There is also the question of whether this sentence will actually be carried out.
The odds are that it will not be carried out by the state - in fact (AFAIK) despite many such sentences being imposed in recent years the state has yet to execute anyone - BUT in practice this is immaterial because the mob will carry out the sentence themselves if they get the chance. Worse than that any lawyer who defends a blasphemy case is a target, any judge who shows leniency is a target and any politician who suggests repealing the law is a target.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Bibi_blasphemy_case
But Jesus called them to Himself and said to them, "You know that those who are considered rulers over the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them.
Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you shall be your servant.
The genesis of these laws should tell you all you need to know about their virtue, which is to say they have none.
I presume that by this you mean the military government of the 1980's. However that would be misleading as the military government was merely pandering to opinion within the populace. The real cause goes back to the "prophet" himself
He is on record as saying "Whoever curses a prophet kill him," and there is a list of people who were killed for this on his orders here https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Freedom_of_Speech#Qur.27an
The fact is that this is not a one off aberration of a military junta - in fact military juntas in islamic countries are often better than the alternatives. This is an endemic problem in the islamic world.
Right now the UK's religious right, the DUP, looks set to assist May in an informal quid pro quo arrangement to get her policies through but this means throwing Northern Ireland's Good Friday Agreement under the bus.
I'm not quite so pessimistic on this one - for two reasons.
The Scottish Conservatives seem to be a bit of an antidote to the DUP on most issues - and seeing as they have more seats than the DUP and were the only success in the Tory campaign they can block anything they don't like.
I don't think even the DUP wants to throw the Good Friday Agreement under the bus - although given the current impasse at Stormont it will be awkward for the government to be impartial if it is relying on the DUP to survive.
I do wish that Sinn Fein would take their seats though - I can't see any good reason not to - after all Nigel Farage took his seat in the European Parliament - which he wanted to be free of!
The problem is that somewhere close to half of the UK electorate are actually just tribal. They are only slightly
more likely to change their vote than their football team* and the reasons for the original affiliation are even less rational.
Even when people do change their vote the reason is rarely rational or logical. I remember someone voting for the Liberal candidate (Bill Pitt) in a byelection in the early 80's and claiming that it was because (she thought) he would bring back hanging!
*as you may know that is the most difficult thing to change - more difficult than changing spouse, your religion or even your gender.
it certainly seems like Corbyn represents a pretty big shift in Labour compared to Blair and Brown.
Compared to Blair - yes - compared to Brown - less so.
However his generally left wing policies don't necessarily preclude authoritarianism in the civil liberties space.
I haven't seen his personal opinions on these issues so I can't judge - however both parties have consistently turned more authoritarian when in government.
Remember, May was voted into her position by the Tory party. Getting rid of her won't stop her policies, because there will still be people behind her who want the same things.
Unfortunately the same authoritarian streak runs through Labour too. Not that long ago the Labour government looked bad - with its plans for ID cards and the digital economy bill.
In the main parties its down to individuals. David Davis and Tom Watson - usually good - Theresa May and Jack Straw usually bad. However even Theresa May has had her good moments - like when she told off the police.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePXmFcswjpg
The only parties that are consistently good are the Greens and the lib dems (in the latter case not without the occasional blip) - but neither of them is likely to have meaningful power in the foreseeable future.
Actually I've got an idea - send Theresa May over to the US and put her in charge of the police there!
And just in case anyone argues - but if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear because we are the good guys - just transpose this whole debate into the context of Pakistan:
Now note that "Pakistan's Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has described blasphemy as being an "unpardonable offence" and then take Amber Rudd's words and create the Pakistani version:
It is completely unacceptable. There should be no place for blasphemers (otherwise known as humanists [1] or Christians [2]) to hide.
We need to make sure that organisations like WhatsApp, and there are plenty of others like that, don’t provide a secret place for blasphemers to communicate with each other.
Everyone seems to believe that, whereas we know that the US government is in practice a rag bag of different agencies that are often in conflict with one another, the Russian government simply has to be a unified top down organisation where everything is in the control of the president. Of course it isn't true.
What we have now is a rerun of events that have happened many times before in the last 1400 years - and guess what? there was no internet for 99.9% of that time. For inof on some of the more recent examples she could look here http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-wahhabism-saudi-arabia_b_5717157.html (and note some of the influene of British policy on events)
Re: Re: Something occurred to me recently about ISDS...
