The Point Of Intellectual Property Is Not So You Get A Piece Of Everything

Oracle Completes Stage One Of Operation Open Source Buyout

Rebuilding The Internet With More Limits On Top Of The Internet... With Patents

from the seems-unlikely-to-go-anywhere dept

Tue, Feb 14th 2006 3:50am — Mike Masnick

With all the talk about network neutrality, splintering the internet and other such things, would you believe there are some who believe the best solution is to create an entirely separate internet? It's a bit of a long, rambling press release, but some developers have apparently tried to re-imagine the internet from a top-down perspective (uh oh) using a patent pending (uh oh) plan to segregate out their own little walled garden (uh oh) with "a central controlling authority" (um...) that "coordinates the activity of certified channel nodes, to ensure that the Information provided by Individuals and organizations is verifiable, uniquely identified and organized" (anyone sense a problem yet?). The general aim is good -- to create an area that's free of the worst of the internet, but focusing on centralized authorities and walled gardens seems like throwing out quite a lot of the baby with the bath water. There may be some interesting ideas here, but on the whole, it's hard to see it catching on as a unique "alternative" to the internet.

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35 Comments

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Simon, 14 Feb 2006 @ 4:37am

Dead Networking Technology Walks again
I wonder if this isn't technology companies dusting off all the old network technologies that where killed off by IP/Ethernet combination.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
J Farley, 14 Feb 2006 @ 5:16am

Controlled Internet?
"segregate out their own little walled garden"
"a central controlling authority"
"coordinates the activity of certified channel nodes, to ensure that the Information provided by Individuals and organizations is verifiable, uniquely identified and organized"
Hmmm.. are we that far removed from Adolf Hitler, Mao Tse Tung and Josef Stalin that these 'progressive' ideas to throttle free speech still bubble to the surface? As always, who is going to watching the Watchers?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous of Course, 14 Feb 2006 @ 5:48am

Re: Controlled Internet?
Just one left turn away...

There is too much propaganda on the
internet. (Any position I don't agree
with is propaganda.) Less informed
(read intelligent) people might be
mislead and must be "protected."

I reject this argument vehemently.
The most effective defense against
propaganda is a free exchange of
ideas, even the bad ones.

This is why Hitler, Mao and Stalin
desired tight controls over the
dissemination information. Anyone
that calls for such controls should
cause your peril sensing goggles to
darken.

[ link to this | view in thread ]
Dam, 14 Feb 2006 @ 6:23am

And What's So Wrong with This Idea?
The idea of a separate internet is perfectly acceptable. It is after all, not a regulated place, so why not? Users will still have the ability to go to places outside of the "new" internet, right? Of course, if the proposal is to lock down the entire net, then I'd be the first to say no way. <br><br>As someone involved in online commerce, having my customers visit my site without having to wade through tons of spam, porn and pop-up ads would be wonderful. After all, isn't this the same as a merchant locating in a mall? Instead of being on an unregulated city street, his store is in a climate controlled, relatively safe place where there is usually security.<br><br>Stop whining about your rights. No one is losing anything. We'd all gain asiginificantly better internet if the spammers, nutjobs and whackos were kept away.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Dam, 14 Feb 2006 @ 6:24am

And What's So Wrong with This Idea?
The idea of a separate internet is perfectly acceptable. It is after all, not a regulated place, so why not? Users will still have the ability to go to places outside of the "new" internet, right? Of course, if the proposal is to lock down the entire net, then I'd be the first to say no way. As someone involved in online commerce, having my customers visit my site without having to wade through tons of spam, porn and pop-up ads would be wonderful. After all, isn't this the same as a merchant locating in a mall? Instead of being on an unregulated city street, his store is in a climate controlled, relatively safe place where there is usually security. Stop whining about your rights. No one is losing anything. We'd all gain asiginificantly better internet if the spammers, nutjobs and whackos were kept away.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Luke, 14 Feb 2006 @ 7:17am

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?
Agreed! Now go away!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jimmy Bear Pearson, 14 Feb 2006 @ 7:36am

The Internet, warts and all...
The Internet is chaotic and tends to lend itself to anarchy. It contains wisdom, truth, insanity, clarity, lies, ugly, beautiful, smart, stupid, awful, wonderful, and many other facets of how people interact.

Just like the physical world.

