Diebold Drops Out Of North Carolina... Again

Is It Still Beta Once People Rely On It?

from the whose-fault? dept

Fri, Dec 23rd 2005 1:41am — Mike Masnick

We've noted how all sorts of online services have been going completely offline this past week, but does it make it any better if the service has a "beta" label slapped on it? In the past, we've joked about how so many companies are now offering up beta products, often as a marketing ploy. However, it also lets companies respond differently when things do go wrong: "don't blame us, we told you it was beta software..." or something along those lines. But does that reasoning hold? Sarah Lacy at Business Week notes that so many people have started relying on Gmail that the "well, it's a beta" excuse doesn't cut it when people get locked out of their account for days. It's not entirely clear what's happening, but apparently some people are unable to access Gmail for extended periods of time -- and Google hasn't been particularly responsive (extra amusing: to contact Google about your Gmail account they expect you to use Gmail -- which is difficult when it's not working). While some people say that it's only beta and people shouldn't complain, Lacy points out: "there is no such thing as beta testing email. It's not an application like Froogle or Google Maps that you can run sometimes, not others. You either use it, or you don't. And when you use it, you need it." It does raise some interesting questions about offering "critical" applications as betas.

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40 Comments

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Dark Assailant, 23 Dec 2005 @ 3:51am

Forward'n
I'm very dependant of Gmail and have experienced this "beta" problem. Luckily, gmail can do forwarding so I'll receive the mail even if I can't access my Gmail.

Peace...out
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Poisa, 23 Dec 2005 @ 4:04am

Re: Forward'n
I have experienced and have read posts made by other people of the fact that some emails never reach or make it out of your gmail account.

This is a very serious bug and it is 100% unacceptable.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Potti, 23 Dec 2005 @ 4:15am

Re: Forward'n
--> I'm very dependant of Gmail and have experienced this "beta" problem. Luckily, gmail can do forwarding so I'll receive the mail even if I can't access my Gmail.

I too :)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2005 @ 4:35am

Re: Forward'n
well it is a beta, you shouldnt use it for important emails so it wouldnt matter
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Format c: v:stupid /q, 23 Dec 2005 @ 4:46am

Why?
I think the bigger question is why do people use free services, then "depend" on these free services to keep running all the time, and get upset when the company that is providing the free service doesn't provide the customer service that they think they deserve?

Free services are great. I use Gmail too. But my business doesn't depend on it?

Downtime is a fact of life. But if you aren't paying for the service in the first place, you certianly can't expect to get any "normal" level of customer service.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Dark Assailant, 23 Dec 2005 @ 4:52am

Re: Why?
...Hence the forwarding

Happy Holidays
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Zeddock Miller, 23 Dec 2005 @ 4:54am

No Subject Given
You are kidding, right?
So your issue is that because we WANT a new product or service so much, the creator takes on a responsibility?
We ask for better... for free.
They start working on it.
We hear about it.
We ask for access.
We try it even though it is unfinished... for free.
We love it.
We ask for improvements.
They give us the improvements... for free!
We decide that it is so good that we will use it as a primary (because they have answered our requests so well, and for free!) and start to depend upon it.
We complain, because they did such a great job responding to what we wanted, that they are now responsible to give us a release and thereby responsibility for its dependability??!?!
I love gmail. I use it with the understanding that it is a BETA product. Thanx for the free service Google.
-zeddock
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Chris H, 23 Dec 2005 @ 4:58am

No Subject Given
The articale doesn't state it, but is it the web based interface that becomes unavailable? My POP and SMTP have been rock solid and I leave Outlook open all day long... no reported loss of connection.

If people think GMail is bad they should try the Gawab.com service I'm gradually moving away from for GMail. Every other day the entire service would go down. No POP, no HTML... nothing.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Cory Cissell, 23 Dec 2005 @ 5:06am

Think Microsoft AntiSpyware
Microsoft AntiSpyware is in beta and has been for over a year and it's on millions of PCs.

