Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yes, "teh internets" has matured and will be regulated.
My argument is that there is a responsibility to guard against illegal activity by the owners/managers of an ecosystem used by the public and from which they profit- which when left unregulated or unpoliced is subject to rampant illegal activity by its users.
I understand your argument, but don't necessarily agree with it.
If we were to implement such a system, would the rightsholders agree to changing copyright to an registration required system instead of the "everything gets copyright" system we have now. That is the only way I could see your plan working. We would need a central database of copyrights for the members of the ecosystem to work from. We would also probably need a registration fee from the rightsholders to pay for such a database.
Would that be acceptable? Or do you think that the rightsholders should benefit from such a system without incurring any of the cost to do so?
Sorry. That didn't happen. Your corrections were incorrect.
You fundamentally don't understand copyright law.
Whatever. You are free to your own opinions. I still disagree with that though, In my opinion, you are the one with some trouble understanding copyright law.
That's okay. Not many non-lawyers do.
That's just a silly type of a "no true Scotsman" argument. You can do better than that.
Anyway, I'm finished responding to your silly posts.
That's cool with me. I'm kind of tired of correcting your obvious mistakes myself.
Gotcha games are not interesting to me.
I'm not playing any sort of game here. Just simply correcting your incorrect notions concerning copyright laws. If I get something wrong, I fully expect a copyright lawyer or somebody else who is knowledgeable in this area to jump in and correct me.
Ripping and/or reencoding video is a derivative work. Only copyright holders have the statutory right to do that.
Not true. It's already been determined that I have a Fair Use right to do such things.
From RIAA v. Diamond Multimedia, 180 F. 3d 1072, 1079, 9th Circ. 1999:
In fact, the Rio's operation is entirely consistent with the Act's main purpose - the facilitation of personal use. As the Senate Report explains, "[t]he purpose of [the Act] is to ensure the right of consumers to make analog or digital audio recordings of copyrighted music for their private, noncommercial use." S. Rep. 102-294, at *86 (emphasis added). The Act does so through its home taping exemption, see 17 U.S.C. § 1008, which "protects all noncommercial copying by consumers of digital and analog musical recordings," H.R. Rep. 102-873(I), at *59. The Rio merely makes copies in order to render portable, or "space-shift," those files that already reside on a user's hard drive. Cf. Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, 464 U.S. 417, 455 (1984) (holding that "time-shifting" of copyrighted television shows with VCR's constitutes fair use under the Copyright Act, and thus is not an infringement). Such copying is paradigmatic noncommercial personal use entirely consistent with the purposes of the Act. Emphasis mine.
The copyright holder does not have any right in any way, shape, or form to dictate whether I merely listen to the commentary while working on something else, nor can (s)he tell me which of my devices I can experience the content on. If you are right you ought to be able to cite a law or link to an article proving your point.
I would also like to read an argument like that myself, if one exists. I think it would prove to be pretty humorous. I've done some cursory Google searches and can't find anyone making an argument like that all.
Read that section and try to absorb what the result is of having the sole right to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords; and to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work.
You are omitting the fact that those exclusive rights are also subject to the exceptions provided in Sections § 107 thru § 122. Which includes Fair Use. It has already been established that time-shifting and format-shifting are valid Fair Uses with digital products. Creating derivative works in the context of Fair Use is also not infringement. Those rights aren't as exclusive as you are making them out to be. Section 1201 impedes my right of Fair Use by making the act of accessing the work illegal.
If I, as the copyright holder, have to sole ability to prepare derivative works, then guess what--I'm dictating how a non-copyright holder gets to use the work.
Like I said above, that right isn't exclusive as you are thinking. I can cut all the words from your dead-tree book, rearrange them and create a collage and it could be considered Fair Use. I cannot do similar things with a DVD because I would have to circumvent the DRM to do so. See the difference?
And if that work is video content, I get to dictate how you consume that content.
Repeating something doesn't make it true. Copyright holders have never had the "right to dictate how a work is consumed". Section 1201 doesn't give you that right at all, it only removes my right to circumvent the DRM.
Ok. You don't seem to be getting my point. Section 1201 specifically restricts me from "doing what I want" with my individual copy. For example, playing a DVD on a Linux box is technically breaking the law. GeoHot was sued for modding his PlayStation 3. That is not really "doing what I want with it".
However, the copyright holder has the rights to dictate how you consume the copyrighted content.
Incorrect. Copyright grants the copyright owner the rights enumerated in 17 U.S. Code § 106.
There is nothing in there about how the copyrighted work is "consumed" whatsoever. There is also nothing about the copyright owner being able to "dictate" anything.
It's been known for ages that a person "owns" the physical media but does not own the copyrighted content.
Not really. Traditionally one has had full property rights to the individual copy that they own. For example, with a dead-tree version of a book I can write on the pages or reorder the pages or destroy chapters I dislike or whatever. Section 1201 (which is what this article is about) changed that by restricting what I am allowed to do with my property in the privacy of my home.