I don't like to make generalizations. However, I think it is safe to say that if you clamp down/restrict inter-networking, it has the same effect as clamping down/restricting general humanity.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Sean, 14 Feb 2006 @ 8:37am

Re: The Internet, warts and all...
I have to aggree with this, restricting the internet IS like restricting humanity. The Internet has molded humanity into what it is today, restrict this and you restrict our growth.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
hexjones, 14 Feb 2006 @ 8:50am

No Subject Given
It would be a really cool article if you would elaborate on all of the "umm's" and "uh's" for those of us who aren't so hip to comings and goings of this kind of thing.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's good to point this out but don't stop with just pointing, tell me why those things are bad or give me links to previous statements -- please?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ron, 14 Feb 2006 @ 8:51am

A Separate Internet
I am so flippin' sick of everybody trying to make money by carving up useful things into small, segregated pieces that never seem to carry nearly the same value as the original. Everybody thinks their way is the best and only way to do things. And, all of them are guided by greed (yes, I know this is a captalistic society). Each time it happens we lose a bit more and pay a lot more. In time, all we will be left with is advertisements on top of minute pieces of verifiable, unique, pieces of information that provide no real value to anyone except the advertisers and the few lucky content providers with pockets deep enough to buy the verfication documents or the channel access. And, we will undoubtedly be forced to pay more to access this. The Internet may have a bunch of crap on it, but, when I go looking for something, I have a huge range of stuff I can look at, I always find something useful, and sometimes find an amusing side trip in the crap.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Justice Erolin, 14 Feb 2006 @ 8:53am

Re: The Internet, warts and all...
So with all this restriction, how is the Average Joe supposed to voice himself? It's almost like radiowaves where only a few stations get to voice their corporate opinions.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Beat, 14 Feb 2006 @ 8:57am

a segregated censored Internet is a perfect oxymor
...but besides of stylistic aspects, the Internet is a "virtual continent" or a "world mirror". Now, our world is made from literally everything - the most scary atrocities and pure evil to the finest and highest cultural achievements of humanity. The French have a saying: "Il faut de tout pour faire un monde" - literally: "About everything is needed to make a world"! And the Internet, as the "real world's mirror", just mirrors it.

But in the heads of many reactionaries against an open information society, this mirror seems to be "too much". Why? Because they are to find everybody but themselves politically unmature when dealing with the unfiltered information that populates the internet! What arrogance!

That's why some would like to control it - and to make something like a common TV channel out of it - those nice, rich people telling us nice, bold lies they invent - a liar elite, only fostering their riches and power. Inter"TV"? What a disgust, no thanks. There's enough shallow, streamlined "information" in the mass media that tries to make streamlined idiots out of us, everytime you sit down on your living room couch.

Using the (uncensored, unsegregated) Internet must become a citizen right - it is the only way to escape today's misuse of politically correct speak into an orwellian "newspeak". And more, it empowers everybody to question the viewpoint of broadcasting media, that always only serve to propagate a political viewpoint that satisfies the "happy few", mentionned above. What else?

The 'Net is violent, cruel, full of smut, bloodstained, dumb, full of hatred and wrath, completely nuts, shallow and deeply subjective, etc. for about 80% of it's content, but that's true for our real world, too. So why look away and letting it lock away by the same powerful people that already are in control of the other media?

Just start think about the consequences now...

Beat

"A strong weapon in the hands of a weak man always becomes a weak weapon. But a weak weapon in the hands of a strong man always becomes a strong weapon. So, in war, as always, mind the men, never the weapons."

Indian saying.

[ link to this | view in thread ]
Brian, 14 Feb 2006 @ 8:57am

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?
In general the idea of a segregated area for commerce and financial transactions isn't that bad of an idea. However, there is no need to develop an entirely new network to do it. You could simply layer it on top of the physical Internet infrastructure. Think of it as a very widely reaching VPN. Sure there are a ton of challenges involved, but nothing that can't be overcome.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
monkey, 14 Feb 2006 @ 9:35am

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?
I think the following is describing a membership based vpn. the parceling effect this could have on the internet comes not from one entity, ie: NetAlter, but the dozens, hundreds, thousands of private client-server apps which could (will) follow. When an online entity like .... Ikea decides to maintain a presence for NetAlter, but not less secure, standard IP traffic, will it mean a crapload less marketshare? Or will users subscribe to this posh new high society internet so they can acquire more swedish designed rainforest footstools?
"NetAlter is a radically superior System and Method which will offer, �Safe and Smart surfing environment�, �Super Fast Intelligent Deep Wide P2P Search�, �Robust protection against Virus and Piracy�, �GRID Supercomputing for every desktop�, �Active Collaboration�, �Protected Peer-to-Peer Personal Network� and more.

