Technology vs. Jobs

from the oh-calm-down dept

For years, the Luddite crowd would make fun of companies spending on technology, complaining that there was no evidence that it helped productivity. They usually made the common mistake of looking at the aggregate result of technology - which has bad implementations more than canceling out the benefits of good implementations. Now, it appears to be the very same people are complaining that technology is costing people jobs because it actually is helping productivity. Thus, the "good news" that technology is improving productivity (the opposite of what these same people were complaining about) is now considered "bad news" because companies are now spending on technology again instead of hiring people. Of course, this is short term thinking. In the longer term, an increase in productivity, and an increase in technology buying opens up additional jobs in other sectors.
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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 13 Aug 2003 @ 5:56pm

    What if

    What if companies are making bad implementations of technology, and firing people anyway? A great many companies these days make it impossible to reach a human operator, resulting in inferior service. Since nobody can get through to a human, the companies shield themselves from complaints, and harms the business in the long run. Meanwhile, low-tech companies that value customer service get ahead.


    link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Mike, 13 Aug 2003 @ 6:04pm

      Re: What if

      True. I'm sure that is happening, but you're right that people will drift towards companies that offer better customer service.

      By the way, yesterday I had some trouble with my home cable modem connection, and had a fun time dealing with Comcast tech support. First, it takes eight levels through the touchtone tree to get to a human (2,1,1,2,1,2,1,2 for anyone who needs to call) and the first time I did, they told me that there were too many people on hold, and that I should just "call back later".

      I finally went online via dialup, and went to their website which has no information whatsoever. I clicked on an option to talk to a representative via chat, and got a "404 page not found".

      Now that's customer service.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        thecaptain, 14 Aug 2003 @ 8:27am

        Re: What if

        " but you're right that people will drift towards companies that offer better customer service."

        "Now that's customer service."

        So Mike, why haven't you "drifted" away from comcast?

        Unfortunately in these days of megacorporations, bad service no longer means lost business. Especially if the company giving the bad service is your only option.

        link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Mike, 14 Aug 2003 @ 8:59am

          Re: What if

          Unfortunately in these days of megacorporations, bad service no longer means lost business. Especially if the company giving the bad service is your only option.

          Yup. The problem is that they're my only option *right now*. However, I've been watching carefully to see when other options come to my home. As soon as I was done with Comcast, I started checking out Speakeasy again. The problem is we're too far from the CO to get any reasonable speeds at this point.

          But, the second another viable option is there, then I'm gone.

          link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    e g, 13 Aug 2003 @ 7:43pm

    jobs going going ........gone

    capitalisim = efficiency = productivity = profit margins = offshoring = lost jobs which never come back. = telemarketing = annoying calls.

    Who said capitalism was about creating jobs. It's not. It's about a FEW making alot and that PEOPLE are expendible.

    I used to think capitalism was great until i saw Clintons Economy blow away anything the recession republicans produced with their offshoring of jobs.

    I don't want to be too negative . One way to fight all the job destroyers is to buy american and to buy from companies that hire Americans and pay good wages .

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    cw, 14 Aug 2003 @ 12:27am

    No Subject Given

    "I used to think capitalism was great until i saw Clintons Economy blow away anything the recession republicans produced with their offshoring of jobs.

    I don't want to be too negative . One way to fight all the job destroyers is to buy american and to buy from companies that hire Americans and pay good wages ."

    Clinton was not anti-capitalist -- if anything, he was more consistently capitalist than the Bush administration, which has been very busy erecting barriers to trade (tarrifs on steel, agriculture, catfish). Let's not forget that Clinton was instrumental in passing GATT and NAFTA, in addition to increasing involvement in the WTO. He did not hold the protectionist position you hold.

    With respect to Mike's post, I don't really agree that every sucessive stage of automation will continue to create more jobs. As of so far, that has been the case. Automation cut production costs, allowing the savings to be used elsewhere, which promoted new industries. And of course, workers were required to help manufacture the machines used in the automation process.

