Man Says GTA Made Him Think He Could Outrun Cops

The $104 Billion Refund

DEA Agent Who Shoots Himself In The Foot Blames Gov't For His Problems

from the perhaps-he-shouldn't-have-shot-himself-in-the-foot dept

Fri, Apr 14th 2006 5:02pm — Mike Masnick

About a year ago, one of the more amusing "viral" videos that got passed around like crazy was the one of the DEA agent giving a bunch of children a lecture about the danger of guns. Just as he says he's the only one in the room professional enough to be able to handle a Glock, he shoots himself in the foot. To be honest, when I saw it originally, I thought he actually handled the situation fairly well, given the fact that he had just shot himself in the foot. He uses it as an example of how accidents can happen with guns -- without noting that pointing a gun at his foot and pulling the trigger without actually checking to see if it was loaded probably isn't the smartest thing to do. However, it turns out now that the DEA agent in question is suing the US government for the release of the tape online -- claiming that it's crippled his career and subjected himself to a tremendous amount of harassment. Indeed, it's not surprising at all that such notoriety might make it tough for him to go on undercover assignments or find additional work as a motivational speaker. However, to blame the government for the release of the video online, without noting that he was the one who, you know, did the actual shooting himself in the foot, seems to be stretching things a bit. It's not the release of the video that's his problem... it was the shooting of the foot.

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dorpus, 14 Apr 2006 @ 5:25pm

Difference in mentality
Mike comes from an industry where people are eager to kick those who are down, where everyone is an enemy by default. In more normal human settings, organizations do defend the reputations of their own members. Would we want a divided police force where all actions are politicized, and every cop is eager to say bad things about other cops? Law enforcement could not function that way. Would you want to go to a hospital where doctors, nurses are all telling you that their co-workers are killers? No, such organizations have a moral obligation to uphold public trust, along with internal accountability to prevent bad apples from spoiling the barrell.
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John, 14 Apr 2006 @ 5:47pm

Re: Difference in mentality
Dorpus,

Let me get this straight... you think we'd be better off if the DEA covered up for this guy and *hid* the fact that he shot himself?

That's a recipe for promoting incompetence.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Apr 2006 @ 6:43pm

that video is hillarious.... the lawsuit has no relevence.. its good they released it.. so now we know dont believe what people in the government tell you.. he said he was the only one that should be handling that glock.. hahahahahaha
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Boink, 14 Apr 2006 @ 6:44pm

WOW!!
That first commentor must be an Federal employee!!! Only someone who is themselves incompetent would say such a thing!! I kinda feel bad for the guy, as I have done some stupid things in front of alot of people before, but SHIT!! I have never shot myself!!!!!!! The guy should have at least been disiplined.
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Bogamol, 14 Apr 2006 @ 7:06pm

I'm sure the guy was disciplined. I bet he was laughed at at work. I bet he takes a lot of crap from his coworkers. This should be an internal matter however. His employer should not have released the tape. If it were to be released, it should have been by a 3rd party

I'm not a govt agent.
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Catherine, 14 Apr 2006 @ 7:24pm

Re: Re: Difference in mentality
I don't think so. I believe that "they" do.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Apr 2006 @ 7:27pm

Whatever happened to just laughing "it" off... heck, he made a mistake and it was caught on tape. If he wants this whole thing to blow-over and not become more of a burden on his career (see Streisand-Effect), he shouldn't loose too much sleep on this misfortune and just laugh it off... over a few beers or however men do it.

geeze buddy, put on some Big-Boy Pants and get over it.
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Tyshaun, 14 Apr 2006 @ 7:29pm

Im not a government guy either...
I have to agree with the first commentor. There is a professional way to handle employee issues, and releasing a tape like this to the general population isn't it. I don't know what kind of work environment exists in TechDirt, but most people work in places where they can expect a certain amount of discretion from their employees. Yes, it was very funny that it happened to the agent, but it is hardly a cover up if the tape isn't released (no one hurt but him) AND there are several laws covering non-disclosure of work related injuries to parties not directly involved in the incident.

So no Mike, the problem isn't that he shot himself in the foot, workplace accidents happen every day (hence the reason OSHA still exists), the problem is that the DEA didn't deal with an internal work related incident properly, and they should be forced to pay punitive damages to this guy.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Apr 2006 @ 7:32pm

Re:
Is this incident the 1st to clue you in on not believing what people in our government tell us? I imagine we should be thankkul that he pointed it at his foot and not the at the camera (or cameraman!)
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jdw242, 14 Apr 2006 @ 7:44pm

Re: Difference in mentality
we have a politicized police force already. everyone is guilty until proven innocent.

You go research why that is a problem for me...
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MSD, 14 Apr 2006 @ 7:52pm

I have a Glock
23C (the compenstaed version of his) and I'm just a civilian and even I know to clear a gun. I got stopped @ a DUI check point and the cop gave me back my gun w/out clearing it. It amazes me the stupidity of the law enforcers.
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Angry Rivethead, 14 Apr 2006 @ 8:09pm

It was JUST that stupid!
Yes realeasing tapes of mistakes isn't the most professional thing to do. HOWEVER, a mistake THAT stupid needs to be released.

A.) There is no such thing as a "Glock 40" that he was so proud to tell everyone about. It was probably a Glock 22 in 40 S&W. That A-hole doesn't even know WHAT kind of weapon he's carrying.

B.) NO ONE with ANY firearms expiriance would EVER do something THAT retarded. You ALWAYS CLEAR your weapon and NEVER under ANY circumstances poit it at ANYTHING you DO NOT wish to DESTROY. ESPECIALLY while pulling the trigger. The first thing anyone will tell you is that its the unloaded guns that you shoot yourself with.

C.) The police are at the butt end of everyones jokes to begin with for firearms handling. Instance: North Hollywood Shoot out...50+ police on the scene, over 2000rds of ammo expended, and not a SINGLE officer could make a headshot at near point-blank range. I was capable of this at maybe 7 or 8 years old...okay 9. Doug Koenig(IPSC Champ) they are not.

D.) Ruined his carreer!? After that manuever, he should NEVER work in field law inforcement again. Maybe he should get a nice job handing me my change at Taco Bell. The guy's grammar is so horrible, he shouldn't have been speaking in front of a class in the first place with his ghetto/mtv dialect.

Its nice to see that my tax money is going to pay degenerates to protect me from other people that are more than likely, less of a degenerate.
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Sean, 14 Apr 2006 @ 9:05pm

Re: It was JUST that stupid!
"a mistake THAT stupid needs to be released."

It doesn't "need" to be released. That's simply your opinion.

"There is no such thing as a "Glock 40" that he was so proud to tell everyone"

He was talking to kids, which often means explaining things Barney style.

"NO ONE with ANY firearms expiriance would EVER do something THAT retarded"

NO ONE with ANY firearms experience would EVER say that accidents like this DON'T happen to trained professionals. THAT is retarded.

"The police are at the butt end of everyones jokes to begin with for firearms handling. Instance"

So because a group of people are generally the butt of other people's jokes, it's okay to continue making jokes? Does that actually make sense to you?

"Ruined his carreer!? After that manuever, he should NEVER work in field law inforcement again."

Man you're clueless. Refer back to the statements about how accidents can happen to anyone, even trained professionals.

After 4 years in the Marine Corps, I've seen people with incredible weapons handling skills have negligent discharges. It happens to the best of people.
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JAFO, 14 Apr 2006 @ 9:14pm

You got to be @#$@# kidding me...
We wonder why the national debt is so high, and why we have so many "issues". I am in agreement that this gentleman should be either kicked out of law enforcement, or he should be handing out parking tickets. But I also think that the people that put this man in this place should also be checked, for sending an unqualified person to teach gun safety to children.
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DEA retired, 14 Apr 2006 @ 9:27pm

RELEASING this tape was a public service
And it was leaked by DEA professionals who resent having to trust their lives to incompetant coworkers who were hired to meet 'diversity' quotas rather than having the right qualifications. This agent is clearly not up to DEA standards, but his race got him the job and put him in the position to make this error. Luckily it was only him who suffered in this case.

This video is not just a warning about the consequences of unsafe firearms handling. it is a warning about the consequences of Affirmative Action.
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DEA retired, 14 Apr 2006 @ 9:27pm

RELEASING this tape was a public service
And it was leaked by DEA professionals who resent having to trust their lives to incompetant coworkers who were hired to meet 'diversity' quotas rather than having the right qualifications. This agent is clearly not up to DEA standards, but his race got him the job and put him in the position to make this error. Luckily it was only him who suffered in this case.

This video is not just a warning about the consequences of unsafe firearms handling. it is a warning about the consequences of Affirmative Action.
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Tyshaun, 14 Apr 2006 @ 9:59pm

Re: RELEASING this tape was a public service
And it was leaked by DEA professionals who resent having to trust their lives to incompetant coworkers who were hired to meet 'diversity' quotas rather than having the right qualifications. This agent is clearly not up to DEA standards, but his race got him the job and put him in the position to make this error. Luckily it was only him who suffered in this case. This video is not just a warning about the consequences of unsafe firearms handling. it is a warning about the consequences of Affirmative Action.

So basically only white men are actually "qualified" to be DEA agents? With a statement like that, and your claim to be a former DEA agent, I'd have to wonder how qualified you are for the job.

As a final note. When I worked as a paramedic, we learned that every year thousands of healthcare workers (doctors, nurses, etc) stick themselves accidentally with needles and expose themselves to contagious diseases. Doesn't mean they are less competant as a healthcare worker, just that they are human and made a mistake. They are trained for years how to safely handle needles, it only takes one lapse in concentration.

If all of you asserting that this guys mistake is unforgivable, then why isn't our Vice President in jail right now? Mistakes happen people, they shouldn't be advertised by your employer.
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Jason, 14 Apr 2006 @ 10:14pm

How is this different from the star wars kid?
One guys shoots himself in the foot, the other is just a fay kid who nearly spins around and falls over trying to do some moves... they both are suing those who released the videos... granted the officer is a trained professional, but if the star wars kid got some money, so should this guy.
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Artemis Vindictus, 14 Apr 2006 @ 10:19pm

only of AA = Alcoholics Anonymous.
I was gleefully enjoying this whole thread until Rush Linbaugh (AKA DEA retired) decided to weigh in. Now that's a pretty stupid **s comment. You just had to make this into some anti Affirmative Action platform, didn't you? I'm sure there's plenty more white folks making the darwin list (just not on camera) - if you know what I mean. The fact that this officer was black, may also have something to do with the fact that the he was giving the talk at an inner city school. Something I never see any white law enforcement officers doing.... My father was a black law enforcement officer for over 30 years. Even the most red-necked racist co-workers of his would stick a night-stick up your ass if you even hinted that he was there for any reason than being one of the best cops to ever grace the city.

But back to the original thread. How many times does this accident have to happen to highlight incompetence? This was pretty bad, and I'm not losing Any sleep that this guy now has a bad reputation. There should be no second chances for some accidents. Accidentally shooting yourself (or someone else) in a classroom full of grade school children and their parents - is one of them.
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John Barker, 14 Apr 2006 @ 11:07pm

Mistakes
Yes everyone makes mistakes and is careless at times, but when you are handling firearms you can't afford to make mistakes and be careless or people die. I am glad he shot himself on not some kid who was there.

When you are doing something where mistakes can kill someone else there is no room for error.
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mark, 15 Apr 2006 @ 12:28am

oh, please
This guy is suing? I have yet to see anything to indicate anyone official released the video. For all we know it was one of the kids' parents home video. Besides, ol' lefty still has plausible deniability- "You can't believe everything you see on the web"
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?, 15 Apr 2006 @ 1:39am

Re: Re: It was JUST that stupid!
No such thing as a Glock 40?

You had better tell Glock, as it would appear that they didn't get the memo:

http://www.glock.com/40.htm

First rule I learnd when using a gun when my pa taught me to shoot: don't point the gun at anything that you don't want to shoot. Loaded or not.

Don't know if the feds have adopted the rule, but now would be a good time.
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Les, 15 Apr 2006 @ 3:06am

DEA guy shooting himself
When I saw this video, I saw it as a classic show of someone so full of himself that he forgot to take the clip out of his gun and clear the chamber, he was just a little to full of his ego, thats what seems to have got him in trouble, and the next dumbest thing he did was when he wanted another firearm to display, he should just accept that video release as his punishment for being so stupid, and to think he was trained, who trained him? hahaha.
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Douglas Edward Adam, 15 Apr 2006 @ 4:53am

Re: Difference in mentality
so this trained proffesional brings a loaded weapon in to a schoolroom full of children and then discharges it ?