Users of applications based on NetAlter system will be able to download software, share files and information, create personal network and conduct online business without having to worry about surfing speed, junk information, unwanted advertisements, piracy, virus, spam and the myriad other issues that presently plague the internet.

Following are some of the features that NetAlter will offer over the current Internet:

SECURED GATEWAY TO SMART ENVIRONMENT

Present Internet is highly unorganized, read-only system where there are heterogeneous identities, standards and application interfaces resulting in frustration for the average internet user.

The NetAlter System offers a unified, user friendly visual interface based on standardized core browser technology, which can be customized to end-user requirement.

The NetAlter browser offers all-in-one functionality such as Multi Role (NetAlter Active, NetAlter Developer, NetAlter Service Provider, NetAlter Subscriber), Multi User, Multi tasking, Multi Language, support to Multi Collaboration and Sharing, Multiple Communication Channels (TCPIP/HTTP/Wireless, etc), Multi Platform and a variety of Styles, etc.

NetAlter will have a central controlling authority that coordinates the activity of certified channel nodes, to ensure that the Information provided by Individuals and organizations is verifiable, uniquely identified and organized."
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 14 Feb 2006 @ 9:58am

AOL

What is sounds like they are trying to create (or rather, RECREATE) is the "Next AOL"... aka, "AOL 10.0"

[ link to this | view in thread ]
Elvis Oswald, 14 Feb 2006 @ 10:12am

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?
First of all... it your site was on a "new internet" - customers would still have those annoying spyware/malware problems... unless they were only connected to the "new internet."
Of course, that's in a perfect world.
I'd bet that the new internet will be crawling with the same spyware.

And yes - we will lose something. We will lose the internet all together.

The goal of this nazi regime we have is to shut down the internet to control the alternative media. Of course... corporations use the internet... so they have to set up the new one first.

If you can't see this one coming a mile away - then perhaps you are the nutjob.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
AtariusRex, 14 Feb 2006 @ 10:31am

No Subject Given
Kind of an interesting idea.... separate Internet 'sections' governed by different sets of rules etc.....
Of course, people will still want to use the old Internet..
So there will have to be some way of connecting all the new Internets together. Something like... the Internet? Thats an awful lot like "web sites".
It sounds like a confusing(read: stupid) and superfluous level of abstraction.
Thats seems to be the new thing, drive existing technology to a new level of abstraction then take control of whatever it is that decodes it.
Isn't this almost the same thing as Internet 2.0?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Randy, 14 Feb 2006 @ 11:32am

Re: Controlled Internet?
Some areas should be seperate from the public internet. Examples would be medical information and credit card info. Not everyone on the internet should have the ability to get ahold of this type of information. This kind of information should only be available to select individuals.

This kind of data shouldn't even be kept on the same computers that are connected to public internet. Important information like this needs as many barriers from the general public as possible.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
giafly, 14 Feb 2006 @ 11:36am

Already Exists
World of Warcraft
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Nut job Galore, 14 Feb 2006 @ 11:52am

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?
"The goal of this Nazi regime"

Wow, now Bush is trying to shut down the Internet. He must be busy with all his tasks, blowing up levies, trying to kill black people (except the two he has placed in the most powerful cabinet position. First time that has been done), controlling oil to make his friends rich and destroying the environment. You are right, he must be stopped. He is the most powerful person ever and has direct control over everything.

I thought the right wing were supposed to be the wakos? What happened to those good old days? I miss the freemen, at least they had a sense of humor.

By the way, most are loosing sight of the article. It did not say the Internet was going away; just a secondary Internet would be created. We are a market driven society. If they see a market to make money with a private Internet, more power to them. Personally I think they will be losing a lot of capital on this venture.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
SmallTwig, 14 Feb 2006 @ 3:37pm

$$$
Never going to happen, it would cost too much... Same reason we never converted to the metric system (and yes, also partly due to the fact that there was no set date..)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
erik, 14 Feb 2006 @ 6:13pm

Re: Dead Networking Technology Walks again
To an extent wouldn't a gigantic ethernet connected to the internet through a choke-point/bottleneck be a better idea? To wit: what if AOL kept users almost exclusively within their network?

There are obvious drawbacks to this idea, but they would certainly be no scarier than this entirely seperate, top-down internet proposal.

And yes, semantics junkies, it's hard to call it "inter-" if it's one top-down network.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 15 Feb 2006 @ 1:51pm

By all means, let's rebuild the internet!
I dream of rebuilding the Internet from the bottom up, rather than the top down. I want some version of wireless technology to be so cheap and so broad in range that there will be overlapping networks all over the world. This wireless network could link to the original Internet, the new Internet, and any other network that appears. Various people might own little pieces of it, but no one would own or control the entire thing.

