Suing Google Because Your Google Site Ranking Sucks
from the try-again dept
A few years back, you may recall the "SearchKing" case, where Google penalized a search engine optimizer for gaming its system -- a fairly common practice in the company's ongoing attempts to keep search engine spammers out, while making searches more relevant. Well, in this case, the guy wasn't too happy (and it certainly didn't reflect well on his optimization technique), and he eventually sued Google. It didn't take long at all for a judge to dismiss the case, noting that Google's ranking was their opinion and, thus, protected free speech. However, with so many sites relying so much on Google, and the constant shifts in rankings, you knew it was only a matter of time before such a case popped up again. Google has now been sued by a firm that is upset at its ranking. While the article isn't entirely clear, it sounds like this was a site that was entirely blacklisted, probably for its own aggressive search engine optimization techniques -- and so they're trying to set up a class action suit on behalf of all sites blacklisted by Google. This seems just as silly (and as likely to succeed) as the original case, but the lawyers this time are trying a slightly different argument. They're suggesting that Google is an "essential facility" and by penalizing sites with no explanation and no recourse, they're unfairly hurting businesses. Of course, proving Google as an "essential facility" may take a bit of work -- and could open up the floodgates. The real issue is that, even though many companies do, relying on a single source as a way of driving business is always a risky position to be in. It's a business decision to rely on Google, and not look for other methods of driving traffic. Google is an outside party and can do what they want. While many people do rely on Google, that doesn't mean they have to do anything for other sites, other than try to keep their index as relevant as possible to keep their users happy.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Real goal
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Re: Real goal
Search functions are easy to find but to figure out someone else's alogrithm is quite the feat.
Though i still believe Google is in the business of making money. My 2 ents. For what it's worth which ain't much it seems.
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Re: Real goal
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Re: Real goal
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Re: Real goal
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Techdirt editors ignore visitors... news at NEVER
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Re: Techdirt editors ignore visitors... news at NE
This is not the spot for this, but since you asked it here...
We have spent the week gathering all the feedback and have been implementing a number of changes. Please be patient. Many of the changes are already in place and more are coming shortly. However, we want to test things to make sure they work properly.
The VAST majority of the feedback has been positive. There are a few changes that enough people wanted that we will be implementing shortly.
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Re: Re: Techdirt editors ignore visitors... news a
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Re: Re: Techdirt editors ignore visitors... news a
A) Leave.
B) Create your own site that includes whatever ridiculous features that please your bossy, little mind.
Also, why would you complain about your retarded feedback here in the comment section of a story? Does it not seem a bit out of place to you?
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Re: Re: Techdirt editors ignore visitors... news at NE
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Re: Techdirt editors ignore visitors... news at NE
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Re: Techdirt editors ignore visitors... news at NE
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Google Rankins, #1 or #2 or #3 or even #4,567,890
scenario #2: The company gets onto google's search ranking and is #1 for a day - until they get shuffled in a relevancey order, in which case the company will remain #1 or #2 or #3 or even #4,567,890 for a particular term.
scenario #3: The company gets on to google again and no one searches for the company other than to badmouth it for it's low low low attack methods.
scenario #4: The company wins the case and Google has to pay out a class action suit on behalf of all sites blacklisted by from Google. How is any company to claim "lost income" by relevancy of search engines? If that was possible, then wouldn't anyone listed in Google be able to determine their $$$ growth over the upcoming years - based SOLELY upon being listed (i mean "ranked by") Google's search engine... by relevance of end-user's search term.
scenario #5: This is St.Patty's day - and I guess this a weekend-post regarding [GREEN] money... or I'm way off on everything, eh?
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KinderStart.Com Sues Google
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KinderStart suing Google
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violating tos
you break the rules, you pay accordingly, why do they expect to be treated any differenlty?
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Re:
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Demolition Man
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Hmm
And with regards to this article, Google has money now, these kinds of cases are going to pop up every couple of weeks..
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America RULEZ!!
We can sue for hot coffee, bad air, and free search enegines!!!
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Re: America RULEZ!!
but come too think about it it was a long time a go...........
i don't think we are free any more????
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So Google is in the child education business now?
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Again
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Re: Again
I think your rule about fame would more accurately be explained as "The higher you rise, the more people know of you, and so, the more enemies you aquire."