My understanding is that you are to visual check your weapon in order to verfiy that it is not ready to discharge. That should of been done before he drew his
weapon.

If my child had been in that class I would be sueing the moron.

Of course this guy is why we should worry about the cops.
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PopeRatzo, 15 Apr 2006 @ 4:55am

I think it was a Glock 22 but he'd been drinking a "40". Maybe he just got them mixed up.

Lord Jeebus, that was the funniest thing I've seen this morning.

When he mentions 50 Cent and Too Short, you just know something bad's about to happen.
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PopeRatzo, 15 Apr 2006 @ 4:58am

Re: Re: Difference in mentality
"If my children had been in the room I'd have sued the moron".

You are as stupid as the guy who shot himself.

If I'd been in the room with my child, I'd have thanked God that nobody was seriously hurt and gone on with my life. People who are always thinking "lawsuit" disgust me.
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useful commenter, 15 Apr 2006 @ 5:35am

RE: It was just that stupid
Hey Rivethead those bunny's and tree rats you were scoring headshots on a 7,8, OK maybe 9 weren't shooting at you with high capacity automatic weapons.

Just because daddy bought you a 22 and you have a subscription to guns an ammo doesn't qualify you to judge the men and women who physically put themselves between those criminals and your stupid hind end
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Anonymous, 15 Apr 2006 @ 5:56am

Re: Re: RELEASING this tape was a public service
If all of you asserting that this guys mistake is unforgivable, then why isn't our Vice President in jail right now?
Let's see... maybe because our Vice President thinks that he's above the law? That silly little things like laws and the consititution are things he and President Junior can safely ignore because the American public will take it up the ass time and again? That there is a Republican Majority in the House and the Senate and an effective Right Wing Scheme Machine in the form of conservative talk shows and Fox News that will play down any and every criminal act time and time again, as long as the person doing the crime is Republican? ("Damn you, Clinton, for getting a blow job... Feel free to shoot again, Cheney!")
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Angry Rivethead, 15 Apr 2006 @ 6:14am

Re: RE: It was just that stupid
"High Capacity Automatic Weapon" Glocks are SEMI automatic, which in that case, I was VERY familiar with at that age. Though I'd never touch a DAO(Double Action Only) like a Glock. Glocks are designed from the getgo to be the Macitosh of firearms i.e. built so an idiot can operate one. They're designed for people that don't know how to use firearms. Anyone that takes thier pistocraft seriously will use an SAO, like a 1911 derivitive. You won'
t see very many Glocks being competed with.

As for high cpacity, its not belt fed. All large magazines do is cause users with poor discepline and skill to consume more ammunition than nessesary. The original 1911A1 included a 7rd mag. Given that most altercations last 7 seconds or less, I'd say this is adequate.

40's as for compring to 22's I never owned a 40 at that age. It wasn't invented yet. The 40, again was invented for people that suck. Its a shortened version of a 10mm auto that the police complained kicked too much. OF which i could handle QUITE well at 9. Daddy bought me A Delta Elite. If it were a 9mm, I'd say it may as well be a 22, you're more likely to cause more damage to your adversary by hurling your weapon at them.

As for my background, I've done part time law enforcement along with serving 9 years Army Infantry...on top of my subscription to G&A. Stop sticking up for hoodrats in uniform. Theres nothing more sickening to see law enforcement officers exchange gang signs with gang members, which I see ALL too often. It bothers me that that DEA agent even KNOWS who "50 Cent" is. Our Law enforcement officers should be ABOVE that trash.
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JIm, 15 Apr 2006 @ 6:32am

Re: WOW!!
And you my friend need to by a dictionary.
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Chris, 15 Apr 2006 @ 6:40am

the bigger issue
i dont know, i am not so worried about the guy shooting himself in the foot....thats his own problem.... i am more worried about the fact that he had a loaded gun, without a safety on near KIDS!!!! who cares about the guys foot. what would you be saying if one of the kids got hit in the face with that bullett instead?? who in their right mind even brings a LOADED GUN to a GUN SAFETY class for KIDS?!?!?!

this just proves that the governement doesnt really care about our kids futures
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Apr 2006 @ 6:42am

"No such thing as a Glock 40?

You had better tell Glock, as it would appear that they didn't get the memo:

http://www.glock.com/40.htm "

? - you're a jackass, their site is sorted by caliber, did you not notice the MODELS listed on the .40 page? Dipshit...
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Jimmy Bear Pearson, 15 Apr 2006 @ 6:50am

What's even more interesting...
What I find even more interesting (from watching the video) is that the crowd hardly even reacted to the gun shot... It makes me wonder what those folks go through on a daily basis.
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Chris, 15 Apr 2006 @ 7:02am

in addition to the bigger issue
for some reason, the rest of my rant got cut off....so here it is

this guy should be put into jail for putting these children in danger. when it comes to kids and safety, there is no room for error. this was a BIG error. the least that should happen to him is that he is fired.

idot with gun + kids = very very bad idea!
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Chuck Stricker, 15 Apr 2006 @ 7:27am

Human DEA Agent
It's hard to believe some of the preceding comments. From racism thru politics, with not much empathy for an example of what we are all capable. The man did a boo-boo and reacted much better after than I could have. While the mistake was quite stupid, it was something we are all capable of doing. It is simply a humorous video of an unlucky human being.
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Okita Soji, 15 Apr 2006 @ 7:34am

I AM HORRIFIED
Okay listen: I'm not a anti-gun extremist (in fact, I have my concealed weapons permit...called a CPL [concealed pistol license] here in Seattle) and when I travel (on a harley, usually by myself) I've been known to carry.

BUT IT IS HORRIFYING TO ME THAT ANYONE WOULD CARRY A LOADED HANDGUN INTO A SCHOOL!!! THIS GUY SHOULD BE BROUGHT UP ON CRIMINAL CHARGES.

Okay, so let's say you bring a loaded gun into a school...fine. keep it holstered. NEVER DRAW YOUR SERVICE SIDEARM FOR A DEMONSTRATION!!!

It's certainly nice to hear that this cat can't get a job now since his career is ruined. At least he'll be out of his own harms way.
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Les, 15 Apr 2006 @ 7:39am

in regards to his suing
It is interesting that this guy is suing his government for his mistake, he's the one who shot himself, if anything, the DEA should sue him for the negative exposure and making ones in his profession look bad. And the lawyer he found must've been outa work for enough time to be out of practice and ability to not see a lost case when he considered it, between the two, and good example of the show, Dumb and Dumber, who's the dumber is the lawyer, haha
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Casey, 15 Apr 2006 @ 8:12am

Let's look at both sides...
So, the guy shoots himself in the foot. There are three things wrong with what he did:
1) He brought a loaded firearm into a school in front of a bunch of kids.
2) He claimed the firearm was unloaded without checking it.
3) He pointed it something he didn't wish to destroy and pulled the trigger.

I think what this man did was quite unintelligent, and he shouldn't have a job becuase he can't follow a couple BASIC saftey steps while demonstrating gun saftey. It's rather pathetic.

BUT, I disagree with the DEA releasing this video to public. I'm sure the guy was humiliated enough by having it happen, let alone showing it to everyone on the internet. If the DEA was worried about how they looked becuase of an incompetent act like that, they should have filed that video away. The guy should either lose his job, or get some sort of punishment, but public humiliation usually isn't the way to go, especially for a government agency who wishes to preserve the integrity of their organization!

I'm glad that the kids had enough sense to tell him to put the second gun down after he managed to shoot himself with the first one. It's sad that a bunch of teenage kids had more common sense than a DEA agent. Makes me feel REAL safe.
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jack, 15 Apr 2006 @ 8:41am

HA HA
i cant stop laughing ....the guy is an idiot.. they should not be hiring incompetent morons like that to protrct us ...
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Howard Lee Harkness (profile), 15 Apr 2006 @ 8:59am

Handgun safety
I was able to download a copy of the video here: http://gunsafety.kisscentral.net/VIDEO/deacopshootsself.wmv

I use videos like this one in my concealed handgun classes, so I am glad that this one was available. This one illustrates a very basic principle: This officer did not have sufficient training in the proper use of his handgun. I feel sorry for him, but his embarrassment is instructive.

There is a gun store nearby, where I have occasionally done business. If you go in there and ask to see a gun, the clerk will clear it before handing it to you. He will then watch carefully while you handle it. When you hand it back to him, he will clear it again. The chance of a mishap is small, but the consequences are enormous, so it is worth going to extremes to prevent a negligent discharge.
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Leland, 15 Apr 2006 @ 9:07am

Uhm...
Nice shooting!

But litigation? He's going to come out looking even worse then he does now. Wait until the other team cracks open the rule book and begins outlining all the regulations he broke just unholstering his weapon with out cause.
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Les, 15 Apr 2006 @ 9:23am

the gun was still loaded
This guy shot himself, but what did he do with that gun after, the clip was still in it so it would've cycled another round into the chamber, this could've turned much worse if he had of panicked with so many people around, considering this, it is surprising that he got off without being charged for reckless endangerment. Anyone else would've been probably. He certainly deserves all the critisism that he gets, maybe the government should reconsider and charge him like, really that is a serious thing, an accident that should never had happened if this guy was as experienced and trained as he claims to be.
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Stephen, 15 Apr 2006 @ 9:36am

Re: It was JUST that stupid!
Amen. My dog has better gun handling skillz.
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Stephen, 15 Apr 2006 @ 9:39am

Re: Re: It was JUST that stupid!
While you've got a point, I've got to agree with the original poster. Shooting yourself in the foot in a room full of children is negligent, not accidental. I would question the intelligence behind using loaded weapons as demonstration tools to begin with.
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Tyshaun, 15 Apr 2006 @ 10:01am

Re: Re: RE: It was just that stupid
As for my background, I've done part time law enforcement along with serving 9 years Army Infantry...on top of my subscription to G&A. Stop sticking up for hoodrats in uniform. Theres nothing more sickening to see law enforcement officers exchange gang signs with gang members, which I see ALL too often. It bothers me that that DEA agent even KNOWS who "50 Cent" is. Our Law enforcement officers should be ABOVE that trash.

It bothers me the level of naivety and just plain ignorance being shown by more and more techdirt commentors these days. Let's think for 2.5 seconds what a DEA agent is....

1) most don't wear uniforms

2) most of the time THEIR JOB is to deal with low life hoodrats who know a lot about 50 cent, so it seems rather appropriate that they have this knowledge too.

3) I would shudder to think how incredibly inefficient the DEA would be if their agents walked around conducting themselves like military officers. There's nothing wrong with military officers, their discipline and outright show of neat and orderly appearance is appropriate for the job. However, I imagine a Navy officer type stands out like a sore thumb in the middle of the hood, or meeting with a Columbian Cartel member.

Let's get back to reality form does follow function. A DEA agent deals with a lot of lowlife, and it seems appropriate they should be able to assimilate into the culture. GI Joe seems a little too out of place to be fighting a drug war.
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Hercules, 15 Apr 2006 @ 10:24am

What an idiot
The model he's got is a Glock 23 .40 caliber. For those who talked about the safety on the gun, this particular model incorporates a safety mechanism into the trigger itself. So if you pull back on the trigger you have to press the safety which fires the gun. With that model the best safety is to not put your finger on the trigger. They always say don't put your finger on the trigger unless you want to shoot at something.

Of course being a trained DEA agent he should know that after firing his weapon for hundreds to thousands of hours at the range. Regarding a loaded weapon being brought into school, Federal agents are typically required to carry their issued sidearm with them at all times while on duty. Most wouldn't pull them out loaded and fire off a couple rounds, so it wouldn't normally be a big deal. This guy made a mistake, but he probably shouldn't have been given a gun in the first place. Fortunately no one else was hurt, and fortunately he wasn't hurt that badly either.

