That's news to me, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you to cite the relevant laws and supporting caselaw. I mean they've been doing this for years so there must have been some law suits by now right?
"Fake news is really just referring to the journalists who try to burden their readers with their own personal views/feelings/agendas."
How the hell is it that in the space of about a year a huge number of people like you lost their shit and changed the meaning of the word 'fake'? Go read a damn dictionary.
"Thiel was clear, he hit the bully where it hurts: pocket."
So you're quite ok with very rich people being able to use the legal system as a weapon while the rest of us can't afford to do that? You're good with any media outlet being at financial risk this way, even the ones you agree with? The harm this causes to society is far greater than whatever harm Theil might have (but probably didn't) suffer because of Gawker.
"It's fun to watch liberal snowflakes getting all upset because the socialist decisions of the FCC are likely to get overturned."
By 'socialist decisions' you mean consumer protection rules that attempt to prevent big corporations from ripping off the public, stop anti-competitive and anti-consumer behavior and protect your privacy, and which have broad non-partisan support from the public? What the hell kind of sociopath are you that you would celebrate overturning that? Or are you just another paid shill or someone who'd benefit directly from this at the public's expense?
'I have members of family that served, but I do not respect someone 'just because' they served.'
Respect is a scale, not a yes or no thing. I can respect someone a little or a lot. Serving in the military earns you some respect. Acting like a fuckwad loses you some respect. Bad actions can absolutely cancel out any respect that might be deserved for serving, e.g. McCain.
"...part of civil disobedience and protest is standing up and taking responsibility for your actions."
Can you show us where exactly in the rule book is says that? And besides, he has taken responsibility for it, he said he did it.
"Protesting an unjust law is all well and good, but doing it and then running away doesn't make you a hero."
Sacrificing your life in the country of your birth, not being able to see family and friends, and not being able to work in your field of expertise, all for the benefit of the everyone else, seems pretty heroic to me. Why do you have to be throw in jail be be called a hero?
"Yes, Snowden likely would have gotten the book thrown at him, and his life would be substantially worse if he'd stuck around, but that willingness to suffer is part of what makes us respect those who stand up against unjust laws."
That's your opinion only, many others don't require such an extreme level of personal sacrifice to award someone respect.
"...when he chose to flee the country rather than stand up and make his case here, he separated himself from Manning, and ceded at least part of the moral high ground civil disobedience stands on."
Well he was clearly smarter than Manning, because he knew exactly what would happen if he stuck around. Choosing to impale yourself on a manifestly unjust legal system doesn't give you any more moral high ground.
I don't think it's nebulous or ambiguous at all. The term fake news was originally applied quite literally; it was an item of news that was completely made up with little to no truthful substance. It's been highjacked by dishonest assholes who try to discredit factual stories or opinion pieces they don't like the content of. The definition only changes if you decide those people abusing it for their own dishonest purposes can get away with it. Saying the definition is nebulous or ambiguous is letting them win at the expense of the truth.
"The problem is that "fake news" doesn't really have a clear definition. It's a meaningless term."
Bullshit.
fake adjective not genuine; imitation or counterfeit. "she got on the plane with a fake passport" synonyms: forgery, counterfeit, copy, sham, fraud, hoax, imitation, mock-up, dummy, reproduction, lookalike, likeness antonyms: genuine
news noun newly received or noteworthy information, especially about recent events. "I've got some good news for you" a broadcast or published report of news. plural noun: the news 'He was back in the news again" synonyms: report, announcement, story, account
The words are clearly defined so putting them together makes something also pretty clearly defined. What fake news is not is facts and opinions that someone doesn't agree with or doesn't want to believe, which is the definition that many, Trump supporters in particular, seem to be suddenly using. Intelligent people know exactly what fake news actually is, even if they're deliberately abusing the term for their supposed benefit. Idiots may genuinely not understand the difference.
"The lawsuit is baseless in many ways because the guy did not invent email, he invented AN email. It may have been new to him, it may have been new to his country, but it wasn't new in the world. There in lies the problem: he's not wrong when he says he invented email, if you speak generally and without qualifying that point."
Let me change a word and show you how silly that argument is:
"The lawsuit is baseless in many ways because the guy did not invent the car, he invented a car. It may have been new to him, it may have been new to his country, but it wasn't new in the world. There in lies the problem: he's not wrong when he says he invented a car, if you speak generally and without qualifying that point."
Sounds ridiculous because it is. Invention by definition is creating something that didn't exist before, not a your own version version of an extant system. Naming your program Email is not 'inventing email', which is what he very specifically claims to have done.
"However, making fun of him, calling him names, and making comments about his character and such may cross the line."
Firstly, it actually it crosses no legal line at all. That's all perfectly legal and is absolutely not libel unless it's knowingly and provably false. Secondly, what you refer to as making fun of him, calling him names, and making comments about his character I would describe as quite accurate descriptions of this guy. If someone makes such egregious and easily disproved claims that almost nobody believes (where are all his supporters?), and also public shits on the people that actually invented email, he fully deserves to be ridiculed and called a liar and a fraud, because that's what he is.
