Plumbers Union Fighting The Big Job Threat: Waterless Urinals!
from the the-march-of-progress dept
Over the years, there have been plenty of stories about different professions getting worried about the forward march of technology, and how it might automate them out of a job. While it is painful for those who are forced to go through a change they may not have been prepared for, historically it's tended to improve society and add many more new (and often better) jobs in response. However, some things never change -- and people complaining about new technology taking them out of a job will always be an issue. The latest case, though, seems a bit over the top in its complaints. WeeBit writes in to let us know that the plumbers union in Philadelphia is protesting a developer's plan to install "116 waterless, no-flush urinals." It seems that those waterless, no-flush urinals might mean less work for the union's plumbers -- and so they're not happy. Apparently, this has become quite the... uh... non-issue in the Philadelphia mayoral election, with the various candidates all being asked their position on the scourge of modern waterless urinals.
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What About New Jobs?
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Re: What About New Jobs?
Unions' only interests are how to serve themselves best and damn anyone else.
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Good for them!
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Re: Good for them!
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Re: Re: What About New Jobs?
Apparently you don't know much about unions. Perhaps you should remain quiet and let us think you're an idiot rather than speaking your mind and confirming it.
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Waterless urine?
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OH PLEASE!!
When you have someone making $95/hr to solder a copper pipe for a sink, it's no wonder the developer wants to use a waterless urinal to lower the number of hours the overpaid plumber has to be there! And don't get me started on the Auto Unions! The world economy woud be better off without unions, but to the overpaid union workers it's a bad idea.
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An anti-unreasonable-union union.
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PSA
It's time to chit or got off the pot. hehehe
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Plumbing unions
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Re: Re: What About New Jobs? by Ed
Ever hear of OSHA??????
And if by livable wages you mean OUTRAGEOUS wages, Sure I'd agree!
As for healthcare, and retirement benefits!! I get those and I'm not in a extortion organization...er..I mean Union!
Unions had a place in the 1920's, but now they are holding back companies from being profitable and competitive in the global market! You clearly don't know much about the impact of Unions if you think they are actually helping anyone!
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Yeah, whens the last time your Piss clogged a pipe? good point.
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I'm a Credit Union member, but I think thats a littel different. Either way, its better than a bank, I get less charges.
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LOL!!!! That's great!
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Re:
Oh man, I could tell you some stories ... whooo boy!
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Re: Re: Re: What About New Jobs?
While there is merit in a collective barganing agreement and concern for a workers well being, Unions are merely legalized extortion rackets.
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I'll assume you're laughing at my ignorance. I really know nothing about business.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: What About New Jobs?
and an xtortion racket is what? Theres my business ignorance again.
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Re: Re: Re: What About New Jobs?
Spoken like a true unionist. I take it your fees are up to date?
Unions are only self-serving and don't give a rip about the public nor the interests of the public or private company they are working for.
I have been in a union before, so yes, I know what I am talking about.
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Re: Re: Re: What About New Jobs?
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OK...
This is irrelevent like peanut better and onions
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Re:
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re:
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Re: OK...
LOL!!! great analysis!
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STUPID
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Re: Jason
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duh
its not that big of a deal
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Another Point
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Am I missing something?
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Re:
That's one of the premises of Anthem by Ayn Rand. It was a reference to extreme communism, when the main character discovers the lightbulb they refuse to use it because it would put the candlemakers out of work. Isn't it sad that this action, as petty as it is, threatens to stifle humanities already slowing down innovation?
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Re: OH PLEASE!!
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Indeed
I put the American Federation of Teachers at the head of that list.
Choice - competition - vouchers.
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Re: Re: Jason
But plumers and unions aside, if running water was a civilization advance, since when has waterless urinals been a good thing?
Oh, and I've seen them. They stink. In silent protest I flushed the other "normal" urinals five times.
Keepin the revolution alive.