The Government paid for his medical expenses, and the government should be the one suing him for his serious negligence. His career is ruined because he made a ridiculous mistake and everyone who saw the video has held him accountable for that. Yeah it was a mistake, but it only takes one mistake to seriously injure or kill someone. Law enforcement personnel can't afford to make those kinds of mistakes. They are trained not to.
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Ron (profile), 15 Apr 2006 @ 10:56am

Agent
What an a**hole!!
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ripper, 15 Apr 2006 @ 11:02am

dea
First off this took place in a public arena a school funded by taxpayers,the agent a employee of a government agency funded by taxpayers, must be shown to the public anything else would be either a coverup or censorship of news.
The agent in question did handle himself well after blowing off his big toe but did not even come close to the general rules of firearm handling in public.
This agent is more likely a public awareness officer
who does not handle a gun every day, the dea did what was right to expose this incident as what is was a accident by a clumsly agent.
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Chris, 15 Apr 2006 @ 11:03am

...just maybe.....
well, maybe this dea agent isnt the only person we should blame. most of the people who work for the government are "yes men/women". all they know how to do is follow orders, not common sense. he was prob told to go do a gun safety demo for thses kids and no more. no one ever told him he had to empty the gun first! silly isnt it, but sadly, thats all our Gestapos can do, follow their orders, and nothing more.

poor guy
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Stranger, 15 Apr 2006 @ 11:14am

So to recap:
Here are the responses to this story -

1) Huk Yuk Yuk Yuk he done shoot his self in the foot he done derserved it.

2) See? Just what I thought. Every single government employee from dog catcher to Supreme Court Justice is completely worthless and insane and here's definative proof. Case closed. The entire governmet sucks.

3) Oh, well he had a Glock .66 multi-rim fire platicine "Enforcer" model with Kung-Fu grips and Shure-Lock safety enhancements that if he had just enabled the special....zzzz..zzz..zzzzzz

4) Sue happy! Sue happy! They're all just sue happy! Everybody just blames someone else! Damn our legal system! He's already won simply because he filed suit! And we all pay for it!

5) See, that's what happens when you let the darkies in with the white folks. Not a single one is qualfied for any job but steppin' and fetchin'. Proof positive, affirmative action only make em' uppity.

Wash rinse and repeat.

Welcome to America, land of the jackasses.
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Chris, 15 Apr 2006 @ 11:38am

why cant we be friends???
alright, i've been seeing a lota comments made about race here, and i hate to break it to you all, but..........

RACE DOESNT MATTER!!!!!!!!

just cause someone is black or white or mexican or whatever, it DOES NOT make you a better or worse cop. the fact is, the government hires under-qualified people to fill positions, and then hand them guns and a badge. the government doesnt want their employees to think for themselves (which is what a qualified person would do), they just need agents to do what they are told.

as for racests...... your family imagrated here too sucka! and if it wasnt for us "white peoples" we wouldnt have half the issues we have today. and just so you know, i am a cracker, whity or whatever other term there is for a white person. but that is a totally different topic for a different thread
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Chris, 15 Apr 2006 @ 11:41am

oh boy
well, "nd if it wasnt for us "white peoples" we wouldnt have half the issues we have today." came out kinda wrong. guess that happens when you write a comment angry. by that i ment that the white people are the CAUSES for sooooo many of the worlds problems.
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pokerjunky, 15 Apr 2006 @ 11:59am

Re: Im not a government guy either...
He should be paid punative damages? Are you F*&(* crazy? This is just yet another dumb azz jig that got hired because he was not white. This idiot obviously wasnt chosen for the job because he excelled in training. Now you want to pay him for being an idiot? Please put him on a desk job somewhere before he hurts anyone else.

Is this guy related to Chedda Bob? Eminem would love this guy.
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Billy, 15 Apr 2006 @ 12:15pm

A quick little comparison.
Ok, so there are several sides to this issue.

One is that this man made a mistake, that all people make mistakes, and that because of this he should be forgiven.

Another is that he is held to a higher level than the rest of us because he is a DEA agent, a trained handler of firearms, and therefore his mistake is inexcusable.

Yet another is that his mistake should simply not have been displayed for the masses to witness, regardless of how we feel towards his behavior.

I'm sure there are others, but those three above are the general ideas in this comment section.

Now to put things in a bit of perspective, I have some statistics for you. Please take them with a grain of salt however, since as we all know, statistics can be manipulated to prove whatever point you want.

In 2003, 30,136 people in the US were killed by Firearms. This number includes everything, homicide, suicide, accidents....all of them. All firearm deaths are either the result of someone being intentional, or someone being incompetent. I don't think you can debate this fact, as what other actions will result in someone dying from a firearm? Even in the case of an officer shooting a suspect, the act is intentional.

Also in 2003, 43,220 people in the US were killed in car accidents. This number includes both drivers and passengers, basically ANYONE who died as a result of an automotive accident on US highways. All of these highway deaths are the result of someone being intentional, or someone being incompetent.

Now, if we're looking at this issue from a safety standpoint, a large number of people are killed each year by both firearms and automobiles. The training that individuals recieve for both is drastically different, but that is regardless of the fact that both still kill a large number of people, and another debate for another time.

If you feel this man should be severely punished for his mistake because he should have been more responsible with his firearm, I sincerely hope that you also feel that anyone who makes a similar mistake in a car should be severely punished for their mistakes.

3500 lbs can be quite dangerous if not handled well. Weight of that magnitude can crush almost anything, and if propelled at speed can become quite devistating when it collides with anything. Pulling your steering wheel a distance of a couple inches while driving 70mph could result in loss of control in most vehicles on the road. (please do not debate this by saying your Porsche could handle this, I'm talking of the majority of vehicles on the road, which are inexpensive with cheap tires)

Automobiles can be quite dangerous. As dangerous as a handgun even, and when looking at raw statistics for deaths they could be considered more dangerous. I don't think they are when you consider how many people own and drive automobiles compared to how many people own and use firearms, however they DO share similar dangers, and they DO kill a lot of people.

I'm not for banning either guns or cars, I have nothing against them, they are just tools. The danger is in the people that use those tools. Again, that is a debate for another day.
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AnarChaos, 15 Apr 2006 @ 2:19pm

ROTF
LMAO....

reminds me of the video about wrestling on spikedhumor.com where they suplex a guy off the roof.

This is too much... do you Yanks feel safe now?
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Anonymous Bum, 15 Apr 2006 @ 2:22pm

Show and Tell
This guy was acting like it was show and tell. Bragging that he was the only with professional experience to handle this instrument like 50 Cent and Too Short(entertainers that pander to ghetto folk).

If had had been a professional he would have never unholstered his Glock! Glocks are notorius for shooting their own handlers.

This guy is an idiot and deserves public humiliation. If my child was in the room I would have disarmed the idiot myself and plaed him under arrest for discharging the weapon in a school. ( a crime everywhere even if you are a dea agent)
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Kyle, 15 Apr 2006 @ 2:42pm

Re: ...just maybe.....
Chris, you think that the U.S. gov. uses "Gestapos"? My friend, you don't have any clue what you are talking about, IMHO. The mental picture I have of you after reading your comment is of a frightened little man with a tinfoil hat on, hiding in a shack out in the woods, huddled over your computer. Is that how you wanted to come across?
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Cyryl, 15 Apr 2006 @ 2:42pm

Re: Re: WOW!!
YOU need to learn to type.

If you don't have anything to say concerning this issue...then STFU. Don't waste our time (and MY bandwidth...) with petty insults.
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useful commentor, 15 Apr 2006 @ 3:13pm

Re: Re: RE: It was just that stupid
RIVET HEAD Maybe you hould see someone about getting your rivets loosened. YOU criticized the cops in the North Hollywood Shootout for not being able to score a headshot. THEY were the ones facing full auto weapons and mostly armed with 9mm berettas and 12 guage shotguns without slugs which they undertrained to deploy. Still they didn't back off. They may have been outgunned, but they were ever outmanned. They proved that. If they don't deserve your gratitude and respect then they at least shouldn't have to put up with criticism from a peace time 11- bravo who used to play cop part-time.
Which by the way doesn't have anything to do with an accidental discharge by a DEA agent. You don't know him You don't know where he has been or what he has been through. Have a laugh at his expense, That's OK. Learn a lesson. That's OK. I'm sure he did. But if you haven't walked a mile in his moccasins don't judge him from a single mistake unless you can't show us all the nail holes in your hands.
I think you probably scour the internet daily trying to find some incident that both allows you to feel superior and provide you with an outlet for your misinformed observations. By the way, How do you tell when someone is shooting at you at night?
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Cyryl, 15 Apr 2006 @ 3:26pm

The Breakdown (REALITY)
First of all... Cut this bullshit about affirmative action. In law enforcement OR the military (in which I DID complete training as a weapons expert) you either make the grade or you don't.

If you competently complete the training with evaluation...you're a 'GO'.
If you DON'T...you're a 'NO-GO'.

If you're a NO-GO you don't go ANYWHERE until you either complete the training correctly and competently OR you are finally fail out. No ifs, ands or butts about it. END OF STORY. Besides... If the government is above the law as some of you keep saying...then what the HELL makes you think that they hold themselves to any affirmative action law? You don't think that they'll find a way around it if they either A.) Wanted to or B.) Have good reason to? You're STUPID. Quit contradicting yourselves.

All here who have served in the military or law enforcement...RAISE YOUR HAND.

*sees only a very small handful - IF that many - raise their hand*

Now those of you who DIDN'T raise your hands...SHUT THE FUCK UP. If you haven't served then you haven't earned the right to talk shit against the forces. END OF STORY.

The individual in the video did NOT act in the most professional manner. That can not be denied. He should not have mentioned those worthless social disturbances called "50 Cent" and "Too Short". They are NOT professionals of ANY kind and should not be cited in a presentation that requires the level of professionalism that they lack. They are bad examples and while they may or may not seek to inspire the type of social distemper that they DO inspire in the minds of many who listen to their "music"...it still stands that they DO inspire it. I'm sure that I don't have to explain any further on that note. But I will say that at least the agent was trying to reach out to kids and identify with them in a way that the (obviously) black majority audience would be able to identify with.

THERE IS NO GLOCK "40". Law Enforcement (not the military...) often refers to a weapon by it's manufacturer and CALIBER. The "40" is notation of it's CALIBER. It is a category in Glock's line of handguns. Take a look at the Glock website again. THIS time notice that there is NO model "40". Only 20-series model numbers. They are .40 Caliber. So all of you competition-toting MORONS need to do your research again, apparently.

LOOK:
http://www.glock.com/40.htm

As for having shot himself in the foot... So far I have yet to see ANYONE hold the individual that handed him the firearm accountable for the incident. Has ANYONE here stopped and bothered to ask, "Hey! What about the person who handed it to him? Did HE - AS A PROFESSIONAL - clear the weapon BEFORE handing it to the agent giving the presentation?" The individual handing him the weapon is just as much at fault for the incident having occured as the agent giving the presentation is for not ensuring that the weapon was cleared. Whatever fate befell the agent should also have befallen the individual who handed him the weapon.

When handling firearms...you NEVER hand it to anyone for ANY reason at ANY time without first clearing the weapon! You lock the bolt back, inspect the chamber to ENSURE THAT THERE IS NO AMMUNITION IN THE RECEIVER, and hand the firearm to the individual with the bolt STILL locked to the rear. As the individual receives the weapon from you; THEY TOO should be making sure that they inspect the open chamber to ensure that there are no rounds in the barrel...THEN receive the weapon into their hands. THIS IS FAILSAFE. YOU CAN NOT FIRE A ROUND THAT YOU KNOW IS NOT THERE.

So those of your who DID raise your hands calling yourselves professionals, etc...SHUT THE FUCK UP. You sure as hell didn't mention THAT. Now did you?

As for the tape being released... I highly doubt that there is ANY way the DEA would release that footage. As we ALL know... Government agencies are finding it increasingly difficult to save face in the eye of the public when things go wrong. Do you really think that they would release footage that would make it that much harder for them to do so? Did you see the horrible quality of the footage? I doubt that anything the DEA would be toting around would look like so much shit.

The next thing we'll be hearing out of you critics among us is that it was CONSPIRACY.