You could ask Antigua about exactly how easy it is for a flea speck island to get a positive result in any trade dispute with a large country like the US.
So I guess the message is: if you want it to change, send letter to your congress(wo)man, and get your friends, associated to do the same to urge a change in law. And hope it has some effect?
Oddly enough that is exactly what Obama told one person who was lobbying for a good cause (can't remember what it was just now but is was a genuine good cause).
He said - I can't just do it - you have to get other people to tell me to do it!
On the post: Pakistan Sentences First Person To Death Over Social Media Posts
Re:
There is also the question of whether this sentence will actually be carried out.
The odds are that it will not be carried out by the state - in fact (AFAIK) despite many such sentences being imposed in recent years the state has yet to execute anyone - BUT in practice this is immaterial because the mob will carry out the sentence themselves if they get the chance. Worse than that any lawyer who defends a blasphemy case is a target, any judge who shows leniency is a target and any politician who suggests repealing the law is a target. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Bibi_blasphemy_case
On the post: Pakistan Sentences First Person To Death Over Social Media Posts
Re:
Interestingly Jesus agrees with you...
But Jesus called them to Himself and said to them, "You know that those who are considered rulers over the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them.
Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you shall be your servant.
Mark 10 42-43
On the post: Pakistan Sentences First Person To Death Over Social Media Posts
Genesis of the laws
The genesis of these laws should tell you all you need to know about their virtue, which is to say they have none.
I presume that by this you mean the military government of the 1980's. However that would be misleading as the military government was merely pandering to opinion within the populace. The real cause goes back to the "prophet" himself He is on record as saying "Whoever curses a prophet kill him," and there is a list of people who were killed for this on his orders here https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Freedom_of_Speech#Qur.27an
The fact is that this is not a one off aberration of a military junta - in fact military juntas in islamic countries are often better than the alternatives. This is an endemic problem in the islamic world.
On the post: Pakistan Sentences First Person To Death Over Social Media Posts
Re: death sentence
IN any case as I am from the UK - which doesn't execute people and so I will feel free to criticise Pakistan on this - and note that I already raised this issue last week - here
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170611/11545237565/theresa-may-tries-to-push-forward-with-pl ans-to-kill-encryption-while-her-party-plots-via-encrypted-whatsapp.shtml#c120
On the post: Supreme Court Reminds US Government That Hate Speech Is, In Fact, Free Speech
Re: Re:
On the post: Theresa May Tries To Push Forward With Plans To Kill Encryption, While Her Party Plots Via Encrypted Whatsapp
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Right now the UK's religious right, the DUP, looks set to assist May in an informal quid pro quo arrangement to get her policies through but this means throwing Northern Ireland's Good Friday Agreement under the bus.
I'm not quite so pessimistic on this one - for two reasons.
The Scottish Conservatives seem to be a bit of an antidote to the DUP on most issues - and seeing as they have more seats than the DUP and were the only success in the Tory campaign they can block anything they don't like.
I do wish that Sinn Fein would take their seats though - I can't see any good reason not to - after all Nigel Farage took his seat in the European Parliament - which he wanted to be free of!
On the post: Theresa May Tries To Push Forward With Plans To Kill Encryption, While Her Party Plots Via Encrypted Whatsapp
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The problem is that somewhere close to half of the UK electorate are actually just tribal. They are only slightly more likely to change their vote than their football team* and the reasons for the original affiliation are even less rational.
Even when people do change their vote the reason is rarely rational or logical. I remember someone voting for the Liberal candidate (Bill Pitt) in a byelection in the early 80's and claiming that it was because (she thought) he would bring back hanging!
*as you may know that is the most difficult thing to change - more difficult than changing spouse, your religion or even your gender.
On the post: Theresa May Tries To Push Forward With Plans To Kill Encryption, While Her Party Plots Via Encrypted Whatsapp
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
it certainly seems like Corbyn represents a pretty big shift in Labour compared to Blair and Brown. Compared to Blair - yes - compared to Brown - less so.
However his generally left wing policies don't necessarily preclude authoritarianism in the civil liberties space.
I haven't seen his personal opinions on these issues so I can't judge - however both parties have consistently turned more authoritarian when in government.
