Do you mean trump and Macron, Trump and Le Pen or Macron and Le Pen?
Problem is that politics is not a one dimensional thing - and as Bill Clinton pointed out the economy tends to trump other issues.
Macron is socially liberal and internationalist - but he is also a right wing technocrat economically.
Le Pen leads a party that has historically been xenophobic maybe even racist, although she would deny that that opinion survives fairly vociferously - after all she did expel her own father from the party in order to make the point. However economically she is left wing and quite socialist.
It would be very surprising if the only one that was dodgy was the Russian one - or maybe all those other countries intervened in the election too.
And by the way the existence of these dodgy Russian oligarchs is a direct consequence of the US attempt to turn Russia into an extreme capitalism experimental laboratory during the 90's.
Except that Le Pen's economic policies are actually closer to Bernie Sanders than Trump, protect France's 35 hour week and early retirement and Macron's economics have turned out to be quite similar to Trump, tax breaks for the rich and cuts in public spending.
Most often it means fabricated versions of events that do really happen. In other words it is lazy media who re-create something because reporting the real story is too hard.
On other occasions it can mean the faking of extra instances of (real) events in order to reinforce a point of view.
Note that in both cases the fake news has little trouble getting past a threshold of plausibility because reality has already prepared the ground
you're criticising people for speaking out about long-standing issues.
NO I AM NOT.
I never criticised anyone - for protesting. I merely queried why.
You read that as a criticism - it was never internded as such.
So? Do successful people lose the right to protest on behalf of people who haven't had it as good as them now?
Where did I say that?
You seem very good at pulling out famous cases that many would see as the exceptions to the rule. I suspect that if you took an overview of all cases, however, there would be less of those exceptions and disproportionately more of the rest, which is the point.
btw it's "fewer" not "less"
None of the deaths - black or white are anything other than exceptions to the rule, unlike in earlier times. The number of such cases is (thankfully) small enough that no kind of valid statistically analysis is possible.
I thought when I put in the first comment that a mindless knee-jerk reaction from someone like you was quite likely - and you did fall for it hook line and sinker.
I was trying to raise the issue of the social dynamics that creates these protetsts at certain times and places and amongst certain groups. How does technology influence things, for example? But Oh no - you had to interpret the comment another way.
Actually I suspect that these protests are happening now because the african american community is actually now more powerful and self confident now than it has ever been and feels able to protest at things that it would have simply accepted in the past. The fact that it is powerful and wealthy members of the community that are taking the lead here speaks volumes.
Where in my profile can you tell what race/colour I am?
Privilege comes in many shapes and sizes. I am lucky to have been born where I was and of parents who valued education and had the resources to enable me to progress. Earlier generations in my family did not have these advantages and had a harder time as a result. Most of all I am lucky to have been born in the 20th century rather than any earlier time.
Isolating one form of privilege in order to make an ad hominem political point is disgraceful.
Your theories on why Blacks are affected by some things are wholly incorrect.
Since I only had one theory, and you sort of partially approved it anyway. I don't understand what you mean there - plus you never explained why or offered an alternative.
Also, some people may have had some weird sense of hope, having a Black president for 8 years.
cf women and Margaret Thatcher - it doesn't work like that in practice.
our comment reminds me of the backlash against the people who came out against Harvey Weinstein. Somehow, it's not good enough for them to relay their message clearly and protest peacefully against injustice, it's all for naught if they didn't also do it at the right time as determined by random measures. Doesn't matter if they are just or right, they should shut up because they didn't speak up sooner.
Now go back and read what I ACTUALLY said before you lump me in with a bunch of people that you knee-jerk disapprove of.
The point is that there has been a steady drip drip of these events over the years - so I wondered: "Why now?" and also why this particular form of protest.
What is wrong with posing those questions?
Lets face it these sportmen are all highly paid "winners". For the most part they personally are not affected by these problems (not so true back in the days of Tommie Smith). In fact these are people at the level of society where they can literally get away with murder and ironically they can leverage the spectre of anti-black discrimination as part of the strategy to do it (cf OJ Simpson).
The fact remains that if (as in the UK) the police were not routinely armed then a large part of the problem could not happen. In those cases where firearms are not part of the problem then the police tendency to regard (by default) anyone that they encounter who is not "one of them" as a suspect is the root of the problem. (cf the Tomlinson case in London and one or two personal dealings that I have had with the police) It may be amplified by racial factors but the problem would remain even if those were not present.
