Re: Re: Re: Techdirt continues to excuse piracy away
How do you think moviemakers made money all these years - the public just didn't have any other option, so they went and bought the discs. Now they don't, as they have other options. Also, earlier movies were only competing among themselves; now they have added competition from games, the Net, etc.
This is exactly the reason why the industry must change. The marketplace has changed. Just as newspapers can't rely on classified ads anymore, filmmakers can't rely on selling plastic discs anymore. The companies that used to sell buggy whips can complain all they want about how cars will be the death of the horse-based transportation industry. But suing and complaining about customers usually doesn't win you any more customers.
Moviemaking *is* a complex business, but we're actually trying to help here. Complain all you want about how pirates are thieves. Does it really help the movie industry that much to complain about their audience? Copyright is a government-granted monopoly to encourage the creation of more content. Do we really need a "war on infringement" czar? Or should content creators adapt to the market and serve their audiences -- like every other business does?
You're basically saying that because a movie is doing well it's perfectly okay to steal that movie so you can watch it again and again at home.
No. We're not saying it's okay to break the law at all. Copyright infringement is against the law. We're talking about how filmmakers can cater to their audience without treating their fans like criminals.
Say, for example, that Microsoft has a search engine with nearly identical results to Google's results. Should Google tell potential users that they've used "stolen" search results? Or should Google try to make its search experience better than Microsoft's so that even if Microsoft displays the same results -- users will still type keywords into Google instead of Bing? That is how you compete. You don't complain about your users. Complaining does not win you any customers.
Point blank people...piracy is theft. Just come off your high horse and admit it already.
It's always easy to try to make things either black or white. Piracy is infringement. Theft usually only applies to rivalrous/excludable goods -- where if *I* take your car, you don't have that car anymore. But if someone watches a downloaded movie, it doesn't prevent anyone else from watching it. It doesn't even prevent the viewer from watching it again and again.
Techdirt is merely pointing out that businesses that want to succeed shouldn't accuse their customers of theft. There are better ways to approach the problem of piracy. The movie business is trying to squeeze the wrong people. Offering reasons to buy to those who want to buy is a better strategy than trying to chase after people (who obviously don't want to buy) with threats and punishments.
Giving content away for free might help you become more famous, but it doesn't put bacon on the table. .... For every Zombieland there are two other movies that tanked.
Movies tank all the time -- it is not due to piracy. Some movies are just bad. Other productions spent too much and found that the demand for the umpteenth sequel wasn't as high as expected. If piracy were eliminated, would that guarantee the success of all movies? Piracy is likely a minor blip on the overall revenues...
Fact is most people who downloaded it and watched will never spend a dime on it. Why would anyone embrace a market that spends little to no actual money (as a whole) on product?
There's no "lost sale" here. But more fans *can* be created. This is about adapting to take advantage of cheap distribution costs. A downloaded movie should NOT be able to compete with the "theater experience" -- and if it does, then the movie makers should try to make the theater experience *better* -- not try to go after people who were never going to go to theaters in the first place.
Actually... I want some crazy Japanese flavors now.
Some of the flavors sound really interesting... How much would Americans pay to get limited-edition Japanese flavors? Maybe those mailing labels should offer international shipping!
Thanks for stopping by! Obviously, your experiment intrigues us, so if you ever do have updates that you're willing to share -- please let us know. Perhaps the things you learn may be generalized to more folks who produce creative works.
Heh. Well the combined work of electricians and plumbers are already well-known... usually in the form of buildings and houses. Houses are generally "crowdsourced" by default. :P
I sorta wonder if you're setting up "moving goal posts" for the criteria of writing fiction. In Artificial Intelligence research, people used to say "you'll never have a computer that will beat a human at chess" -- and they don't say that anymore. But people still say, "computers can't match humans at doing X still -- or they don't play chess the same way humans do." Some AI researchers complain that the bar for intelligence keeps getting higher every time they achieve a new milestone for intelligent software.
Basically, I think we have to step back and try to recognize where crowdsourced fiction (or crowdwork in general) might have advantages and not try to focus on its shortcomings. Crowdwork may not be good for all things, but it might be very good (or better) for certain tasks.
I actually wonder if the story could be salvaged and remixed into short(er) story that excludes most of the "bad" tweets -- and if Neil Gaiman would read a remixed version for another audiobook.
