You're opposing sympathizing with the rioters for the right reasons.
You're much better than the jackasses who think they're all looters and don't have any non-selfish reason to riot.
Personally, I sympathize with the rioters, because there have been peaceful protects, there have been attempts from the population that is now rioting to change their society, because people do irrational things when they are angry, and the response from the gov't has . . . not been positive.
I think the burden of responsibility now falls on the parties responsible for the current situation in Britain, which appears to be the 'upper class' and gov't.
Whether the solution was to give in to demands, or find some other way to deal with the rioters before they became rioters, well, that's different in every situation. As far as I can tell, it appears here that giving into the implicit demands would actually have been better for everyone.
"the poor living conditions of the type of people rioting is largely of there own making as they are sure that everything from educating their own kids to keeping where they live tidy is the responsibility someone else."
I find your depiction of poor people to very insulting and ignorant.
I have a longer spiel about this, an anecdote from my own life, and an amount of statistics, but somehow, I think it would probably be wasted.
As far as I can tell from my googling, the news coverage is moreorless the same.
Newspapers, and the 'general sentiment', (As far as I can tell), is that the protesters were just noisy hooligans, and where it didn't erupt into looting and arson, the newspapers appear to uphold "Our stellar police forces, who prevented a possible tragedy".
There appears to be, (I'm not sure, google translate was doing the heavy lifting for me), a controversy in one of the countries about how a newspaper printed pictures of the riot and other stuff . . . the day before the riot happened, (So that they had enough newspapers on hand to sell while the riot was happening).
(The printing factory/whatever they used was one of the first places hit during the actual riot, and the PR people for the newspaper were absolutely clueless to this occurrence when people started asking them questions how they could print the newspaper that fast).
So, regardless of whether it IS the same or not, I conclude that the general sentiment and newspapers/new sources from the effected region will generally always decry the riots as hooligans & looting.
So, regardless of your insistence of a difference that's not at all clear to me, I think I'll wait until after the riots, and after a few more facts come out, to see whether the majority or a small number of rioters were looters, what this would mean even if a majority were looters, and all that other good stuff.
BBM is just one method that's being used, to my understanding. Yesterday, I was already seeing pictures of pamphlets & advice sheets making the rounds, and text messages & twitter are also being used.
Given the level of organization, I wouldn't be surprised to see codes start to pop up. Y'know, if they haven't already.
One thing I'm disliking about this is the picture we automatically paint of any western riot: The rioters must be out to get rich or get sexual satisfaction out of burning things.
While I'm sure there are opportunists, I'd like to hear the reason why an entire crowd starting burning and trashing their own city for multiple days. Current stories are pointing towards a disproportionate response from 16 police ganging up on a girl who threw a rock at a protest, (First rock, thrown, apparently).
I assume that protesters in the middle east are probably also portrayed as being hooligans and looters in their countries. Are they? (Time for me to get googling, I think).
Wow. I hadn't realized that the riots were STILL happening.
I didn't hear about them stopping, I just assumed they wouldn't last the full night, and took the appearance of clean-up efforts as being evidence for that assumption, (subconsciously).
Make it spread too fast, and 'they' can never kill it.
Make it good enough, and it can kill 'them'.
Of course, that's not a very satisfactory answer. It implies anonymity and proxy-jumping and encryption, and all that good stuff. But a least we know that they can't stop us from creating, or even sharing; they can just make it a bit of a hassle.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: didn't you jum the gun a little?
They DID use pamphlets.
They weren't mentioned at all.
Actually, there was a mass printing of advice sheets that were handed out; I think those are much more interesting, because of examination of these might prove they were printed out days ahead of time.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: didn't you jum the gun a little?
I was wondering if someone was going to take that point.
I agree that what the police are saying stops short of actually outright blaming twitter. But then, if that wasn't their intent, why even mention 'social media' or 'twitter'?
Here, let me re-word it without mentioning them:
Before:
"really inflamatory, inaccurate" messages on Twitter were mainly to blame for the disorder. "Social media and other methods have been used to organise these levels of greed and criminality,
"
After:
"really inflamatory, inaccurate" messages were mainly to blame for the disorder. "The group used many different communication methods to organize these levels of greed and criminality,"
See? No blame. If you want to, you can even include, after 'communication methods': (Twitter and Blackberry messaging in particular were used extensively).
And although the police might not be outright blaming twitter, there are plenty of people who are.
Re: Re: Re: Just like the alarms at the exit doors of Wal-Mart
With any other store I've been to, they actually do use those features to catch AND charge people.
Strangely enough, it doesn't hurt business to kick out those folks who were costing you money every visit. Who knew?
It doesn't surprise me that wal-mart has such a high shoplifting rate . . .