There a 51 countries in the Organisation of Islamic Co-operation where the proportion of adults who believe angels are real surpasses the US. So you are at best 52nd in that category.
(NB if you are officially a Muslim then it is an absolute requirement of the faith to believe that the Koran was given to Mohamet by an Angel) and in all those countries more than half the population is officially Muslim.
I'd agree that Obama's health initiaive was a big step forward - and am heartened by the fack that Trump and the Republicans can agree about how to change/replace it.
However the healthcare/political culture in the US meant that Obama's plan was always going to be flawed "the best he could get away with".
In the UK I dream about an NHS with US levels of health spending (relative to GDP of course). You spend about twice as much as we do and a big chunk of your population is still not properly covered.
Our government isn’t perfect, but it's still the best country in the world and I think we need to be respectful of it
Given the lack of affordable healthcare for a good chunk of the population and the risk that, even if you think you are properly insured, a major health issue can easily bankrupt you.
Given that the US is by a country mile the leading practitioner of judicial murder (aka capital punishment) outside the islamic/communist world.
Given that even the left in America seems to ne spectacularly intolerant of opposing views.
At the time black people in America were only just beginning to emerge from segregation.
Since then a lot has changed for the better - so why now?
I realise that there has been a lot of publicity and some high profile cases of police heavy handed trigger happiness. However it seems to me that the base problem here is the police's tendency to shoot first and ask questions afterwards. You do not have to be black to encounter this problem and the policeman does not have to be white to cause it.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/28/justine-damond-shooting-prosecutor-delays-decisi on-mohamed-noor
It has affected blacks disproportionately because of more general economic disadvantage which causes their communities to interact with law enforcement to a greater extent.
Now if you say that it is actually a protest about that economic dosadvantage itself then I would reply "So why protest now? Given that this disadvantage has been slowly decreasing for the last 50 years it would have made more sense to have continued Tommie Smith's protest for the whole of the last 50 years rather than to resart it now.
On the post: Really Bad Ideas: French President Macron Wants To Ban 'Fake News' During The Election
Re: Re: Re:
Problem is that politics is not a one dimensional thing - and as Bill Clinton pointed out the economy tends to trump other issues.
Macron is socially liberal and internationalist - but he is also a right wing technocrat economically.
Le Pen leads a party that has historically been xenophobic maybe even racist, although she would deny that that opinion survives fairly vociferously - after all she did expel her own father from the party in order to make the point. However economically she is left wing and quite socialist.
On the post: Really Bad Ideas: French President Macron Wants To Ban 'Fake News' During The Election
Re: Re: Re: Re: Macron is an inherited 1-percenter and a globalist. -- And none too popular in France now he's been found out.
Because Clinton was going to be tough on Russia. Clintons was going to be irresponsibly provocative to Russia - risking war.
Personally I'm quite grateful that that didn't happen.
On the post: Really Bad Ideas: French President Macron Wants To Ban 'Fake News' During The Election
Re: Re: Re: Re: Macron is an inherited 1-percenter and a globalist. -- And none too popular in France now he's been found out.
http://time.com/4629308/donald-trump-business-deals-world-map/
It would be very surprising if the only one that was dodgy was the Russian one - or maybe all those other countries intervened in the election too.
And by the way the existence of these dodgy Russian oligarchs is a direct consequence of the US attempt to turn Russia into an extreme capitalism experimental laboratory during the 90's.
What goes around comes around.
On the post: Really Bad Ideas: French President Macron Wants To Ban 'Fake News' During The Election
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Macron is an inherited 1-percenter and a globalist. -- And none too popular in France now he's been found out.
On the post: Really Bad Ideas: French President Macron Wants To Ban 'Fake News' During The Election
Re: Re: Re: Re: Macron is an inherited 1-percenter and a globalist. -- And none too popular in France now he's been found out.
"because he expressed positive sentiments toward them and so they had reason to think he would improve relations"
In other words exactly the same kind of reasons as the US has when it meddles in other peoples elections.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/americas-long-history-of-meddling-in-other-countr ies-elections
So my message to the US would be "live with it - you do it yourself so don't be surprised when someone does it to you"
On the post: Really Bad Ideas: French President Macron Wants To Ban 'Fake News' During The Election
Re:
_"French Trump-like figure"
He/she is called Le Pen._
Except that Le Pen's economic policies are actually closer to Bernie Sanders than Trump, protect France's 35 hour week and early retirement and Macron's economics have turned out to be quite similar to Trump, tax breaks for the rich and cuts in public spending.