"Some of the recent posts by people like Karl are starting to push on nasty insults and insinuations of things that are not easily proven."
Post some examples. I suspect you may be mocked for your choices though...
"Mike, you have literally made a living for years by blogging personal attacks and insults against people with whom you disagree."
So what? If people do things that make them worthy of being insulted (and TD has documented thousands of examples) then they deserve to be insulted. Of course, thin-skinned authoritarians like you perceive any accurate description you don't agree with as an insult, because how dare anyone publicly call you out!
"You could have chosen to present your arguments and let the reader decide."
Er, how is that not what happens? I read, I decide.
"But you chose, over and over, to call people names. THAT is what this case is about."
Not sure if you realise how ignorant that sounds, but this is a defamation case, which by definition is not about name-calling but about stating falsehoods. Feel free to refute any points Mike's actually made in this story that would legally quality as defamation. I note you've done nothing close to that yet. Just lots of blah, blah.
"I'm delighted that one of them finally decided to fight back."
You're delighted that the legal system is being abused in an attempt to stifle someone's constitutionally guaranteed right of free speech? Wow, that's a pretty sick attitude. You know there's no legal merit here, so you know this is a pure SLAPP case.
On the post: The Massive Overreaction To Uber's Response To JFK Protests
Re:
That's news to me, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you to cite the relevant laws and supporting caselaw. I mean they've been doing this for years so there must have been some law suits by now right?
On the post: New Trump Executive Order Says Federal Agencies Should Exclude Foreigners From Privacy Protections
Re: Re:
"Fake news is really just referring to the journalists who try to burden their readers with their own personal views/feelings/agendas."
How the hell is it that in the space of about a year a huge number of people like you lost their shit and changed the meaning of the word 'fake'? Go read a damn dictionary.
On the post: Lock Them Up! Trump Staff Still Using Private Republican National Committee Email Accounts
Re:
"Call me in a month when everyone's had time to settle in."
Yeah, it's not like they had months to take care if all this sort of shit beforehand! Oh wait...
On the post: Do You Want A Police State? Because This Is How You Get A Police State
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
On the post: Legal Threats By Charles Harder & Shiva Ayyadurai Targeting More Speech
Re: Re: Theil wasn't closeted
"Thiel was clear, he hit the bully where it hurts: pocket."
So you're quite ok with very rich people being able to use the legal system as a weapon while the rest of us can't afford to do that? You're good with any media outlet being at financial risk this way, even the ones you agree with? The harm this causes to society is far greater than whatever harm Theil might have (but probably didn't) suffer because of Gawker.
On the post: Policing For Dummies: DOJ/Baltimore PD Edition
Re: Re:
"Wow, Trump has been President for all of 28 hours and this is his fault."
Not even close to what was said.
"You guys are a special kind of stoopid."
Says the guy who failed to understand the comment or maybe just doesn't want to.
On the post: CBS & Paramount Finally Settle With Fan Film Axanar
Re:
On the post: Report: President Trump Picks Former Verizon Lawyer Ajit Pai To Head FCC
Re:
"It's fun to watch liberal snowflakes getting all upset because the socialist decisions of the FCC are likely to get overturned."
By 'socialist decisions' you mean consumer protection rules that attempt to prevent big corporations from ripping off the public, stop anti-competitive and anti-consumer behavior and protect your privacy, and which have broad non-partisan support from the public? What the hell kind of sociopath are you that you would celebrate overturning that? Or are you just another paid shill or someone who'd benefit directly from this at the public's expense?
On the post: Almost Every Word Of John McCain's Response To Chelsea Manning's Sentence Commutation Is Flat Out Wrong
Re: Re:
'I have members of family that served, but I do not respect someone 'just because' they served.'
Respect is a scale, not a yes or no thing. I can respect someone a little or a lot. Serving in the military earns you some respect. Acting like a fuckwad loses you some respect. Bad actions can absolutely cancel out any respect that might be deserved for serving, e.g. McCain.
On the post: Surprise: President Obama Commutes Chelsea Manning's Sentence
Re:
"...part of civil disobedience and protest is standing up and taking responsibility for your actions."
Can you show us where exactly in the rule book is says that? And besides, he has taken responsibility for it, he said he did it.
"Protesting an unjust law is all well and good, but doing it and then running away doesn't make you a hero."
Sacrificing your life in the country of your birth, not being able to see family and friends, and not being able to work in your field of expertise, all for the benefit of the everyone else, seems pretty heroic to me. Why do you have to be throw in jail be be called a hero?
"Yes, Snowden likely would have gotten the book thrown at him, and his life would be substantially worse if he'd stuck around, but that willingness to suffer is part of what makes us respect those who stand up against unjust laws."
That's your opinion only, many others don't require such an extreme level of personal sacrifice to award someone respect.
"...when he chose to flee the country rather than stand up and make his case here, he separated himself from Manning, and ceded at least part of the moral high ground civil disobedience stands on."
Well he was clearly smarter than Manning, because he knew exactly what would happen if he stuck around. Choosing to impale yourself on a manifestly unjust legal system doesn't give you any more moral high ground.
