"if someone starts off a talk by arguing that everyone needs to be more respectful of everyone else, the probability that they will disrespect pretty much everyone quickly approaches one"
I know that a lot of people are guilty for crying "wolf" and thus ruining things. That's what's going on here. But actual push for respect and civility is a good thing, and we should encourage it.
Otherwise, nice article. What do you think about the Defensive Patent License idea?
To hae a productive discussion, agree on the meaning of terms
and then stick to those agreed meanings.
It matters not whether copyright is property or not WITHIN THIS DISCUSSION. What matters is that copyright is distinct from rights that go with physical property. Anybody who wishes to have a useful discussion needs to accept that, and I think people on both sides here DO accept that.
The problem with the words is that in arguments elsewhere (i.e. not on this precise web page), many people use some claims to accept the term "property" when it comes to copyright but then they go on to assert things about all property (copyright included) that, in reality, only apply to physical property.
Nobody need care what words are used unless the words lead to confusion about what copyright is and isn't. AND IN THIS CASE THEY DO LEAD TO CONFUSION, and often it appears that this confusion is INTENTIONAL. So, if anyone wants to insist that we use the word "property" for copyright, then please accept the burden of always qualifying this by adding "this does not mean it has all of the qualities of physical property." Then we can be clear.
Re: I cannot believe they havent said anything about how slow it is.
Johnny,
You are completely mistaken. In the U.S. the instant you publish anything it is legally copyrighted. Registration with the Library of Congress is a formality just for the sake of records.
There's lots of straw man arguments out there. You don't always get the chance to get a real live straw man on which to base your points! Mellencamp is ridiculous!
If you are able to stop me from copying something, that is not the exercise of a "right" that is POWER. Rights are freedom to do things or to avoid being subjected to things. When my actions have no direct impact on you, any influence you have has nothing to do with your rights.
Right = freedom
Power = control
Copyright is INDEED a right! The right to copy. Our copyright law isn't about protecting rights, it's about restricting them. It is about taking away this right from most people for the purpose of incentivizing creation of works.
Well, I knew about audiobooks on archive.org and elsewhere. I agree with you overall, but actually the sabotage issue has more to do with certain media. Pop music, for example, there's tons and tons of substantial stuff if we go back just a few years. There weren't that many audiobooks 30 or 40 years ago though, so that's an emerging medium.
In fact, almost all modern media is copyrighted. Public domain is puny for video, photos, audio recording… literature and sheet music are among the few items that have a substantial public domain, and they are also the media the public is most used to getting from the public library historically.
We're not used to having public domain pop songs or movies. If we had that, it could bring a big shift in our habits for buying new music or movies. Who knows…?
Personally, I basically want to see the end to all intellectual property laws. I'm just talking about what the issues are as I see them. I think there would be a downturn in the sales of new sheet music and new pop music records and new movies if copyright were brought back to shorter terms. Everyone would spend more time enjoying the public domain. Which is a good thing, though, in my opinion.
Nobody actually seems to make this argument, but there's a real reason that extending copyright on old works might have an impact on publishing for the public good:
New works have to compete against existing works for attention. As new works are under copyright, and thus less accessible than public domain, sabotaging the public domain by extending copyright on old works could help new works to compete. In other words, we incentivize new creations by restricting access to old ones.
I do not believe doing this is actually in the public interest, but it is at least a rational concept. I suspect it is more real than the other arguments. I suspect that if we suddenly brought all works older than 20 years into the public domain, there would be a substantial reduction in the sales of new works. On balance, I think this trade off would be worthwhile, but that's at least a rational debate to be had.
On the post: Some Thoughts On Fixing Problems In The Patent System
But what if I mean it about respect?
I know that a lot of people are guilty for crying "wolf" and thus ruining things. That's what's going on here. But actual push for respect and civility is a good thing, and we should encourage it.
Otherwise, nice article. What do you think about the Defensive Patent License idea?