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$46 an hour
Cry me a freaking river!
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Re: $46 an hour
You forgot overtime and double time for holidays. Cry me an ocean!
Bmac
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Re:
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Re: $46 an hour
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Re: $46 an hour
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I am a union Plumber / Pipefitter
yes we pay for our own vaction , and dues out of our checks after taxes. I do undersatand what you guys said by thinking we are over paid (and some of them are ) but as we all want to be paid what we are worth.And as far as plumbers not being able engineer systems, I would put almost any union plumber up against a engineer and I will bet the plumbers system will beat the other any day.Most of your engineer never seen a plumbing system, but we all have our places. Now as the union goes it helps, I mean how many of you want to do your job for pennys, We have alot of training we go through we don't just pick up a pipe wrench and say we are plumbers.
Here in michigan we only make about 60 thou a year before taxes and dues . now with all that being said I love technology and hope it bring us all usefull new things
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Who the F cares about a bunch of degenerate plumbe
I hope they all go on welfare.
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Waterless Toilet
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Wasting Water in Chicago
I think that saving 1.6 million of this would be a great start, even if it's only a drop in the bucket (proverbially speaking).
If a few more buildings did this, we could actually be looking at some *real* environmental awareness and not having to build aqueducts from the Great Lakes to water the desert.
Continuing rant... Think of how much Las Vegas wastes in water, being in the desert. The Colorado river is drying up, so why are we not looking for more "waterless" urinals and other such ways to conserve water.
For those curious as to how this urinal works:
http://www.waterless.com/ecotrap.php
Down with *useless* Unions! There are *good* unions...
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The reason unions are lame...
They are lame because they force people to choose from their own ranks when you need to get a job done. You can organize and do whatever you want, but stopping someone ,who doesn't want to opt into your group, from working on my project is not fair. And getting laws passed to protect your turf from labor competition is really friggin lame. You are basically just predatory gangs at that point.
If there is a value in your standards enforcement and other services, then the market will recognize that with higher fees to your members. You don't need laws and arm-twisting to get it.
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Re: OH PLEASE!!
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Re: Wasting Water in Chicago
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Re: Re: OH PLEASE!!
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Re:
But let's take the tone down a bit, boys, this is quickly becoming a stupid, polarized debate that nobody can win.
Everybody thinks everyone else's job is easy.. Because at the surface, it is. It's the in depth analysis born of experience that you're being paid for. I work in software.. Yep, my job is "easy" the majority of the time. But when a snag comes, it's my experience and analytical ability that turns "I dunno, we better escalate this to someone else" to "here's what we can do".
If you can do it yourself, do it yourself! I can fix my own sink. I can install a new toilet. I can build my own furniture. I can fix simple things in my own car. Ya know what? If you've actually done any of these things you will have gained a great deal of respect for people who do it for a living and do it well.
Hey software boys, ever built a deck? That lasted 30 years?
Hey plumbers, ever debugged a distributed application in a production environment?
Hey teachers, ever troubleshooted an ailing aquarium?
The amounts of knowledge and skill to do anything well are tremendous. The only reason people whine about what others do is because they haven't done it themselves.
Regardless, unions have served their purpose and are starting to cause damage. Protection of workers' rights and insisting on fair wages was and is one thing. The bureaucratic bullshit and political nonsense that comes along with modern unions isn't helping anyone.
Do we need more anecdotes? How about the union shop where a supervisor asks a worker to do something, the worker retorts with a string of vulgarities and insults and then walks off the job for an hour.
Ya know what? Thanks to the collective bargaining agreement made, that chump can't be fired. He does that every day. He's untouchable.
We had a good idea but it's been perverted by selfishness.
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Unions aren't always useful
As an example, when I was 19 I worked for a company that had several unions. The one I workered for had renegotiated it's contract (although I was uanaware of the process until the new contract was given to us). About the only thing people got out of the deal was a fairly nice pay raise, although most people were pretty happy about that.