The agent may have been a bit out of the context of professionalism... However I seriously doubt that he INTENDED to shoot himself in the foot. SHIT HAPPENS. Case and point. He should have been able to trust that the other agent would have cleared the weapon first to begin with. Even if so he should have checked the weapon himself. Who is to say that he intentionally pulled the trigger? Sure he should have been more careful but again... SHIT HAPPENS. Should he have been reprimanded? YES. For carelesness. As well as the other agent should have been disciplined for the same. This does not mean that they are NOT competent agents. This does NOT mean that they are not fully capable of doing the jobs that they were trained to do. And I can GUARANTEE you that they were NOT put there because they're BLACK. They were put there because they passed a training curriculum that prepared them for the job they were going into. All that any of this really means is that they need to be retrained to verify that they DO possess the knowledge and ability to do their jobs and also so that they REMEMBER not to make a mistake like this again. IF they can not be retrained then they will either be reassigned or terminated.

The agent however...should probably not be going as far as suing the government over the release of the tape. He won't win it. It is completely unlikely that the tape was ever even in their hands let alone released by them. If the DEA DID confiscate the tape then the tape had to have been stolen or copied and THEN distributed. The only case he would have would be liability on the DEA's part for not securing potentially 'confidential' or personal information. That's about it.

Last but not least... I have to say that for having just shot himself in the foot...he handled it like a CHAMP. How many of YOU could do that? I doubt I could. Seriously think about it.

Yes... THINK for once before opening your mouths...
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Cyryl, 15 Apr 2006 @ 3:33pm

Props
Congratulations to BILLY for his sound-minded post.

Post #55
A quick little comparison. by Billy on Apr 15th, 2006 @ 12:15pm
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Jordan Edens, 15 Apr 2006 @ 3:53pm

VP
I'm not a Cheney fan, however, I've grown up hunting and the way that the news presented the shooting is bogus. It's very easy to shoot your hunting buddies in the face when they're in the wrong spot, aka as you swing your shotgun to lead the bird and fire they cross the line of tragectory. His friend should have been behind him, not to his right.
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Silicon Rover, 15 Apr 2006 @ 3:54pm

This man negligently fired a gun in a room full of children and the only consequence was the embarassment of the video being released to the public? He is lucky that he did not serve time in jail/
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Billy, 15 Apr 2006 @ 4:25pm

Thanks Cyryl, I found your post quite level headed too. I especially like how you're the only one that mentioned how he handled the situation after having shot himself in the foot.

When that video originally hit the net, I remember having a debate with some friends about wether or not he actually shot himself. We came to the conclusion that even though what he did was stupid and his own fault, he handled that situation like a PROFESSIONAL. No yelling and cussing, no pointing fingers, he kept with the program and kept his presentation up. He even took advantage of the bad situation and attempted to twist it around so that the kids could still benifit from it and make it a learning experience.

I'm sorry but I don't think some "affirmitive action", "thug" could have kept his cool like that while giving a presentation in front of a class of children.

All kinds of people do all kinds of jobs, but the one thing that stays constant is that you have to be resonably qualified in the skill that your job requires. If this man hacked his way through the academy and college classes, making a D average in his school work, I don't think he would even stand a chance of becoming a desk jockey, let alone an undercover officer.

Which brings me to another question, if this man was supposedly an undercover officer WHAT THE HELL WAS HE DOING GIVING A PRESENTATION TO ANYONE IN THE PUBLIC!?!??!! Why was there even a camera rolling?

The local news station did an expo on some of the "sketch" that the mayor of Detroit, Kilpatrick, was doing. One of the improper use of public funds was when his wife was spotted driving around a brand new Lincoln Navigator that was supposed to be for the police department (at a time when they were making massive cuts in all the wrong things because of unexplaned errors in the budget paperwork). Well they caught up with the car in a city lot and happened to film several undercover vehicles at the time that were parked in the same lot, and eve made mention that they were "undercover" vehicles. The next day all those vehicles had to be sent to auction since they were exposed, and I'm not sure if the city was planning on sueing the news station for damages or not. If so, I'm sure they wouldn't have covered that part of the story anyway. Any news is good news, and bad news is the best news.....except when it's bad news about yourself.

What I'm saying is when you're undercover, no one can know that you ARE except the most trustworthy of people, like your co-workers and family. NOT THE GENERAL PUBLIC, or even an elementery school class. You don't expose yourself to the public, much less allow you to be filmed.

The real truth of the matter, is that this video only shows us a little of that ONE situation, and that is certainly not enough information to pass judgement upon this man. For all we could know, a bunch of armed gun men could have rushed into that room 5 minuites later and attempted to hold everyone hostage and our hero here took them all down and saved the entire class. Granted that would have been in the news for sure, but none the less, the fact still stands that WE DO NOT KNOW. Unless you were there in that room that day, you can only speculate as to the thoughts, motives, and even actions of those involved.

Speculation has never been used to pass efficient judgement on anyone, in fact our judicial system works in an exactly opposite manner.
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Cyryl, 15 Apr 2006 @ 4:26pm

Re:
He would not serve jailtime. It was not an intentional 'offense'. No one was harmed.

Had a child been shot and killed he would most likely been brought up on manslaughter.

Doesn't ANYONE here know the law?
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Fen, 15 Apr 2006 @ 4:46pm

Done deal
Wow. With that said by Billy and Cyryl...who needs to say anything else?

Good show, guys. :)
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Glock Smock, 15 Apr 2006 @ 5:53pm

What to do?
Obviously this guy f'ed up. Could have been an accident, yes. Punishment? I'll defer and let his department handle it. He could be a excellent officer who just made a mistake that resulted in no one being hurt.

For all we know, his career is forever ruined even though he is or can be the best officer out there risking his life.

But, I would have preferred that he brought over a fake gun OR using a real gun, taken the magazine out, unloaded the chamber, and do a visual check.

This is so damn elementary to gun owners that's it's like learning the a, b, c's.

Yes had f'up so bad and brought the gun to school. BUT, no one was hurt. He should be disciplined at work, and go back out there and learn from his mistakes. I would think now that he's safer than safe.
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alex, 15 Apr 2006 @ 6:38pm

child endangerment
why this goof ball was never charged for discharging a firearm in a class of kids is beyond me. what if he had been pointing the gun at someone or something that could have ricochoted into a kid injuring or killing a child.
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Cyryl, 15 Apr 2006 @ 7:07pm

RE: child endangerment
Why do you focus on the children?

It's the potential threat that it poses to ANYONE - child OR adult. Age doesn't matter.

AGAIN: he would NOT be charged with 'Discharge of a Firearm Within City Limits' (the actual name of the charge you are refering to...) because it was NOT INTENTIONAL and it was the fault of more than ONE individual. Also because he HAS a carry and conceal permit AND a license to use it. While this does NOT authorize accidental discharge of the weapon (what would?), he is ALSO protected by his status. He WAS in the line of duty. It is actually not much different than if you were to cut yourself on the job. Are you going to tell me that you believe that you would be charged with "Assault With a Deadly Weapon" if you cut yourself with a knife? You can just as easily harm someone else with that knife as you can with a firearm. SAME THING.

What sets him apart is the fact that he works in a line of work that requires higher standards. It will be written off as an accident and he WILL be punished. His career will be tarnished. Co-workers WILL give him shit for it. His career portfolio will most likely prevent him from moving up into different sections of law enforcement, etc.

BUT HE WILL NOT BE CRIMINALLY CHARGED.

So QUIT ASKING "Why was he not charged, blah, blah..."
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Cyryl, 15 Apr 2006 @ 7:09pm

RE: child endangerment (P.S.)
BTW. IF you had read the thread you would have read where I myself DID SAY in post #66:

"Had a child been shot and killed he would most likely been brought up on manslaughter."

Does that answer your question - AGAIN?
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Rob Mayfield, 15 Apr 2006 @ 7:24pm

Why didnt the kids fight back ?
I'm surprised half the class didnt draw a concealed weapon when they heard the shot ? Surely the DEA agent is lucky not to have perished in a hail of bullets ...

;-)
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WhooTAZ, 15 Apr 2006 @ 7:36pm

Amazing there are now 73 posts...
Yeah I posted to complain how stupid that everyone is getting worked up over nothing....

What we should all be concerned about is the political red tape this will create and the cost to every US citizen (not including the 11- 13 million illegal mexicans out there, who are sucking the blood out of our FEDeral assistance programs) over this DEA's stupidity.. What was he a 1 day graduate of the DEA school for incompetent officers????

Happy Resurrection Sunday!
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Professor Highbrow, 15 Apr 2006 @ 7:46pm

Re: Difference in mentality
What is wrong with you?

Would we want a divided police force where all actions are politicized, and every cop is eager to say bad things about other cops?

Absolutely! Law enforcement officers have to abide by a code of ethics, and yes, that should mean exposing corrupt cops. Just because you haven't personally experienced this type of problem does not mean that it does not exist.

Would you want to go to a hospital where doctors, nurses are all telling you that their co-workers are killers?

Once again, YES!!
If they are killers, then they should be questioned.

What you call "upholding public trust" is just a nice and pallitable way of saying the word CONSPIRE.

At least there is some sense in your trailing statement, "internal accountability."
You miss a key point here though: Government/Police/Officials/Public Trustees should ALWAYS be accountable and prepared to be questioned. That is the way American democracy is supposed to work...
If everyone were to stop scrutinizing and asking questions about public officials, what do you think would happen?
Who is gonan "police" the police? And who is going to "police" the 'police' that are policing the police? Get the IDEA??

All representatives sanctioned by government are subject to question no matter what. Hellos 1st ammendment, Dorpus. Read It.

--Professor HighBrow (with brows especially high)
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Blood & Guts, 15 Apr 2006 @ 7:48pm

Send his Ass to the front....
The quickest way to get rid of a lawsuit is send 'em to the FRONT.......

Send the DEA agent to IRAQ or Afghanistan and lets see him cry about his foot problem when he is dodging bullets aimed at his Head and Ass....

If he is luck he may get a Glock for defense, if not a pouch of stones and slingshot.... But no Goliath's there... Bummer DEA agent
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Blood & Guts, 15 Apr 2006 @ 7:48pm

Send his Ass to the front....
The quickest way to get rid of a lawsuit is send 'em to the FRONT.......

Send the DEA agent to IRAQ or Afghanistan and lets see him cry about his foot problem when he is dodging bullets aimed at his Head and Ass....

If he is luck he may get a Glock for defense, if not a pouch of stones and slingshot.... But no Goliath's there... Bummer DEA agent
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Blood & Guts, 15 Apr 2006 @ 7:48pm

Send his Ass to the front....
The quickest way to get rid of a lawsuit is send 'em to the FRONT.......

Send the DEA agent to IRAQ or Afghanistan and lets see him cry about his foot problem when he is dodging bullets aimed at his Head and Ass....