On the post: Court: State Not Justified In Seizing Grandmother's House After Her Son Sold $140 Of Marijuana
Re: Re:
Even Theresa May is closer to it than you are:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqTK3oS03A4
On the post: Court: State Not Justified In Seizing Grandmother's House After Her Son Sold $140 Of Marijuana
Re:
I think everyone can see where the moral high ground lies.
On the post: Theresa May Tries To Push Forward With Plans To Kill Encryption, While Her Party Plots Via Encrypted Whatsapp
Re: Re: Re:
Remember, May was voted into her position by the Tory party. Getting rid of her won't stop her policies, because there will still be people behind her who want the same things.
Unfortunately the same authoritarian streak runs through Labour too. Not that long ago the Labour government looked bad - with its plans for ID cards and the digital economy bill. In the main parties its down to individuals. David Davis and Tom Watson - usually good - Theresa May and Jack Straw usually bad. However even Theresa May has had her good moments - like when she told off the police. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePXmFcswjpg
The only parties that are consistently good are the Greens and the lib dems (in the latter case not without the occasional blip) - but neither of them is likely to have meaningful power in the foreseeable future.
Actually I've got an idea - send Theresa May over to the US and put her in charge of the police there!
On the post: Theresa May Tries To Push Forward With Plans To Kill Encryption, While Her Party Plots Via Encrypted Whatsapp
Re: Panopticon
And just in case anyone argues - but if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear because we are the good guys - just transpose this whole debate into the context of Pakistan:
See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40246754
Now note that "Pakistan's Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has described blasphemy as being an "unpardonable offence" and then take Amber Rudd's words and create the Pakistani version:
It is completely unacceptable. There should be no place for blasphemers (otherwise known as humanists [1] or Christians [2]) to hide.
We need to make sure that organisations like WhatsApp, and there are plenty of others like that, don’t provide a secret place for blasphemers to communicate with each other.
[1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-39603126/pakistan-blasphemy-the-student-lynched-for-being-a- humanist
[2] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26901433
But then, given Amber Rudd's attitude to Saudi Arabia maybe she is on side with the Pakistani version too.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/amber-rudd-saudi-arabia-speech-shut-down-claims- nicholas-wilson-a7774126.html
On the post: YouTube Takes Down Ariana Grande's Manchester Benefit Concert On Copyright Grounds
Re: Re: "sacred" copyright
Screw everything that does not add to their bottom line
and quite a few things that do!
On the post: Intercept Posts NSA Docs On Russian Election Hacking, DOJ Announces Arrest Of Leaker Hours Later
Look at the US
Of course it isn't true.
And btw as far as election interference goes - pot meet kettle.
http://www.vocativ.com/388500/election-interference-us-45-countries/
On the post: Theresa May Blames The Internet For London Bridge Attack; Repeats Demands To Censor It
LearnSome History
What we have now is a rerun of events that have happened many times before in the last 1400 years - and guess what? there was no internet for 99.9% of that time.
For inof on some of the more recent examples she could look here
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-wahhabism-saudi-arabia_b_5717157.html
(and note some of the influene of British policy on events)
For a more complete view of the history one could look here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y&t=454s
By the way Theresa - ISIS is the original Islam.
The moderates (nice people though they are ) are the ones who changed it.
On the post: Brazilian Journalist Detained By UK Border Police For Reading A Book About ISIS
Re: Re: Any actual knowledge
On the post: Brazilian Journalist Detained By UK Border Police For Reading A Book About ISIS
Any actual knowledge
On the post: Financial Times Editorial: Time To 'Ditch' Corporate Sovereignty In Trade Deals
Re: Re: Something occurred to me recently about ISDS...
On the post: House Committee Head Tells Federal Agencies To Stop Handing Out Communications With Congress To FOIA Requesters
Re: think you can make government honest ?
On the post: House Committee Head Tells Federal Agencies To Stop Handing Out Communications With Congress To FOIA Requesters
Re:
So I guess the message is: if you want it to change, send letter to your congress(wo)man, and get your friends, associated to do the same to urge a change in law. And hope it has some effect?
Oddly enough that is exactly what Obama told one person who was lobbying for a good cause (can't remember what it was just now but is was a genuine good cause).
He said - I can't just do it - you have to get other people to tell me to do it!
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