Not only did I undercut that with my first post, I've just undercut it with the second and a look at HADOPI as well as how many convictions have been occurring because of accusations, not convictions.
My point was the industry in Korea launched legitimate sources of music, then reaped rewards as they satisfied consumer demand.
Yours is enforcement has satisfied consumer demand. The article itself has said the same thing, which you completely ignored:
And an important factor in the revival of South Korea’s recorded-music business was the launch of legal music-subscription websites, including a cleaned-up Soribada
I looked at Soribada. It's the Korean Napster. Guess what? It went from Napster to Spotify. People use it from the name recognition. You're not being entirely convincing with your articles because they're not showing the entire picture.
There are no indications on how successful the education campaign was (hint: close to 0% might suffice), nor how successful the "pirated files" verdict was on P2P. Finally, the question is, where did Koreans move their files?
From HADOPI, they moved to cyberlockers while P2P died out.
From the sounds, that went largely unnoticed by the author.
You have shown nothing in regards to the Global IP Center. All they say is "go to fightonlinetheft.com" which is under the Chamber of Commerce. So unless you have something specific, they're a joke.
"The response was a rapid development of LEGITIMATE new sources."
You have the response backwards. The industry gave people legitimate sources, so people didn't need to find other illicit sources. They also found a larger audience through Youtube, Facebook, and other places. BoA, I have heard of from my own experience in Asia. The enforcement didn't matter one bit. I mean seriously, this is the same country where a video game is celebrated like a religion. *Something* should tell you that choices for broadband aren't as limited as they are here.
So there's at least three areas of contention that you've yet to really prove:
- Harsher enforcement have given legitimate sources more options. If this were so, then why do people mainly ignore the DMCA nowadays? The safe harbors are utilized but who in their right mind would try to sue over a takedown? We have three cases where this was tried. Jammie Thomas, Whitney Harper, and Joel Tenenbaum. We also have 2008 being the year of the DMCA sue em all strategy of the RIAA. Did that education program work? Why has the industry's own data shown that piracy increases their sales, and giving people more options for sources actually puts more money in their pockets? Of course, I'm talking about the Envisional data and the repressed report but I'm sure you're smart enough to figure it out.
Second, you've yet to really prove your point. I know you like to weasel out of it, and prove nothing but for once show differently. Where has the kicking off Koreans resulted in greater numbers? There are other factors that you've ignored so that you can arrive at the sophistic conclusion that "enforcement = more sales"
Third, and this is real important, those companies changed their business models quicker than the RIAA. In other words, they used those legitimate sources while the politicians locked up the sources. You might want to check up on S. Korea and research a little more fully next time. It sounds as if you're still advocating the enforcement angle for your paycheck. It still doesn't work. Even after it passes (and is challenged), there's nothing that you're saying that will turn back the time to the 80s where digital distribution didn't exist. Hell, there's nothing that says locking up and limiting options will force people to buy more. I don't know who is living in the fairy tale world, but it sure isn't me.
What level of profits? What says that when PIPA is actually passed (it might, but I'm betting there are so many people waiting to sue the government if it does...) that it will convince consumers to buy anything?
Also, what says that taking away American options, to allow foreign competition in other countries to grow, being taken away will actually force these so called great changes? I've heard the talking points for quite some time. It's the same thing over and over...
But ask a Maximalist how effective it will actually be and they go quiet and disappear. It's just sad because not one has yet to really say "ok, it's going to effectively curtail the internet." It's always about "It's going to pass and it's going to be awesome!"
Is a joke. Thank you for showing your line of employment, but I'm not interested in a corporation that spends money on various forms of law that try to protect its core businesses through deception and misdirection, thank you.
That said, let's get into that article since you invited me so nicely. :)
What's written for S. Korean music is only a very small excerpt. Literally, this is the ONLY paragraph in the entire article regarding S. Korea.