If he is luck he may get a Glock for defense, if not a pouch of stones and slingshot.... But no Goliath's there... Bummer DEA agent
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Jason Quiggle, 15 Apr 2006 @ 7:53pm

open society and redemption
i'm still not clear on wether the government or some other entity released this video on the web. if it was a private citizen he had every right to show his video to anyone he wanted including the world wide web. IF it was the government- we live in an open society all, government materials technically belong to the people. classified documents notwithstanding ( and even those, eventually and untimately belong in the public domain ), if this video was indeed property of the DEA than it belongs to all of us. Just like your job history, your criminal background, the taxes you pay, the things you buy- every public thing you have done, every document you have signed, and increasingly, even the things you do with yourself and yours inside your own house. The ferderal government does not need a big brother apparatus as we have become our own big brothers and gladly subject ourselves to surveilance in the marketplace, on city streets etc. in the name of security. The actions and beauracracy of our governement is transparent within reason (national security, covert operations excluded, temporarily in theory). These are the principals of an open and free society, and the paradoxes inherent in one are not always so easy to abide by. If you are in a public exhibition in a public school as a public employee being documented by public equipment for the purposes of documentation of public works, then you and your actions are public domain. I personally find the inhumane and unconstitutional drug war to be one of our more repugnant ventures as a republic, and this video only reaffirms my suspicions about a government organization with too much power having stared into the abyss of the international drug trade for so long theyve become reckless, negligent and perhaps even nelgigently malevolent. Not to mention the danger of giving a questionable, mismanaged, misguided apparatus of the government beauracracy a free check to run amok within our own borders and in other nations.The scourge of narcotics is a plague indeed, and one of its most damaging side effects is America's failed, hysterical and even fanatical reaction to it. A reasonable man would not attempt to cure cancer with bullets yet we treat the health problem of drug addiction in much the same way, trampling civil right and twisting the constitution to the breaking point in the process turning a blind eye to the Fed's manipulation of their right to govern interstate commerce as it treats us like children, incapable of responsibley excercising our God given, constitutionaly mandated right to personal freedom, freedom of property, freedom of self. As a fellow human being i pity for this man this man, but i also see him as one of the many inevitable consequences of a bloated federal governement sufferring the sicknesses of beuaracracy and led by the motivations of evil men with too much power. If our our founding fathers were alive today theyd be enemies of state, fomenting revolution, and if they were capable of pulling us out of our post 911, nationalist fanatic heads out of our collective ass and attempted to put the Fed back in its place, theyd do so, because theyd be up against fool beauracrats and the gun toting fools theyve hired to "protect us" who really only hold us back fighting wars that shouldnt be wars, and botching the ones that should be fought liket he global war on terror. Next time your little cousin, sister or brother gets hooked on heroin and lives taht hellsih nightmare you can thank our leaders turning a blind eye to the opium trade in afghanistan which post Taliban flourishes. And soon, when America is struck again on it's soil by our enemies, and we reel once again bloodied by our true enemies, as unprepared fools following a corrupt fool government foll of evil men and their shot in the "foot" soldiers. Fight the terrorist like terrorist, and fight drugs with docters and scientist and teachers and parenting not with hip hopping fauz gangsters and paramilitary troops that should not be in colubia as theya re right now but in pakistan raiding village anfter village, carpet bombing mountain top after mountain top, turning our troops into smalls cells of shock troops to terrorize the insurgents of Iraq, palestine, pakistan, afghanistan, malaysia, the philipines etc. Stop paying the likes of mister shot in the foot to play cowboys n indians with drug dealers in our streets and instead secure our borders, our ports, our transit systems, our major cities, our people and our land. If you think the Fed handled Katrina badly, wait until al queda set of a dirty bomb in New York harbor or some equally ill prepared,small american town. This guy shoudl be the first to be fired and certainly not the only governemnt employee being shamed for his negligence before the eyes of the world wide internet/media. Perhaps you think ive taken this example too far in its implications, perhaps you are wrong..
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3 Star General, 15 Apr 2006 @ 7:56pm

Re: Send his Ass to the front....
Get with Lt Col. Andersen with the Army 101st and we will sign this bullet magnet to defend our less trained troops...

Ask him if he wants Iraq or Afg...

(703) 797-5131
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Billy, 15 Apr 2006 @ 8:08pm

More stupid people
Ok, not nessisarily stupid, but jeeze, we're talking about a guy who accidentaly discharged a firearm during a demonstration in a class room.

We're not talking about the welfare of our country and it's economic state.

Why do some people take any opportunity to ramble on completely unrelated subject matter in the comments section?

Oh that's right.....Anonymity.....and I guess we're ALL just as guilty of that.
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Billy, 15 Apr 2006 @ 8:14pm

Concequently, if you want people to read and understand your message, you need to use sentence and paragraph structure, along with mostly correct grammer.

Slang is fine and who cares about mispellings, but over use dulls the message.

Not trying to pick on or insult anyone, just a sincere suggestion to those that actually want others to understand and read their messages. It's difficult to understand the point of a paragraph when it's bunched in with all the other paragraphs.

It will also allow you to better structure your argument and make specific points that will stand out.

Chatting in an instant message is one thing, a fixed post intended to be read by thousands is another.

Again, NOT picking on anyone, just offering suggestions to allow you to be a better writer and get your point across. Even if it's a point I disagree with, if it's made well I have no choice but to respect it.
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Sum Dum Gui, 15 Apr 2006 @ 8:52pm

No excuse
A semi-auto with open action? He racks the slide and chambers a round and shoot a hole in his foot?

No excuse. Why, for a demo like this would you have live ammo anywhere near these guns?

Everyone makes mistakes, but not mistakes like this.

This guy should be sacking orders of fries and frankly I wouldn't eat at the joint that would hire him.
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Tim, 15 Apr 2006 @ 10:38pm

I own hand guns that I shoot often on a range. I have never had 'formal' training but I know that I am to never to point my firearm at anything I didn't want to kill... and every gun is always loaded. Period. Basic Firearms 101. Im glad this dude didn't kill a student and he should be laughed at until he disappears... Obvioulsy he's been at home a lot lately watching the lawyer ads on afternoon TV.
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Crossbones, 16 Apr 2006 @ 7:15am

Re: Re: Re: It was JUST that stupid!
There is no Glock Model 40. You are linking to a .40 caliber cartridge that Glock uses in some of the Models listed. So, I guess you were the only one who got the memo that you speak of.

The main problem with the whole thing: This man had a loaded gun around children. PERIOD. The weapon should have been cleared BEFORE he even entered the building. There is no excuse for what he did...he did it to himself.
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Joe C, 16 Apr 2006 @ 7:37am

Re: Re: Re: It was JUST that stupid!
There actually is no Glock "model" 40. There "40" reference was apparently to the caliber the weapon uses. It was probably a Glock 22.

Is it confirmed anywhere that he actually shot his foot? Looking at the video, it does not appear that the weapon was at such a sharp angle to allow for the round to strike any part of his body. Also, he continues to speak, and, crazy enough, decides to show the class an automatic rifle that he claims is "empty," before he checks it.
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useful commentor, 16 Apr 2006 @ 7:46am

Re: Re: Send his Ass to the front....
3 STAR- Blood and Nuts. I'm sorry, no matter how hard I try to see your point of view, I find that age and old injuries, prevent me from getting my head that far up my ass.
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whatever, 16 Apr 2006 @ 9:45am

Re: Difference in mentality
I totally agree with dorpus; I am also not in Law Enforcment. That fact that the guy shot himself in the foot is not the only thing this lawsuit is about. It's also about the video being released online to millions of people. It was simply an accident that anyone could've made. So is this about the accident or the video being released online? If it was the former we wouldn't even be discussing this. No, it's about the public trust of such organizations that dorpus mentioned above.
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Vlad Tepes, 16 Apr 2006 @ 10:16am

Ignorant Dumbass
Complete fool for mishandling a weapon. His pompous attitude is attributed to his own failure to handle the weapon and subsequent injury. He is fortunate that he didn't completely eliminate himself from the gene-pool. Then stupid enough to sue...I should thanks someone in the Government for releasing it so I know who to stear clear of....The hopefully former DEA Agent is simply an ignorant dumbass!
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Riders, 16 Apr 2006 @ 10:25am

Re: Re: RELEASING this tape was a public service
Because he's the VP!! Duh!
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Thwack, 16 Apr 2006 @ 11:27am

Not a DEA leak
The video was actually filmed by one of the parents in the audience, not the DEA.

I don't think that the DEA ever had the video in their posesssion... well, maybe as a "you have to see this" email attachment.
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Seven Toes, 16 Apr 2006 @ 12:14pm

Shot while in a car.
I have to believe there are double counts on the gun vs car mortality.

Cars are plenty dangerous, but lets make a list of the "positive uses" for guns, then one for cars.
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nobody, 16 Apr 2006 @ 12:39pm

it was his fault alone
Anyone who handles weapons as part of their job should know... every firearm is to be treated as if it were always loaded. Therefore, you never put your finger on the trigger unless you are intentionally firing the weapon, and you never point the weapon at anything you're not willing to destroy.

The DEA guy who assumed he was getting an unloaded gun handed to him made two mistakes, he assumed the weapon was unloaded (they should be handled at all times as if they were) and he put his finger on the trigger when he did not want to discharge the weapon. Two of the biggest no-no's when handling firearms.

Assuming you got an unloaded weapon from ANYone, even someone you trust with your life, is not acceptable. You must always check the weapon yourself if it has been out of your hands, even briefly.

I don't think he should be fired, but he should have to pay for his mistake. Reprimanded, perhaps knocked down a few levels in pay grade, and put in the DEA basement filing reports for the rest of his 'career'. He should absolutely not be allowed to give any more lectures.

Also, to the idiot who said "glocks are notorious for shooting their handlers"... I'm sure what you meant to say was that glock owners tend to shoot themsleves more than other gun owners (since the trigger must be pulled to shoot a gun, and the guns can't pull their own triggers). I'm not sure I agree with that sentiment, though. It could be the fact that there are more Glocks on the street than most other brands that skews the figures.
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Gosu, 16 Apr 2006 @ 1:39pm

HAHAHA
all i can say to this is HAHAHA thanks for the entertaining video dumbass!

This guy shouldnt be given any weapon of any sort.
He should have to sign out a butter knife.
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dourpus, 16 Apr 2006 @ 2:52pm

WOW!! by Boink on Apr 14th, 2006 @ 6:44pm Only someone who is themselves incompetent would say such a thing!! I
You must be new here. Dorpus is incompetent.
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dourpus, 16 Apr 2006 @ 2:54pm

WOW!! by Boink on Apr 14th, 2006 @ 6:44pm Only someone who is themselves incompetent would say such a thing!! I
You must be new here. Dorpus is incompetent.
There is a professional way to handle employee issues, and releasing a tape like this to the general population isn't it.
Taxpayes have a right to know what their tax dollars go for.
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clay, 16 Apr 2006 @ 3:03pm

Re: Difference in mentality
uh...yes!
I WOULD like to go to a hospital where nurses told me which doctors were killers and I would like to know if cops are incompetent, liars, thugs, etc....

Your comment is truly odd in my opinion.
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Billy, 16 Apr 2006 @ 5:30pm

Oh yeah
So I finally downloaded and watched the video link that someone posted, it's better than the one I saw last year in that it has an addtional 40 seconds of footage where someone tries to hand the guy a shotgun and all the kids spaz out and start yelling "no don't give it to him." That part of the video made it like 10 time more amusing.

I just wanted to make a final point for all the people that seem to think they know everything about handling guns.

The whole checking the chamber thing is standard knowledge for ANYONE that has ever been taught anything about firearms. I understand that people who don't use guns won't know this, but for those of you that do, you don't need to keep repeating what someone else has already said....several times.

Now, about that business about putting your finger on the trigger only if you intend to shoot something. It's a cliche that people like to say. It's impratical in reality.

When you cock a firearm, you're putting tension on the firing spring. ANYONE, and I mean ANYONE who really owns guns and uses them, knows that you don't leave the hammer cocked for an extended period of time. It ruins the tension in the pin-spring and eventually can make it so that the pin doesn't strike the bullet hard enough to fire it. Not to mention the chance of a dropped firearm going off is HUGE if that hammer is cocked (although ironically not in the glocks case, since they have that that lovely double safety action). Don't give me that crap about dry firing either, these aren't your grandpa's guns, dry firing hasn't been a threat to the condition of your gun for over 60 years now.

So he was just releasing the spring out of standard procedure, what ANYONE else would have done in that situation......there just happened to be a bullet in the chamber.....which is what the REAL problem was, not his manner of handling it. In fact it appears he never checked the chamber himself when the gun was handed to him........bet he always checks it now though.

So stop shitting on this guy for "putting his finger on the trigger" and what not. If that's the angle you choose to attack him on, then you truely know very little about firearms.

Also, stop using "the children" as an excuse to condem this man, it's dispicable and weak. If you think he should be in trouble simply because he was around children when this happened, then you have NO clue as to how our legal system works. I might not be a lawyer, but I'm perfectly capable of using Google to look up the laws related to this incident or any other incident. Children need no more protection than any other "innocent" individual. In fact children deserve LESS protection because they contribute hardly anything to sociaty as a whole.

You can say it's cold thinking all you want, and I'm certainly not advocating that DON'T protect children. I'm just saying that they don't deserve some kind of exclusive protection. Isn't that what screws people up anyway in the long run, sheltering your children from reality? Kids aren't as weak as you think they are, and if you TREAT them like they're weak, then they will grow up to be weak.
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Lee G, 16 Apr 2006 @ 8:02pm

Re: It was JUST that stupid!
I know firearms and YES, I also have a GLOCK 40 CALIBER.
Yes, there is such an animal even if you are not aware of it
your quit the expert firend.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2006 @ 10:18pm

Oi
This stupid mistake will haunt this guy forever. Even if there had been no video this story would have made it online somewhere, after all the irony here is classic: While giving a lecture on gun safety a guy shoots himself. If he had of been teaching instead of showing off he would have never shot himself.