At least they were happy until I looked at the copy of my material and pointed out that the two years the pay raise were spread over also coincided with the two year phase in of the raising of the minimum wage. And did anyone bother to notice that when all was said and done, everyone was ten cents closer to minimum wage (a rather important detail when you're only making 30-50 cents over minimum wage to start)?
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$95.00 per hour? LOL
That really isn't that much money. If you make less.... Im very sorry for you. Maybe you need to go back to school and stop crying about someone else making more money. If your that surprised that a plumber makes $55-95 per hour....rather than bemoaning about it. BECOME A PLUMBER..ITS EASY WORK!!!
No? Keep your clerk job at 35K per year? I thought so. This is stupid, and pointless. How did a waterless urinal become an attack on someones wages. Do you all make minimum wage or something?! Christ. I had no idea that welfare "folk" were so technology savy to read these posts! Jesus, I live in West Virginia..... and seem to earn more that you lot! Thats really funny to me.
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Also:
Maybe you should join a union, and make some money?
Hehe
If barefoot people in West Virginia can earn a fair salary, whats your excuse!?
If you don't agree that everyone is worth at least $60,000.00 per year, you just don't get it do you?
Do you look down upon plumbers that make more money than you, and say it's unfair? Their job can't be as difficult, and stressful as yours? Ask your boss why you don't make as much as a plumber. Better yet, ask yourself that same question!
Hint:
You accept the wages you are paid. Don't work for less than you think you are worth! Demand the respect, and "paycheck" you are justified to receive. If you don't think YOU are worth 60K or better....at your job (realistically) than:
CHANGE YOUR CARREER! GO BACK TO SCHOOL, or just plain SHUT THE HELL UP!!! Crying about how little you are paid by feigning shock at another person salary! That's pathetic.
Anyway; the urinals stay. The Unions stay, and unless you get the point here. You stay too.
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GET OVER IT
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MMMM
there are a few things wrong with the story.
1) how do warterless urinals stop plumbers jobs?
because they dont use water does not mean that they do not have to be hooked up to the sewer system, where else would it go to. to do this you still need a plumber
2) look at the date.
i have definatly have to give it to the person that came up with this one, genius, it really got you distracted from common sence.
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Re: Also:
Everyone, reality check, over half the us population makes less than $35,000/year, so I think the above statement is naive at least and pretty darn arrogant at best.
Take a look:
http://www.bls.gov/cew/state2002.txt
I think there's a lot of talking out of butt disease going on in this thread. I love the folks who say "well plumbers can just get another job" or "technology doesn't eliminates jobs, in fact it creates them". These two statements are very misleading. Yes, there are a lots of jobs out there, but what is the "level" of the job. Seems to me there are a whole lot of jobs where being able to say "do you want fries with that" is a prerequisite and seemingly less and less opportunities for those without a college degree. Used to be that a person coming out of high school could expect to make a decent living as a skilled laborer or in a manufacturing environment, those days are quickly going away.
I hate to say it but most people appear to be "underemployed" nowadays. I know people with college degrees that are working in service sector jobs. So yes, the assertion that jobs don't really go away, they evolve is basically true, the problem is the parity of income isn't the same (in other words you can't really replace a decent union auto workers wage with that of a service worker like a restaurant worker or cleaning person).
As a computer programmer I am all for the explosion of technology laden devices and the increased dependency on the PC. However, as a first generation college grad in my family I know how hard it is for the people in my family to get a decent job that pays a fair wage without a degree. Let's face it, not everyone is college material, and we have to ensure that those people can make a living wage as well, since over half of the population barely makes what the government considers a "living wage" ($30,000/yr before taxes)
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Re:
I am a computer technician, 14 years experience. Yes, I CAN debug a router. (if by debug you mean take an improperly configured one and set it up properly).