Sure, if the PE album is wildly successful, the original donors have a shot at actually getting a positive return on their investment. But I'm pretty sure that any savings account will have a better return in the short term.
I'm actually interested in your experience with SellaBand -- are you planning to raise funds with the SellaBand service? Why or why not?
Fairly crappy movies with no visual effects, no stars, and little beyond being a movie is still a crappy movie. A crappy hollywood blockbuster with special effects, name stars, and a high end musical score including hit song support will do much better. There is no indication anywhere that the odds of success are equal.
It depends on how you define success. Crappy movies with no budgets won't lose much money. Crappy movies with HUGE budgets are financial disasters for the producers.
I agree that the marketplace for movies should include both "blockbusters" and "indies" -- there's a whole spectrum of movies that can exist. And to some extent, I think that TV shows will cross into the film industry more and more... as the production value of TV shows are getting closer and closer to movies...
Youtube serials will eat into the TV show market, and TV shows will eat into the movie market.. The technology and costs of production are getting cheaper, and so the market for visual content expands and grows.
I seriously think that animated films are going to be the next big thing as more story-tellers figure out how to use cheap animation to bring plotlines to audiences.
But I think the point is... it shouldn't cost $25M to promote a film anymore. And as technology gets better, the quality of "home movies" gets better and more professional-looking.
And ultimately, if you assume the odds of success for a movie is relatively constant -- wouldn't you want to try to lower costs instead of betting "big" all the time?
Re: Promotion via tech columns rather than music columns
that's an interesting point, slainson. Music review magazines are dying off... and they might be replaced with more cross-promotional magazines. Music+games, Music+fashion, Music+food... I think it'd be kinda neat to have a restaurant with a soundtrack. Maybe Yelp should add some music-reviews!
If you also look at the SellaBand site... the Public Enemy project isn't on their "charts" yet? Which is kinda strange, no? Maybe it's just me, but it seems like they're holding back on really promoting this project for some reason.
I sorta wonder who the Public Enemy fans are nowadays? People in their 30s? It'd be interesting to find out what the fan demographics are for Public Enemy.
On the post: Zombieland Director Goes After Fans, Doesn't Understand Popularity
Re: Re: Re: Techdirt continues to excuse piracy away
This is exactly the reason why the industry must change. The marketplace has changed. Just as newspapers can't rely on classified ads anymore, filmmakers can't rely on selling plastic discs anymore. The companies that used to sell buggy whips can complain all they want about how cars will be the death of the horse-based transportation industry. But suing and complaining about customers usually doesn't win you any more customers.
Moviemaking *is* a complex business, but we're actually trying to help here. Complain all you want about how pirates are thieves. Does it really help the movie industry that much to complain about their audience? Copyright is a government-granted monopoly to encourage the creation of more content. Do we really need a "war on infringement" czar? Or should content creators adapt to the market and serve their audiences -- like every other business does?
On the post: Zombieland Director Goes After Fans, Doesn't Understand Popularity
Re: Come on Techdirt
No. We're not saying it's okay to break the law at all. Copyright infringement is against the law. We're talking about how filmmakers can cater to their audience without treating their fans like criminals.
Say, for example, that Microsoft has a search engine with nearly identical results to Google's results. Should Google tell potential users that they've used "stolen" search results? Or should Google try to make its search experience better than Microsoft's so that even if Microsoft displays the same results -- users will still type keywords into Google instead of Bing? That is how you compete. You don't complain about your users. Complaining does not win you any customers.
Point blank people...piracy is theft. Just come off your high horse and admit it already.
It's always easy to try to make things either black or white. Piracy is infringement. Theft usually only applies to rivalrous/excludable goods -- where if *I* take your car, you don't have that car anymore. But if someone watches a downloaded movie, it doesn't prevent anyone else from watching it. It doesn't even prevent the viewer from watching it again and again.
Techdirt is merely pointing out that businesses that want to succeed shouldn't accuse their customers of theft. There are better ways to approach the problem of piracy. The movie business is trying to squeeze the wrong people. Offering reasons to buy to those who want to buy is a better strategy than trying to chase after people (who obviously don't want to buy) with threats and punishments.