Admitadly, I haven't had any problems with it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Steve Jones (profile), 23 Dec 2005 @ 5:20am

Relying on beta stuff??
Saying it isn't fair to make "critical stuff like email" available for beta testing is just stupid. It's going to be version one, and new/buggy at some point. What would you rather them do, just keep it internal 'till THEY think it's ready, and let you suffer with a buggy version one, or do what they're doing, and let you use it - FOR FREE, I'll remind you, help you the best they can - FOR FREE, and then put up with YOUR BITCHING about something you're getting FOR FREE isn't supported well enough?

If you want to be able to complain about something, go pay for something, and get a service level agreement. If you want to enjoy leading edge technology, FOR FREE, then shut up, and be thankful for what you get.

-Steve
[ link to this | view in thread ]
baj, 23 Dec 2005 @ 5:22am

Re: Think Microsoft AntiSpyware
Good point... One other question needs to be asked here too. How LONG can a product feasibly remain in "beta" form? Google News has been beta for 2 years, Gmail has been beta from the day it hit the web... At some point the "don't rely on a beta product" becomes a negative marketing problem. My question is this. When will Gmail and Google News and all their other "beta" products go OUT of beta...?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Format c: v:stupid /q, 23 Dec 2005 @ 5:36am

Re: Think Microsoft AntiSpyware
It can be Beta until the developer thinks otherwise. If I were in their position, I probably would never un Beta somethign that I released for free (which seems to be the net standard).
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Doug, 23 Dec 2005 @ 5:42am

OR... People could not use Beta software for criti
It seems to me that if people use Beta software for a critical purpose, that is their decision, and it does not place any additional burden on the software developer. Just because a large group of people make a stupid decision (such as using Beta Email as their sole/primary email account) doesn't mean the developer needs to support it more - it just means a bunch of people made a bad decision...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2005 @ 5:54am

Beta

Is the product finished????????

If not then you are one dumbass for relying on it.

Duh.....

Yet another jackass not wanting to take responsibility for his/her own action....

[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2005 @ 5:56am

Re: Why?
Cos they are stupid....then blame the program for their ignorance.

Makes me sick thinking about it.

Its BETA. Its downright STUPID to use a beta release in a production environment.......
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2005 @ 6:00am

Re: Think Microsoft AntiSpyware

Beta's can remain in beta for as long as the programmers want.

For all you know the beta might be a testing ground for new ideas/methods that will find its way into a commercial application separate from the application that is in beta.

We do it all the time.

[ link to this | view in thread ]
cccc, 23 Dec 2005 @ 6:09am

Re: Think Microsoft AntiSpyware
Ford should call their vehicles betas.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
M, 23 Dec 2005 @ 6:13am

Can't Log in?
The sign in problem is almost certainly an Internet Setting on individual computers. Clear some cache and cookies and set IE internet settings at a default and disabled any spyware or antivirus or third-party firewall for 5 minutes then you can log in. So make sure those little extra programs allow gmail.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
tempest, 23 Dec 2005 @ 6:17am

Beta can be better.
Ive had gmail for a year now. Ive only ever not been able to login once. Now my messenger, thats not a beta, is less reliable than gmail. I think that your more likely to be heard when you complain about a beta product than one thats been out for a few years. ( now if i just knew who to give 100 gmail invites to Id be good )
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Max, 23 Dec 2005 @ 6:18am

Beta, beta, bo, beta
I've used gmail all along and not had any problems with it. No, it's not my primary method of communication with anyone, but it is pretty handy. Beta releases are called Beta because the company producing the software does not think it is ready for full commercial release yet. Many companies put out betas to get feedback. Honestly, just because people depend on it, does not mean that a company should stop calling it beta if it's still a work in progress.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
RTSniper, 23 Dec 2005 @ 6:19am

Paltalk
Paltalk at this point is a pay service and has been in beta since it's inception.... and it goes down often. I'd take a free gmail problem over a $40-$60 paltalk problem any day.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2005 @ 6:23am