I can and did in the last rental place I lived in, because it was the agreement that I remodel it, and get free rent for a year: Wire whole house from breaker panel to outlets and switches (oh, don't forget the attic fan with three-speed control, plus the numerous three-way and four-way switches); Run plumbing from main shut off valve to each sink, toilet, shower, outside spigot, garage for the mop sink; Installed all duct work for furnace, as well as the funace itself; Ran gas line for the stove; Installed insulation throughout; Installed all windows & doors; Installed lap siding on outside of house and two car garage/workshop; New insulation throughout, finished off with drywall.
And yes, I do have not only my CCNA, A+, Net+, and MSDST, but also an electrical and a plumbing license.
Now, Try and say that I could not do those things. If I can do it, I'm sure others can.
And about brain surgery: I'd tackle that the same way that I do everything else; Let me have a try at it, and I can do it. How about you first?
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Re: Re: $46 an hour
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Re:
Sorry buddy, but that's the way it works. The "pissants" that apply themselves go to school for years to learn their trade, and should be compensated accordingly. Plumbers that I know have never gone to school, and learned all they know by on the job training.
"You people could no sooner do plumbing or hvac work than I could preform brain surgery"
You're over inflating the difficulty of your job. I *have* done my own plumbing, and I understood the concepts behind the work (flush toilet, water go down). I *did* learn it in an evening from reading a book. I'd like to see *you* learn to network an entire office building in one evening, and understand all the underlying technologies. I'd like to see *you* learn to build a business critical website with a database back end and understand how it works.
We both get paid based on our abilities, demand, and the amount of effort it takes to learn those abilities. The fact that you make 5 figures, and you think IT guys make 6, is proof that society recognizes that learning an IT trade is more difficult than learning a construction trade.
I have no problems with your trade, and society would probably come to a halt if you all quit. I'm only addressing your skewed view of reality.
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How the F|_|ck do these work?
Where the hell does the urine go? If it goes down a PIPE then there is no reason for plumbers to be angry.
Maybe it's more like a cat-litterbox type thing?
This is a really retarded article, BTW, Techdirt. You're slacking bigtime lately. Next we'll be posting about why Americans refuse to use "bidets [sp?]" instead of our time held tradition of wiping with paper. WTF?
"The world is my Urinal"
--Professor HighBrow
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http://www.waterless.com/ecotrap.php
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Re: Re: Re: What About New Jobs?
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Re:
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Re: Re: Re:
I can't speak for the person in question, but I can easily see where a plumber could be worth that.
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Actually, they *DO* stink
250 business days a year, 160 flush replacements a day, 10 hour day, that's one flush every 3.75 minutes.
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$60K per year?
Could our economy really support such a figure? And if so, what happens to the value of money?
Having recently moved to the southwest suburbs of Chicago from north Texas, I've experienced a major increase in the cost of living. In some areas, you can hardly enter the real estate market for less than $300,000 (and don't forget the hefty real estate tax bill AND the transfer taxes), which could buy you a veritable mansion in Texas. Our local Jewel (just your average grocery store) charges $3.99/gallon for milk and $5.49/lb for butter. A jar of spaghetti sauce we used to pay $1.89 for in TX costs $3.49 here. And, of course, gas jumps at least $.20/gallon once you cross from Missouri to Illinois.
Now, aside from the rampant corruption here that surely costs this state a lot of money, I can't help but notice that typically lower paying jobs, most of which are union controlled, pay a great deal more here than in Texas. But, presumably because of the cost of living, my blue collar friends here (or white collar, for that matter) don't appear to have a better standard of living than my friends from elsewhere.
In other words, if Subway has to pay the guy who makes your sandwich $60,000/year, do you really think you're going to get away with a $2.99 special?