On the post: Copyright Maximalists Attempt To Downplay Significance Of RSC Report By Chanting Their Mantra: Copyright Is Property
Re: To HAVE a productive discussion, agree on the meaning of terms
On the post: Copyright Maximalists Attempt To Downplay Significance Of RSC Report By Chanting Their Mantra: Copyright Is Property
To hae a productive discussion, agree on the meaning of terms
It matters not whether copyright is property or not WITHIN THIS DISCUSSION. What matters is that copyright is distinct from rights that go with physical property. Anybody who wishes to have a useful discussion needs to accept that, and I think people on both sides here DO accept that.
The problem with the words is that in arguments elsewhere (i.e. not on this precise web page), many people use some claims to accept the term "property" when it comes to copyright but then they go on to assert things about all property (copyright included) that, in reality, only apply to physical property.
Nobody need care what words are used unless the words lead to confusion about what copyright is and isn't. AND IN THIS CASE THEY DO LEAD TO CONFUSION, and often it appears that this confusion is INTENTIONAL. So, if anyone wants to insist that we use the word "property" for copyright, then please accept the burden of always qualifying this by adding "this does not mean it has all of the qualities of physical property." Then we can be clear.
Thanks
On the post: Supplying The Missing Ingredient In Evidence-Based Policymaking: Evidence
Thanks for the great update
On the post: House Republicans: Copyright Law Destroys Markets; It's Time For Real Reform
Re: I cannot believe they havent said anything about how slow it is.
You are completely mistaken. In the U.S. the instant you publish anything it is legally copyrighted. Registration with the Library of Congress is a formality just for the sake of records.
On the post: House Republicans: Copyright Law Destroys Markets; It's Time For Real Reform
Re: I'd switch
I've been adding to every political comment, however, that what we really need is RANGE VOTING. See rangevoting.org
On the post: Why Do Both Major Parties Suck So Badly On Civil Liberties?
Re:
On the post: John Mellencamp: Thou Shalt Not Permit The Internet To Derail Our Gravy Train
Hahahahaha
On the post: Marc Randazza Goes To War Against Revenge Porn Site Over Alleged 'Takedown Lawyer' Business Model
Re:
On the post: Copyright: The New Mercantilism
Re: "rights"
Right = freedom
Power = control
Copyright is INDEED a right! The right to copy. Our copyright law isn't about protecting rights, it's about restricting them. It is about taking away this right from most people for the purpose of incentivizing creation of works.
On the post: Do Bad Things Happen When Works Enter The Public Domain? The Data Says... No
Re: Re: There's another (bad) argument: sabotage!
In fact, almost all modern media is copyrighted. Public domain is puny for video, photos, audio recording… literature and sheet music are among the few items that have a substantial public domain, and they are also the media the public is most used to getting from the public library historically.
We're not used to having public domain pop songs or movies. If we had that, it could bring a big shift in our habits for buying new music or movies. Who knows…?
Personally, I basically want to see the end to all intellectual property laws. I'm just talking about what the issues are as I see them. I think there would be a downturn in the sales of new sheet music and new pop music records and new movies if copyright were brought back to shorter terms. Everyone would spend more time enjoying the public domain. Which is a good thing, though, in my opinion.
On the post: Do Bad Things Happen When Works Enter The Public Domain? The Data Says... No
There's another (bad) argument: sabotage!
New works have to compete against existing works for attention. As new works are under copyright, and thus less accessible than public domain, sabotaging the public domain by extending copyright on old works could help new works to compete. In other words, we incentivize new creations by restricting access to old ones.
I do not believe doing this is actually in the public interest, but it is at least a rational concept. I suspect it is more real than the other arguments. I suspect that if we suddenly brought all works older than 20 years into the public domain, there would be a substantial reduction in the sales of new works. On balance, I think this trade off would be worthwhile, but that's at least a rational debate to be had.
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