What you're talking about, Lux, is racial profiling and not only is it morally repugnant, it wouldn't work. If you start profiling Martians, then the Martians would simply start using 3-year olds.
What No Need is talking about behavioral profiling, which does work, regardless of whether the person carrying the bomb is recognizably a Martian.
Yes, and no one has a problem with that. Well, folks with disabilities want TSA agents to be better trained to recognize their issues with them, but that would be solved if we used them like the Israelis do. So, anyway, everyone is fine with them.
Lolwhut? Obviously, you have no idea that a magnetometer is a metal detector. I have no problem with metal detectors, since they can't see you naked or touch you. They're also inexpensive, and easy to train folks to use. We've been using them in airports for years with very few complaints, none of them concerning civil liberties.
First, the groping/irradiation doesn't work. Since it doesn't work, there isn't a need to propose an alternative.
If your coffee pot is broken, you don't wait to get a new one before you toss the old one.
Second, you've repeatedly insulted the entire TechDirt community and Weigel personally, so stfu about insults.
Last, five seconds with the search engine of your choice and the words 'Israel airport security' bring up dozens of short, easy-to-read articles in the amazing security in Israel. Here's my favorite, though:
'The man' doesn't own Wikileaks. 'The man' isn't the CEO (although he is the 'editor-in-chief'). 'The man' doesn't actually upload the documents himself. 'The man' isn't even in charge, although he is on the board. Putting 'the man' in jail wouldn't actually stop anything from happening.
So, lolwhut?
His only interest is to hurt the US reputation and make it harder to operate, using classified documents.
America-bashing is a world-wide past time. Please explain why it's suddenly illegal.
In Israel profiling is used, but the concept has been widely rejected here.
That's untrue. Let me fix it for you:
In Israel, behavioral profiling is used, in addition to four layers of hard security measures, including baggage searches in bomb-proof areas. The concept hasn't been discussed here.
This whole discussion and the opt out effort are very misguided. It would seem we all get a little forgetful of the realities of the world and get caught up in our own little selfish worlds.
I absolutely disagree. Most of us are very aware of the fact that these machines and policies don't work and are not protecting us at all. We'd like to see actual security put into place, which is a good part of why we're protesting. Which is sort of the opposite of what you said.
I am definitely concerned about the scanners and the pat downs and believe that very strict guidance and oversight needs to be in place.
I am concerned about the fact that both are dangerous, useless, and expensive. The guidance needs to be away from these measures and the oversight needs to be by people who aren't financially gaining from the measures.
However, people are out there that will use every loop hole in our security to try and terrorize the population. In other works KILL PEOPLE.
Yes, so let's ditch the scanners and the pat-downs - which don't work - and trade them in for measures that do work.
Where will all these people who offer no alternatives to the scanners and pat downs but believe both are intrusive and unnecessary be when a plane falls out of the sky and a couple of hundred people are dead.
Your statement is disingenuous. First, the scanners and groping don't lessen your chances being blown out of the sky, so alternatives aren't necessary. Second, plenty of people have offered alternatives. Third, we'd be in the same place we were the many times that this has happened before.
Wait, you know that 9/11 wasn't the first time, right?
They will be in their houses trying to rationalize that they played no role in it.
It's more likely that they'll be in their houses, angry at politicians who put useless, expensive scanners in to please their lobbyists, while ignoring inexpensive safety measures that actually stood a chance of stopping the terrorists in question.
You'll be in the one trying to rationalize your role in it, just like you're trying to rationalize the loss of liberties that these scanners and pat-downs represent.
The world is not perfect but I seem to remember something from grade school:
If you have nothing constructive to say, shut up!
What grade school told you this? I'd be very interested in hearing about it, because adults don't generally encourage children to come up with constructive criticism, much less allow it in their classrooms.
Are you thinking of having nothing nice to say?
Security is invasive by its very nature.
No, it's not.
But we cannot turn our backs on the danger.
That's right, we can't, which is why we're protesting these dangerous security theater measures that are causing us bodily harm, along with harming our liberty.