    However, I think it is very possible that the need for manual labor and the more menial forms of mental labor will decline as technology advances. I believe Techdirt linked to the article about three-dimensional "printing" -- machines squirting out liquified raw material according to electronic blueprints to create physical objects. Further away is the possibility of nano-machines assembling physical objects without the aid of a human hand. Most of the work humans do now is make-work that is only necessary because the technological cost of automating the tasks involved is higher than the cost of employing workers. However, this will not always be the case.

    I don't think this is a bad thing. I'd like to live in a post-scarcity society in which the marginal cost of mass production and distribution is zero. This is already the case for information -- anything that can be reduced to binary code. It's only a matter of time before this is possible for physical objects. People are increasingly finding it unnecessary to pay for information, software, multimedia, etc. If there is no marginal costs involved in producing the basic necessities for survival, the problem the problem of tech-induced unemployment could solve itself: people simply wouldn't need to work for a living anymore.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 14 Aug 2003 @ 1:16am

      Re: No Subject Given

      "If there is no marginal costs involved in producing the basic necessities for survival, the problem the problem of tech-induced unemployment could solve itself: people simply wouldn't need to work for a living anymore."

      If they don't work for a living, what will they do? Go on welfare? With ample free time, they will have more babies.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        cw, 14 Aug 2003 @ 4:06am

        Re: No Subject Given

        Why would one require welfare services in a post-scarcity society?

        Welfare payments are only required if there housing, clothing, food and utilities bear a cost in terms of labor and resources. If technology becomes sufficiently advanced that these needs can be satisfied without human labor or resource extraction, such costs would be eliminated, as would the need for welfare.

        All forms of information that can be converted into a digital format can be copied and distributed without cost -- a file transfer only carries a cost in terms of time, and that cost continues to drop as bandwidth expands. People who create their own software and multi-media can distribute their works for free because of this. Technology is not sufficiently advanced to enable people to do this with physical matter. However, in the distant future, as technologies such as nanotech, biotech, renewable energy, "object printing", desalination, hydroponics, etc are integrated with each other and perfected, this could change. My post wasn't intended to provide a short-term solution to any problem. I was arguing against Mike's post by saying that it is possible that technology might make employment obsolete, but that this won't necessarily be a problem.

        And free time has never been the cause of high-birth rates -- that's just ridiculous. The countries with the highest birth rates are in the developing world. Labor-intensive agricultural societies have high-birth rates due to a need for helping hands on the farm, and also due to low levels of education. In industrialized societies, children are not an economic asset and education levels are higher -- Consequently, people have fewer kids. Europe and Japan's birth rates are below replacement rate, and people living in Denmark have much more free time than those living in Pakistan.

        link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      e g, 14 Aug 2003 @ 10:14am

      The few

      Your comment ' people simply wouldn't need to work for a living anymore '. Tha's just not true. The few will make the most. And i am not protectionist. I believe that countries that put up trade barriers should be dealt with differently .

      By the way if IMPORTS are so great for jobs and this country then why do we make anything in this country ??????? hmmmmmm ..........Answer that.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Arnold Layne, 14 Aug 2003 @ 8:44pm

    Technology vs. Jobs

    The author ("Mike") is obviously indulging in armchair advocacy when it comes to the technology vs human equation. He would sing a diffent sort of tune if he'd lost his job because of a so called technological advancement.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    MK, 31 May 2011 @ 2:38am

    what about people who can only handle slow pacing jobs? that will be a problem when technology takes over. i just heard on the news that now even waiters and waitresses have to worry about keeping their jobs due to technology. I think there has to be a limit on how much we can do with technology until we get our economy under control because our money is just going to get sucked dry and we'll end up having no money or jobs to function properly as a country we'll already in too much of a high dept already and we need to focus more on the problems in our country than getting newer and better technology.

    link to this | view in chronology ]


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