On another note... Some of the comments made on this topic actually dropped my IQ a few points I think. I am going to go soak my head for the rest of my life, which should be about as long as it takes me to pass out soaking my head and drown.

Sorry Bad joke.
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rijit, 16 Apr 2006 @ 10:21pm

Oi 2
I posted that last comment about drowning, just forgot to fill in my name =P
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Your logic is flawed..., 17 Apr 2006 @ 1:51am

Re: A quick little comparison.
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Your logic is flawed..., 17 Apr 2006 @ 1:54am

Re: A quick little comparison.
I'm sure the number of people who own cars in America is much higher than the number of people who own guns. In addition to this, I would imagine most people use their cars alot more often than they do their guns.
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Angry Rivethead, 17 Apr 2006 @ 5:58am

Re: Re: It was JUST that stupid!
Its a Glock 23, in 40 S&W.

Maybe you need to learn how to read.
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Scott, 17 Apr 2006 @ 6:07am

Re: Difference in mentality
I'm sorry but I really have to ask this Dorpus:

You are saying that the gov't should not have released a video where an agent is talking about gun safety and shoots himself?

Wasn't that the point of the video? Here is a trained officer who shoots himself, thus proving beyond a doubt about the need for gun safety.
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Philly, 17 Apr 2006 @ 7:17am

What if...
What if instead of aiming the gun at his own foot, this officer would have discharged a bullet into the audience of children and injured or killed one of them? Surely this video would have ended up all over the evening news. This individual's negligence led to a very dangerous situation for everyone in that room which, in my opinion, makes it every bit as newsworthy as a drive-by shooting. I am unaware of anyone suing for release of footage of any other dangerous crimes so where does this guy get off?
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anonymous coward, 17 Apr 2006 @ 10:40am

the DEA agent and the star wars kid should meet so they can can whine together about how their own stupidity was documented on the Internet. Maybe they can start a support group?
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PorradaVFR, 17 Apr 2006 @ 2:28pm

No Such Thing as Accidental Discharge!
If had had been a professional he would have never unholstered his Glock! Glocks are notorius for shooting their own handlers.

That's a ridiculous statement. The Glock cannot fire without the trigger being pulled - no gun has ever spontaneously fired and there is no such thing as an accidental discharge.

Our blameless culture has reached a point where we blame inanimate objects for the actions of PEOPLE. This moron had his finger in the trigger well, he failed to clear the weapon and thankfully he was only aiming as his own foot instead of a child when HE pulled the trigger. It was HIS mistake - NOT a faulty weapon.

I own and have carried a Glock daily. Amazingly enough, it has only gone off when I wanted it to. If you want to blame anything, blame the responsible party.

That is, unless you would also claim your car can drive itself into an accident and your knife attacked you when you cut yourself in the kitchen?
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David Darrah, 17 Apr 2006 @ 5:35pm

gun safety
Why the hell would anyone, including a police office of any kind be using a loaded weapon in a classroom of kids for a demonstration? The Glock is nearly idiot proof having a safety mechanism in the trigger. Why did this moron pull the trigger? He deserves the criticism and should include the video in future demonstrations to show how anyone could have an accident. The government trained him and I'm positive he didn't follow the training directives.
David in Redding, CA.
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Lorenzo, 19 Apr 2006 @ 8:26am

DEA Agent shoots himself
After seeing the video and reading the lawsuit, if I were the agent I would be upset also. This agent according to the lawsuit was one of the top undercover agents they had and for someone out of his office put that video out there not only puts his life on the line, but also his family. Who ever released the video needs think about that.

Accidents happen, but to put a mans life in danger is not a joke. I was a law enforcement officer and the people I had to deal with would love to make an example of someone like this guy by taking him out. He has cost them millions of dollars with the type of drug bust he made, so for those of you that thinks this is funny think about that.
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Ian Readmond, 19 Apr 2006 @ 5:55pm

foot shooting
I can not believe he has not been sued for damaging the hearing of everyone in that room. He should consider himself lucky. If my child were in that room I would have sued him. Someone this stupid should not have been given the enormous responcibilty of carrying a firearm.
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Billy, 19 Apr 2006 @ 8:56pm

OHNOES TEH CHILDREN!!!!11
Lets use our children as an excuse to tell other people how to behave.

I can only hope those that think "for the children" don't have any kids of their own.

Quit using your children as an excuse. It's disgusting and self-centered.
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mars, 19 Apr 2006 @ 10:44pm

Em chupid!
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not dumb enuff 4 federal job, 20 Apr 2006 @ 5:45pm

u want quotas u got quotas
what is there to say that the video doestn already scream out clearly. this is our system...have you ever really looked at who is protecting this country.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Apr 2006 @ 5:47pm

Re: DEA Agent shoots himself
only top undercover because he was a dumb nig of a thug that fit in with the rest...ithat doesnt make me feel safer...
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Apr 2006 @ 5:48pm

Re: Re: RELEASING this tape was a public service
show me an intelligent group of black men......i dare you to find a dozen to pick thru and you still couldnt.
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Bulletsponge, 20 Apr 2006 @ 5:52pm

Re: It was JUST that stupid!
"North Hollywood Shoot out...50+ police on the scene, over 2000rds of ammo expended, and not a SINGLE officer could make a headshot at near point-blank range. I was capable of this at maybe 7 or 8 years old...okay 9. Doug Koenig(IPSC Champ) they are not. "

Obvisously you have never put yourself in their situation. At the age of 7 or 8 you were not put in front of the barral of an AK47 shooting back at you. It is one thing to shoot at a stationary target, it is definantly another thing if the suicidal target has high power automatic weapons and completely covered with body armor from head to toe and you are stuck with just a 9mm peeshooter.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Apr 2006 @ 7:37pm

Re: It was JUST that stupid!
FIRST OF ALL BEFORE YOU MAKE COMMENTS ABOUT THIS MAN BEING GHETTO....CHECK YOUR OWN DAMN GRAMMAR AND SPELLING... A-HOLE, THERE IS SPELL CHECK AVAILABLE TO YOU!!! OH, MABE YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT ABC ON YOUR COMPUTER WOULD DO THAT FOR YOU!!!

I REALLY FEEL FOR THIS MAN, HE MADE ONE MISTAKE AND NOW HE IS BEING LAUGHED AT AROUND THE COUNTRY IF NOT THE WORLD, I THINK THE DAMN GOVERNMENT SHOULD PAY HIM WELL!!!!
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TAI, 20 Apr 2006 @ 7:54pm

Re: The Breakdown (REALITY)
DAMN, I could not have said or agreed MORE!!!
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mayor, 21 Apr 2006 @ 5:50pm

He PWNED himself. :(
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Cents, 21 Apr 2006 @ 6:13pm

Re: Re: It was JUST that stupid!
You should also put "racist idiot" alongside coward beside your name.
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LTC. Sam H. Asbury, III, 22 Apr 2006 @ 4:35am

DEA gun safety concept
Go to the Apache Junction Police Department and see the Russell M. Duncan Memorial. He was shot in the face and killed in a training scenario when they were using real pistols and someone left a bullet in the weapon used by his killer accidentally. And, yes, it is very public.

Mr. Duncan happened to be Caucasion
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neurosis, 22 Apr 2006 @ 2:33pm

Lex Talonis
The Law Of The Talon (jungle if u will)

Natural selection man. Those of us smart enough to not shoot at ourselves are granted the spoils that once belonged to those who are not.

I wish more morons would shoot themselves. A little higher up than the foot perhaps.

Notice to all morons: GET OFF MY PLANET!!

Neurosis

ps: seriously, if something happens... it should be discussed and known. This man should never be allowed to handle a firearm again much less teach gun safety.
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civilian, 27 Apr 2006 @ 9:45am

what I don't understand
Is how he thought he could be undercover after introducing himself in public on camera to inner-city kids as DEA. Ask an inner-city teacher about parent-teacher conferences. Perhaps you'll hear about one where they find students are falling asleep in class because the mother is a prostitute and pushes them out onto the street every night so she can turn tricks without them around. 11 and 12 year old kids wandering the public housing projects every night, sleeping through classes if they even show up, it's not surprising to find them working as lookouts for crackdealers in the projects by the age of 11. It was a parent holding a camcorder, right? ...it's not exactly a school play, right... counter-surveillance...?

But then again he must be retarded if he thinks anyone can sue the government for any reason and win. The government wins 97% of federal cases, they are untouchable. But no doubt the attorney will continue to represent him as long as he is paying by the hour and certainly not on the 'I'll take 33% of the settlement and nothing until then' plan.
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Hemrud, 4 May 2006 @ 8:42pm

Re: The Breakdown (REALITY)
Yeah shit happens UNTILL its your child killed because some jackass who never should have been handed a gun discharges one in a classroom and the bullet finds your child! All the apologist posters here need to realise the most probable reason this footage was leaked was that no action was taken against the persons involved in this presentation. rather than live with the guilt of doing nothing in case these idiots killed a child in the future they put the video on the net. Good for them, they may have saved a life! As a parent this video isnt funny in the least!
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mayor, 4 May 2006 @ 10:34pm

man, poor guy, he'd do anything not be himself right now.
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concerned american, 5 May 2006 @ 7:32pm

Re: RELEASING this tape was a public service
you are the first person i have seen tell the true facts of what is wroung with this country pleas keep talking maybe someone will listen one of these days.
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Rick Barker, 13 May 2006 @ 9:35pm

duh
I have read about a 1/4 of the b.s. that has been said. What kind of gov. do we have that lets a person such as this teach in front of people. And why are we teaching young children about gun safety anyway?
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Jack, 21 May 2006 @ 5:24pm

Re: Im not a government guy either...
Don't make a judgement if you don't know the facts. The DEA as an agency did not release the tape.
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David Clements, 27 May 2006 @ 1:19am

DUMB-shit SWAT are EVERY WHERE!
About 4 years ago on the Cover of the Tahoe Tribune Calif. was a Story about a SWAT cop who SHOT HIMSELF in the hand while Cleaning his weapon and the DUMBSHIT still has his JOB! and these CLOWNS want US to TRUST them? BULLSHIT All COPS SUFFER from IDTENT error of the BRAIN! Now Write out ID10T and you have there TRUE IQ RATING! and Let's NOT forget the CHP CAPTAIN who RAPED & KILLED those Girls in the Palm SPRINGS area 15 YEARS AGO! and then was so GUTLESS he BLEW his head off! I have a GREAT FILE on those SCUMBAGS!! Feel the LOVE!
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Christopher Largen, 28 May 2006 @ 11:31pm

Five U.S. Cops Taped Torturing Drug Suspect - LIST
From incompetence to torture in the failed drug war...

http://wms.scripps.com/knoxville/siler/siler.mp3

When Tennessee law enforcement officials showed up at the home of Lester Siler, a convicted drug dealer on supervised released, they asked his wife and 8 year-old son to leave. They didn't know that Lester's wife had turned on a tape recorder in the kitchen. When Lester exercised his constitutional right not to sign a consent to search his house, these officers spent the next two hours torturing him. They beat him with bats and guns, held loaded guns to his head, threatened to shoot him, dunked his head in the toilet, burned him with lighters, attached his testicles to a battery charger, threatened to cut off his fingers, and threatened to "go get" his wife and take his child away from him. Then they arrested him for "evading arrest". It wasn't until the wife's recording made it to the FBI that all hell broke loose. And go figure, even though these officers have been convicted in federal court, not one national media outlet gave this story the coverage it deserved. But that's okay. At the time, reporters were busy decrying the immorality of Janet Jackson's Superbowl nipple! These are the same "journalists" who refused to cover the United States Government's secretive medical marijuana program.

I'm warning you now, this is the most disturbing recording I've ever heard in my life. But EVERYONE needs to know about this. Our war on drugs is a failure, and the national media is following a code of silence on related humans rights abuses.

The link at the top of this blog entry will open the actual audio recording of the torture (some people have to copy and paste the link into thir browser to activate the link). And a web search for "Lester Siler" will give you access to further local and blog coverage of this story. PLEASE FORWARD THIS OUT!
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2006 @ 12:04pm

ha ha ha they should fire him
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2006 @ 12:07pm

WHATS NEXT is he gonna shoot me ??? what kind of idiot would hire this guy????
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Haha, damn..., 23 Jul 2006 @ 5:41pm

Okok, slow down...
Ok, before I get serious, I have to say that is one of the funniest things I have seen in a while... Regardless of how or why or whatever, you all have to agree.