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Re: Anti-union union member
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Whining about waterless urinals
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Some of you are clueless
I am offeneded, though, by the general disregard in which many of you hold plumbers. I am a CPA, a CCIE, an MCSE, and an A+. I have also plumbed the bathroom in my house. The skills required to accomplish the plumbing (measuring, cutting and threading pipe, and following the plumbing codes) require as much or more knowledge than is required to support most medium-sized LANs or preparing most corporation income tax returns.
If you stop and think about it -- plumbing brings clean, safe water to the tap...... and removes absolute filth from our homes. We depend on the competence of plumbers for not only sanitary reasons, but to put together a system that does not leak increasingly expenseive dyhydrogen oxide
Frankly, given a choice of no plumbers in the world or no network/system admins/techs/engineers in the world, I would rather do withut computing and networking.
I am not certain whether the denigration of plumbers is due to cluelessness or due to snobbishness by some of us techie types. Perhaps its due to both. In any event, it serves neither profession's --plumbers or techies -- best interest. Just becaiuse a profession does not require a working knowledge of binary arithmetic or IEEE 802.3 does not mean that it does not call upon a comprehensive body of knowledge.
Finally, they can offshore a lot of what us techies do, but there is no way they can repair American plumbing from Bangalore.
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And thus it hath endeth
Amen, Ivory Bill.
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Re: Re: Also:
On the flip side though, you're partly right. Sure, a lot make less than 35k a year. Most people don't go on to college from HS, and some dont bother to finish HS. Poor choices. To defend them and say that they DIDNT make stupid career choices is acting like a lousy politician, pandering to the ignorant masses. In fact, there's a REASON they're called 'ignorant masses'. ;)
Excluding those who genuinely get more pleasure from a particular feild and pick it based on that instead of money, which exclude about five people total on Earth, and those working TOWARDS making that level of income, they simply did make poor, or stupid, career choices. Bottom line.
In about a year I'll be the first in my family to graduate college like you, but I've seen too many people you'd assume weren't 'college material' work their freakin ass off to make it happen -- two full time jobs, etc, while I skate through on scholarship and a part time job. People generally are what they want to be, and slightly off topic, I think we baby people way too much. Yes, they made poor career choices, bottom line.
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WATERFREE IS GREAT WAY TO GO
Back to the water savings, each urinal saves approx 4,000 gallons of water a month or 40,000 gallons a year. There are supposed to be 116 urinals installed in the Comcast building , that's a possible water savings and treatment savings of over 4 million gallons of water a year! That's significant! Maybe those who are worried about losing their jobs should be more worried about their taxes going up when the urinals aren't installed, and they have to pay for the processing of the water/waste!
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GM & Ford down because of unions.
At one point, they even got the government to limit Japanese imports, and they made windfall profits, for a time. They took those unearned profits and wasted them instead of learning to compete. The Japanese still kicked their ass, even though they no longer had a big price advantage.
The Big Three produces (comparatively speaking) crap. Here's how bad it is: Toyota and GM built the same car in the same California factory with the same people, each with their own nameplates - Chevy Nova and Toyota Corolla - and nobody wanted the Nova. Same car, and everyone knew it!
Hyundai came into this country with horrible products; but they learned fast. Now they are highly rated for quality - and give a 10 year guarantee. Many are built here in the USA with American workers.
American workers build top quality Toyotas in America, so the workers are not to blame for quality issues.
Management runs companies.
By the way, I've never been in a union, and never will be. I've either been in management or had businesses of my own.
The Big Three never had respect for their customers. Their mind-set still is, and has always been "Americans will buy anything - screw'em". Well, they were, and are still, mistaken. I'm supposed to care about them?
It is a damn shame - and dangerous for the country - what's happening to manufacturing here in the USA.
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Re: $60K per year?
Of course the moron who cant get his head out of his ass at the Subway is NOT going to earn $60,000.00 per year.
HE SHOULD! Maybe, he COULD. BUT he won't. Why? Because he is not willing to apply himself for a descent wage. University is beyond him, and so is the task without it. He is LAZY, and deserves to be paid a pathetic salary. Mean? Yes, it is. But it is also true (even if it applies to you and you want to argue the fact).
