I would tend to agree with that statement about the intellectual theft eejit.. Realistically, there should be consequences for misbehavior and mistakes for our government as well as for private citizens.
It was in early February that the United States Department of Homeland Security took over ten websites accused of selling counterfeit goods or trafficking in child pornography. During that process they also took down a very large DNS provider, FreeDNS.
More than 84,000 sites came offline and in their place came a really intimidating sign that pretty much declared them criminals and bad people. At no time did they admit the error and make amends, but those people deserved to have a press release put out, or an apology, or at the very least, a DHS posting on their site admitting the mistake..
They lost face, they lost credibility and they lost their sites for a time. That can't happen. 84 THOUSAND victims in order to take down ten.. is not an acceptable amount of erroneous casualties.
Without due process, without real and viable evidence that you ARE violating the law, without notification, your site, my site. ANY site can be on that takedown list and then some reason for it manufactured after the fact to justify it..and if ANY property can be seized without due process and hard facts, then ALL property becomes target.
NEVER before in our history have we lost so many freedoms in so short a time, and most of them have been taken--NOT in the name of national security, in the name of safety for the Homeland.. but in the name of big business or corporate America who are funding the fight..
These are NOT pirates, they are NOT out to create a community of pirated software and sharing a link should NOT be a crime. Do you know, what users may put on your site? Do you know whether there may be a link to some software that you've not yet read or edited? A link to an online textbook, or a piece of writing that is copyrighted? I don't and my site sees only 600 a day visitors.. How much more difficult would it be to keep track of every link from every user on a site of that size.. Let's not be so quick to brand them pirates..and approve a take down without any notice.
LOL the more irritated someone makes you, the more eloquent you become.
AC tends to bring out the worst in me, I'll admit. I've always felt that ideally, closed minds should be accompanied by closed mouths, but sadly, that's not typically the case.
Anonymouse-simply because one argument takes precedence in the case, does not mean that another cannot also fit the situation as well. I believe that may be what Pacer is attempting to point out.
It's interesting that you point out the flaws and faults of others in their pointed and personal insults to you, yet you engage in that same behavior, simply couch it in underhanded commentary designed to be insulting and taunting, while not appearing so.
"Can you not take the heat, counselor? "
The reality is that your cries of protecting the children are not falling on deaf ears, they are simply not relevant here.
I am NOT an attorney, I'm a writer.. Berne Treaty and international copyright law is a hobby, not a profession, so I won't proclaim myself an expert in any of the legalities of the argument, but this much I do know.
What we are seeing is a situation that could become untenable in a very short time if challenges like this are not made.
The 84,000 websites that were shut down "accidentally", were those of law abiding citizens. While the government applauded themselves for their takedown, patted themselves on the back, and promoted their vigilance.. not a word was mentioned not apologies given for those who lost their sites and their revenue... and all were well within the law..Yet with their sites tagged with the fear inducing commentary, businesses AND people, were labeled as criminals for a time...
Which in combination with the other happenings here, is frightening on may levels. It means that casualties of this.. war on piracy.. funded by an already rich and hyper greedy media, are rampant--will only get worse-- and are deserving of no consideration at all...and it seems to me that your argument is accepting of that.. if ONE child pornography site is taken down and fifty people who are innocent are injured.. that's fine with you, the ends justify the means.
It appears to me--:) although I'm new here so I could be wrong-- that child porn is the AC watchword-- One thing has nothing to do with the other, it's simply bullshit rhetoric designed to be as inflammatory and as diversionary as possible and it's working.
AC has no clear and defensible argument. Even if the site DOES make money from the posting of those links.. it is clearly a discussion board/index of sorts.. and we could argue that Google is much more so. Albeit they are an index,they are also a chat software, and google docs are being used to link to things that are in violation too.. we could make the argument... could you find all 12 million Warez sites if you couldn't google them and get there to get your free/stolen/pirated software. It's all in how you see it, but since Google is pretty much sacrosanct, I'm guessing we won't see any infringement suits over their warez ihdexing and illegal download links.
The entire proceeding--hijacking sites-- is as unconstitutional as it gets, and child porn has nothing to do with it. In fact. I bet you can FIND child porn sites out there that aren't being seized.. the reality is that the media companies are holding the government by the throat because they are big donation factories LOL.
Realistically, if you REALLY even care about child pornography, then consider this... probably a thousand child porn sites escaped notice because the ICE was too wrapped up in kissing the corporate @ss and pulling down a few illicit tv show links..
As a Pennsylvanian who looked pretty closely at the child porn issue, it wasn't only an issue of child porn and thank goodness the judge was smart enough to know that.
You can not seize a property without due process. With no advance notice, no commentary at all, it sets a very dangerous precedent. Your website IS personal property or business property. It should be subject to the same protections under the law that your home is. Once we allow ANY property to be seized without notice, we open a door that should not be opened.
If free speech and a few links offends you,make you cry wolf.. or in your case.. child porn... I'm guessing you're part of some lock stepping media company,who pays you to suppress your common sense because people who do even a modicum of their own thinking, realize that sometimes you question the government and challenge their behavior--when it's wrong, it's wrong.