So I had to look up the main source of Korean music today. Through this, I see that " the presence of Facebook fan pages, availability on iTunes, Twitter profiles, and music videos on YouTube, the ability of K-pop to reach a previously inaccessible audience via the Internet is driving a paradigm shift in the exposure and popularity of the genre." Source
In fact, while the IFPI is saying fighting piracy is causing this result, Time magazine says otherwise. Observe:
"Korean artists are bypassing traditional outlets like radio and television, "aggressively steering their efforts to go international via the Internet," says Bernie Cho, president of DFSB Kollective, a Seoul-based agency specializing in the international marketing of Korean pop acts. "Social-media-savvy K-pop stars are now tweeting, YouTubing and Facebooking their way up music charts across and beyond Asia."
So on the one hand, you say the piracy is being fought and won. On the other, we have the artists finding success through alternate channels such as their own Youtube channels.
Just to drive this point home, let's talk about the other countries and their copyright enforcement...
France - Hadopi shut down, Sarkozy decides to pass his own dictatorial laws for his lobbying masters
UK - Hargreaves report suggests an overhaul of archaic copyright laws. Some reporters still don't get it, but at least they're acknowledging that piracy isn't causing the whole world calamities that you seem to be concluding.
So please, if you have some good articles that show how the correlation of IP enforcement causing more sales, I'd love to see them. That one wasn't even in the top 10 of "debunkonomics".
Last I checked, they knocked people off the internet and there's other broadband services that they could use. But you seem to have the inside scoop. You have a source for that?
Re: Re: Re: Masnick the 'entrepreneur' !!!!!!!!! 370 employed by Masnick.
What the hell are you going on about?
It boggles my mind that he's going that far off the deep end.
Collectively, these entrepreneurs have directly created over 50,000 new jobs in their companies, but more importantly have created hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of jobs via their innovations, platforms and services.
Darryl says it's 370. Not only can he not count, but he's basically doing another TAM routine. You can barely take him seriously.
" the AFL-CIO represents millions of actual workers."
This is the same organization that makes up numbers about job losses, blindly follows the RIAA, and does everything to preserve the union while saying "screw you" to the workers?
"First off, most people won't circumvent, because too many of them barely know how to get the internet connected, let alone playing with DNS settings. Commodity grade internet users aren't playing with the plumbing."
And how fast did Fox learn from this? How about HADOPI? The UK Digital Act? Sweden in general, where the Pirate Party is getting even more popular as the government was a proven lapdog of the US?n Brazil before its turn to the MPAA darkside? India and most judges' disbelief in copyright enforcement?
I mean, come on how many more examples in various countries are showing how copyright enforcement isn't doing anything to make people *buy* things on the internet?
Who said Mike was the "leader" in this? Just because he has his name on it doesn't automatically put him as the one who finagled this all together. Why not try "135 people came to the same conclusion that Protect IP is bad"?
"What needs to fail are business models predicated on profiting from the work of others. "
Meanwhile, Hollywood would fail based on the fact that Harry Potter, any movies with Tom Clancy on it, and even the newer vampire series such as Twilight, were first books that sparked interest into motion picture!
On the post: Top Entrepreneurs Warn Congress: PROTECT IP Will Stifle Innovation & Hurt Job Growth
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
My point was the industry in Korea launched legitimate sources of music, then reaped rewards as they satisfied consumer demand.
Yours is enforcement has satisfied consumer demand. The article itself has said the same thing, which you completely ignored:
And an important factor in the revival of South Korea’s recorded-music business was the launch of legal music-subscription websites, including a cleaned-up Soribada
I looked at Soribada. It's the Korean Napster. Guess what? It went from Napster to Spotify. People use it from the name recognition. You're not being entirely convincing with your articles because they're not showing the entire picture.
There are no indications on how successful the education campaign was (hint: close to 0% might suffice), nor how successful the "pirated files" verdict was on P2P. Finally, the question is, where did Koreans move their files?
From HADOPI, they moved to cyberlockers while P2P died out.
From the sounds, that went largely unnoticed by the author.
On the post: Top Entrepreneurs Warn Congress: PROTECT IP Will Stifle Innovation & Hurt Job Growth
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"The response was a rapid development of LEGITIMATE new sources."