Not going to happen any time soon, I know. But I like to dream.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Yogesh, 16 Feb 2006 @ 2:16am

NetAlter Analysis
NetAlter is purely democratic and social enviornment.Deep analysis required to understand it.Multi platform active Netalter runs on evey platfor - microsoft want to take some controls of internet via longhorn.NetAlter facilitates organised internet system via minimum control & monitoring services like government provides basic facility - light,water,road,railways,medicine etc...NetAlter provides all basic services like universal identity and trust, developers trusted and certified development of products, centralize search engine,payment system, inventory of grid computing and peer-to-peer resource offerings,explorer to maintains everything in organised and catagorisewise, wizard base visual tools etc...
NetAlter dont want to take internet controls.
Subscriber gets free subscriber active browser.
provider can collaborate with oher providers in related field or subject and provide information collaboratively to subscribers so subscriber can rank,compare data e.g. mobile info from all sources.
No intermidery or minimum intermidery makes system beautifull

universal democartic grid enviormnet is everybodys dream - what u provide u get later
e.g. i provide computing powers 2 hours daily then at the end of month i get 3600 computers processing power for 1 minutes to advetise my products world wide or search certain things.

People gets low cost products and services because devlopers now able to provide it because no piracy,competition,virus,marketing cost and development cost minimize because of ready to use code and component library and collaborative development.

fastest search engine makes system powerfull
mirid of features,world wide catagorise database and organised NetAlter system makes search engine unbelivable.

browser to browser communication means peer to peer , human to human , machine to machin information and knowledge transfer is possible

billions of doller social wast savings!!!!!!!

works in diconnected environment

both internet and business application platform -rich or smart clinet as well as server or client side thin client and mobile client

Great option to migrate from internet to NetAlter
start to Convege from internet to netalter
Great disruptive technology example will change the world

My support is always with true democratic netalter universal i-governance

[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thomas, 16 Feb 2006 @ 2:35am

Makes Business Sense Maybe not Common Sense
Hey,
I went to their site. The site is not very informative. Maybe there is a reason for not publishing all the details. After all this is the Internet where people copy ideas on the fly. Seems like their final product is under Work-In-Progress and IN WRAPS.
But I liked the read on their FAQs.
Summarising, I think this is what NetAlter has to Offer.
It certainly DOES NOT seem like a replacement for current Internet but more of ANOTHER FREE CHOICE to the monopoly of the current Internet which will be eventually controlled by the likes of Google, Chinese Government, etc.
They seem to have invented a more organized form of Internet System (READ NOT INTERNET 2 KIND OF BACKBONE) which offers a Personal Network that does not have any form of controls (the likes of chinese government, microsoft, et al). I think the creator of the Personal Network is the administrator of the same. (similar to blogs and boards).
Yet, there seems to exist a central controlling authority that merely issues Identity TAGs to published content so that the Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) of the owners are protected and that too only those which get published in the NetAlter Public domain.
Maybe I can finally make money on the Net. lol.
This should also prevent hackers, SCAMs and virus spreading through the public network. Cheers for that!!!
NetAlter seems to have a far more intelligent Search Engine. It claims to provide super fast search based on supercomputing grid. This could mean that your search query will be processed using the power of hundreds of computers in the GRID with the results displayed instantly to you. The Search also promises date wise listing and filtering of Search Results. This would be fantastic as I would then be able to know if the information is outdated or more recent.
Move over Google, Here comes NetAlter...
The Best part is that NetAlter will be available FREE.
Yes, I wish it were less controlled but then how different it would be from the present Internet.
Thomas
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thomas, 16 Feb 2006 @ 2:39am

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?
You are right. Most of the stuff that is peddled on the internet requires lot of research before making a purchase decision. A more regulated system can bring back trust into ecommerce.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thomas, 16 Feb 2006 @ 2:46am

Re: The Internet, warts and all...
I think this new system will only regulate the public domain so that people do not upload virus, spams and other unwanted things. Then they claim to offer a completely FREE personal domain or network based on Peer-To-Peer technology that is searchable using their search engine. But people will know that this information is from a private domain and un regulated and hence could be malicious. In present Internet system, I will trust something only if it is from Amazon or CNN. And when I did venture beyond these, I get loads of crap and trojans on my computer that just dont seem to go away.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thomas, 16 Feb 2006 @ 3:02am