The TRUTH is this also:
There is NO shortage of "jobs" (I would choose CARREER) for the qualified (truely qualified/hard working/inteligent/graduates). If you know someone who graduated Magna Cum Laude at MIT working at McDonalds (you LIE)
If your the best, you have plenty of opportunity. The rest of the population...well...earn what you can.
If feel that ANYONE who TRUELY applies himself can succeed at a 60K salary. That is NOT very high a wage! I am aware the the average household income is staggeringly low. What does that mean to you?
Does it mean that the salary is not there? Of course not. It means that the majority don't try hard enough. Graduate school? YES!
If you make less, does the company owe you more? Why? You didn't work hard enough to earn it! You work in a cubical! You count rolls or quarters! You make fries! Learn to program a computer. Learn to be a plumber. Learn to be a advertising agent. Something!!!!
Work at McDonalds all your life and see where you get. Shuffle sheets of paper, and see how often you go on a good vacation!
Don't whine to me. I worked hard and earned my place. If you didn't, that thats your fault. Whine: but I cant afford tuition. I did! I worked my way thru school! Whine: But I can't find a descent job. Wow, you looked really hard (while staying in your economically depressed state) and couldn't find ANYTHING? Boo-hoo!
Get off your ass, or starve. Its all up to you. THAT is the point. There is nothing wrong with the economy for those that put forth the effort. PERIOD!
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Re: OH PLEASE!!
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Re: Re: What About New Jobs?
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Re: Plumbing unions
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Re: Re: Re: Re: What About New Jobs?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: What About New Jobs?
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Re: Re: Jason
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Re: Who the F cares about a bunch of degenerate pl
go get in line
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Re: WATERFREE IS GREAT WAY TO GO
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Re: WATERFREE IS GREAT WAY TO GO by Anonymous Cowa
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Re: Re: Also:
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cartridges
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Re: Some of you are clueless
I saw that you're a CPA and a CCIE!
That's an awesome feat, and a hell of a lot of studying you must have done to attain those certs.
I was thinking of taking the same career track.
The one thing that is got me stuck in a funk is that I am 36 yrs. old.
Am I too old to pursue such an astounding career track, in your opinion?
Right now I'm attending DeVry Univ online and a year away from finishing my Bachelors in Technical Mgmt.
My background is telecommunications and electronics.
I've worked for the state wide utility company here in Arizona and at AT&T in Seattle.
I am also a 7 year Navy veteran, which is where I got my technical start.
I would be more than appreciative if you'd share your thoughts.
Thank you,
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Googlewhack
Did you know you're a googlewhack?
Your site, and your site alone, comes up when the words "flushometer" and "dipshits" are typed into google.com.
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Re: Googlewhack
It must make you feel good to insult people. I don't know your background or who you are, but I do not own or belong to any website anywhere.
Could you help me understand what is meant by your last entry. I am only trying to find some information and have descent and intelligent discussions here on this blog.
If you don't like me for some reason, I'd like to know what I did so I can make peace and ammends with you. I apologize for any misunderstandings.
Sincerely,
Mike Schultz
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it the flush valve repair that unions want to prot
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Re: OH PLEASE!!
in ny why are the contractors only allowed to make a decent living when us the tradespeople are the ones doing all the work you must sit behind a desk or something like that
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waterless urnals
These waterless urnals are still going to need to be put in by plumber's Union or not.
The problem with them is that the urnals have oil filled traps to allow the urine to flow by, while the oil still seals the trap. Without the water to flush the urine down the drain, it trickles and causes urine crystals to build-up in the pipes.(plastic) The cast-iron pipes corrode, kinda like pouring pop down the cast-iron pipes. You still have to change the cartriges out.
I've installed them on jobs and I've replaced them, with the standard flush-valve urnals.