Beta = Free
It's as simple as that. If you pay, it is not beta. If it's beta, it must be free. If you don't pay, don't expect support or anything. As such, it is not necessarily just a marketing ploy, but a great way to do a number of things:
1. Get market share (if you are one of the first).
2. Eliminate support costs.
3. Eliminate liability.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
paul m, 23 Dec 2005 @ 6:37am

Re: Think Microsoft AntiSpyware
Microsoft AntiSpyware is in beta and has been for over a year and it's on millions of PCs. all microsoft products are beta quality and are on millions of PCs
[ link to this | view in thread ]
G, 23 Dec 2005 @ 6:37am

Beta Gmail
I have yet to have a problem with it, but apparently some have. Is this your only email service? Have some backups people!! For instance, besides the email you pay for with your ISP (which I never really use), there's other FREE email such as Yahoo and Hotmail. I have 2 Hotmail, 1 Yahoo, and 1 Gmail account. That's besides my work email, which has web access, and my Comcast account. Forwarding is free from Gmail, so USE IT!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2005 @ 6:57am

Re: Think Microsoft AntiSpyware

oh look, a troll.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Diego Ferreyra, 23 Dec 2005 @ 6:58am

BETA means BETA!
Quoting: "You either use it, or you don't. And when you use it, you need it." It does raise some interesting questions about offering "critical" applications as betas."

That's not true. You can subscribe to a mail program like Gmail jus to try it out, until it goes out fo beta. Me and all my friends for university (all software majors) use it by sending copies of our emails there, we're just trying it out.

Still I think the "BETA" label it's becoming some sort of protection against complaints...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Tom, 23 Dec 2005 @ 7:02am

No Subject Given
It's BETA as long as the author says it's BETA. BETA is an indication of how a product is supported, not whether it's used in a production environment.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Andrew Strasser, 23 Dec 2005 @ 7:15am

Re: No Subject Given
Beta means it's not done yet. It's in it's second almost completed form after Alpha. Being a beta tester for many games on-line you learn that yes. Even though it may have been in beta for years there are still things that can crop up. I played one once that actually went passed the beta stage and then had to go back again and give everyone the next era free. This was due to a glitch that they just never hunkered down and fixed. I love beta tests and I love to see new things on the market.

Beta stages are for those stages where you "need" people to rely on your system and give it performance checks. How else would you test under load.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
me, 23 Dec 2005 @ 7:22am

No Subject Given
I use Gmail every day, and it's about the only thing that doen't crash on me. but maybe i'm just lucky.

[ link to this | view in thread ]
Alpharocker, 23 Dec 2005 @ 7:36am

Gmail isnt free
Last I checked, Google isn't a NFP or charity organization, and therefore Gmail isn't really free.
Last I checked, Google is recouping a little more than a big, fat mercedes for providing the Gmail service to its users.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
D_Basham, 23 Dec 2005 @ 7:37am

gmail is free?
Let's see, so far the argument is this: gmail is stated to be in beta. Beta versions should be free, and if gmail is free, nobody has a right to complain if the service goes down.
gmail is free the same way broadcast tv is free: because of advertisers that pay for the commercials, or in the case of gmail, the ads that appear based on the content of the email I'm reading. Presumably google is getting paid for the ads, so although gmail is "free", it's being paid for -- by advertisers (in $$$) and me (in attention).
Just because users don't have to pay for the service doesn't mean it's "free".
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jonathan, 23 Dec 2005 @ 7:54am

Re: Think Microsoft AntiSpyware
When they start making money of the product, of find a feasible marketing structure to make profit of the product, then they will probably release a version one.

Until they conclude what the profitiblity of a product ( extra difficult with a free product ) then they will remove the beta... until then... they can keep the beta for 20 years for all I care... like others here said... it's free.. it works well... they give you ton's of space...and if you had enabled fowarding, you probaly would still be getting your messages.

Google News is in beta for the same reason... there is no money in it, it's not like a search engine where people like click on google ads. The ammount of people clicking an add in their emails, especially small unintrusive text links like gmail has is small... so i doubt google is really making any money with the gmail venture, but it's a great tool for them, and it created millions of google users, which allowed them to introduce things like personlized google home page, and all that stuff.