Section 1201 also impedes Fair Use. Without Fair Use, copyright would run afoul of the First Amendment. I'm of the opinion that Section 1201 is fundamentally unconstitutional, even with the granting of the exceptions.
This article makes me wonder if the automotive software could be replaced with open source software. That way you could actually own 100% of your vehicle.
Also, since they are claiming that they "own" a portion of your vehicle, wouldn't that also make them legally responsible for a portion of the liability that would occur when your car is in an accident?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "I can't prove the "shill" accusation" -- So, you were lying.
It's clear you don't even want this simple fact stated:
Google directly funds Mike Masnick, "editor" of Techdirt.
That is not a fact at all. All you know is that Google provided space for a Techdirt event many years ago, that the CCIA (Computer and Communications Industry Association, of which Google is a member) sponsored some research that Floor64 did and that Google is a current sponsor of the Copia Institute. Beyond that is pure speculation on your part.
In my opinion, you are bordering on libel with this unwarranted attack and you should be careful.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Consent is the ultimate Fourth Amendment waiver
Of course, most people in this type of situation aren't sufficiently wealthy to make that happen....
Perhaps. But this type of situation is what groups like the ALCU live to fight for. And once precedent was set with a case like that, the police would be forced to revise their policies going forward.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Instead of the mysteriously vague ad hom warning -- "You should be careful which way your deflections are headed." What does that even mean? -- you should state something positive.
Umm....Ok. How's this:
I'm positive that Whatever was trying to deflect the conversation away from Hollywood accounting and onto Google and that he should be careful because the big studios do the same type of things he's accusing Google of.
(PS: I'm sorry you weren't intelligent enough to figure that out for yourself.)
On the post: Recording Industry's Latest Plan To Mess Up The Internet: Do Away With Safe Harbors
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yes, "teh internets" has matured and will be regulated.
I understand your argument, but don't necessarily agree with it.
If we were to implement such a system, would the rightsholders agree to changing copyright to an registration required system instead of the "everything gets copyright" system we have now. That is the only way I could see your plan working. We would need a central database of copyrights for the members of the ecosystem to work from. We would also probably need a registration fee from the rightsholders to pay for such a database.
Would that be acceptable? Or do you think that the rightsholders should benefit from such a system without incurring any of the cost to do so?
On the post: Designer Still Pursuing Bogus Takedown Of Periodic Table Of HTML Elements; Has No Idea How Copyright Works
Tim, you should read Mike's stuff more carefully:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150222/16392430108/reminder-fair-use-is-right-not-exce ption-defense.shtml
On the post: DVD Makers Say That You Don't Really Own The DVDs You Bought... Thanks To Copyright
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Clickbait article
Sorry. That didn't happen. Your corrections were incorrect.
You fundamentally don't understand copyright law.
Whatever. You are free to your own opinions. I still disagree with that though, In my opinion, you are the one with some trouble understanding copyright law.
That's okay. Not many non-lawyers do.
That's just a silly type of a "no true Scotsman" argument. You can do better than that.
On the post: DVD Makers Say That You Don't Really Own The DVDs You Bought... Thanks To Copyright
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Clickbait article
That's cool with me. I'm kind of tired of correcting your obvious mistakes myself.
Gotcha games are not interesting to me.
I'm not playing any sort of game here. Just simply correcting your incorrect notions concerning copyright laws. If I get something wrong, I fully expect a copyright lawyer or somebody else who is knowledgeable in this area to jump in and correct me.
On the post: DVD Makers Say That You Don't Really Own The DVDs You Bought... Thanks To Copyright
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Clickbait article
Not true. It's already been determined that I have a Fair Use right to do such things.
From RIAA v. Diamond Multimedia, 180 F. 3d 1072, 1079, 9th Circ. 1999:
On the post: DVD Makers Say That You Don't Really Own The DVDs You Bought... Thanks To Copyright
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Clickbait article
I would also like to read an argument like that myself, if one exists. I think it would prove to be pretty humorous. I've done some cursory Google searches and can't find anyone making an argument like that all.
On the post: DVD Makers Say That You Don't Really Own The DVDs You Bought... Thanks To Copyright
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Clickbait article
I believe you are the one who needs to study up a bit since there is quite a bit you seem to be getting wrong.
I have been studying this stuff and discussing it with actual copyright lawyers right here in Techdirt for years now.
But anyways, this has been a mostly cordial discussion and I appreciate that fact. Take care.
On the post: DVD Makers Say That You Don't Really Own The DVDs You Bought... Thanks To Copyright
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Clickbait article
No. Fair Use is a right. And if something is determined to be Fair Use, than no infringement has occurred.