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?
I think the company which has invented this NEW INTERNET are themselves are not going to develop the entire stuff. What seems more plausible is that they are patenting the ideas so that if and when Google or Microsoft wants to develop something like this, they have to come to them. Cause, they patented the invention stupid.
I happened to contact the company which is developing this concept. According to them they would be releasing soon the Beta Version of a Browser Interface which people can download and start creating their Personal Networks and Developers would be invited to develop applications around this browser interface offering solutions commonly available on the present internet but minus the virus, scams and malicious code. Also I believe the browser interface will allow developers to collaborate among themselves by sharing code (and actually get paid for that by other developers instead of copy and paste)
The personal network they say won't be regulated.
The only regulation is registration of the unique Identity of a user. So if I want to create 100 Personal Networks on NetAlter, it will carry my single identity whereas on the present Internet I can pretend to be whosoever I want to be and create a zillion Networks in the form of Blogs and Boards.
I think they are starting with the Beta Version of the browser and keep adding components. They are also considering offering Open Source development.
They were not ready to share more than this as their Patent application is still pending.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thomas, 16 Feb 2006 @ 3:05am

Re: Dead Networking Technology Walks again
They seem to have some kind of Internet GRID kind of offering that will turn our desktop computer into supercomputers similar to SETI but in which you can use the resources of other computers to perform search and run applications. They call it Democratic GRID supercomputing which means if you share 10% of the resource of your computer then you get back 10% from the GRID.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
hitech, 20 Feb 2006 @ 9:26pm

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?
first netalter site is not secure .
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Super Tech, 20 Feb 2006 @ 10:10pm

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?
you r true because of unsecure internet
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John Clark, 7 Mar 2006 @ 4:08am

Rebuilding The Internet With More Limits On Top Of
It's already been done, it's called AOL.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Super Tech, 8 Mar 2006 @ 12:46am

Re: Rebuilding The Internet With More Limits On To
AOL???
[ link to this | view in thread ]
User, 6 Apr 2006 @ 3:06am

Re: Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?
what's wrong with this idea? I wouldn't like to say that anything is wrong with it, but i can think of two things that would certainly contribute to its success.... if it was open source and if the project was a collaborative effort of the internet community designed for the participation of anybody wishing to contribute.

this is a service for the people and people need to take control. if i look to the vision of the future i wish to live in, i see no place for IPR. please everybody lets share and focus on innovative ideas which provide an alternative to our consumer based society. Lets try to move from consumerism to contributionism. if we all contribute to the system the system will provide. if we did everything with the consideration of others at heart we would receive more than enough to keep us happy in almost every moment of our lives.

NetAlter's ideas are not NetAlter's ideas. they are OUR ideas. close your eyes and think of services which would provide the greatest good for all humanity and i'm sure you'll come up with ideas supposedly owned by some individual or organization. So by thinking about what is best for everybody did you just steal an idea for which you should be prosecuted? Its very sad. personally i dont wish to support any system which supports and relies upon ideas which i believe do not serve the interests of the people. I like the NetAlter vision, but i wish it was more open.

open source or not, these guys are focusing on implementing a great service and though their approach differs from route i would like to see taken, the NetAlter team do seem to have good intentions. i hope the project develops in a positive direction.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
doug, 19 May 2006 @ 2:10pm

Re: Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?
> I happened to contact the company which is developing this concept.

Are you quite sure you don't work for the company?
[ link to this | view in thread ]

The Point Of Intellectual Property Is Not So You Get A Piece Of Everything

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Rebuilding The Internet With More Limits On Top Of The Internet... With Patents

from the seems-unlikely-to-go-anywhere dept

Reader Comments

Dead Networking Technology Walks again

Controlled Internet?

Re: Controlled Internet?

And What's So Wrong with This Idea?

And What's So Wrong with This Idea?

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?

The Internet, warts and all...

Re: The Internet, warts and all...

No Subject Given

A Separate Internet

Re: The Internet, warts and all...

a segregated censored Internet is a perfect oxymor

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?

AOL

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?

No Subject Given

Re: Controlled Internet?

Already Exists

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?

$$$

Re: Dead Networking Technology Walks again

By all means, let's rebuild the internet!

NetAlter Analysis

Makes Business Sense Maybe not Common Sense

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?

Re: The Internet, warts and all...

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?

Re: Dead Networking Technology Walks again

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?

Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?

Rebuilding The Internet With More Limits On Top Of

Re: Rebuilding The Internet With More Limits On To

Re: Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?

Re: Re: And What's So Wrong with This Idea?

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