Besides... Hotmail has bugs much more often than Gmail, and lastly like everyone else here said... your business probaly shouldnt rely on a gmail account or any product that does not have accountability in it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anthony, 23 Dec 2005 @ 7:57am

you get what you pay for
which is, in this case, nothing... so how can you expect to get anything is return? After you receive one e-mail through gmail... you get your money's worth for using the application...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Diego Ferreyra, 23 Dec 2005 @ 8:01am

Re: gmail is free?
YOU DO HAVE A RIGHT TO COMPLAIN, even if it is free. Software vendors are, and why shouldn't they, always trying to get you to use their product not the competition's. There's an ethical responsability in this. Anyway, failing to give a good product affects the company directly. But you do always have a right to complain...

"hey eat crap... I know it's crap! but it's free.."
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Andrew Strasser, 23 Dec 2005 @ 8:35am

Re: gmail is free?
and lastly didn't you make a profit off invites so not only did they give you service they let you make money off beta testing for them. If you missed out at least most of the bugs are gone :P
[ link to this | view in thread ]
You get what you pay for., 23 Dec 2005 @ 8:37am

Re: gmail is free?
You get what you pay for.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
hautedawg, 23 Dec 2005 @ 9:22am

Re: No Subject Given
Couldn't possibly agree more with your comments. It is FREE, and we get exactly what we pay for, except in this case, we are getting more. I use it exclusivly, except for junk email, and I love it. Gmail has been a great tool for me and my family, as well as my business. The few times I have had trouble accessing it I didn't panic, bitch or whine, I just realized I was glad I had something that worked MOST of the time and realized the tremendous value I was getting for a free service that worked as well as it did. So... If you want something that works all the time, create it and send a free copy of the program to me!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anand Kishore, 26 Dec 2005 @ 9:07pm

No Subject Given
Reading the above comments i've noticed people have an anti-beta attitude. According to them beta signifies people(developers) not ready to take respisibility for their own actions OR dumbasses who have put buggy code for public usage.
But actually according to me 'Beta' signifies further enhancements, feature additions and continous development. For example Gmail is still beta because its adding new features and making enhancements by the day. In the process it may happen that something might go wrong and the service could be affected for a short time span. Therefore it has made people aware of this by the word 'Beta'.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anand Kishore, 26 Dec 2005 @ 9:10pm

Re: No Subject Given
Adding to the above comment Beta signifies that the people are the testers of the product.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
http://www.65-play.com, 17 Oct 2006 @ 7:59am

http://www.65-play.com
heavy rain of dirt on the windshield Marty drove around the hole and play65 converter that the Professor had been messing with earlier Marty backgammon online When the Professor next looked at him ten minutes later he was online backgammon released his hold on the car and leaned into the board turning it onto .
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Is It Still Beta Once People Rely On It?

from the whose-fault? dept

Reader Comments

Forward'n

Re: Forward'n

Re: Forward'n

Re: Forward'n

Why?

Re: Why?

No Subject Given

No Subject Given

Think Microsoft AntiSpyware

Relying on beta stuff??

Re: Think Microsoft AntiSpyware

Re: Think Microsoft AntiSpyware

OR... People could not use Beta software for criti

Beta

Re: Why?

Re: Think Microsoft AntiSpyware

Re: Think Microsoft AntiSpyware

Can't Log in?

Beta can be better.

Beta, beta, bo, beta

Paltalk

Beta = Free

Re: Think Microsoft AntiSpyware

Beta Gmail

Re: Think Microsoft AntiSpyware

BETA means BETA!

No Subject Given

Re: No Subject Given

No Subject Given

Gmail isnt free

gmail is free?

Re: Think Microsoft AntiSpyware

you get what you pay for

Re: gmail is free?

Re: gmail is free?

Re: gmail is free?

Re: No Subject Given

No Subject Given

Re: No Subject Given

http://www.65-play.com

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