So either way there is still work for plumber's.
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Re: Re: Re: What About New Jobs?
Imagine a plumbers apprentice making more than a MD (with no PhD mind you). They are a joke; they are egregious, over paid and under worked. The corruption has gone on long enough.
Look at the states with highest taxes and you will see that “prevailing wage” and “legacy costs” have sent many municipalities into severe deficits. Why? Because the unions have great lobbying power, and any politician running for office looks to the unions for voter strength.
It’s a setup, it’s a shakedown.
Saving fresh water is a lot more important to the planet than saving a an overpriced underskilled plumber.
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(first, i am a union plumber) Who use to be an engineer, who got tired of the everyday buisness owner thinking he knew every answer to every mech.system.
Anyway, the point these plumbers were making, was that these waterless urinals are unsanitary.
I have put several in, and know this to be a fact.
I still push for these units, because they save water.
However, piss needs to be diluted.
If you took one of these urinals off the wall and looked at the outlet, it would look like somebody poured salt in it.
(piss salt) we call it.
This "salt" needs washed down the sewer at 1/4 inch per foot to carry any contaminates out of the building.
If there is no water, the piss stays put, and can plain mess a plumbing system up.
If the building has a sewer leak, it reaks like fresh piss, and is very,very strong.
I dought its because the union plumber needs more work, its because he is using his honest judgement on these urinals.
Believe me, they are gross. But damb it they save alot of water! which is our job!!
Of course that water is filling the swiming pools across america, you know, the ones that get swam in about 6 times the whole summer before they get dumped out.
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Re: Re: What About New Jobs?
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If you dont have a plumbing credentials, hopw do you know this all the big bad union causing you trouble? You dont . Youre just going by an emotional feeling you have.
PLumbers know how these traps work - or fail to work. If a building janitor forgets to refill the magic blue liquid that fills the trap, or if the company that akes the magc liquid raises the price to the cost of computer printer ink there will be a trap of open urine stinking up the building, and that's a serious health risk.
You know who is really causing the shakedown? Thecompany that manufactures the verry Special Exclusive Magic BLue Liquid that is the Only Thing that keeps these urinals from becoming an open sewer ala Calcutta, Bombay, etc
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Re: Also:
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Time to end SPECIALIZATION!!
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Re: $46 an hour
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Re: OH PLEASE!!
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Re:
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Grrrrrrrrr.
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local 98 B.A.'s suck the best!
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UNIONS NEW JERSEY/PHILLY AREA
OWNER OR HAVE 20 PLUS YEARS IN YOU DON'T WORK.YET THE GENERAL PRESIDENT WILLIAM P. HITE DOES NOTHING THANK YOU SO CALLED BROTHER.I THANK YOU BROTHER FOR BRING US UNIMPORTANT BROTHERS/SISTER NO HOPE.I JUST WANT TO BE A EQUAL MEMBER OF A UNION
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Re: $46 an hour
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Waterless toilet reply
Waterless toilets need to be designed first not adapted to contemporary and existing buildings, much like the latest cars...they are not using chassis/wheels from 1945....actually they are rapidly moving apart considering the massive amount of R&D into electric vehicles . This will only happen when water really does become scarce to ever growing populations & then the cost of upgrading/converting will possibly be worse than a water shortage. As the 3rd worlds population and infrastructures indirectly by either product prices or "Carbon Credits, World Bank" will be financed by you/me and anybody earning a salary the best is to start with these countries as eventually "Any debt" in a developing or struggling nation become "your backyard debt"
Its all to do with short term economics, in the long run the Chinese see this, they have many waterless or similar toilets dotted around and will be in a better position for the future (nothing is easy when tried the first time, if it was we would all be living in Hollywood sipping champaign)
Brendon................
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Response to: billy on Mar 31st, 2006 @ 2:37pm
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Re: $95.00 per hour? LOL
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Re: OH PLEASE!!
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