Philips Patents Pissing Off TV Viewers
from the yeah,-that-will-go-over-well dept
It's hard to figure out where to start pointing out just how ridiculous this story is. Philips has patented a system for inserting flags into television broadcasts that would prevent you from changing the channels during commercials or prevent you from fast forwarding if watched on a DVR. Yes, this is a "feature" that not a single person in this world would want -- except perhaps folks like former TV exec Jamie Kellner, who once said that people who went to the bathroom during commercial breaks were "stealing" TV. To deal with the fact that this is a feature no one wants, Philips has the positively lovely suggestion that when such "forced" advertisements were playing, a note can pop up on the screen giving you the opportunity to pay extra to change a channel or fast forward. It's not hard to imagine how that would go over. Who would actually buy a TV that had such functionality included? What will they work on next? A couch that won't let you stand up and walk away during commercial breaks? Or how about a toilet seat that won't open during commercials? However, more to the point, why is this patentable? The idea isn't unique or innovative. It's pretty obvious. It's just absolutely pointless.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
now if they...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I hope the failure of both Blue Ray and HD DVD will start to wake people up.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Who would think of this? I thought they quit doing lobotomies in developed countries long ago.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Sign Me Up!
I truly hope that this "feature" does NOT make it to the mainstream. If it does, expect a new market to evolve--commercial free spinoff providers (along with fresh cracking challenges).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Yay American Corporate Logic.
Keep your grubby policies in your own country PLEASE.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Yay American Corporate Logic.
Additionally, the logic used to describe not watching commercials as stealing TV speaks to someone who is trying to SELL commercials to PAY for the television shows that are aired.
Although I dont support that statement, it really sounds like a (moronic) frustrated exec trying to sustain thier (fat) profit margins.
Phillips is clearly wasting thier R&D and legal money on this. Look at what is happening with DRM and music.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Yay American Corporate Logic.
Besides, greed and idiocy are international. :)
Apparently, making an honest 10% isn't enough for anybody anymore.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Yay American Corporate Logic.
just wait until you have sat through a British 10 min commercial break, I'd pay to get away!
why do you think this is an "american thing", you need to pull your head out and look around pal, I (for lack of choice) pay 35 GBP ($50+) per month for British "sky" sat tv that is LOADED with commercials, now thats a rip-off, especially since most of the tv shows they play have been taken from the US free networks anyway (friends, American Idol, Scrubs, E.R., West Wing, you name it, I have to pay for it), yes I know they have has to pay for the rights to show it and thats fine (isn't that why I pay them) but then to top it off, this is what really bits my ass...ets, the Brits make you pay $200 per year for a TV license. yes in the UK you must have a license to use a TV. now chicken boy, peck on that for a while!!!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Yay American Corporate Logic.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Flipping through the channels, come across a "FLAGED" channel that's on a commercial, and you cant leave it to contune surfing tell the movie comes back on.
What's next, TVs that prevent you from turning them off ?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
great for a hacker
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: great for a hacker
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
TV Comercials
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I'm getting paid soon
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
phillips crap
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Get used to it: Alaska Airlines anyone?
I've told this to more than one flight attendant, but then they're clearly not calling the shots at the corporate level.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Obvious answer to this issue
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Obvious answer to this issue
Yeah! Just like the V-chip! Oh... Wait...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Ah ah ah --- Don't touch that dial !!!
I thought, what -- automatic shackels on the recliner?
I must be psychic.
I'm SCARED!!!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I can see it now
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
this will never make it into production
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I've got the best idea...
Do like I do.
Don't WATCH TV.
Solves all the problems, and gives me more time to write and read blogs. I've saved roughly a grand so far in cable charges, and I didn't buy uncounted items I didn't need with money I don't have. My girlfriend shed her cable and DVDHDTADHD set and she loves the freedom too.
A neccessary evil? Bullshit. If you think your choices don't include turning the motherfucker off, they have you right where they want you.
Perfect.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I like it!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
disputed patent novelty
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
itnenrtneret
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Stupid
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
LOL
how would a feature built into the TV stop a signal being sent to the cable box, or satellite box from changing the channel on the box?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
TV as a whole
Now you pay for the TV and see the comercials during programs on cable channels, as well as, before, after, & breaks. I don't know how many cable channels do this, but almost everyone that I have seen do it. They run along the bottom advertizing other programs.
There are more than the three original broadcasting stations on non cable tv now, so you at least can avoid seeing a State of the Union address if you want to, but now even PBS is full of comercials.
