And if someone decides to take their own life because someone is currently tormenting them, the tormentor is not the proximate cause? You're not being honest.
Swartz very obviously did what he did with JSTOR thinking it would allow him to return to life as normal, but I doubt very seriously he thought what he did was wrong for all the reasons I mentioned above and which you conveniently refused to comment on, most likely because you do not have a viable response.
And I would add that not all money is purely symbolic. Metal coins represent a commodity that has been standardized specifically to be used as an intermediate trade good.
This is why I like the idea of clearing house based trade. The real trade is in actual goods and services. The convenience of fiat or "symbolic" money could then evolve though through the continually updated relative trade values of actual goods. One could get credit with the clearing house, and store it to be used later on other things. The clearing house would make money on fees and perhaps on exceptionally beneficial trades they can make by being in constant control of products people have traded for their credit, and thus being able to take advantage of the ups and downs of supply and demand to maximize their own profits on the eventual actual trade of goods.
That's an interesting point YOU make, but no, that was not really my point. My point is that the way money works is tied to the way business works.
Certain people hold that patent could be reduced or eliminated as things stand now. I tend to doubt that. I nevertheless see at least the possibility of a necessity for some sort of centralizing economic force, whether that be a central bank, a centralized fiat monetary system controlled by the government, or (my personal favorite) a well regulated system of local, regional, and national "clearing houses" for lack of a better term where people's goods and services would be traded openly, and where some reasonable facsimile of a generic "credit" might be formulated.
But back to the topic of patents and the banking system, my objection to the idea that we can significantly reform it is that it is doing precisely what it is designed to do - it is creating a commodity out of an idea so that a large, centrally controlled organization (a company) can monetize it through the usual channels (a bank loan to help seize market share.)
I don't know if that is at all clearer, but that's the point I am trying to make.
I am incredibly tired of people such as yourself trying to put some of this on Swartz.
He hid his face? Ooooh, horrors. Not because he knew he was doing anything wrong, or because he knew others thought he was doing anything wrong, but because he knew the powers he was dealing with might well try to demonize him despite the fact that he was doing nothing wrong.
Even his violation of the Terms of Service for JSTOR was not morally wrong. Rather, it is morally repugnant for knowledge to be locked behind a paywall - particularly knowledge that is used in the formation of public policy.
Yes, he did NOTHING WRONG, and was harassed by your government until he hung himself to death.
Hung himself to death? Are you paying good, close attention?
There is no excuse for your government in this case, nor is it at all appropriate in the wake of a man's senseless death to try to hang unwarranted blame on him for something he did by way of trying to make the world a better place.
I believe there is such a thing as negligence. Did the prosecution KILL Swartz. No. But I absolutely believe their negligent, indeed immoral and reckless prosecution, directly caused it, and that at the VERY least she should be fired. There ought to be someone looking into prosecuting HER for her behavior though.
There is no getting around that this whole situation was idiotic and led to someone being dead. That's not something to be dismissed lightly in my view.
Not that I am accusing you. I am just spelling out why I disagree with your defense of the prosecution.
I think though with a resume like his, the felony would probably not be a big deal. Or... it might be actually an issue if he wanted to be CEO of a publicly traded company?
I don't know.
From his station as a well known political activist, it could have been a positive boon to go to jail. There was obviously something about it that did not meet with his satisfaction though. I know when I was pretty broke in college and got a ticket for driving without a seat belt, the judge suggested it was perfectly acceptable to just go to jail, which I decided no to do because, holy crap, jail for a ticket???
He was facing more than an overnight stay, and for something he really did not do at that.
But I really have no use for the excuse making. Sure, suicide is a complex thing. But does anyone REALLY think he would have HUNG himself without the weight of this incredible immoral prosecution hanging over him?
I think it is entirely appropriate to blame the government.
As for Tom Dolan, his only saving grace is that it is his wife being talked about, but ultimately if he were worth his weight in salt he'd have been pressuring her daily not to crucify an innocent man on the Cross of IP.
Widgets are patent issues, not copyright. Also, there are people who argue that the patent system as it stands allows for the improvement of the widget without causing the ensuing innovation to also be wrapped up in the original technology. In other words, there is no patent analogy to "derivative works". Or that's my understanding.
I could be educated more on that topic.
But as to your main point, I do believe that IP laws in general are there to promote centralization, which is why I think they relate to the central banking issue more directly than I hear most folks discussing. They are peas in a pod.
I first heard of Firefly playing a MUD online. Some girl was doing a charming job of role playing a character based on River Tam, and she told me about it. I thought it sounded stupid.
The difficulty in trying to unravel patents in the difficulty in herding cats.
Without some force to get people driving in the same direction, it really has proven difficult in times past to get people to cooperate. The driving force that OUGHT to get people working together is common interest, but in many instances common interest can be hard to find. And, even when you find it, common ground as to how to go about doing a thing then becomes a tacky problem.
