"Your position is that piracy doesn't cost anything, which is laughable."
Piracy doesn't cost near what the assorted industries say it does, which is laughable.
It may be costing a tiny fraction of what the industries in question are claiming. Most down-loaders have no intention of buying the works in question, even if they couldn't get it for free on the internet. IE... Just because someone downloaded a crappy rip of a movie, does not guarantee that they would have gone to see it, or purchased the DVD, if they couldn't download it.
Saying a big rugged bad-ass lady's man like John Wayne is gay is like saying a big rugged bad-ass lady's man like Rock Hudson is gay! ...er... uh... wait a minute...
Good, now lets turn it up further and it blows up in all company's faces. Lets make it illegal to sell anything in the USA made outside the USA. Then companies will have to stop importing shit and making it here, employing USA Citizens!
Taking a test only tests the student's ability to answer the questions on the test. That is all. A test is a terrible way to tell if the student learned the material in the course. It only tests if the student can answer the test questions correctly. But from grade school on up, that is how we teach.
No child left behind? Schools teach the test.
SATs? Big business prepping your your kids for that standardized test.
Evaluation Tests in grade school? Days spent filling in little circles with a #2 pencil every year when we could have been learning something. (Want to know what I learned indirectly from those damned tests? The theoretical existence of some pencil that isn't a #2 pencil! I didn't ever see one until I took drafting in high school.)
"why does it matter if he wrote or didn't write the questions?"
Why does it matter if the students studied from OTHER test questions? Since the Prof implied that he wrote his own questions, NONE of the bank questions should have been on the test.
This happens all the time. Colleges take the money and teach the tests. Teachers do the first three problems from the book and expect the student to reason the rest out for themselves. Testing only tests the ability to answer the questions on the test.
I have met plenty of grads that were worthless, and lots of people who didn't go to college that are invaluable!
*only slightly off topic: The Prof gets their copy and test bank for free and the students pay hundreds of dollars for their copy. Why does the world need an 11th edition of Algebra 101 or Calc 101? Math doesn't change from year to year. (Maybe at the Dr. level, bot not the 101 classes.) Profs are teaching the test, which comes free with the free book, so the publisher can charge a fortune for the student editions. The SATs are another scam. Its a business selling tests, testing materials, study guilds, SAT prep classes, etc... College is a bigger scam than ever before.
Yes, I watched the video. He is giving a new exam. I still don't think he can prove anyone cheated. What if you did cheat, but still score a really high grade in the re-test? What if you didn't cheat, but scored well? Will you be accused of cheating?
Did anyone say anything about retaking a new test?
It seems to me the big problem with cheating on a test is that you memorized a few answers without learning the material. Give everyone a new test with new questions. If they pass, they pass!
Did the students know which questions the prof was going to use on the test ahead of time? If the Prof was asking 10 questions, and the students learned ahead of time the 10 questions, and memorized the answers to those 10 questions and nothing more, they cheated both in the class and in life. They had no way to know which answers the Prof was using, and according to the article, the Prof himself said he didn't use test bank questions on his tests. As far as the students knew, NONE of those questions would be on the test.
If the answer bank had 200 questions, and the Prof used 25, the students learned the answers to 8 times as many questions as they needed. If the Prof taught from the book the test bank was associated with, and the students learned the answers to all of the questions in the test bank, they learned all the material! At that point, even if the prof. phrased his own questions, it probably would have been covered by the knowledge the students gained. I don't see any problems with this scenario.
A test tests the student's ability to answer the questions on the test. Nothing more. They were able to answer the questions very well. They apparently didn't circumvent the studying process, they accelerated it. Good for them. Who cares where they got the knowledge, as long as they got it? Well, the (Lazy?) (Lying?) Prof. apparently cares.
It would be different if they stole the Prof.'s answer guide from his desk. They didn't. They still had to correctly answer the questions posed to them. They had to learn ALL the material in the test bank because they couldn't know which few questions the prof. was going to use. Seems to me they completed the test requirements and learned the material.
If these students get out into the world and cannot do the jobs they are hired to do, they cheated themselves, but they did not cheat on this test judging by the information in the original article and what I read about it in the news.
A test only tests the student's ability to correctly answer the test questions. The student's job is to answer the test questions so they get the best score. The system is twisted so that learning is secondary to testing well. How sad.
I used to be a professional chef. In one of my earlier jobs, I worked with a grad of the Culinary Institute of America that thought he was entitles to an office at his first cooking job. He walked around making sure everyone saw his nice white chef coat with the CIA logo on it and the Cord en bleu medal around his neck, like that was supposed to get the food on the plates. He was fired the next day. (The dishwashers were making fun of him. Honestly! They were wearing the sink strainers around their necks like medals!) He passed his tests, but he couldn't cook, and he couldn't do any work at all, and he had never seen a real working kitchen in his life. But he graduated... The system is broken.