On the post: Zombieland Director Goes After Fans, Doesn't Understand Popularity
Re: Techdirt continues to excuse piracy away
Movies tank all the time -- it is not due to piracy. Some movies are just bad. Other productions spent too much and found that the demand for the umpteenth sequel wasn't as high as expected. If piracy were eliminated, would that guarantee the success of all movies? Piracy is likely a minor blip on the overall revenues...
Fact is most people who downloaded it and watched will never spend a dime on it. Why would anyone embrace a market that spends little to no actual money (as a whole) on product?
There's no "lost sale" here. But more fans *can* be created. This is about adapting to take advantage of cheap distribution costs. A downloaded movie should NOT be able to compete with the "theater experience" -- and if it does, then the movie makers should try to make the theater experience *better* -- not try to go after people who were never going to go to theaters in the first place.
On the post: Nestle's Kit Kat Bars Give Consumers An RtB In Japan
Actually... I want some crazy Japanese flavors now.
On the post: Photographers Can Do CwF+RtB Experiments, Too
Re: Comment
Thanks for stopping by! Obviously, your experiment intrigues us, so if you ever do have updates that you're willing to share -- please let us know. Perhaps the things you learn may be generalized to more folks who produce creative works.
Keep up the good work with the experiments,
Mike Ho
On the post: Photographers Can Do CwF+RtB Experiments, Too
Re: "he'd even be able to crowdfund a new book"
http://bythom.com/d50guide.htm
On the post: Making The 'Significant Objects' Project... Even More Significant
Re: Re: Re: Re: Infinite good?
On the post: Crowdsourcing Doesn't Guarantee Quality... But It Can Be Great Advertising
Re: Artist experiments
On the post: Crowdsourcing Doesn't Guarantee Quality... But It Can Be Great Advertising
Re: Hmmm, not sure about this
Basically, I think we have to step back and try to recognize where crowdsourced fiction (or crowdwork in general) might have advantages and not try to focus on its shortcomings. Crowdwork may not be good for all things, but it might be very good (or better) for certain tasks.
On the post: Crowdsourcing Doesn't Guarantee Quality... But It Can Be Great Advertising
Re: Disingenuous Indeed
On the post: Public Enemy Trying To Get A Little Help From Its Friends
Re: Revenue
Sure, if the PE album is wildly successful, the original donors have a shot at actually getting a positive return on their investment. But I'm pretty sure that any savings account will have a better return in the short term.
I'm actually interested in your experience with SellaBand -- are you planning to raise funds with the SellaBand service? Why or why not?
On the post: Trying To Explain The Economics Of Abundance In Two Minutes Or Less With A Whiteboard
Re: I've always liked this song
On the post: Will 'Paranormal Activity' Teach The Movie Industry A Lesson?
Re: Re: Re: Shoestring budgets
It depends on how you define success. Crappy movies with no budgets won't lose much money. Crappy movies with HUGE budgets are financial disasters for the producers.
On the post: Will 'Paranormal Activity' Teach The Movie Industry A Lesson?
Re: Crowded marketplace
Youtube serials will eat into the TV show market, and TV shows will eat into the movie market.. The technology and costs of production are getting cheaper, and so the market for visual content expands and grows.
I seriously think that animated films are going to be the next big thing as more story-tellers figure out how to use cheap animation to bring plotlines to audiences.
On the post: Will 'Paranormal Activity' Teach The Movie Industry A Lesson?
Re: Shoestring budgets
And ultimately, if you assume the odds of success for a movie is relatively constant -- wouldn't you want to try to lower costs instead of betting "big" all the time?
On the post: More Evidence Suggests That iPhone App Store Doesn't Really Sell That Much...
Re: Re: I fall in to this category
On the post: Rebecca Mayes Connects With Fans By Singing About Video Games
Re: Promotion via tech columns rather than music columns
On the post: Public Enemy Trying To Get A Little Help From Its Friends
Re: Bass!!!
On the post: Public Enemy Trying To Get A Little Help From Its Friends
Re: Re: Re: Had not heard of Sellaband
I sorta wonder who the Public Enemy fans are nowadays? People in their 30s? It'd be interesting to find out what the fan demographics are for Public Enemy.
On the post: Public Enemy Trying To Get A Little Help From Its Friends
Re: Re: @Robert Ring
It's not really clear, but that's how I interpret the levels. The 50 person limit could be reached earlier if people buy the levels above that one....
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