Some are exactly like the broadcast stations. Whatever happened to the simple 'This program is supported by (list of people, foundations, corporations, etc)... & members like you'?
Now it is brought to you by, (comercials)... & members like you
Give me a break!
So if you pay for TV you still have comercials on almost all of the channels & if you pay more you can have a couple more mostly comercial free channels, pay more a few more, etc.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The Phillips Patent
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Hmmmm
1. People watch commercials willingly once a year
2. When? The Superbowl
3. Why? They ads have effort put into them
4. How do we get people to watch ads on a normal day-to-day? I hope you can answer this part.
Yes, superbowl ads may cost mroe, but with a little bloody effort... seeing a car going down a mountain road makes me go *switch channel*. Seeing guys run around a dog race track and barking makes me chuckle and watch it a few times at least.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Another "Philips Sucks" story
Accordingly, I called the number listed. I was first advised to use a disk cleaner. I purchased a Philips disk cleaner, but it did not solve the problem. (The first and second times I called, I was at first advised that the purchase date was back in 2005 and so no warranty would apply. I then was able to confirm my purchase date and the representatives “updated” the information and told me it was under warranty.)
After I advised that the disk cleaner did not work, I was given a fax number to fax my proof of purchase and I did so; I was told the player would be replaced. My letter attaching the proof of purchase is included. After I faxed it, I received a call asking me to re-fax it and I did so. I then heard nothing for two weeks. Today, I called to find out the status of matters. I was told two inconsistent things: First, I was told it was under warranty but that only parts were warranted and it would cost me $40.00 for a replacement. Secondly, and obviously inconsistently, I was told that my proof of purchase from Wal-Mart was insufficient, even though the store specifically printed it out for me as my “proof of purchase.” The underlying message was, “We are not going to do anything for you and even if we did, it would cost you forty dollars.” I told the representative that I could buy a brand new player for that price and that I have no incentive to ever purchase a Philips product again. I have all sorts of electronics that are still working fine after years. I do not think it unreasonable to expect that a device will work for more than three months!
I wrote to the CEO of Philips and heard nothing.
DO NOT BUY PHILIPS. If something goes wrong, they will not treat you right.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Good LOrd.
Anywhere else, and well, we ain't BUYING it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
further to Anonymous Coward's comments
Anyway, 3 things can happen next if this is implemented,
1) Viewers will boycott this, and things will revert back
2) Viewers will decide to use cracks or DVRs without the commercials (which will be easy to come by as the flags are just what the crackers would be looking for), and things will revert back
3) Viewers stop watching TV: Society revolutionized!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: further to Anonymous Coward's comments
Or the police will take it as an excuse to start kicking in doors and arresting people under the DMCA.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Give me a break!!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Phillips
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
WTF????
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Forget the patent -- which I agree is moronic --
IMO, this is actually an important step forward in something I personally can't have soon enough. That is, shows which are freely available from broadcaster's sites immediately following their airtime. iTunes is charging $2.00 for shows from some broadcast outlets w/o commercials. IMO this is about $1.00 too much. This "new" functionality would allow a $1/show non-commercial version and a free commercial version to easily coexist.
The choice of which of them to "purchase" -- or not to purchase either -- remains mine.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Just Power Cycle your TV
If you want to hear Philips' side of the story, contact:
Philips Global PACS Business Unit
Philips Partners4Profit
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Locking people into commercial breaks
Is there a "press this button, be charged $1" over-ride? Or an "I really want to change the channel" option that'll let you switch channels, but won't let you back to the channel that had the ads until you've missed two minutes of the program after the ad break?
Enquiring minds want to know.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
open your eyes
Try it like this... Free cable... or free dish network... with manditory commercials. Newer programs will have what is called guarenteed advertising... a program will have an algorithm, which is checked when you press play on your dvr... if the comercials are gone the algorithm is incorrect and it won't play... The flags are not there and then gone like for commercial managemant currently used...
comercial applications are endless and ammount to a lot of services which are not available now...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
F 2 the "Phill" Down w/the "ups"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
DVD Region Codes
Would you vote in favor of a technology burned into commercial DVDs that made it so that you could only play a DVD you bought legally in the country you bought it? Well, you have.
EVERY DVD player manufacturer, including the DUTCH Philips, and all the others, put special DRM coding into their DVD players which scans the DVD region code, and will not play DVDs from another region.
So, if your aunt from Germany sends you a DVD, you can't play it. Or if I buy some French DVDs (full price)for my kid in France, I can't play them on my US machine.
