Blame The Video Games
from the will-it-ever-end? dept
Two stories, both found over at Geek.com show how, after all these years, people still are trying to blame video games for the actions of troubled children, rather than learning that these children need to take responsibility for their own actions. The first one is a lawyer in Florida who is trying to forcefully take over the defense of a kid accused of murder in Ohio. The guy, who is a "self-styled expert on the influence of violent video games on youths" says that he will blame video games for the crime, saying: "Whatever happened (in JoLynn's death), it was not murder... The American video industry must share the blame." Of course, all such attempts at blaming violent crimes on video games have failed miserably. Meanwhile, in New Zealand, police are warning about kids who have resorted to crime to keep up their online video game playing addiction. At least in that case, the police admit that it's more the parents' fault for leaving these kids unsupervised (they were sending their kids to the internet cafe to act as a babysitter). Either way, this brings up the old debate about trying to pass of the blame for troubled children and their actions on video games, instead of having them (and their parents) take some responsibility themselves. There's plenty of evidence (with the most obvious being that the vast majority of people who play video games are not criminals) that, for most people, video games are simply a form of entertainment. If they were really causing these crime sprees, then wouldn't we be seeing much more? Clearly, these are troubled kids, and adults around them can't accept that and need to find someone else to blame - and the video game industry makes for an easy scapegoat.
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Children's responsibility?
Children are children, and are not normally expected to have a fully-developed sense of right and wrong, a sufficient understanding of the law, nor of the full consequences - legal and otherwise - of their actions.
The question with the violent video games is whether or not they undermine the "normal" development of that understanding of right and wrong, of what's legal and what's illegal, and of what the likely consequences of misbehavior are.
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Re: Children's responsibility?
Child soldiers used in third world conflicts often make the best soldiers, because they don't hesitate to kill like grownups do. Video games risk turning kids in developed countries into having the same mentality.
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Re: Children's responsibility?
Considering the number of kids in this country who play video games, wouldn't you think there would be a bit more evidence on that front already?
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Re: Children's responsibility?
The Columbine high school massacre kids spent lots of time playing Doom.
The high-tech industry will want to say that it's really the parent's fault for letting the kids play too much video games, but video games do have an influence in spreading the notion that violence is the way to solve problems.
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Re: Children's responsibility?
Considering that 99.9999999% (or whatever) of people who play Doom do not then go out and shoot up a school, I could make the same statistical argument back to you, saying that the correlation shows video games don't cause a problem.
If what you claim is true, why aren't there more stories of video-game influenced violence?
Also, how do you respond to studies that have pointed out that video games often act as a "stress reducer", in that they let people let out aggression in a simple way that doesn't harm anyone?
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Re: Children's responsibility?
Since we cannot directly observe people's thought processes, correlation must be weighed more in psychological studies. Putting together several different correlations can support a causative link.
>Considering that 99.9999999% (or whatever) of people who play Doom do not then go out and shoot up a school,
If one person was influenced by Doom to go out and shoot up a school, is that not enough? Or should we set laws that say killing up to 10 people is OK?
Also, what about future generation of games that are more realistic? Doom is still pretty fake and cartoon-like, but what about games that show, say, babies exploding in anatomically correct, photographic detail? If there are photorealistic games in the future with titles like "SuperModel Slasher", "SimHolocaust", "Internet Predator", "Domestic Violence", "Kindergarten Chainsaw Massacre", "School Arson", will you still argue that it will have no effect whatsoever upon people?
>I could make the same statistical argument back to you, saying that the correlation shows video games don't cause a problem.
It's possible to construct a statistic that says 99% of the time, drunk drivers do not kill others. However, it still does not absolve the moral responsibility.
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Re: Children's responsibility?
There is probably a pretty good correlation betwene kids who spend too much time doing ANYTHING and kids who do poorly in school.
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They also breathed AIR every single day of their LIVES! We must find that AIR shares responsibility for that masacre...those poor kids...it wasn't their fault..
Yeah right.
As angry as I was in high school (I was picked on, got into fight, spent time isolated socially now and again) *I* knew it wasn't right to kill my classmates no matter how *ssh*le like they were...and I played "violent" video games (today's current scapegoat) and watched LOTS of "Violent" movies (the scapegoat of the eighties) and read lots of VIOLENT comic books (the scapegoat of the 50s 60s and 70s)
When are you people going to realize that people need to take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY...we've been brainwashed by lawyers into the kind of society where we can blame ANYONE (and consequently sue them...making lawyers VERY rich) *EXCEPT* ourselves.
You got hurt by a guy while you were robbing his house? Sue 'em...its not your fault.
You tripped over your shoelace and fell? Sue Nike (its happened).
You took a SLEEPING PILL and got in an accident because you went out driving? Sue the pharmaceutical company because there wasn't a warning on the bottle that specifically said you'd be drowsy..(Its happened).
Your kid got blown away by another psychopatic teenager? Chaching baby! Sue the video game companies.....
Geez...wake up a bit ya know?
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Adult's responsibility. Re: Children's responsibil
Yes, I'm sure the parents were "nice" people. Nice isn't enough.