Re: Just like the alarms at the exit doors of Wal-Mart
With the wal-mart here, it's because the employees are not allowed to accuse the person of stealing, indicate they might be stealing, or even confront someone they think might have set the alarm off by saying: "I think you might have set the alarm off".
I have no idea why they even have an alarm if they're not allowed to do anything about it ...
"Steve Kavanagh, the deputy assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan police, said that "really inflamatory, inaccurate" messages on Twitter were mainly to blame for the disorder."
Quoted from the article.
Other sources, meanwhile, seem to be blaming blackberry more, and noting its much larger use/role in the riots.
The only jump Mike appears to be making, is that of assuming Mr. Kavanagh felt that the larger role played by blackberry would be as much/more to blame for than twitter.
I think that's reasonable, given that if both had an effect, than surely the one that was used much, much more had much more of an effect?
Regardless, let's account for Mike's bias. He cares about technology. His intention in the article is:
"It's not the technology that is to blame. The technology is just a tool, and if you block off one path, you can be damn sure that they'll figure out another path instead. "
Blackberry or Twitter, pick your technology. As far as Mike and his bias are concerned, this can be a simple typo.
I have to admit, when I heard about the news last night, I was listening to a punk rock song by the name of "London's Burning".
Clearly, through the use of advanced magnetic technology used to spin the cylinders of my external hard drive, my connection to the internet, and the inevitable reverberation of my actions throughout the world, I am completely to blame.
On the post: Amazon Routes Around Apple With HTML 5 Kindle App
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Cornell reasoning...
On the post: DA Realizes That Gizmodo Didn't Break The Law In Writing About Found iPhone 4 Prototype
Re:
On the post: UK Prime Minister Wants To Ban Suspected Rioters From Facebook & Twitter
Re: Re:
You're opposing sympathizing with the rioters for the right reasons.
You're much better than the jackasses who think they're all looters and don't have any non-selfish reason to riot.
Personally, I sympathize with the rioters, because there have been peaceful protects, there have been attempts from the population that is now rioting to change their society, because people do irrational things when they are angry, and the response from the gov't has . . . not been positive.
I think the burden of responsibility now falls on the parties responsible for the current situation in Britain, which appears to be the 'upper class' and gov't.
Whether the solution was to give in to demands, or find some other way to deal with the rioters before they became rioters, well, that's different in every situation. As far as I can tell, it appears here that giving into the implicit demands would actually have been better for everyone.
On the post: DA Realizes That Gizmodo Didn't Break The Law In Writing About Found iPhone 4 Prototype
Re:
"OHMYGOD, where'd we leave that phone?! The bartender says he hasn't seen it! The police are out searching! OMG!"
Not-stolen goods:
"What? No, that's not our phone, stop trying to return it to us!"
On the post: How One Unverified Claim Of A $7,500 'Loss' From Cybercrime Translates To $1.5 Billion In Losses In The Press
Re: Re: Stats?
On the post: British MP Calls On RIM To Shut Down Messenger Services To Stop Riots; Because Pissing Off Rioters Calms Them Down?
Re:
I find your depiction of poor people to very insulting and ignorant.
I have a longer spiel about this, an anecdote from my own life, and an amount of statistics, but somehow, I think it would probably be wasted.
On the post: British MP Calls On RIM To Shut Down Messenger Services To Stop Riots; Because Pissing Off Rioters Calms Them Down?
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Newspapers, and the 'general sentiment', (As far as I can tell), is that the protesters were just noisy hooligans, and where it didn't erupt into looting and arson, the newspapers appear to uphold "Our stellar police forces, who prevented a possible tragedy".
There appears to be, (I'm not sure, google translate was doing the heavy lifting for me), a controversy in one of the countries about how a newspaper printed pictures of the riot and other stuff . . . the day before the riot happened, (So that they had enough newspapers on hand to sell while the riot was happening).
(The printing factory/whatever they used was one of the first places hit during the actual riot, and the PR people for the newspaper were absolutely clueless to this occurrence when people started asking them questions how they could print the newspaper that fast).
So, regardless of whether it IS the same or not, I conclude that the general sentiment and newspapers/new sources from the effected region will generally always decry the riots as hooligans & looting.
So, regardless of your insistence of a difference that's not at all clear to me, I think I'll wait until after the riots, and after a few more facts come out, to see whether the majority or a small number of rioters were looters, what this would mean even if a majority were looters, and all that other good stuff.
On the post: British MP Calls On RIM To Shut Down Messenger Services To Stop Riots; Because Pissing Off Rioters Calms Them Down?
Re: Means, Motives, Opportunities
It's very depressing.