The key is to accept the realities and minimize the personal impact, privacy concerns and rights issues for the good of everyone and the individual.
Yes, that's why we should get rid of the scanners and groping, and start introducing real security, Israeli-style.
A balancing act. This "opt-out"...what if terrorist had used that day to actually blow up a plane.
On Opt-Out Day, or any other day, they could simply place the bomb in a cavity. End of story.
I wonder how that would have went because you know some were thinking about it.
Actually, most security agencies think that our airports aren't the biggest targets, anymore. In regards to our airports, the terrorists have won. They believe that the next step is to cripple a highway, train station, or another urban center.
(My guess of your reaction to that statement: "Ahh! Let's put scanners and groping in front of the Mall of America!!!")
Anyways, let's work together and drive change based on the real world realities and not some mis-placed sense of personal injury. If someone seeing my naked means 200 people won't die this year, let me know where I need to line up!!!!
Loopholes like the fact that neither the scanners nor the groping can see into cavities? That's a pretty giant loophole. Since that giant loophole is there, why molest and irradiate good citizens, thereby bunching passengers into easy-to-blow-up groups?
He's not a PC fanboy; he's a police state fanboy. He repeatedly insists that laws can stop piracy, modding, and so on. He completely ignores real actual police states where piracy still runs rampant.
On the post: Why The TSA's Searches Are Unconstitutional
Re: Re: Stop whining!
What No Need is talking about behavioral profiling, which does work, regardless of whether the person carrying the bomb is recognizably a Martian.
On the post: Why The TSA's Searches Are Unconstitutional
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stop whining!
On the post: Why The TSA's Searches Are Unconstitutional
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stop whining!
On the post: Why The TSA's Searches Are Unconstitutional
Re: Re: Re: Stop whining!
If your coffee pot is broken, you don't wait to get a new one before you toss the old one.
Second, you've repeatedly insulted the entire TechDirt community and Weigel personally, so stfu about insults.
Last, five seconds with the search engine of your choice and the words 'Israel airport security' bring up dozens of short, easy-to-read articles in the amazing security in Israel. Here's my favorite, though:
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-b other
On the post: Why The TSA's Searches Are Unconstitutional
Re: Stop whining!
Yes, that's exactly what we want. In other words, we want Israel/Ben Gurion style security, which is minimally invasive and incredibly efficient.
On the post: Obama 'Considering Legal Action' Against Wikileaks
Re:
'The man' doesn't own Wikileaks. 'The man' isn't the CEO (although he is the 'editor-in-chief'). 'The man' doesn't actually upload the documents himself. 'The man' isn't even in charge, although he is on the board. Putting 'the man' in jail wouldn't actually stop anything from happening.
So, lolwhut?
His only interest is to hurt the US reputation and make it harder to operate, using classified documents.
America-bashing is a world-wide past time. Please explain why it's suddenly illegal.
On the post: Just Because 'National Opt-Out Day' Didn't Do Much, Does It Mean People Don't Care About TSA Searches?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Profiling?
On the post: Who Needs COICA When Homeland Security Gets To Seize Domain Names?
Re: Re: Re: Watching the watchers?
On the post: Just Because 'National Opt-Out Day' Didn't Do Much, Does It Mean People Don't Care About TSA Searches?
Re: Profiling?
That's untrue. Let me fix it for you:
In Israel, behavioral profiling is used, in addition to four layers of hard security measures, including baggage searches in bomb-proof areas. The concept hasn't been discussed here.
There you go!
(By the way, I'm in favor of the Israeli system.)
On the post: Just Because 'National Opt-Out Day' Didn't Do Much, Does It Mean People Don't Care About TSA Searches?
Re: Overblown
I absolutely disagree. Most of us are very aware of the fact that these machines and policies don't work and are not protecting us at all. We'd like to see actual security put into place, which is a good part of why we're protesting. Which is sort of the opposite of what you said.