Anyone *seriously* advocating the concept of censoring things like TV / movies / music / video games doesn't know the first F#$@ing thing about being a good parent! You can't take away the world and expect your kids to "turn out right". You have to give them self-esteem, self-confidence, and moral judgement - and most of all, CONTEXT to understand things in the world.
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Re: Adult's responsibility. Children's responsibil
A good parent knows that kids should not be playing video games that portray hurting people as "funny".
And is it fair to assume that adults have perfect moral judgement? If parents are inundated with video images that portray baby rape or burning people alive as "funny", they may be swayed into making inappropriate comments, or worse, acting them out. I've met quite a few punk rock parents who look like candidates.
People are influenced by what they see and hear around them. If video games show inappropriate social behavior, it will affect their thoughts, possibly their actions.
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Re: Adult's responsibility. Children's responsibil
Well duh. But is it right to blame and/or legislate against the video game/movie/tv media industries because parents' children play these games? Or shouldn't it be the parents' responsibility to keep their children away from them? As a child, I wasn't allowed to watch MTV until I was 13. The first R-rated film I saw was Terminator 2, when I was (I think) 11 or 12.
I saw parents with 5- and 6-year-olds in the theater at the South Park movie.
That's sick.
More and more people play video games these days. Violent crime, then, if its perpetrators are spread evenly over the population spectrum, would therefore be perpetrated by more and more people that play video games.
The new generation, especially. Violence in schools is not new, these things happened fifty years ago, just nobody talked about it, especially on a national scale.
I hear people rail on about how teenage pregancies are everywhere now, even though statistics show that it has dropped dramatically since the 1950s. People just didn't talk about it then.
So what if these kids called themselves "Neo" or "the One" or "Warriors of Freedom." If violent adolescents called themselves "Macbeth," would you seek to blame, sue, or ban Shakespeare? If they called themselves "Napoleon" or "followers of Hammurabi" would you seek to blame, sue, or ban history books?
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How does this explain the high marks of students and low crime rate of Japan? In the US, the PS2 sold over 500,000 units from the time of its release (October 2001) till the end of the year. In Japan, the PS2 sold 1.5 million units in its first weekend.... don't tell me that Japan doesn't play games as seriously as US .
When I was a child I watched voilent movies and played the violent video games all the time, but my parents sat there with me, and constantly reminded me that violence was wrong.... Now at 5 years old, I and am able to distinct between right and wrong when it comes to violence, but for some reason, adults are breeding common-sense-deficient children that can't figure anything out.... or maybe they're just not being told. Instead of being taught about violence, they're being sheltered from it, which can lead to just as devistatingly disasterous results.
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No effect?
A court case filed against Michael Carneal, the 14-year-old Paducah, Kentucky, boy who killed three students, declares that Carneal "clipped off nine shots in about a 20-second period. Eight of those shots were hits. Three were head and neck shots and were kills. That is way beyond the military standard for expert marksmanship. This was a kid who had never fired a pistol in his life, but because of his obsession with computer games had turned himself into an expert marksman." (Grossman, 16) According to Grossman, "Michael Carneal ... fired eight shots ... at a bunch of milling, scrambling, screaming children.... Even more astounding was the kill ratio. Each kid was hit once. Three were killed; one was paralyzed for life. Never, to my knowledge, in the annals of law enforcement or military or even criminal history can we find an equivalent achievement.... It turned out that while the kid had never fired a pistol before ... he held the gun in two hands. He had a blank look on his face. He never moved his feet. He never fired too far to the right or the left or up or down. He simply fired one shot at everything that popped up on his screen." (Grossman, 17)
Violemt Video games have no effects? Is it ignorance or the want to have these games around that makes people support such ideas?
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does this have to do with violent
video games
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Who claims that video games influenced them? Teens. Stupid teenagers who want to use video games as a reason to get a lower sentence.
Video games do not influence crimes, anyone who is stupid enough to think that video games show you how to socialy behave should be shot.
I played violent games since nintend was out, you dont see me taking a gun and shooting everyone I see. If you cant tell that video games are a form of entertainment then you need phychiatric help. It doesnt matter if the criminal is a kid, teen or adult, video games did not influece them to kill people. You dont learn how to use a gun by playing a video games that makes you push buttons, not a trigger.
And if anyone brings up the games that use guns like house of the dead and stuff, your shooting people that are bad, the game visually shows the guys ur killing are the "bad guys" and they are shooting you or trying to hurt you.
parents should stop blaming video games for their kids violent behavior, and start blaming themselves for raising such a horrible kid in the first place, maybe if the kid got more attention from the parent instead of the game he wouldnt turn out so bad. Why do you think attention deprived children break stuff, THEY WANT YOUR ATTENTION.
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Re: Children's responsibility?
When you grow up you learn from your guardien. Your physical and emotional character comes from the person that raises you. You develope your personality from whatever or whoever effects your daily life and when your a child you are still developping your sense of wright and wrong. Video games can effect your life, because if you are subject to the kind of violence displayed by many video games daily, then you may begin to become desensitized and may start believing that this kind of violence is not uncommen.