On the post: British MP Calls On RIM To Shut Down Messenger Services To Stop Riots; Because Pissing Off Rioters Calms Them Down?
Re:
Given the level of organization, I wouldn't be surprised to see codes start to pop up. Y'know, if they haven't already.
One thing I'm disliking about this is the picture we automatically paint of any western riot: The rioters must be out to get rich or get sexual satisfaction out of burning things.
While I'm sure there are opportunists, I'd like to hear the reason why an entire crowd starting burning and trashing their own city for multiple days. Current stories are pointing towards a disproportionate response from 16 police ganging up on a girl who threw a rock at a protest, (First rock, thrown, apparently).
I assume that protesters in the middle east are probably also portrayed as being hooligans and looters in their countries. Are they? (Time for me to get googling, I think).
On the post: British MP Calls On RIM To Shut Down Messenger Services To Stop Riots; Because Pissing Off Rioters Calms Them Down?
I didn't hear about them stopping, I just assumed they wouldn't last the full night, and took the appearance of clean-up efforts as being evidence for that assumption, (subconsciously).
Wow.
On the post: Company Claims Patents On Generating A Map From A Database; Getting Real Estate Industry To Pay Up
Re: The end of capitalism?
Make it spread too fast, and 'they' can never kill it.
Make it good enough, and it can kill 'them'.
Of course, that's not a very satisfactory answer. It implies anonymity and proxy-jumping and encryption, and all that good stuff. But a least we know that they can't stop us from creating, or even sharing; they can just make it a bit of a hassle.
On the post: When Everything You've Ever Said Can & Will Be Used Against You By Anyone... Forever
Re: "Six Lines"
Oh, Cardinal Richelieu! If only you had been a fictional person, I could enjoy your antics.
On the post: London Riots? Blame The Blackberry!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: didn't you jum the gun a little?
The image was linked to me as an advice sheet handed out during the riots, and tottenham is a place in London according to google maps.
On the post: London Riots? Blame The Blackberry!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: didn't you jum the gun a little?
They weren't mentioned at all.
Actually, there was a mass printing of advice sheets that were handed out; I think those are much more interesting, because of examination of these might prove they were printed out days ahead of time.
http://yfrog.com/z/h07mxcyzj
On the post: London Riots? Blame The Blackberry!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: didn't you jum the gun a little?
I agree that what the police are saying stops short of actually outright blaming twitter. But then, if that wasn't their intent, why even mention 'social media' or 'twitter'?
Here, let me re-word it without mentioning them:
Before:
"really inflamatory, inaccurate" messages on Twitter were mainly to blame for the disorder. "Social media and other methods have been used to organise these levels of greed and criminality,
"
After:
"really inflamatory, inaccurate" messages were mainly to blame for the disorder. "The group used many different communication methods to organize these levels of greed and criminality,"
See? No blame. If you want to, you can even include, after 'communication methods': (Twitter and Blackberry messaging in particular were used extensively).
And although the police might not be outright blaming twitter, there are plenty of people who are.
On the post: German Police Admit That Full Body Naked Airport Scanners Suck; 35% False Alarm Rate
Re: Re: Re: Just like the alarms at the exit doors of Wal-Mart
Strangely enough, it doesn't hurt business to kick out those folks who were costing you money every visit. Who knew?
It doesn't surprise me that wal-mart has such a high shoplifting rate . . .
On the post: German Police Admit That Full Body Naked Airport Scanners Suck; 35% False Alarm Rate
Re: Just like the alarms at the exit doors of Wal-Mart
I have no idea why they even have an alarm if they're not allowed to do anything about it ...
On the post: London Riots? Blame The Blackberry!
Re: Re: Re: didn't you jum the gun a little?
Quoted from the article.
Other sources, meanwhile, seem to be blaming blackberry more, and noting its much larger use/role in the riots.
The only jump Mike appears to be making, is that of assuming Mr. Kavanagh felt that the larger role played by blackberry would be as much/more to blame for than twitter.
I think that's reasonable, given that if both had an effect, than surely the one that was used much, much more had much more of an effect?
Regardless, let's account for Mike's bias. He cares about technology. His intention in the article is:
"It's not the technology that is to blame. The technology is just a tool, and if you block off one path, you can be damn sure that they'll figure out another path instead. "
Blackberry or Twitter, pick your technology. As far as Mike and his bias are concerned, this can be a simple typo.
On the post: London Riots? Blame The Blackberry!
I feel a little guilty . . .
Clearly, through the use of advanced magnetic technology used to spin the cylinders of my external hard drive, my connection to the internet, and the inevitable reverberation of my actions throughout the world, I am completely to blame.
I'm sorry.
On the post: London Riots? Blame The Blackberry!
Re:
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