Central banking, early in this nation's history, was put forward by the likes of Alexander Hamilton as a stabilizing force for the nation. Central banks have been shut down and reintroduced some 3 or 4 times in our nations history, and while I and others dislike them, it is difficult to argue that without them, a great deal of chaos ensues.
Blaming the chaos on the usual suspects (huge trusts, conglomerated interests of wealth seakers, etc) really does nothing to solve the problem. Chaos is chaos.
Patents, for all their faults, lend themselves to the business models that work well under a central banking system.
It's true, in my opinion, that patents tend to postdate innovation, but that is beside the point. You can't get the innovations into the market without cash, and you can't get cash in large quantities under a central banking scheme without institutional loans. That's WHY the patents postdate the innovations. Because they need them in order to convince banks to lend. Banks don't like to gamble with their loans. They like as close to a sure thing as one can get, and patents help corporations reassure banks that they have a sure thing.
Until copyleft can come up with competitive models that still allow them to use central banking, or until they ally themselves with folks such as myself who are against central banking and come up with ways to function without a central bank, patents in particular are going to be a knotty problem to unravel in the IP world.
This is the real reason why folks such as Mr. Kappos rely on that little factoid to promote US IP. People in the know realize that investment is key, and that investment without banks is hopeless.
ALL money is debt. The debt from the bank is fresh. It increases the total amount, and when lent in bulk, again, gives the recipient an advantage over competitors, especially in terms of competing for market share.
So I'm with you, but you are not seeing how this debt is actually beneficial to those who desire to see a continuation of central control.
Or well, maybe you do get it. You weren't particularly communicative about your own personal take on the IP angle.
On the post: Carmen Ortiz's Husband Criticizes Swartz Family For Suggesting Prosecution Of Their Son Contributed To His Suicide
Re: Re: Re: NOTHING wrong?
Swartz very obviously did what he did with JSTOR thinking it would allow him to return to life as normal, but I doubt very seriously he thought what he did was wrong for all the reasons I mentioned above and which you conveniently refused to comment on, most likely because you do not have a viable response.
Blaming the victim is not appropriate.
On the post: Is The US IP System Really 'The Envy Of The World'?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Red Meat for the True Believers
This is why I like the idea of clearing house based trade. The real trade is in actual goods and services. The convenience of fiat or "symbolic" money could then evolve though through the continually updated relative trade values of actual goods. One could get credit with the clearing house, and store it to be used later on other things. The clearing house would make money on fees and perhaps on exceptionally beneficial trades they can make by being in constant control of products people have traded for their credit, and thus being able to take advantage of the ups and downs of supply and demand to maximize their own profits on the eventual actual trade of goods.
If you follow...
On the post: Is The US IP System Really 'The Envy Of The World'?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Red Meat for the True Believers
Ok ok, touche, but you see where I am coming from. I just wish some of you would comment on the tie to IP I am seeing here.
Tally sticks anyone?
Actually, I guess that is debt as money again, isn't it? N/M
On the post: Is The US IP System Really 'The Envy Of The World'?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Red Meat for the True Believers
Certain people hold that patent could be reduced or eliminated as things stand now. I tend to doubt that. I nevertheless see at least the possibility of a necessity for some sort of centralizing economic force, whether that be a central bank, a centralized fiat monetary system controlled by the government, or (my personal favorite) a well regulated system of local, regional, and national "clearing houses" for lack of a better term where people's goods and services would be traded openly, and where some reasonable facsimile of a generic "credit" might be formulated.
But back to the topic of patents and the banking system, my objection to the idea that we can significantly reform it is that it is doing precisely what it is designed to do - it is creating a commodity out of an idea so that a large, centrally controlled organization (a company) can monetize it through the usual channels (a bank loan to help seize market share.)
I don't know if that is at all clearer, but that's the point I am trying to make.
On the post: Is The US IP System Really 'The Envy Of The World'?
Re: Google
Sad.
On the post: Carmen Ortiz's Husband Criticizes Swartz Family For Suggesting Prosecution Of Their Son Contributed To His Suicide
Re: NOTHING wrong?
He hid his face? Ooooh, horrors. Not because he knew he was doing anything wrong, or because he knew others thought he was doing anything wrong, but because he knew the powers he was dealing with might well try to demonize him despite the fact that he was doing nothing wrong.
Even his violation of the Terms of Service for JSTOR was not morally wrong. Rather, it is morally repugnant for knowledge to be locked behind a paywall - particularly knowledge that is used in the formation of public policy.
Yes, he did NOTHING WRONG, and was harassed by your government until he hung himself to death.
Hung himself to death? Are you paying good, close attention?
There is no excuse for your government in this case, nor is it at all appropriate in the wake of a man's senseless death to try to hang unwarranted blame on him for something he did by way of trying to make the world a better place.
On the post: Carmen Ortiz's Husband Criticizes Swartz Family For Suggesting Prosecution Of Their Son Contributed To His Suicide
Re: It's called a trigger
There is no getting around that this whole situation was idiotic and led to someone being dead. That's not something to be dismissed lightly in my view.