This does not mean at all that parents are not responsible for the majority of their childs actions. If you are allowing your child to activly paticipate in these violent videogames, then in the child's eyes you may be allowing them to actively participate in violence themselves, because you are not refusing them these games.
Videogames are just one example, many things can effect a child's development.
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So if you take alook at the kids from Columbine shooting back in 1999, the kids had problems because they were not shown a lot of attention when they were growin up. Everyone was making the comments that they said that "this is like !@#$%^ Doom." So everyone blames the game for the shooting.
Parents around the world. IF you are reading this, take care of your children, and love them as much as possible. And know that you cannot blame video games for your problem. Thank you.
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All I wil say is that I'm 14, i have been playing games all my life, and I am a magnet student, get good grades, am a devout Christian and I did not ONCE ever thought about killing another being.
And u can ask any of milions of gamers out there as well. They will all tell u the same thing, and it shows.
Like my uncle, he is 46, and a proffesional psychologist. He knows this stuff very well. He is also an avid gamer. He has played GTA, manhunt, Halo, and Resident Evil 4. He is the nicest guy u will ever meet.
So why don't u just leave the dang thread and go live with Jack Thompson? U will do the world a big favor.
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Re: Children's responsibility?
my son plays video games. not incredibly violent, gory ones, but some which do involve the useage of guns.
i get bored playing those games, but i am right there with him playing along.
he is probably the sweetest most sensitive kid you could meet. but when he's out to get a "bad guy" - ya better lookout!
do i anticipate him becoming a violent youth? never.
parents who worry about whether or not their kids are growing up violent had better take a deep look at their situation and adjust accordingly- and stop putting teh blame elsewhere. either youre doing a good job parenting or youre not- and video games shouldnt have any weight in the matter.
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oh yeah im 15 and love to play GTA oh no the worlds coming to an just cause i like to play a game were i steal cars and shoot people who are not real. Oh wait im not stupid and mentaly unstable so that means i know not to shoot someone or steal cars.
So to summerys what im saying ONLY STUPID ASS KIDS WHO ARE MENATALY UNSTABLE AND MOST LIKLY DONT HAVE A LIFE WHILE COMMIT VIOLENT ACT'S THEY SAW ON A VIDEO GAME
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Insanity
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Re: Insanity
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Re: Insanity
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No Subject Given
-Nick
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i agree
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Hi:if U R mature enough
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who to blame and how???
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DIE IN HELL
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RE: Childrens Responability
There are 2 key factors, 1) being the childs state of mind....even a grown human being can go on a rampage and kill dozens of people...2) the parents....if they cannot see that their child is having problems with what is reality and what is fiction , then they r truly to blame...
I am now 18 and was raised by a single parent... Though my mother was always working, my ability to know what was reality and fiction was never affected.... Ive even been playing games since atari and colicovison.... Ive played: Doom(all of them), Manhunt, Suffering(both), Kill Zone,and lots of others...but u dont see me walkin around with knives, shotguns, or even a pistol...most of which i own....
Its all just dependent on the 2 key factors...
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Re: RE: Childrens Responability
The ESSRB raiting should be taken into more consideration by parents whom are responsible for educating themselves about them. True I do not think a violent video game will make them violent, but I don't think a kid should be shown violence at a young age anyway. Video games are become more and more realistic and the graphics are becomming more and more lifelike. I think with this in mind the rating systems need to be enforced and policed. Not just banning video games that older more mature youth and adult can enjoy without problem.
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ESRBS
But rated T games usually have a little violence in them or they're more complex, like racing games. Rarely do you see blood or gore in them or any strong violence. I think they're ok for ages 10+ not lke what they have now (isn't it 14? Absurd.)
And rated M games are usually gorey and full of killing. So maybe it is ok to restrict them to ages 18+ but I think it should be 16+ because at 16, you can DRIVE. I THINK you could be trusted with a violent game by then. :|
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Question
The link to that story doesn't work. So, my question is, which lawyer?
Jack Thompson?
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i think videogames can be blamed
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Re: i think videogames can be blamed
and i say this like i sayed in my last commint only a stupid mentaly unstable kid while copy a violent act seen on a video game kids are alot smarter then you think i mean what are you hiding? Someone getting shoot well all they have have to do is turn on the tv and watch the news there's always some retard shootin inocint people its not like we dont already understand that its wrong seeing as we probably whould never want to get killed thats why most of use dont break the law join gangs etc we just want to live are dull uneventfull lives the way we want to, with a little of entertainment is that too much to ask
Dyllan 15 years old Straight A student and video game player
P.S. i love playing games on the internet i can meet alot more people then i could outside also i dont have to deal with the creeps and sickos like i would outside
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Who's Fault?
Its not the games that do the damage, or tv or anything else, its the parents. But this is only my opinion and being a gamer, i must be violent and out of control because i play Mercenaries.
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Who's Fault?
Its not the games that do the damage, or tv or anything else, its the parents. But this is only my opinion and being a gamer, i must be violent and out of control because i play Mercenaries.
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censorship's gay
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Really? vido games?
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