Law Introduced To Ban Social Networks And IM From Schools And Libraries
from the for-the-children,-of-course... dept
We've been talking about the recent rash of bad moves by government officials where the rationale is always "to protect the children," and today we have yet another one. It's no secret that some schools have chosen to ban social networks like MySpace out of a misplaced fear concerning what the site is being used for. However, the new legislation introduced today would specifically require any schools and libraries that receive federal money to completely ban social networking and instant messaging offerings from their computers. It's an extension of the controversial law that required libraries to put web surfing filters in place. Except, this time, instead of just blocking supposed pornography, they need to block social networking sites and chat sites. Reading the description in the bill of social networking sites, it appears that many blogging sites could be included as well ("a commercially operated website that allows users to create web pages or profiles that provide information about themselves and are available to other users.") That's pretty broad language, and would basically ban a number of perfectly legitimate and educational websites. Of course, this is all to "protect the children," because of a few fear mongering stories about bad people who have used these systems to prey on children. No one is denying that those people are out there and have used these systems. But, banning the sites in schools and libraries not only isn't the answer, it actually is likely to make the situation worse. In schools and libraries, at least, adults can monitor the students while helping to educate them about the dangers online, rather than pretending they don't exist. This law doesn't protect the children -- it takes away the responsibility of teaching them how to be safe online.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Yeah right.
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Re: Yeah right.
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Really, why?
Tools -> Internet Options -> Connenction Settings -> manual proxy and insert IP.
Plus, it's not like we're trying to bypass the system to look at porn or *OMGOSH* look at criminal myspace pages. It's just that we have an internet system that isn't being used and when we're not doing anything (all the time) we just wanna surf. How is it that different from being at home? Will we somehow become incapable of correct judgement because we're at school? I don't think so. Pull your head out of your ass and respect us kids. We probably know more about computers than these silly politicians.
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Re: Really, why?
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Re: Re: Really, why?
Please try and say something that would have made a point, because you saying that I'm ignorant and stupid doesn't make me that. Plus your last two sentences make you biased.
Oh and I'm sorry I go to school to sit on my ass and watch a teacher who knows less about web design than I do explain the most basic things like how to use a . I personally don't like myspace either, but there's not alot of options at school. Unless you don't know what a current high school is like.
And I would love to have a politician's head up my ass, preferrably Bush, so that I may squeeze my buttocks and choke them to death. Have a nice day sir.
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Re: Re: Re: Really, why?
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Re: Re: Re: Really, why?
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nice one dork
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Re: Re: Re: Really, why?
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Re: Re: Really, why?
They don't understand that all of this is stupid and pointless. I myself go to a school where they use the "Dreded" Websense. It's a joke how easy it is to get around. At first we used one of our friend's cgi-proxy to bypass it. When the teachers started to complain he took it down and I did a google for "proxy list". Although they blocked a large amount of them, I found a list and an Ip that I could use. Tools -> Internet Options -> Connenction Settings -> manual proxy and insert IP. Plus, it's not like we're trying to bypass the system to look at porn or *OMGOSH* look at criminal myspace pages. It's just that we have an internet system that isn't being used and when we're not doing anything (all the time) we just wanna surf. How is it that different from being at home? Will we somehow become incapable of correct judgement because we're at school? I don't think so. Pull your head out of your ass and respect us kids. We probably know more about computers than these silly politicians.
-----original reply-----
Acording to your brilliant logic, when your car is parked and you are not using it, I could just borrow it as long as i bring it back. After all, I'm just driving it like you would ? Someone should put a politician's head up your ass. Your an aragont ignorant kid who doesn't realize that you are at school to learn and not be entertained. Try doing some learning instead of surfing. Myspace is just a bunch of people that feel they are so great that the rest of the world really cares about what they are doing, or how they look in their picture or what kind of music they like.
-----my reply-----
first, let teh moron be a moron, second, as long as there is a filter, there will be a bypass. and i think the connection is more like, if we are going to do it anyway, and there is no way you can stop us, then leave us the ******** alone, and think with your brain and not your wallet...or at least my veiw on this. and just because a person is under the legal age of 18, and therefore considerd a child (which is foolish in my opinion), and in school, are they not just socializing online? the truth is, you ban something, whoever is banned from it will want it more, enough to bypass, and the logic fails, on both sides. Can't stop it all. They are kids, teach them to learn, and guess what, OMIGAWD! THAYRLEARNING! HOLY ***********! in short, all wrong, injust fail...! law and rule fail, kids suceed. Law is the wooden fortress, kids, the termites and wood-cutter ants. and again, kids arn't looking at porn, they are chatting with other kids.
and most people on myspace are just looking for attn, getting all the 'friends' they can. but look enough, you might find a actual person with a personality of their own. enough ranting, goodbye ppl with nothing better to do
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Re: Re: Re: Really, why?