The reasons that others become your enemy, whether it be jealousy, a belief that you have, in some way, treated them unfairly, or whatever other reason the masses will invent, are irrelevent. There are whiners and complainers that have to throw a big hissy fit whenever they don't get their way. The more people you become exposed to, the more of those ridiculous people you come in contact with.
You will always have enemies. The more people that know you, the more enemies you have. Unfortunately, it's a simple universal law.
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Uncle Ben says...
It looks as if Kinderstart.com is a database-driven, link-heavy site. Our Absolute Michigan site is as well.
Google seems to be penalizing such sites heavily. The rationale I have heard is that many of these are merely sites created to snare traffic (and reap Adword revenue - how ironic is that?). What that rationale ignores is sites which are truly seeking to become trusted guides to a subject area, something that Google is very poor at.
Don't believe me? Search "Michigan links" and ask if there is any logical reason that the "Militia Links" or "Northport, Michigan: Links" site should have a higher ranking than our Ab Mich site for that query. 6 months ago, we were number one. We have added thousands of more links to REAL web sites and yet our ranking falls.
Google wields enormous power and we all know that means they bear enormous responsibility.
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Re: Uncle Ben says...
You want high Google rank? Put up a website with meaningful content, get other people's websites on similar topic to link to your website, and watch your rank climb.
Directory-style sites are passe, we don't need them anymore - we have Google!
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Re: Uncle Ben says...
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Google's responsibility
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Re: Uncle Ben says...
No, actually, they don't. They're a private company. They don't charge for their information. They have a 1st Amendment right to publish their opinion. If you don't like it, tough. If you rely on their opinion for your business model, also tough. Try advertising.
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Re: Re: Uncle Ben says...
You may be right, I'm not an attorney, however, this resonates to me on the same level as people suing Microsoft or the old Bell Telephone (before the breakup). Even if you are a private company, if your business becomes so ubiquitous or indispensible that people can't do without it, then the the case for anti-trust may be used. There are lots of search engines but one could argue that the popularity and universal acceptance of the google site may have made it the Microsoft of searching. Just a thought.
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Re: Uncle Ben says...
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Evil corporations!
Besides that, Google only promises to do things the way they want to - there is no contract with the listed site's owners to be fair and equitable.
Sounds like this site was reaping benefits from Google's generosity and when it changed they got upset.
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RE: Uncle Ben
Try writing some new content every once in a while.
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Re: RE: Uncle Ben
The resources have been reviewed by HUMAN eyes and are all in Michigan - and all authentic sites. Try a google search for "Michigan parks" and see what you get.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's a useful service.
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Re: Re: RE: Uncle Ben
Why should someone include you in their database of records if they dont want you in it?
to put that another way
Do you expect a woman who doesnt want to have sex to be forced to have sex?
Gopogle like women, have rights, unfortunately
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Re: Re: Re: RE: Uncle Ben
My point is that when somebody is looking for "Michigan parks", they are more than likely unsure of anything more than they are looking for a park in Michigan. For that search and state of mind, a site like ours works better than the site for a specific Michigan park.
Our team knows the state of Michigan and spends hours every day weeding through the mass of news and information to distill essential items as we see them. We forge connections between stories and REAL businesses, organizations and individuals. To be artificially penalized for doing this is (in my opinion) wrong.
While you are correct that there is no grounds to force google to include a site in its database, the fact remains that Google wields a vast and largely unchecked power to control what gets seen and what doesn't. I suppose if you agree with their decisions, then it desn't matter who they're censoring.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Uncle Ben
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Uncle Ben Says...
What I'm really trying to grasp here is how this company intends to prove that google owes it because it's been blacklisted. Let's say, for instance, I have a lot of friends--and I do. I go to a resturant and eat, I then judge that the food is horrible or maybe someone who worked there was a prick or something, right? So I tell my friends, about my experience or maybe they ask me if I've been to the resturant, in which case I would then tell them not to go, or simply just say "I wouldn't reccomend it." Can the resturant then sue me because I've somehow damaged their business by not reccomending it to a friend?
What I'm really saying is, how can they blame google for their lack of business? There are plenty of other ways out there to advertise. They don't pay google to advertise their website, google is not the only way to access their website. So how can google owe them anything?
Now, if the internet as a whole just up and decided to not let anyone access that website (which I'm pretty sure is just about impossible). Then maybe they would have a case (just not one against google, though).