Here is Mike's thoughts on that:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150222/16392430108/reminder-fair-use-is-right-not-exception -defense.shtml
On the post: DVD Makers Say That You Don't Really Own The DVDs You Bought... Thanks To Copyright
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Clickbait article
You are omitting the fact that those exclusive rights are also subject to the exceptions provided in Sections § 107 thru § 122. Which includes Fair Use. It has already been established that time-shifting and format-shifting are valid Fair Uses with digital products. Creating derivative works in the context of Fair Use is also not infringement. Those rights aren't as exclusive as you are making them out to be. Section 1201 impedes my right of Fair Use by making the act of accessing the work illegal.
If I, as the copyright holder, have to sole ability to prepare derivative works, then guess what--I'm dictating how a non-copyright holder gets to use the work.
Like I said above, that right isn't exclusive as you are thinking. I can cut all the words from your dead-tree book, rearrange them and create a collage and it could be considered Fair Use. I cannot do similar things with a DVD because I would have to circumvent the DRM to do so. See the difference?
And if that work is video content, I get to dictate how you consume that content.
Repeating something doesn't make it true. Copyright holders have never had the "right to dictate how a work is consumed". Section 1201 doesn't give you that right at all, it only removes my right to circumvent the DRM.
On the post: DVD Makers Say That You Don't Really Own The DVDs You Bought... Thanks To Copyright
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Clickbait article
Ok. You don't seem to be getting my point. Section 1201 specifically restricts me from "doing what I want" with my individual copy. For example, playing a DVD on a Linux box is technically breaking the law. GeoHot was sued for modding his PlayStation 3. That is not really "doing what I want with it".
On the post: DVD Makers Say That You Don't Really Own The DVDs You Bought... Thanks To Copyright
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Clickbait article
Incorrect. Copyright grants the copyright owner the rights enumerated in 17 U.S. Code § 106.
There is nothing in there about how the copyrighted work is "consumed" whatsoever. There is also nothing about the copyright owner being able to "dictate" anything.
On the post: DVD Makers Say That You Don't Really Own The DVDs You Bought... Thanks To Copyright
Re: Re: Re: Clickbait article
Not really. Traditionally one has had full property rights to the individual copy that they own. For example, with a dead-tree version of a book I can write on the pages or reorder the pages or destroy chapters I dislike or whatever. Section 1201 (which is what this article is about) changed that by restricting what I am allowed to do with my property in the privacy of my home.
Section 1201 also impedes Fair Use. Without Fair Use, copyright would run afoul of the First Amendment. I'm of the opinion that Section 1201 is fundamentally unconstitutional, even with the granting of the exceptions.
On the post: GM Says That While You May Own Your Car, It Owns The Software In It, Thanks To Copyright
Open Source?
Also, since they are claiming that they "own" a portion of your vehicle, wouldn't that also make them legally responsible for a portion of the liability that would occur when your car is in an accident?
On the post: DVD Makers Say That You Don't Really Own The DVDs You Bought... Thanks To Copyright
Re: Clickbait article
I have a fair grasp of copyright law. Do you care to point out what is being misunderstood here?
On the post: Cable's Top Lobbyist Just Can't Understand Why People Like Google Better
Re: Just one simple fact. But it's being blocked!
You are not being blocked dumbass, so quit with the annoying double posts.
On the post: Cable's Top Lobbyist Just Can't Understand Why People Like Google Better
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "I can't prove the "shill" accusation" -- So, you were lying.
Google directly funds Mike Masnick, "editor" of Techdirt.
That is not a fact at all. All you know is that Google provided space for a Techdirt event many years ago, that the CCIA (Computer and Communications Industry Association, of which Google is a member) sponsored some research that Floor64 did and that Google is a current sponsor of the Copia Institute. Beyond that is pure speculation on your part.
In my opinion, you are bordering on libel with this unwarranted attack and you should be careful.
On the post: Supreme Court Rules That A Traffic Stop Ends When The 'Objective' Is 'Complete,' Rather Than Whenever The Officer Feels It Is
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Consent is the ultimate Fourth Amendment waiver
On the post: Supreme Court Rules That A Traffic Stop Ends When The 'Objective' Is 'Complete,' Rather Than Whenever The Officer Feels It Is
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Consent is the ultimate Fourth Amendment waiver
Perhaps. But this type of situation is what groups like the ALCU live to fight for. And once precedent was set with a case like that, the police would be forced to revise their policies going forward.
On the post: Cable's Top Lobbyist Just Can't Understand Why People Like Google Better
Re: All I see is Powell calmly comparing, and this Techdirt minion EXAGGERATING.
Care to point where the article was "EXAGGERATING"?
I've read through it and every statement seems to be backed up with supporting links, so where exactly is the "EXAGGERATING" part?
On the post: Richard Dreyfuss Takes Disney To Court Over Its Refusal To Allow An Outside Auditor To Examine Its Accounting Methods
Re: Re: Re: Oh Google?
Umm....Ok. How's this:
I'm positive that Whatever was trying to deflect the conversation away from Hollywood accounting and onto Google and that he should be careful because the big studios do the same type of things he's accusing Google of.
(PS: I'm sorry you weren't intelligent enough to figure that out for yourself.)
Next >>