You have the response backwards. The industry gave people legitimate sources, so people didn't need to find other illicit sources. They also found a larger audience through Youtube, Facebook, and other places. BoA, I have heard of from my own experience in Asia. The enforcement didn't matter one bit. I mean seriously, this is the same country where a video game is celebrated like a religion. *Something* should tell you that choices for broadband aren't as limited as they are here.
So there's at least three areas of contention that you've yet to really prove:
- Harsher enforcement have given legitimate sources more options. If this were so, then why do people mainly ignore the DMCA nowadays? The safe harbors are utilized but who in their right mind would try to sue over a takedown? We have three cases where this was tried. Jammie Thomas, Whitney Harper, and Joel Tenenbaum. We also have 2008 being the year of the DMCA sue em all strategy of the RIAA. Did that education program work? Why has the industry's own data shown that piracy increases their sales, and giving people more options for sources actually puts more money in their pockets? Of course, I'm talking about the Envisional data and the repressed report but I'm sure you're smart enough to figure it out.
Second, you've yet to really prove your point. I know you like to weasel out of it, and prove nothing but for once show differently. Where has the kicking off Koreans resulted in greater numbers? There are other factors that you've ignored so that you can arrive at the sophistic conclusion that "enforcement = more sales"
Third, and this is real important, those companies changed their business models quicker than the RIAA. In other words, they used those legitimate sources while the politicians locked up the sources. You might want to check up on S. Korea and research a little more fully next time. It sounds as if you're still advocating the enforcement angle for your paycheck. It still doesn't work. Even after it passes (and is challenged), there's nothing that you're saying that will turn back the time to the 80s where digital distribution didn't exist. Hell, there's nothing that says locking up and limiting options will force people to buy more. I don't know who is living in the fairy tale world, but it sure isn't me.
On the post: Imagine If Everyone Had To Start From Scratch And Reinvent The Wheel Every Time They Wanted To Build A New Car?
On the post: Imagine If Everyone Had To Start From Scratch And Reinvent The Wheel Every Time They Wanted To Build A New Car?
Re: Re: Re:
On the post: Top Entrepreneurs Warn Congress: PROTECT IP Will Stifle Innovation & Hurt Job Growth
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Also, what says that taking away American options, to allow foreign competition in other countries to grow, being taken away will actually force these so called great changes? I've heard the talking points for quite some time. It's the same thing over and over...
But ask a Maximalist how effective it will actually be and they go quiet and disappear. It's just sad because not one has yet to really say "ok, it's going to effectively curtail the internet." It's always about "It's going to pass and it's going to be awesome!"
On the post: Top Entrepreneurs Warn Congress: PROTECT IP Will Stifle Innovation & Hurt Job Growth
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
And yet you're on here to push a copyright maximalist agenda while barely staying coherent in your rant against the CDT, Google, and PK all the time.
Fancy that Mr Pot...
On the post: Top Entrepreneurs Warn Congress: PROTECT IP Will Stifle Innovation & Hurt Job Growth
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
But don't tell our AC that. Reading things that run counter to his argument are taboo.
On the post: Top Entrepreneurs Warn Congress: PROTECT IP Will Stifle Innovation & Hurt Job Growth
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Is a joke. Thank you for showing your line of employment, but I'm not interested in a corporation that spends money on various forms of law that try to protect its core businesses through deception and misdirection, thank you.
That said, let's get into that article since you invited me so nicely. :)
What's written for S. Korean music is only a very small excerpt. Literally, this is the ONLY paragraph in the entire article regarding S. Korea.
So I had to look up the main source of Korean music today. Through this, I see that " the presence of Facebook fan pages, availability on iTunes, Twitter profiles, and music videos on YouTube, the ability of K-pop to reach a previously inaccessible audience via the Internet is driving a paradigm shift in the exposure and popularity of the genre." Source
In fact, while the IFPI is saying fighting piracy is causing this result, Time magazine says otherwise. Observe:
"Korean artists are bypassing traditional outlets like radio and television, "aggressively steering their efforts to go international via the Internet," says Bernie Cho, president of DFSB Kollective, a Seoul-based agency specializing in the international marketing of Korean pop acts. "Social-media-savvy K-pop stars are now tweeting, YouTubing and Facebooking their way up music charts across and beyond Asia."