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Re: Uncle Ben Says...
The point is that GOOGLE IS UBIQUITOUS. It is a verb. Paying attention to what Google is doing is a good idea since they are building the OS of the future -- today.
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Re: Re: Uncle Ben Says...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Uncle Ben
I've found Google doesn't censor things as badly as some other entities out there that shouldn't even censor a thing. Just take a Google-fu toward my direction once. You'll see Google had me a copy of those pages as soon as I needed them even when they disappeard. I don't want a link farm Google finds what is being looked for if you word yourself correctly. That's what i like about the service and you're an idiot if you think that they have total control, because if so then those two ents that started as cents would have most likely been able to do something about what was being seen by not just me everyone around me at times.
Bad Company to be messing with right now. They have a lot of power as they are working with our Govt., our Govt. forgot that a few times and needed to be retold that's the only real problem. Google works as it's supposed to it finds links not links to links to links. Check neurology you'll love that section you idiot link farm owners.
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Suing Google Because Your Google Site Ranking Suck
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pfffft
> I want what I want now!
Both with regard to the forum and with regard to the case.
Both topics are about folks which solve their problems by demanding louder. Even children learn that this is not appropriate or constructive. In an adult world it means the US leads the world
restricting our freedoms in order to comply with people who
cannot negotiate responsibly. Sometimes you have right of way, sometimes you dont. You are responsible for honoring that in order to have a free society.
A free society is one where you understand that other people need to have right of way, this is the means that you sometimes have right of way. You are responsible for negotiating in ways which
do not reduce the freedoms of others.
Both threads are tantrums. Learn to value your freedom, and that of others, operate your businesses and communications in ways which see things from the perspective of other people, avoid suing people to reduce those freedoms for all of us.
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Re: pfffft
I'm standing and cheering your comment! So many in this "land of the free" believe that the world "owes" them and have no concern of the "cost" to others. That is the trend in our government, right down to the way people behave in the aisles of the supermarket. It's deplorable the "ME, ME, ME" society that we Americans have become. Many other countries are laughing, 'Those FREE Americans don't understand what the term or theory of FREEDOM really means.'
Thank you for stating the simple truth.
Mekales
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I wish a lawsuit
Think about it. Rankings change regularly because sites that are at the top of a search give those site owners a taste of what high traffic can do. What happens when the site then drops off? The site owner gets desparate and possibly gives Google money (via adwords) so they will show up again on the first page of a search.
They MUST protect their algorithm because if people found out that it's quite simplistic and mainly used to drive businesses to their ad programs, even more lawsuits would ensue.
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If the company can't survive without a good ranking on Google, they probably would not survive anyway.
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Re: It is greed, plain and simple.
"But," you ask, "why would the haves sue the have-nots? The have-nots don't have enough money to be worth suing!"
I'm glad you asked. The have-nots don't have much money but they do have voices and often the haves want to silence them. For example, I've seen many cases where have-nots have given open, honest, factual accounts of bad experiences they have had with companies, only to have the companies come after them with lawsuits to shut them up and to shut up anyone else who might be tempted to give an honest account of their bad experiences with the company. The result is often just what the poorly behaving haves want--lots of have-nots who censor themselves and spread the word to each other that they should all censor themselves, lest they be sued by the haves.
So, argue for tort reform all you want but do so with the knowledge that the strong sometimes prey on the weak and our system is set up by the strong to make that possible.
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This analayis or lack thereof
I attribute this to the educational background of the typical TECHDIRT contributor.
All "tech", no poli sci, no sociology, very llttle economcs other than Econ 101 knee-jerk "free-market" jingoism.
I charge these contribors with stepping back, taking some time, and really thinking HARD about Google's role in Modern Society and its massive success; and given that role, and that massive success, its attendant substantial SOCIETAL OBLIGATIONS...
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Re: This analayis or lack thereof
Well aren't you special.
If people disagree with you its because they are ignorant. That must be very comforting.
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Except Tyshaun
She or he gets the KEY point.
As well, she or he writes much more fluently, tactfully, and gracefully than the the other contribtors.
These two things go hand-in-hand.
I highly supsect that Tyshaun took a LARGE does of humanities while in college; boy do I wish I could say the same about the rest of you.
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Re: Except Tyshaun
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Has anyone actually viewed this site, lately..?