How did this happen? Hollywood wants it, so the hardware manufacturers gave it to them. They all figure that consumers are pigeons, and disorganized, but the media houses are organized and important, so we'll give them what they want, and screw our customer.
If you think you can kill the commercial flag idea by simply not buying Philips, I hope that in this case that's true. But big media isn't stupid. If this think were ever to emerge for real, it would be from ALL the hardware guys at the same time, not just one. And like lemmings, most consumers would just go along with it.
Oh, what's that? My daughter wants to watch Babar? Gotta run, I have a DVD player that needs to be hacked.
ex: http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: DVD Region Codes
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Forgot that bit in the piece above...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
To hell with this BS!
With computers and monitors going the way they are, it will be more econnomical to just use a computer to watch TV, movies, or play music. It's one piece of equipment that takes up less space and performs just as well if not better than home theatre systems that take up and entire entertainment center. I highly doubt the PC industry will create such a thing.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The Economics of it won't work out
So, if this absurd feature of forced advertising does come to pass, there will be someone who will enter the market to cater to consumer demand for optional commercial viewing, buy the rights to some of the more popular shows and start a new channel which should have a readymade consumer base to make a quick buck if only because the current players in their corporate greed allowed a new player to gain a foothold in the market.
Also, I have profound faith in the dubious adaptive ingenuity of my fellow humans and would expect them to come out with a flurry of inventions/devices (like Tivo) to counter this unwanted feature and bypass the system.
On the flip side, isn't it possible that Phillips and the rest of the electronic consumer durables industry may have done this to come up with these "ingenious devices" themselves (through a subsidiary company) and in doing so will not only expanded the current electronics market into an alternate complementary device market which won't have the cut-throat competition of the TV market, therefore driving up their profit margins, but will also milk the consumers for what they're worth.
America is the world's largest consumer driven market .... and the consumer here is the King ..... "In Theory !!"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Great Idea
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Commercials
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Network XXIII
Of course this would also make room for some of the people in the show like "Reggie" who was the pirate TV punker. I've wondered if people aren't gonna do the same with analog TV right now...collect all the old transmitters, etc. and broadcast pirate TV for those who are rebels and don't care to move to HDTV. This would be somewhat achievable with a CATV setup but wouldn't be nearly as illegal which of couse spoils the fun of it all.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Now, if you will excuse me, I need to go collect my billion dollars.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Forced TV Commercials
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
funny story...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Response by Phillips to my complaint
Please understand that it is always our intention to invent technology and products to make life easier for our customers. The patent described in the various press articles is not used in any product, nor do we have such plans.
Let me give you some background on the invention. Some years ago our inventors brainstormed about watching movies without commercials and many ideas came out. Most of these inventions are about detection, advancing and skipping of commercials. This particular invention also came out of those brainstorm sessions and should be seen in the light of pay-tv and recorded programs.
As said, at this moment the technology is not and will not be implemented in any of our products. We apologize for any trouble this news might have caused you.
Regards
Caroline Kamerbeek
Director of Communications
Philips Intellectual Property & Standards
P.O. Box 220, 5600 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Phone office: +31 (0)40 27 44232
Fax: +31 (0)40 27 43489
E-mail: caroline.kamerbeek@philips.com
Intranet: pww.ips.philips.com
Internet: www.ip.philips.com
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Response by Phillips to my complaint
But why bother Philips TV's dont operate much longer than 22 Months and then they are junk. I have 3 of the 32" models that failed between 14 and 22 months and the cost to repair is more than they are worth.
After extensive time with Philips tech. help I was given a 58 day run around to incompetant repair shops and forced to pay cash up front for even a service calll. So much for extended warrenty I paid for.
Goodbye Phillps you have sunken even lower in quality than RCA.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
So When Can I Change the Channel
If I were a TV exec, I'd run the tag constantly and anyone who changed to my channel could never change away.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Jess...you're not the only one getting the runarou
When you say EXTENSIVE...that doesn't even scratch the surface.
Like you, Jess, she has had nothing but a runaround for almost 6 months for a lousy $124.00 TV, which is a lot of money to her since she is a 3rd year public school teacher making just over minimum wage. She has no time for these repeated phone calls that go absolutely nowhere nor does she have the time to run all over Charlotte only to go through the same hassle.There seems to be no way of getting any answers or a replacement. For all that's been spent for the repairs, they could have replaced the TV.
A side comment. Shortly after she purchased her TV we also purchased a 27" flatscreen....which worked for about 2 weeks then the color kept fading in and out. We promptly returned it for a Samsung...which works great and has a terrific picture.