Ok, now to the serious part. Yea, the dude made a mistake. I hear him on the video talk to someone on the side asking him to check if the gun was loaded, yadda yadda. But, he never takes the mag out, so that was kinda dumb on his part, because obviously it was loaded.

Secondly, the dude made a human mistake, shit happens all the time. Should he have been more cautious given the circumstances, IE being in a class full of kids? Yeah, of course.

But we are all human and have our moments of not too brightness.

I'm in the army, and even before we get to our real units we are trained for many many MANY hours on how to properly load and undload and clear and yadda yadda. But the fact remains, that in EVERY cycle, some idiot does something stupid.

Even after I got to my first unit, and units thereafter, I have seen trained personnel do STUPID shit. Really stupid.

Humans are bound to make a mistake everyonce in a while.

Now, should the DEA have publicly released this video, probably not.. But I'm sure glad they did. Why?

Because it made me laugh.

And what's this crap about jigs and he only got that job because he was black or whatever?

Dude, tell your grandpappy to let you out of the cellar and let him in on the secret that this is the year 2006.
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David S., 17 Aug 2006 @ 7:18pm

DEA Agent really screwed
As a 20 year law enforcement veteran, I can tell you that in all of the firearms training I have attended over the years you are taught to never point a gun at anything you don't want to "destroy" and the holder of the gun is always responsible to clear the weapon for demonstrative purpose. Please let me sit on the jury. In a "tort" case, the government if it prevails can ask for their attorney fees and I suggest they do so.
What an idiot for even considering suing the government. I am sure that he violated many DEA policies and procedures and they should terminate his employment so that he cannot endanger any other members of the community. Go back to the hood where you belong.
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Jon, 20 Nov 2006 @ 11:23am

Re: Im not a government guy either...but PUNITIVE
Why should the government (aka "Taxpayers") reward this guy for his own incompetence. I have worked around firearms my entire life as a hunter, recreational shooter and through a 22 year military career. I have taught numerous classes on firearms function, maintenance and safety. I have never in all that time taken a loaded weapon into a classroom full of people, then treated the weapon with such blatant disregard. While I do sympathise with the guy for his injuries, I cannot in any way see a reason to reward him for the self inflicted wound. As to the tape, what does he expect? Are we to censor every person on the planet everytime someone does something stupid on camera? Perhaps the LAPD shoudl have confiscated the Redney King tapes and covered up that bit if police idiocy as well? The guy got hurt, but it was his own fault.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Jan 2007 @ 9:27pm

Re: DUMB-shit SWAT are EVERY WHERE!
Stupid nigger just wants to get mo' free gubbmint money.
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blow me, 31 Jan 2007 @ 8:22am

Re: shut the fuck up all of you asswipes
Now we're going to get lessons on how to post? From an asswipe who has nothing to do but read these posts all day, and respond to them in his "perfect writing" manner? Shut the fuck up asswipe! Nobody cares about this tape, this DEA agent, this issue, or your writing skills.

All of you, go get jobs.
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copsblow247, 8 Feb 2007 @ 12:00pm

Re: Re: It was JUST that stupid!
NO ONE with ANY firearms experience would EVER say that accidents like this DON'T happen to trained professionals. THAT is retarded.

NO ONE with a brain would pull the trigger on a Glock and not expect it to go off! Regardless of if they thought it was loaded or not.

After 4 years in the Marine Corps, I've seen people with incredible weapons handling skills have negligent discharges. It happens to the best of people.

After 4 years in the marine corps you have seen a lot of idiots pull the trigger when they should not have! Don't try to defend other stupid people, just because your suppose to stick together.
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copsblow247, 8 Feb 2007 @ 3:38pm

Re: duh
why are we teaching young children about gun safety anyway?

Unfortunately, to keep stupid ass people like you alive until they can grow up and prove how retarded they really are.
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synergy, 17 Feb 2007 @ 11:31pm

lame
There is no Glock model "40"...you can hear and feel a round going into the chamber...you can feel the weight of a full magazine in a gun...and he was responsible not only for the safe handeling of a his firearm, but for the safe handeling of a LOADED FIREARM infront of KIDS.

ALSO, he would have had to MANUALY lock the slide back on that gun, as the magazine wasn't empty ...your first clue that your not dealing with an empty mag. Doing so also puts an open slide in plain sight for you to see live rounds in the top of the mag.

After that, he PULLED THE TRIGGER on his Glock...why? Was he planning on teaching a room full of kids how to dissassemble his "fo'ty"? DEA probably has the 8lb triggers too!

You think it's at all acceptable, that this guy unholstered a LOADED weapon in front of KIDS, and then SHOT HIMSELF with it?

And this is who they elected to teach firearms safety to kids?

What kills me, is how he says "it's unloaded! it's unloaded!" about the Colt M4 that's been out of his sight for a while and anyone could have messed with...when he couldn't even determine that his own handgun was still loaded...the Glock has a loaded chamber indicator and a cocked indicator (the extractor, and the trigger)...the Colt M4 has neither.

He should have been charged for endangering the welfare of a minor.
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blackjack, 25 Feb 2007 @ 6:28pm

Re: lame
in addition to what you said synergy, If he had opened the action, the round would have fell out, aslo, there is actually a significant difference in the weight of a glock when a round is in the chamber with or without a magazine inside. I know personally, I had a glock for about a year before i switched to a beretta and i haven't looked back. I agree with you 100%
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Apr 2007 @ 7:43pm

Re: Im not a government guy either...
Tyshaun,
Pull your head out of your ass. It is an internal matter that I have to believe the agency has already addressed. To make it punitive towards the agency boils this lawsuit down to its core, it's all about the money. Has anyone ever asked themselves, Tyshaun, what a so-called great undercover officer like that is doing in a public forum in the community discussing drug prevention. Not only that, the agent was dressed in clothing that clearly identified him as a member of the DEA. If he was that concerned about protecting his undercover job he should have thought about that before exposing himself this way like I'm sure he has done numerous times in the past. Don't get me wrong, it was tragic but yet funny how it happened. I can only hope that he recovered physically from his wounds and is back at work. He should be grateful that a parent of one of those kids doesn't sue him for negligence or wreckless endangerment for bringing loaded weapons to a school type setting. Accidents happen so lets move on and get over it.
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rich, 22 Jun 2007 @ 5:16am

stupid dea guy
so much for the WAR ON DRUGS
even the redest redneck
in a drunk stupor
could not rival the stupidity
of that dea agent
AGAIN, YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK....
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RICH, 22 Jun 2007 @ 5:22am

NEED FOR GUN CONTROL
As Presedential candidate Dr.Ron Paul said when asked if he favored gun control: (paraphrased)
Yes, I support strict gun control on the GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES.
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Rebecca Schiel, 7 Aug 2007 @ 8:38pm

Kudos
I just want to say that I felt sympathy for this man when this happened. He was trying to teach a invaluable lesson to children. Unfortunately, he showed exactly what can happen with any weapon at any time. I mean to say, he has endless of training and the unthinkable happened. Think if he was not trained properly and a child was hurt. At least the kids will now fear weapons in general and not think of them as toys. YAY officer!
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Scott, 9 Sep 2007 @ 4:29pm

1.It was a NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE not an Accidental Discharge.
2. He did not follow several rules of gun safety including not pointing the weapon at anything you don't want to destroy (his leg).
3. He had the wherewithal to make the mistake part of the gun safety lecture - that's takes guts after just taking a .40 caliber round in the leg at point-blank range.
4. He's suing the DEA because he believes that the DEA, while using the tape to investigate the situation, leaked it on purpose for the sole purpose of ridicule. An example would be that some of his brother agents were teasing him and decided to posit it on the 'net without realizing they were compromising his life. That is a big problem. If the agent was indeed an undercover operative, his cover is now blown by the public release of the tape. It also endangers not just his life, but also his family, friends, etc. It also hurt his career.
5. EVERYONE makes mistakes. It does not matter what kind of gun it was, or what safeties it does or does not have. IN fact a Glock has three safeties, it just doesn't have a "kill switch." The only true safety is your finger.
6. The agent goofed when he forgot to take out the magazine after clearing the weapon. When he released the slide (some people have called that pulling the trigger the first time when it was not. It was releasing the slide to it's forward position), the slide moving into the forward and locked position inserted another round from the magazine into the chamber. This made the gun ready to fire. The agent then pulled the trigger, which is standard, as long as you've PROPERLY cleared the weapon, which he did not do.
7. These kinds of Negligent Discharges happen everyday to cops, civilians, everyone. It's too bad this man had this mishap occur in public. Most often these mishaps happen in private where no one finds out about it.

In general, if you are around guns enough, you will likely be involved with a Negligent Discharge one way or another. If it happens to me, hopefully I will have the fortitude to go on and use the example as how accidents happen while standing in front of a room of 50 people! Even though this guy made a mistake by not following proper procedure, it could have been a lot worse. How many of us make mistakes? ALL of us! The guy should be given a break.
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donne rudolph, 8 Mar 2008 @ 1:20am

dea agent shoots himself
I have been a firearms instructor for over twenty years with certifications from the NRA and FBI. I have taught to law-enforcement agencies, and private organizations. The first rule of gun safety is "the gun is ALWAYS LOADED" In an auto-loading pistol such as the GLOCK, you remove the magazine, lock the slide to the rear, check that the chamber is empty, and as an added precaution, keep the slide locked in the rearward position. If the "agent" was paying more attention to gun safety rather than trying to impress children with comparing his duty weapon to the same one carried by street thugs, maybe he would'nt have made an almost fatal mistake. And by the way, it was not an accident, for a gun to fire you have to intentionaly pull the trigger.
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Helen aka "boom boom", 1 May 2008 @ 3:42am

No excuse
Here is the bottom line...this guy has a callous attitude towards firearms. End of discussion. I have been shotting and handling weapons (mainly postils) since I was 9. I enjoy the sport of shooting. Everytime I pick up a weapon I cahnt a mantra in my head...safety, safety, safety. This idiot violated more basic safety principles than I could count. I used this video as a training tool for someone I am teaching to shoot. Before I ever picked up a weapon in my pupil's presence, or even contemplated allowing her to, we spent a good half hour discussing "OK/not OK." I am going to list the safety violations. (1) magazine in weapon (2) bolt closed, (3) safety off (4) don't point at something you don't intend to detsroy (of course maybe he was really mad at his foot), (5) know your backstop. That bulklet could have richoted all over the room. I am surprised it did not. Maybe his foot was at fat as his head. Gun safety needs to be taught in a controlled environment like a range. You don't lecture about it...you demonstrate. I guess he did do well in that department.

As to people who defend this moron, I can only hope that they are not using him as an excuse or justification for their own bad judgements and habits.

When you lose respect for a firearm, you lose respect for life. End of discussion.
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Win or Perish., 19 May 2008 @ 12:14pm

I strongly disagee with you sir. Yes, he did make a mistake. At the same rate, the DEA confiscated the video...Do you not agree that is was not professional of them to release it? For what reason would they release something like that? Tell me. Makes no sense at all. Something like that should be delt with "in-house". I feel that video guys should be discipline as well, for leaking the tape.
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danny, 15 Sep 2008 @ 12:21pm

Where is the evidence that DEA leaked the tape? How can the former agent successfully sue government if no proof government leaked the tape? Now he has a hole in his foot and empty pockets.
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scott, 7 Oct 2008 @ 8:12pm

wrong response
he handled himself horribly. he shot himself and endangered others. he pulled the trigger on a firearm when he was not engaged in a situation to to so. 2 jokes: that idiot and sympathy for an idiot. too bad neither of them are funny.
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FormerMarine, 23 Oct 2008 @ 3:04pm

Re: Re: It was JUST that stupid!
@ Sean - April 14th 2006
========================================================
After 4 years in the Marine Corps, I've seen people with incredible weapons handling skills have negligent discharges. It happens to the best of people.
========================================================

Hmm, I spent 5 years in the Corps and was never exposed to that level of incompetence - (an M-16 on semi would tear your foot off) - and my fellow Marines were 19 or 20 yr olds. This "expert" was 45 from the info I've garnered. The rules for handling a weapon are clear, treat them as they are deadly weapons. Don't put your finger on the trigger unless you intend to fire, Don't point the weapon at ANYTHING unless you intend to shoot it.