Or could it be the link farm they have listings for sale on, built into their front page..?
Just my take..
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What Bored said:
Bored: No, actually, they don't.
Ummm...so having enormous power means not bearing responsiblilty? Well what a beautiful world we'd live in if everyone thought that. Come on. They're a private corp. so they the have no responibility...beautiful.
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Need better ranking in a search engine?
www.xista.com
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google and there right on sstage.
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Google lawsuit
Aggressive, pushy - spamming - slamming - pop up windows, can't close them without hitting "control escape" and the like deserve to suffer and should lose business UNTIL they get it right and play the game of good businesses that offer great products and services at a great price - no matter the price! It is up to them to drive up the "perceived" value as ALL pricing is a perception. If they don't change - they deserve to lose business for they are responsible - not Google or anyone else!
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OMG
IM NOT HIGH : )
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Frankly, it would be no surprise
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Kinderstart.com BLOWS
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I am matt, hear me roar
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I'm gonna sue kinderstart
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This article really ranked up there!
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Re: This article really ranked up there!
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How about DMOZ
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Re: How about DMOZ
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Re: How about DMOZ
It transpires that the editor for where I am endeavouring to submit is friends with the main competition - the incestuous links between their websites gives it away just a bit.
20,000 copied webpages on the comptetitions website provides a bit more salt for the wound.
Reported the abuse, however it now appears that the meta editor know the editor....
Grrrrr
Maybe a small group of people ought to provide an alternative and actually strive for the best directory on the web
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Hmmm...
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Google
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Searchking higher rankings?
That said, I kind of agree with Google overall. Aggressive SEO is rough on the little guys and not what the Internet should be about.
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Searchking was basking in backlinks afterwards
Not directly from google I don't think, but because of the "buzz" he got from the lawsuit, many thousands of sites linked to Searchking, resulting in heavy traffic!
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are you kiding?
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searches
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Not so bad
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sued google
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Amazing stuff
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LOL that is crazy
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Wow!
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Good publicity
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Funny reading
Sometimes it is funny to read these things.
Web Hosting India
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Re: Funny reading
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Quick to sue..
It doesn't look like it will change soon. It is funnt that they tried to sue though..
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new
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This didn't got anywhere
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Be White Hat
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Welcome to USA!
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It'll never work
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I Hope My Site Doesn't Get Removed
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Nice
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Wicked!!
Had my share of un-just google slaps - and this comming from a guy who used their search engine long before they were ever heard of faithfully, and my high ranking sites were wrongly penalized more than once unjustly!
Might have to post a continuance of this topic on my google blog...I feel a slap comming on...LOL
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Good luck to them...they're gona need it!
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list of article directory
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sr
armarios baratos|
Frases de superacion
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Don't Rely on Google
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Playing with Fire!
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that's great..
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sdfasds
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sr
Had my share of un-just google slaps
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My site doesn't have a good rating either. it should by now because its been up for 7 weeks, already got over 7500 usage sessions..
stormai.com Storm TV Canada 1-888-908-7621
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Suing Google
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Google rots
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Don't believe me? Search "Michigan links" and ask if there is any logical reason that the "Militia Links" or "Northport, Michigan: Links" site should have a higher ranking than our Ab Mich site for that query. 6 months ago, we were number one. We have added thousands of more links to REAL web sites and yet our ranking falls.
forfait mobile - forfait sans engagement
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Apple
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wonderful
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wonderful
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site ranking in Google is too hard
Sometimes I wonder why bother or maybe Google would rather you pay for the add-words instead.
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Computerz101
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Great
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Well aren't you special.
If people disagree with you its because they are ignorant. That must be very comforting.
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Google
But its not so special. Black hate SEO not long for longer. Google come to know. And new Panda and Penguin update, put all stop.
how u think?
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re
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topstyle
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WHY?
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Good
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Hmmm..
So, good luck)
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I don't have a lawyer
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Hilarious
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Not sure
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Stunning Idea, Thanks for sharing.
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Nice Post
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Good subject
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keralaresults
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good idea
it's a good idea. but I have a doubt that if it will work. I will check it on my site. Search functions are easy to find but to figure out someone http://organizetechnologies.com/ else's algorithm is quite the feat.thanks for the knowledge.
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Wonderful blog
I read your article thanks for sharing.
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