Not that I am accusing you. I am just spelling out why I disagree with your defense of the prosecution.
On the post: Carmen Ortiz's Husband Criticizes Swartz Family For Suggesting Prosecution Of Their Son Contributed To His Suicide
I read that too
I don't know.
From his station as a well known political activist, it could have been a positive boon to go to jail. There was obviously something about it that did not meet with his satisfaction though. I know when I was pretty broke in college and got a ticket for driving without a seat belt, the judge suggested it was perfectly acceptable to just go to jail, which I decided no to do because, holy crap, jail for a ticket???
He was facing more than an overnight stay, and for something he really did not do at that.
On the post: Carmen Ortiz's Husband Criticizes Swartz Family For Suggesting Prosecution Of Their Son Contributed To His Suicide
Re: Double standards
On the post: Carmen Ortiz's Husband Criticizes Swartz Family For Suggesting Prosecution Of Their Son Contributed To His Suicide
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dolan's tweets
Secondly... who volunteers to go to jail for their own health?
On the post: Carmen Ortiz's Husband Criticizes Swartz Family For Suggesting Prosecution Of Their Son Contributed To His Suicide
Re: Patterns of bullying
On the post: Carmen Ortiz's Husband Criticizes Swartz Family For Suggesting Prosecution Of Their Son Contributed To His Suicide
Re: Dolan's tweets
On the post: Carmen Ortiz's Husband Criticizes Swartz Family For Suggesting Prosecution Of Their Son Contributed To His Suicide
Call me an Ogre
I think it is entirely appropriate to blame the government.
As for Tom Dolan, his only saving grace is that it is his wife being talked about, but ultimately if he were worth his weight in salt he'd have been pressuring her daily not to crucify an innocent man on the Cross of IP.
Oooo... William Jennings Bryan, anyone?
On the post: Former Chief Judge Of Patent Court: We Need To Strengthen, Not Weaken, The Patent System Because [Reasons]
Couple things.
I could be educated more on that topic.
But as to your main point, I do believe that IP laws in general are there to promote centralization, which is why I think they relate to the central banking issue more directly than I hear most folks discussing. They are peas in a pod.
On the post: Dear HBO, Disney, Netflix Et Al: Fragmenting Online TV Lets Piracy Keep Its Biggest Advantage
Firefly
I first heard of Firefly playing a MUD online. Some girl was doing a charming job of role playing a character based on River Tam, and she told me about it. I thought it sounded stupid.
I just watched it last year... LOVED it. LOVED.
Lol
So yeah... they have their ways....
On the post: Former Chief Judge Of Patent Court: We Need To Strengthen, Not Weaken, The Patent System Because [Reasons]
Big Business and Patents
Without some force to get people driving in the same direction, it really has proven difficult in times past to get people to cooperate. The driving force that OUGHT to get people working together is common interest, but in many instances common interest can be hard to find. And, even when you find it, common ground as to how to go about doing a thing then becomes a tacky problem.
Central banking, early in this nation's history, was put forward by the likes of Alexander Hamilton as a stabilizing force for the nation. Central banks have been shut down and reintroduced some 3 or 4 times in our nations history, and while I and others dislike them, it is difficult to argue that without them, a great deal of chaos ensues.
Blaming the chaos on the usual suspects (huge trusts, conglomerated interests of wealth seakers, etc) really does nothing to solve the problem. Chaos is chaos.
Patents, for all their faults, lend themselves to the business models that work well under a central banking system.
It's true, in my opinion, that patents tend to postdate innovation, but that is beside the point. You can't get the innovations into the market without cash, and you can't get cash in large quantities under a central banking scheme without institutional loans. That's WHY the patents postdate the innovations. Because they need them in order to convince banks to lend. Banks don't like to gamble with their loans. They like as close to a sure thing as one can get, and patents help corporations reassure banks that they have a sure thing.
Until copyleft can come up with competitive models that still allow them to use central banking, or until they ally themselves with folks such as myself who are against central banking and come up with ways to function without a central bank, patents in particular are going to be a knotty problem to unravel in the IP world.
That's my take on it anyhow.
On the post: Is The US IP System Really 'The Envy Of The World'?
Re: Re: Red Meat for the True Believers
This is the real reason why folks such as Mr. Kappos rely on that little factoid to promote US IP. People in the know realize that investment is key, and that investment without banks is hopeless.
On the post: Is The US IP System Really 'The Envy Of The World'?
Re: Re: Red Meat for the True Believers
On the post: Is The US IP System Really 'The Envy Of The World'?
Re: Re: Red Meat for the True Believers
So I'm with you, but you are not seeing how this debt is actually beneficial to those who desire to see a continuation of central control.
Or well, maybe you do get it. You weren't particularly communicative about your own personal take on the IP angle.
On the post: Dear HBO, Disney, Netflix Et Al: Fragmenting Online TV Lets Piracy Keep Its Biggest Advantage
Ugh
I paid for this and you won't even let me skip the ads????
GAH!!!!
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