As a former Marine, I still remember those golden rules. He was actually active DEA and neglected them. No excuses sir, it's just pure reckless negligence on his part.
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Mr SuperMan, 12 Dec 2008 @ 9:25pm

WTF
Hmmmm... Let's see... I wonder why all the cops on this board are all for cover ups??? Hmmm... But really folks evil people(99.99% of cops) hide the truth and present a masked face (Hypocrites) to others, whether it is individually or organizationally. They should try living life in the light. Oh yea never mind that thought because then they couldnt be cops.
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Scott Armstrong Sr (Capt retired) FED LEO, 20 Dec 2008 @ 2:49pm

DEA agent not properly trained with fire arms.
Subj: Check out Of Arms and the Law:
DEA agent sues US Govt over accidental shooting tape
Date: 11/7/2007 11:56:23 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time

From: Whaler52

To: ScottyScott31, shane.armstrong@dhs.gov, shanearmstrong@sbcglobal.net, cyborg7@tampabay.rr.com, Police1582, William.Sylvan@dhs.gov, JALTON54, joeplugasu@msn.com, dpoto@cox.net, Ram1Fish2

Of Arms and the Law: DEA agent sues US over accidental shooting tape.

DOES ANY ONE KNOW WHAT THE OUT COME WAS ON THIS UN TRAINED AGENT WITH THE LAW SUIT?

I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT HE BELIEVES THAT DUE TO THE INCIDENT, AND THE FILMING, THERE OF, HIS UNDER COVER OPERATIONS TO INCLUDE HIS IDENTITY WAS BLOWN, AND HE HAS A VALID SUIT????

IF HE IS IN THAT DEEP, HE SHOULD NOT BE HOLDING CLASSES FOR CIVILIANS TO SIT IN AND LEARN FROM. (HE,S UNDERCOVER) ?? THERE WAS BABIES IN THAT ROOM!!!

NEVER SHOULD A WEAPON BE IN A BUILDING, WITH CIVILIANS.
DOES ANYONE KNOW THE NAME OF THE SEMINAR THAT WAS BEING GIVEN THAT DAY? IF SO ,PLEASE SEND TO ME.

THIS GUY SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED!

AS FOR HE IS THE ONLY PERSON IN THE ROOM QUALIFIED TO USE THE WEAPON, (HIS FEELINGS WERE HURT, ALONG WITH HIS PRIDE) HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER THEN TO HAVE FIRE ARMS INSIDE, AND HE SHOULD HAVE STOPPED THE CLASS AT ONCE TO RECEIVE MEDICAL ATTENTION.

HE WILL GET OVER THE OFFICE JOKE,S IN TIME, BUT ALL HE IS ENTITLED TO, IS WORK MANS COMP PAYMENT OF MEDICAL BILLS, AND 30 DAYS ON THE BEACH WITH OUT PAY FOR ENDANGERING OTHERS.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Scott Armstrong Sr (Capt retired/DOJ), 20 Dec 2008 @ 3:07pm

Re: RELEASING this tape was a public service
AMEN DEA, From Retired ICE, If Obama pushes for all the blacks to be in jobs, this Country is going to hell in a hand basket.
Dont get me wrong, color doesnt matter to me, what does is balance the work load by color, drop standards so some can get a passing score, and get a job. But I need someone to watch my back, my life, in their hands!
I sure hope the AUSA dint take on a law suit, I hope DEA punished the agent, I hope they sent him back to School, and if their not careful, all those people in the room, just might file a class action law suit for post dramatic stress inflection!
I bet that suit would fly! I agree with you 110%
Semper Fi/USDOJ
Whaler/Scott
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Kevin, 18 Aug 2009 @ 3:25pm

DEA Agent
First it probably was a Glock, second it probably as a 40 caliber, but the guy states it's a "glock 40" thats not correct probably a Glock 19 in a .40 caliber. I don't think it's funny he shot himself, but "stupid should hurt".
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don, 19 Nov 2009 @ 1:33pm

dea agent
ok so an accident happened but it wasnt his fault. if anything its the person who habded him the "unloaded gun" and then came back and tried to give him a bigger weapon. and when he shot himself he explained to the children how this can happen to them which in my opinion is a very good example.
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Joe, 28 Nov 2009 @ 1:38pm

Re: Difference in mentality
Wrong. The fact that this moron went into a room full of defenseless children and endangered all of their lives because of his limitless stupidity DIRECTLY INDICATES that he is a person in his organization that needs to be identified and rooted out. You argue that most doctors are killers and need their co-workers to cover up their mistakes, but that is an asinine "point" because that is assuming the majority of doctors ARE incompetent killers, which is not the case (and, in fact, is insane to consider true). This fool's actions divides the organization of which he belongs, not the fact that a video was leaked to the public. He betrayed the public trust because of his careless actions, and his humiliation is justly deserved. Society owes him NOTHING.

Dorpus, you are an amoral idiot who values withholding the truth to cover up a dangerously foolish man's actions over the lives of innocent people.
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Tim, 10 Dec 2009 @ 1:55pm

This isn't just a mistake you can laugh off. This is a fully trained (or supposed to be) government agent giving a speech about SAFETY. Someone could have been killed.
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Chris, 6 Jan 2010 @ 6:29pm

Re: It was JUST that stupid!
@Angry RiveThread

You comment that his grammar is horrible? You misspelled experience, career, maneuver and probably other words I missed even with a spell checker. People make mistakes. This guy was fired and out of a job. The correct way to handle the tape would be to confiscate it and use it for internal affairs investigations and then hold or destroy it.
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M.G. Miller, 10 Mar 2010 @ 8:11pm

No defense for this whatsoever. Don't care if you're the toughest agent in Fla. when there are bullets flying around, destination unknown, you are not "Professional" Only one person in this video shows any type of professionalism at all, and we don't see who it is. Sounds like a young lady who says with authority and clearly "PUT IT DOWN, PUT IT DOWN, WE SEE IT" She shows more common sense than the professionals handing him yet another "unloaded gun", unless you count the people at the back of the room running for their lives.
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M.G. Miller, 10 Mar 2010 @ 8:44pm

Re: Re: Re: It was JUST that stupid!
No second chances with guns. Saw a soldier shoot his foot with a .45 in 1968, near Chu-Lie, so he could be home for Christmas.
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M.G. Miller, 4 Apr 2010 @ 9:13pm

I haven't heard any news about how this has progressed. Hopefully he is waving a spatula around at a fast food, "This is the turbo burger flipper 400" I am the only one professional enough to handle the turbo flipper, then drops it on his foot. Anyone ever figure out the lesson he was trying to teach these young people? Waving a gun around, bragging, and showing off? I bet the guy wore a cape and a mask at home, waving his glock around in front of a mirror, immitating episodes of Walker Texas ranger.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2010 @ 11:06pm

Re: Re: WOW!!
you need to BUY a dictionary
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jun 2010 @ 4:25pm

kkjj
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k, 26 Jul 2010 @ 7:57am

Why didn't someone stop his presentation after he SHOT HIMSELF? You would think that someone would stop him. And what about the people handing him the guns - why would you hand a gun to a man who has just SHOT HIMSELF?
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Jon, 18 Sep 2010 @ 4:57pm

Suing the government for his mistake? HA! If he was as professional as he claimed to be then he would not have BROUGHT LIVE AMMUNITION INTO A CLASSROOM!!! That idiot has no business carrying a firearm or telling ANYONE about safety.

Complacency kills. Unfortunately, it usually kills innocents.
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M.G. Miller, 21 Oct 2010 @ 11:14pm

I like the way his hair jumps when the gun goes off. Was it the recoil, the suprise flinch, or the bullet hitting him in the foot? Good to see a pro. at work, someone please keep a camera on this guy, this is some of the best commedy that I have ever seen.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2010 @ 3:23am

Fuking stooped niger.
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debraannsena, 19 Apr 2011 @ 10:50am

only blames one self!
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Matt, 14 May 2011 @ 4:34pm

Why was the gun loaded? That makes no sense. AND in a classroom full of kids??
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BigFrank, 14 May 2011 @ 11:10pm

Another example of why affirmative action is a really bad idea.
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rob, 23 Jun 2011 @ 1:46am

Re: Re: It was JUST that stupid!
I did my 4 in the corps as an infantryman and NEVER have seen an ND happen first hand. I have heard of it, but NEVER seen it and I, like you I'm sure, was around loaded weapons 24/7 overseas.
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Gunpro, 1 Aug 2011 @ 11:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Difference in mentality
U disgust me asshole they should have shot this dumbshit in the head with his own gun for punishment
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Gun pro, 1 Aug 2011 @ 11:37pm

Lucky he didn't have an ad in a childs brain I'm just a hunter I have guns I've trained many PPL how to use them safely this guy is a disgrace to the dea
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Gunpro, 1 Aug 2011 @ 11:42pm

It's funny how all of u try to take up for this guy and how u write so much to prove your point I could have given presentations like that for a lifetime with no ads hope this jerk off works a mc donalds now they like inept PPL
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Brenda West, 1 Oct 2011 @ 8:12pm

LAUGHTER
He needs his HEAD examined for Brain Cell CORRISION! Too bad his AIM was at his FOOT instead of his HEAD. I bet he went WAH.Wah..WAH all the way home too. Just like the Nursery Rhyme! He gets ZERO sympathy from me for being a ZERKbutt+*!
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Mark, 14 Oct 2011 @ 3:06pm

"laughing it off"
The reason it's not being "laughed off" is because he could have shot a child and killed them. I have been handling firearms for 20 years and have yet to have a single negligent discharge, and when I am presenting firearms to people or other people are around me I am even MORE cautious to make sure the weapon is empty and in a safe condition. This guy put a room full of kids at risk and was blatantly negligent. Anyone who handles firearms knows that the VERY FIRST thing you do when someone hands you a weapon is visually inspect the chamber and magazine to ensure that the weapon is empty. This guy failed to do so despite knowing better and put lives in jeopardy. This sort of incompetence is unacceptable and definitely worth being fired over.
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Lee Wiles, 8 Feb 2012 @ 7:45am

Re: RELEASING this tape was a public service
Finally someone with balls enough to tell it like it IS.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Gunpro, 1 Mar 2012 @ 12:00am

He looks like a Jamaican pussy someone give this guy a helmut and a nerf gun so he can give lessons to 4 yr olds
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Gunpro, 1 Mar 2012 @ 12:06am

Actually he did not know better or it would not have happend like I said he's a fucktard.
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Joe Geer, 26 May 2012 @ 8:01pm

Suck it up
Dude,

You blew it ! Not off, but you blew it. There was some training value and not all was lost, exception being your pride. Nothing amusing about being injured. Never dismiss the basics which you obviously have but neglect on your part. So get over your pride, laugh at yourself and get on with your duty you signed up for.

1SG Joe Geer, Retired
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Charles, 7 Jan 2014 @ 8:00am

Re: Idiot with a gun !
I am not so much worried about the DEA agent shooting himself in the foot as I am worried about is the people that this idiot is sent out to protect .
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Really?, 23 Feb 2014 @ 2:14pm

Response to: Bogamol on Apr 14th, 2006 @ 7:06pm
Internal matter? With 30 plus members of the public present? If he had shot the toddler that the guy was holding in his lap, not 10' from him, what then?
DEA, and reckless behaviour with a firearm in a crowded room? 1st rule of gun safety...a
ALWAYS treat a weapon as if it is loaded.
At my concealed carry permitting class they showed this video. Made a big impression. Glad they showed it. It made a lasting imptession on everybody.
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truth, 21 Feb 2016 @ 2:53pm

Re: Difference in mentality
It's that kind of argument that protects corrupt cops from justice. They took the job. If they can't handle it then quit, don't baby them and give them special privileges. Then they are worthless for what they were hired for.
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Nostromov (profile), 9 May 2016 @ 1:47pm

Re: Re: Difference in mentality
All those kids should sue him, then, for attempted murder, LOL
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Nostromov (profile), 9 May 2016 @ 1:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Difference in mentality
That's the thing, the police wouldn't let us live the way you speak
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N9NJA, 29 May 2016 @ 4:58am

Re:
Everything recorded by any employee of the government should be public record.
[ link to this | view in thread ]

Man Says GTA Made Him Think He Could Outrun Cops

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