On the post: Really Bad Ideas: French President Macron Wants To Ban 'Fake News' During The Election
Re: Re: Re: Macron is an inherited 1-percenter and a globalist. -- And none too popular in France now he's been found out.
http://stone-junction.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/technical-PR-and-branding.html
Except that in this case the PR is getting thin.
On the post: Really Bad Ideas: French President Macron Wants To Ban 'Fake News' During The Election
Re: Re: Macron is an inherited 1-percenter and a globalist. -- And none too popular in France now he's been found out.
He is not entirely mad - since the last part of his claim seems to be largely true:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/04/emmanuel-macron-appeal-worn-thin-poll-ra tings
On the post: Really Bad Ideas: French President Macron Wants To Ban 'Fake News' During The Election
Re:
On other occasions it can mean the faking of extra instances of (real) events in order to reinforce a point of view.
Note that in both cases the fake news has little trouble getting past a threshold of plausibility because reality has already prepared the ground
On the post: Really Bad Ideas: French President Macron Wants To Ban 'Fake News' During The Election
Re: Re: Macron is an inherited 1-percenter and a globalist. -- And none too popular in France now he's been found out.
It would help if the evidence for that collusion didn't keep growing.
Answer me this:
Why would the Russians have an interest in getting Trump elected?
On the post: Indiana Legislator Wants To Force NFL Team To Hand Out Refunds To Fans 'Offended' By Kneeling Players
Re: Re: Re: Re: Puzzled by this protest
you're criticising people for speaking out about long-standing issues.
NO I AM NOT.
I never criticised anyone - for protesting. I merely queried why.
You read that as a criticism - it was never internded as such.
So? Do successful people lose the right to protest on behalf of people who haven't had it as good as them now? Where did I say that?
You seem very good at pulling out famous cases that many would see as the exceptions to the rule. I suspect that if you took an overview of all cases, however, there would be less of those exceptions and disproportionately more of the rest, which is the point.
btw it's "fewer" not "less" None of the deaths - black or white are anything other than exceptions to the rule, unlike in earlier times. The number of such cases is (thankfully) small enough that no kind of valid statistically analysis is possible.
I thought when I put in the first comment that a mindless knee-jerk reaction from someone like you was quite likely - and you did fall for it hook line and sinker.
I was trying to raise the issue of the social dynamics that creates these protetsts at certain times and places and amongst certain groups. How does technology influence things, for example? But Oh no - you had to interpret the comment another way.
Actually I suspect that these protests are happening now because the african american community is actually now more powerful and self confident now than it has ever been and feels able to protest at things that it would have simply accepted in the past. The fact that it is powerful and wealthy members of the community that are taking the lead here speaks volumes.
On the post: Indiana Legislator Wants To Force NFL Team To Hand Out Refunds To Fans 'Offended' By Kneeling Players
Re: Re: Puzzled by this protest
So you do not recognize your white privilege,
Where in my profile can you tell what race/colour I am?
Privilege comes in many shapes and sizes. I am lucky to have been born where I was and of parents who valued education and had the resources to enable me to progress. Earlier generations in my family did not have these advantages and had a harder time as a result. Most of all I am lucky to have been born in the 20th century rather than any earlier time.
Isolating one form of privilege in order to make an ad hominem political point is disgraceful.
On the post: Indiana Legislator Wants To Force NFL Team To Hand Out Refunds To Fans 'Offended' By Kneeling Players
Re: Re: Puzzled by this protest
Your theories on why Blacks are affected by some things are wholly incorrect.
Since I only had one theory, and you sort of partially approved it anyway. I don't understand what you mean there - plus you never explained why or offered an alternative.
Also, some people may have had some weird sense of hope, having a Black president for 8 years.
cf women and Margaret Thatcher - it doesn't work like that in practice.
On the post: Indiana Legislator Wants To Force NFL Team To Hand Out Refunds To Fans 'Offended' By Kneeling Players
Re: Re: Puzzled by this protest
I am puzzled as to why the national anthem is played at sporting events.
When all the participants are from the same country!