They admitted for the same reason innocent persons are coerced into taking a plea bargain.
No one is accused of taking his answer guide out of his briefcase. They studied from a resource. Just because the prof. thought the resource was not available to the student doesn't make it cheating.
A test is supposed to test your knowledge of the material, but all it really does is test your ability to pass the test. The goal of a student taking a test is to answer the questions correctly. They did. I don't see any cheating going on. In my opinion, the Prof. is upset because he got busted taking his test questions verbatim from another source.
Re: Re:
Re: Re: Re:
Piracy doesn't cost near what the assorted industries say it does, which is laughable.
It may be costing a tiny fraction of what the industries in question are claiming. Most down-loaders have no intention of buying the works in question, even if they couldn't get it for free on the internet. IE... Just because someone downloaded a crappy rip of a movie, does not guarantee that they would have gone to see it, or purchased the DVD, if they couldn't download it.
Gay?
Re: Re: Morals, judging ourselves
If presented with said bag of money, how many people would actually do it?
It is one thing to talk like a knight in shining armor, and quite another to be one.
(Honestly don't know if I could pass that test. Times are pretty hard right now...)
No more imported goods...
If a paper airplane...
Re: Sure, if...
No child left behind? Schools teach the test.
SATs? Big business prepping your your kids for that standardized test.
Evaluation Tests in grade school? Days spent filling in little circles with a #2 pencil every year when we could have been learning something. (Want to know what I learned indirectly from those damned tests? The theoretical existence of some pencil that isn't a #2 pencil! I didn't ever see one until I took drafting in high school.)
why does it matter if he wrote or didn't write the questions?
Why does it matter if the students studied from OTHER test questions? Since the Prof implied that he wrote his own questions, NONE of the bank questions should have been on the test.
Devaluing the degree
I have met plenty of grads that were worthless, and lots of people who didn't go to college that are invaluable!
*only slightly off topic: The Prof gets their copy and test bank for free and the students pay hundreds of dollars for their copy. Why does the world need an 11th edition of Algebra 101 or Calc 101? Math doesn't change from year to year. (Maybe at the Dr. level, bot not the 101 classes.) Profs are teaching the test, which comes free with the free book, so the publisher can charge a fortune for the student editions. The SATs are another scam. Its a business selling tests, testing materials, study guilds, SAT prep classes, etc... College is a bigger scam than ever before.
Re: Did anyone say anything about retaking a new test?
It is all effed up.
Cheating in real life
Did anyone say anything about retaking a new test?
It seems to me the big problem with cheating on a test is that you memorized a few answers without learning the material. Give everyone a new test with new questions. If they pass, they pass!
Re: This discussion misses the big picture
I could care less where the teacher gets his questions from. he's not the one being taught.
Maybe he should be?
I could care less where the teacher gets his questions from. he's not the one being taught.
Maybe he should be?
which questions were used?
If the answer bank had 200 questions, and the Prof used 25, the students learned the answers to 8 times as many questions as they needed. If the Prof taught from the book the test bank was associated with, and the students learned the answers to all of the questions in the test bank, they learned all the material! At that point, even if the prof. phrased his own questions, it probably would have been covered by the knowledge the students gained. I don't see any problems with this scenario.
A test...
It would be different if they stole the Prof.'s answer guide from his desk. They didn't. They still had to correctly answer the questions posed to them. They had to learn ALL the material in the test bank because they couldn't know which few questions the prof. was going to use. Seems to me they completed the test requirements and learned the material.
If these students get out into the world and cannot do the jobs they are hired to do, they cheated themselves, but they did not cheat on this test judging by the information in the original article and what I read about it in the news.
Re: Reason for Using Test Banks
I used to be a professional chef. In one of my earlier jobs, I worked with a grad of the Culinary Institute of America that thought he was entitles to an office at his first cooking job. He walked around making sure everyone saw his nice white chef coat with the CIA logo on it and the Cord en bleu medal around his neck, like that was supposed to get the food on the plates. He was fired the next day. (The dishwashers were making fun of him. Honestly! They were wearing the sink strainers around their necks like medals!) He passed his tests, but he couldn't cook, and he couldn't do any work at all, and he had never seen a real working kitchen in his life. But he graduated... The system is broken.
Re:
No one is accused of taking his answer guide out of his briefcase. They studied from a resource. Just because the prof. thought the resource was not available to the student doesn't make it cheating.
A test is supposed to test your knowledge of the material, but all it really does is test your ability to pass the test. The goal of a student taking a test is to answer the questions correctly. They did. I don't see any cheating going on. In my opinion, the Prof. is upset because he got busted taking his test questions verbatim from another source.
Re: put it that way...
Thanks, I got a chuckle out of it.
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