On the post: Trump Not Even Waiting To Get Into Office Before Threatening The First Amendment, Press Freedoms
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Talk about fake news
Actually for us to have a discussion what I think *does* matter, just as what you think matters. Otherwise what the hell are we doing?
On the post: Trump Not Even Waiting To Get Into Office Before Threatening The First Amendment, Press Freedoms
Re: Re: Re: Re: Talk about fake news
On the post: Trump Not Even Waiting To Get Into Office Before Threatening The First Amendment, Press Freedoms
Re: Re: Re: Re: Talk about fake news
Do you need to be one to understand dictionary definitions?
*"Wow, they must be clairvoyant too."*
I thought it was pretty clear I was referring to knowing what *the definition of the term* fake news is, not whether a news item is fake.
On the post: Trump Not Even Waiting To Get Into Office Before Threatening The First Amendment, Press Freedoms
Re: Re: Talk about fake news
Bullshit.
fake
adjective
not genuine; imitation or counterfeit.
"she got on the plane with a fake passport"
synonyms: forgery, counterfeit, copy, sham, fraud, hoax, imitation, mock-up, dummy, reproduction, lookalike, likeness
antonyms: genuine
news
noun
newly received or noteworthy information, especially about recent events.
"I've got some good news for you"
a broadcast or published report of news.
plural noun: the news
'He was back in the news again"
synonyms: report, announcement, story, account
The words are clearly defined so putting them together makes something also pretty clearly defined. What fake news is not is facts and opinions that someone doesn't agree with or doesn't want to believe, which is the definition that many, Trump supporters in particular, seem to be suddenly using. Intelligent people know exactly what fake news actually is, even if they're deliberately abusing the term for their supposed benefit. Idiots may genuinely not understand the difference.
On the post: Trump Not Even Waiting To Get Into Office Before Threatening The First Amendment, Press Freedoms
Re: Re: Re:
On the post: Techdirt's First Amendment Fight For Its Life
Re: Alas
"The lawsuit is baseless in many ways because the guy did not invent email, he invented AN email. It may have been new to him, it may have been new to his country, but it wasn't new in the world. There in lies the problem: he's not wrong when he says he invented email, if you speak generally and without qualifying that point."
Let me change a word and show you how silly that argument is:
"The lawsuit is baseless in many ways because the guy did not invent the car, he invented a car. It may have been new to him, it may have been new to his country, but it wasn't new in the world. There in lies the problem: he's not wrong when he says he invented a car, if you speak generally and without qualifying that point."
Sounds ridiculous because it is. Invention by definition is creating something that didn't exist before, not a your own version version of an extant system. Naming your program Email is not 'inventing email', which is what he very specifically claims to have done.
"However, making fun of him, calling him names, and making comments about his character and such may cross the line."
Firstly, it actually it crosses no legal line at all. That's all perfectly legal and is absolutely not libel unless it's knowingly and provably false. Secondly, what you refer to as making fun of him, calling him names, and making comments about his character I would describe as quite accurate descriptions of this guy. If someone makes such egregious and easily disproved claims that almost nobody believes (where are all his supporters?), and also public shits on the people that actually invented email, he fully deserves to be ridiculed and called a liar and a fraud, because that's what he is.
"Some of the recent posts by people like Karl are starting to push on nasty insults and insinuations of things that are not easily proven."
Post some examples. I suspect you may be mocked for your choices though...
On the post: Techdirt's First Amendment Fight For Its Life
Re: Re: What goes around, comes around
On the post: Techdirt's First Amendment Fight For Its Life
Re: What goes around, comes around
So what? If people do things that make them worthy of being insulted (and TD has documented thousands of examples) then they deserve to be insulted. Of course, thin-skinned authoritarians like you perceive any accurate description you don't agree with as an insult, because how dare anyone publicly call you out!
"You could have chosen to present your arguments and let the reader decide."
Er, how is that not what happens? I read, I decide.
"But you chose, over and over, to call people names. THAT is what this case is about."
Not sure if you realise how ignorant that sounds, but this is a defamation case, which by definition is not about name-calling but about stating falsehoods. Feel free to refute any points Mike's actually made in this story that would legally quality as defamation. I note you've done nothing close to that yet. Just lots of blah, blah.
"I'm delighted that one of them finally decided to fight back."
You're delighted that the legal system is being abused in an attempt to stifle someone's constitutionally guaranteed right of free speech? Wow, that's a pretty sick attitude. You know there's no legal merit here, so you know this is a pure SLAPP case.
On the post: The FBI Is Apparently Paying Geek Squad Members To Dig Around In Computers For Evidence Of Criminal Activity
Re: FBI in the Obama era
Anyone genuinely concerned about constitutional violations would not be so eager to see a Trump administration take power.
On the post: What The US Intelligence 'Russia Hacked Our Election' Report Could Have Said... But Didn't
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hillary is a confirmed election hacker
Can you explain how learning any more about the electoral college would change the fact that Hillary got more votes? I'm not seeing the connection...
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