Understandable to play anthems of participating countries at true international events - but in parochial, pointless US only sport??
On the post: Indiana Legislator Wants To Force NFL Team To Hand Out Refunds To Fans 'Offended' By Kneeling Players
Re: Re: Puzzled by this protest
our comment reminds me of the backlash against the people who came out against Harvey Weinstein. Somehow, it's not good enough for them to relay their message clearly and protest peacefully against injustice, it's all for naught if they didn't also do it at the right time as determined by random measures. Doesn't matter if they are just or right, they should shut up because they didn't speak up sooner.
Now go back and read what I ACTUALLY said before you lump me in with a bunch of people that you knee-jerk disapprove of. The point is that there has been a steady drip drip of these events over the years - so I wondered: "Why now?" and also why this particular form of protest.
What is wrong with posing those questions?
Lets face it these sportmen are all highly paid "winners". For the most part they personally are not affected by these problems (not so true back in the days of Tommie Smith). In fact these are people at the level of society where they can literally get away with murder and ironically they can leverage the spectre of anti-black discrimination as part of the strategy to do it (cf OJ Simpson).
The fact remains that if (as in the UK) the police were not routinely armed then a large part of the problem could not happen. In those cases where firearms are not part of the problem then the police tendency to regard (by default) anyone that they encounter who is not "one of them" as a suspect is the root of the problem. (cf the Tomlinson case in London and one or two personal dealings that I have had with the police) It may be amplified by racial factors but the problem would remain even if those were not present.
On the post: Indiana Legislator Wants To Force NFL Team To Hand Out Refunds To Fans 'Offended' By Kneeling Players
Re: Re: FTFY
, number of adults who believe angels are real
There a 51 countries in the Organisation of Islamic Co-operation where the proportion of adults who believe angels are real surpasses the US. So you are at best 52nd in that category.
(NB if you are officially a Muslim then it is an absolute requirement of the faith to believe that the Koran was given to Mohamet by an Angel) and in all those countries more than half the population is officially Muslim.
On the post: Indiana Legislator Wants To Force NFL Team To Hand Out Refunds To Fans 'Offended' By Kneeling Players
Re: Re: Re: Re: FTFY
However the healthcare/political culture in the US meant that Obama's plan was always going to be flawed "the best he could get away with".
In the UK I dream about an NHS with US levels of health spending (relative to GDP of course). You spend about twice as much as we do and a big chunk of your population is still not properly covered.
On the post: Indiana Legislator Wants To Force NFL Team To Hand Out Refunds To Fans 'Offended' By Kneeling Players
Re: Re: FTFY
Our government isn’t perfect, but it's still the best country in the world and I think we need to be respectful of it
Given the lack of affordable healthcare for a good chunk of the population and the risk that, even if you think you are properly insured, a major health issue can easily bankrupt you.
Given that the US is by a country mile the leading practitioner of judicial murder (aka capital punishment) outside the islamic/communist world.
Given that even the left in America seems to ne spectacularly intolerant of opposing views.
Best country in the world?
pull the other one.
On the post: Indiana Legislator Wants To Force NFL Team To Hand Out Refunds To Fans 'Offended' By Kneeling Players
Puzzled by this protest
I for one am puzzled by this protest. Why now?
I remember Tommie Smith's protest at the 1968 olympics - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute It was a poweful statement - enhanced by the solidarity shown by the white Australian athlete who came second.
At the time black people in America were only just beginning to emerge from segregation.
Since then a lot has changed for the better - so why now?
I realise that there has been a lot of publicity and some high profile cases of police heavy handed trigger happiness. However it seems to me that the base problem here is the police's tendency to shoot first and ask questions afterwards. You do not have to be black to encounter this problem and the policeman does not have to be white to cause it. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/28/justine-damond-shooting-prosecutor-delays-decisi on-mohamed-noor
It has affected blacks disproportionately because of more general economic disadvantage which causes their communities to interact with law enforcement to a greater extent.
Now if you say that it is actually a protest about that economic dosadvantage itself then I would reply "So why protest now? Given that this disadvantage has been slowly decreasing for the last 50 years it would have made more sense to have continued Tommie Smith's protest for the whole of the last 50 years rather than to resart it now.
On the post: Facebook Allowing Israeli Security Forces To Shape The News Palestineans See
Re: Re: Re: The First Amendment, US law, and FB
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