"a little rebellion now and then is a good thing" ..Jefferson
Techdirt has not posted any stories submitted by LadyMacbeth.
(untitled comment)
It was in early February that the United States Department of Homeland Security took over ten websites accused of selling counterfeit goods or trafficking in child pornography. During that process they also took down a very large DNS provider, FreeDNS.
More than 84,000 sites came offline and in their place came a really intimidating sign that pretty much declared them criminals and bad people. At no time did they admit the error and make amends, but those people deserved to have a press release put out, or an apology, or at the very least, a DHS posting on their site admitting the mistake..
They lost face, they lost credibility and they lost their sites for a time. That can't happen. 84 THOUSAND victims in order to take down ten.. is not an acceptable amount of erroneous casualties.
Without due process, without real and viable evidence that you ARE violating the law, without notification, your site, my site. ANY site can be on that takedown list and then some reason for it manufactured after the fact to justify it..and if ANY property can be seized without due process and hard facts, then ALL property becomes target.
NEVER before in our history have we lost so many freedoms in so short a time, and most of them have been taken--NOT in the name of national security, in the name of safety for the Homeland.. but in the name of big business or corporate America who are funding the fight..
These are NOT pirates, they are NOT out to create a community of pirated software and sharing a link should NOT be a crime. Do you know, what users may put on your site? Do you know whether there may be a link to some software that you've not yet read or edited? A link to an online textbook, or a piece of writing that is copyrighted? I don't and my site sees only 600 a day visitors.. How much more difficult would it be to keep track of every link from every user on a site of that size.. Let's not be so quick to brand them pirates..and approve a take down without any notice.
(untitled comment)
AC tends to bring out the worst in me, I'll admit. I've always felt that ideally, closed minds should be accompanied by closed mouths, but sadly, that's not typically the case.
Anonymouse-simply because one argument takes precedence in the case, does not mean that another cannot also fit the situation as well. I believe that may be what Pacer is attempting to point out.
It's interesting that you point out the flaws and faults of others in their pointed and personal insults to you, yet you engage in that same behavior, simply couch it in underhanded commentary designed to be insulting and taunting, while not appearing so.
"Can you not take the heat, counselor? "
The reality is that your cries of protecting the children are not falling on deaf ears, they are simply not relevant here.
I am NOT an attorney, I'm a writer.. Berne Treaty and international copyright law is a hobby, not a profession, so I won't proclaim myself an expert in any of the legalities of the argument, but this much I do know.
What we are seeing is a situation that could become untenable in a very short time if challenges like this are not made.
The 84,000 websites that were shut down "accidentally", were those of law abiding citizens. While the government applauded themselves for their takedown, patted themselves on the back, and promoted their vigilance.. not a word was mentioned not apologies given for those who lost their sites and their revenue... and all were well within the law..Yet with their sites tagged with the fear inducing commentary, businesses AND people, were labeled as criminals for a time...
Which in combination with the other happenings here, is frightening on may levels. It means that casualties of this.. war on piracy.. funded by an already rich and hyper greedy media, are rampant--will only get worse-- and are deserving of no consideration at all...and it seems to me that your argument is accepting of that.. if ONE child pornography site is taken down and fifty people who are innocent are injured.. that's fine with you, the ends justify the means.
You'd make a hell of a Republican.
ICE, Child Porn, Ludicrous arguments and other such trivia
AC has no clear and defensible argument. Even if the site DOES make money from the posting of those links.. it is clearly a discussion board/index of sorts.. and we could argue that Google is much more so. Albeit they are an index,they are also a chat software, and google docs are being used to link to things that are in violation too.. we could make the argument... could you find all 12 million Warez sites if you couldn't google them and get there to get your free/stolen/pirated software. It's all in how you see it, but since Google is pretty much sacrosanct, I'm guessing we won't see any infringement suits over their warez ihdexing and illegal download links.
The entire proceeding--hijacking sites-- is as unconstitutional as it gets, and child porn has nothing to do with it. In fact. I bet you can FIND child porn sites out there that aren't being seized.. the reality is that the media companies are holding the government by the throat because they are big donation factories LOL.
Realistically, if you REALLY even care about child pornography, then consider this... probably a thousand child porn sites escaped notice because the ICE was too wrapped up in kissing the corporate @ss and pulling down a few illicit tv show links..
As a Pennsylvanian who looked pretty closely at the child porn issue, it wasn't only an issue of child porn and thank goodness the judge was smart enough to know that.
You can not seize a property without due process. With no advance notice, no commentary at all, it sets a very dangerous precedent. Your website IS personal property or business property. It should be subject to the same protections under the law that your home is. Once we allow ANY property to be seized without notice, we open a door that should not be opened.
If free speech and a few links offends you,make you cry wolf.. or in your case.. child porn... I'm guessing you're part of some lock stepping media company,who pays you to suppress your common sense because people who do even a modicum of their own thinking, realize that sometimes you question the government and challenge their behavior--when it's wrong, it's wrong.
"a little rebellion now and then is a good thing" ..Jefferson
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