'fixed' part would be rancid.
Then there is the idea that, for example, a dish garnished with say a basil leaf, would require that each and every basil leaf be an exact duplicate of the others is shear lunacy. Nature does not work that way.
So let's try to be a bit more reasonable. Let's say that it's the 'design' of the plating is what is being copyrighted and that that allows for some wiggle room that allows for differences that nature produces and the fact that one service plated while the 'artist' is fresh and the other when the 'artist' is tired. Then what are we left with? The main part of the dish goes in the middle, or left, or right, or top, or bottom and the garnish goes opposite, or next to, or on top, then those 'aspects' of plating would become unusable for any other chef, and eventually, when all the compass points have been registered other chefs would have to move on to square plates, or bowls, or oval plates, or specially design table ware that is unique to their restaurant. Then when all of those have been claimed, are the rest of restaurants just out of luck?
Now let's consider the length of copyright. Life of the chef plus 75 years. The restaurant industry would have to close down. Oh, then there are all those corporate copyright holders who will want to get their hands on these brand new copyright forms, everything must be owned, doncha know. How about a chef who works for a hotel? Is it then a work for hire? If yes, then the only way a chef's creativity get the protection is if he owns his own restaurant and works for himself.
This is an industry that gives competition to the worlds oldest profession for longevity, and it hasn't needed copyright so far. Just what is the pressing need for it now?
Next >>