So on the one hand, you say the piracy is being fought and won. On the other, we have the artists finding success through alternate channels such as their own Youtube channels.
Just to drive this point home, let's talk about the other countries and their copyright enforcement...
France - Hadopi shut down, Sarkozy decides to pass his own dictatorial laws for his lobbying masters
UK - Hargreaves report suggests an overhaul of archaic copyright laws.
Some reporters still don't get it, but at least they're acknowledging that piracy isn't causing the whole world calamities that you seem to be concluding.
Sweden - Government is a US stool pigeon, making Swedish Pirate Party stronger
Brazil - The MPAA is not interested in democratizing culture while demanding more copyright enforcement from Brazil. Meanwhile, with Brazil, CD copying is still enforced albeit very sparingly compared to the harsh sentencing on drug crimes. Hmmm...
So please, if you have some good articles that show how the correlation of IP enforcement causing more sales, I'd love to see them. That one wasn't even in the top 10 of "debunkonomics".
On the post: Top Entrepreneurs Warn Congress: PROTECT IP Will Stifle Innovation & Hurt Job Growth
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
On the post: Top Entrepreneurs Warn Congress: PROTECT IP Will Stifle Innovation & Hurt Job Growth
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
On the post: Top Entrepreneurs Warn Congress: PROTECT IP Will Stifle Innovation & Hurt Job Growth
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
On the post: Wasn't The PATRIOT Act Supposed To Be About Stopping Terrorism?
Re:
On various social, economic, and policy levels
On the post: Top Entrepreneurs Warn Congress: PROTECT IP Will Stifle Innovation & Hurt Job Growth
Re: Re: Re: Masnick the 'entrepreneur' !!!!!!!!! 370 employed by Masnick.
It boggles my mind that he's going that far off the deep end.
Collectively, these entrepreneurs have directly created over 50,000 new jobs in their companies, but more importantly have created hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of jobs via their innovations, platforms and services.
Darryl says it's 370. Not only can he not count, but he's basically doing another TAM routine. You can barely take him seriously.
On the post: Top Entrepreneurs Warn Congress: PROTECT IP Will Stifle Innovation & Hurt Job Growth
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Sorry, how many more times are you going to move the goalposts instead of answer the question?
On the post: Top Entrepreneurs Warn Congress: PROTECT IP Will Stifle Innovation & Hurt Job Growth
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
This is the same organization that makes up numbers about job losses, blindly follows the RIAA, and does everything to preserve the union while saying "screw you" to the workers?
On the post: Top Entrepreneurs Warn Congress: PROTECT IP Will Stifle Innovation & Hurt Job Growth
Re: Re: Re:
And how fast did Fox learn from this? How about HADOPI? The UK Digital Act? Sweden in general, where the Pirate Party is getting even more popular as the government was a proven lapdog of the US?n Brazil before its turn to the MPAA darkside? India and most judges' disbelief in copyright enforcement?
I mean, come on how many more examples in various countries are showing how copyright enforcement isn't doing anything to make people *buy* things on the internet?
On the post: Top Entrepreneurs Warn Congress: PROTECT IP Will Stifle Innovation & Hurt Job Growth
Re: Masnick the 'entrepreneur' !!!!!!!!! 370 employed by Masnick.
On the post: Top Entrepreneurs Warn Congress: PROTECT IP Will Stifle Innovation & Hurt Job Growth
Re: Re: Re:
On the post: Top Entrepreneurs Warn Congress: PROTECT IP Will Stifle Innovation & Hurt Job Growth
Re: Re: Re:
On the post: Top Entrepreneurs Warn Congress: PROTECT IP Will Stifle Innovation & Hurt Job Growth
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Meanwhile, Hollywood would fail based on the fact that Harry Potter, any movies with Tom Clancy on it, and even the newer vampire series such as Twilight, were first books that sparked interest into motion picture!
How obstinate can you be?
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