We will never purchase another thing that says Philips, nor will be recommend Philips, and plan to tell as many people as possible about their worthless service!!!...not to mention the lousey TV!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
DMCA at work
I have a hard time finding good products to buy; if they don't fall apart in no time then they are not useful to me. They are more often useful to the manufacturer not me. Why can't a cell phone let you record your own ring for example? It is just like when Sony kept us from having a DVD burner for 5 years or whatever, and by that time they were too small to backup a PC, drives were much cheaper, and the DMCA/protection would not let you copy anything to them anyway (waiting for blueray are you?). What if you want to copy your DVD so you can also use it in your car or weekend place, etc.? Tough. I am amazed at how many people buy iPods, I have no use for one...then the music industry wonders why they lose near 10% of their business every year!?! Everything I learned in business school they do just the opposite. More people do other things and they lose, but somehow still afford to pay billions to lawyers to make customers even more hostile...or hire hookers for congress I am not sure.
Heck I figured I would be able to cheaply control everything in my house with my PC by now, what a pipe dream...all this technology is only used to raise one of your monthly bills not do anything helpful for you.
Samsung? I guess you didn't get one of their miniDV cameras with the Sony chip in it that died after a few hours of use? I did, it was over $100 to buy one and put it in myself. They would not warranty it, at least worthless Sony did and now they had the exploding batteries too. Samsung SD23, it's all over the net. I have my ticket into their repair place and I never got a thing in return.
Everyone patents everything here now because they are allowed to. Disney built their business on Grimm fairlytales and now they patent all their stuff for 90 years! It is rediculous. The Phillips Company has a ton of products they will not even bring to the US because of our outrageous legal system, many companies will not. And who do you think pays for it...yeah, you do. You pay for every lawyer, pay for every lack of technology/usefulness in any product you buy. Just another great job our government is not doing....just like an energy policy, SS, etc, etc, etc...nearly everything that directly affects me. Captive TV would be no surprise to me. Oh, and our cable just went up 100% for base and 50% for expanded.
Don't forget the movie houses are going down hill just like the music industry. They make way more on DVD now. Those are some brilliant business plans when you consider that every year population grows. DOH! IMO our government does not have to help out the losers, that would get rid of them faster. We are getting way too much protectionism allowing these things to happen.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Phillips large tv
failed Jan. 2006 (replace complete chassis $602.00)
failed March 2007 Same problem
LET THE BUYER BEWARE
DONT BUY ANYTHING PHILLIPS
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Philips new patent.....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Piece of Junk
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Plilips quality sucks
Thanks for listening to my rant
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Plilips quality sucks
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
T V ADDS
or by any products thay advertise.Down with philips
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I don't feel sorry for the networks
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Phillips worked for me
I've been researching TVs as I'm looking to upgrade to a 1080p and have come across similar message boards just like this for EVERY brand. Sony, Samsung, Hitatchi, etc. etc. Everysing one of them is filled with people saying they would never buy another (fill in a brand here). I guess the only conclusion I can come up with after reading all of these threads is just to not buy a single tv ever again because nobody makes a good one.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
thank goodness
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
MY PHILIPS TV
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
My patent
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
modern tv's, modern technology
Same with tv's. I still use my 21" Sony Trinitron - I think it's 13 years-old now. I did notice a huge difference fitting new top-line cables (Swedish Supra, bought half-price in a sale) I do recommend spending cash on good cables. The resolution is about 900 by 720, the contrast is better than any plasma, as is the brightness, the refresh rate is so fast there isn't a number for it, there's no lag at all! The picture is great! I look at LCD and plasma tv's all the time, yes, the big screens look great, the Trinitron is a little small playing widescreen DVD's, but I see no need to spend the money when the Trinitron is still working. To my mind newer doesn't mean better, a lot of the old stuff worked very well. My Samsung DVD didn't work very well recording from VCR to DVD, but I found the 3 graphics cards weren't firmly pushed together. It also ran hellish hot even in standby, but I've cured that by glueing ribber-feet to the underside, to raise the unit one and a half inches and allow much better ventilation. The DVD runs quiet cool now. A guy I used to work with now works for an electronics outlet and says to buy only a big name, Pioneer, Panasonic, Sony, the rest are crap in comparison. Or buy cheap and simple, even an older, lesser, make was better a couple of years ago, things are moving too fast for many manufacturors to keep up, the development costs too much, they cut corners.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]