I am definitely concerned about the scanners and the pat downs and believe that very strict guidance and oversight needs to be in place.
I am concerned about the fact that both are dangerous, useless, and expensive. The guidance needs to be away from these measures and the oversight needs to be by people who aren't financially gaining from the measures.
However, people are out there that will use every loop hole in our security to try and terrorize the population. In other works KILL PEOPLE.
Yes, so let's ditch the scanners and the pat-downs - which don't work - and trade them in for measures that do work.
Where will all these people who offer no alternatives to the scanners and pat downs but believe both are intrusive and unnecessary be when a plane falls out of the sky and a couple of hundred people are dead.
Your statement is disingenuous. First, the scanners and groping don't lessen your chances being blown out of the sky, so alternatives aren't necessary. Second, plenty of people have offered alternatives. Third, we'd be in the same place we were the many times that this has happened before.
Wait, you know that 9/11 wasn't the first time, right?
They will be in their houses trying to rationalize that they played no role in it.
It's more likely that they'll be in their houses, angry at politicians who put useless, expensive scanners in to please their lobbyists, while ignoring inexpensive safety measures that actually stood a chance of stopping the terrorists in question.
You'll be in the one trying to rationalize your role in it, just like you're trying to rationalize the loss of liberties that these scanners and pat-downs represent.
The world is not perfect but I seem to remember something from grade school:
If you have nothing constructive to say, shut up!
What grade school told you this? I'd be very interested in hearing about it, because adults don't generally encourage children to come up with constructive criticism, much less allow it in their classrooms.
Are you thinking of having nothing nice to say?
Security is invasive by its very nature.
No, it's not.
But we cannot turn our backs on the danger.
That's right, we can't, which is why we're protesting these dangerous security theater measures that are causing us bodily harm, along with harming our liberty.
The key is to accept the realities and minimize the personal impact, privacy concerns and rights issues for the good of everyone and the individual.
Yes, that's why we should get rid of the scanners and groping, and start introducing real security, Israeli-style.
A balancing act. This "opt-out"...what if terrorist had used that day to actually blow up a plane.
On Opt-Out Day, or any other day, they could simply place the bomb in a cavity. End of story.
I wonder how that would have went because you know some were thinking about it.
Actually, most security agencies think that our airports aren't the biggest targets, anymore. In regards to our airports, the terrorists have won. They believe that the next step is to cripple a highway, train station, or another urban center.
(My guess of your reaction to that statement: "Ahh! Let's put scanners and groping in front of the Mall of America!!!")
Anyways, let's work together and drive change based on the real world realities and not some mis-placed sense of personal injury. If someone seeing my naked means 200 people won't die this year, let me know where I need to line up!!!!
Too bad that's not what it means.
On the post: Just Because 'National Opt-Out Day' Didn't Do Much, Does It Mean People Don't Care About TSA Searches?
Re: Overblown
On the post: Just Because 'National Opt-Out Day' Didn't Do Much, Does It Mean People Don't Care About TSA Searches?
Re: The machines were off
On the post: TSA 'Demonstration' Of Gropings Backfires In Congress
Re: Re: Re: Re:
On the post: TSA 'Demonstration' Of Gropings Backfires In Congress
Re: Re:
On the post: What If We Gave Toddlers An 'F' In Walking?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Yes, it's absurd. Learning to walk takes longer than ten weeks
On the post: If Your Product Placement Is Obvious And Awkward, You're Doing It Wrong
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
On the post: TSA Claims You Need To Be Naked Scanned Or Groped After A Flight?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little -bother
On the post: Judge Says No Fair Use For Jailbreaking Xboxes; The Law Doesn't Care If Jailbreaking iPhones Is Legal
Re: Re: Is Microsoft draconian enough for you?
On the post: Judge Says No Fair Use For Jailbreaking Xboxes; The Law Doesn't Care If Jailbreaking iPhones Is Legal
Re: Is Microsoft draconian enough for you?
On the post: Historical Note: The Day Steve Jobs Dissed CDBaby
Re:
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