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Re: Re: Really, why?
About your eloquent comments- "Someone should shove a politician's head up your ass" - "Your an aragont ignorant kid who doesn't realize that you are at school to learn and not be entertained."
How having the head of a politician, in one's head or in other, less comfortable places, is truly beyond me. You seem to be assuming all politicians are, if not omniescent, well-versed in all areas of knowledge and the wisest of beings. I assure you, this is not the case. This is nowhere near the case.
I would take your comments a tad more seriously were they not typed in poor grammar with poor spelling, to say nothing of vulgar language- I may be just an 'aragont', ignorant child of fifteen years, but I do know how to spell and form sentences correctly.
I also disagree with your statement- that I and many others are at school to learn, not to be entertained. I wish this was more the case, but you are sadly mistaken. Counselors and administration, afraid we are 'over-scheduling' ourselves, have made it mandatory to have one free period out of eight, one which cannot be replaced by a normal, educational class. There is not always work for me to do during these periods, and it is at these times that I turn to checking MySpace, among other things, though I have to go to a proxy server to do so.
I am aware that schools are doing this for our (the students') own good, but it's not needed, nor effective. Besides, in the grand scheme of things, I can think of a great deal of things more important.
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Re: Re: Really, why?
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Re: Re: Really, why?
i agree, you are at school to learn...but what about the kids who are offspring of teachers, right now, im typing on a school computer because im stuck in school waiting for my mother to get done...i have absolutely nothing to do because of the blocks my school brilliantly put up...and because of those blocks, you cant do any research of worth because almost everything has one little detail that gets it blocked...im a kid...i have to deal with these blocks...you, are a bunch of adults who saw the world and were frightened, so you decided you would shelter your kids...but, you didnt realize that this would screw them over in life...they get out of high school, go to college, and fail because they cant deal with the stress and reality they have never been introduced to.
now, you saw that school is for learning and learning only...okay...thats fine, blocks are not required to keep kids learning...just a good teacher...
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Re: Re: Really, why?
but, if you want to block a web site, block dating web sights, these are the ones where liittle girls who are lost for love or however you may say it, go, and put out thier info for some freak to see. these web sites should be blocked...and i will admit that porn can also be blocked because thier is no need for that anywhere in a school...but myspace and a lot of other sites that get blocked have no standing reason to be blocked.
goodbye.
fuck you.
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Re: Re: Re: Really, why?
Is it truly poor parenting or poor listening or just flat defiance on the child's part?
The moment you become immune to something in the outside (of your body) world then you fail to see it and your vigilance becomes weak.
What learning comes out of Myspace?
PS. I agree with the dating sites being blocked. I also agree that computer use during lunch is fine for Myspace but what is so bad about going outside and getting air and exercise and talking to flesh and blood people?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Really, why?
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Re: Re: Really, why?
Then there's libraries. I don't think it's the librarian's job to stop you from playing games, they set time limits and as long as one follows them it should not be a problem.
But the most important thing is this: It is not within the government's purview to control what we see and do online even if it's only at schools and libraries. Now they say no social networking sites, tomorrow they'll say no unpatriotic sites, next week they'll say no sites containing political dissent. We accept this it'll be a little easier to accept that.
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Re: Really, why?
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i hate the gouverment!
please think in advantage when you make those types of decisions.
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Kids
If these children don't know what they're doing - they could do some damage to the machines that they're trying to access from. Not permanent, but I certainly think that changing the internet settings on IE would stump MOST librarians.
They'll over compensate when they get home - they'll forget their homework because they have to catch up on all the messages/comments received while away.
...this is bad. But, in all fairness - if these are government computers, then they are more than able to block whichever sites they chose - they are their computers.
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Re: Kids
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Re: Kids
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Re: Kids
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just one of those things i can't believe is even being considered.
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Re:
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Even school kids need to learn that there are dangerous people on the Internet, the same as anywhere else. The Internet is (at least to a limited degree) a reflection of the real world. There's no point in pretending we can make it safe. If we do, not only will the kids hack around the filters or whatever, the predators will move to other places to prey on the computer illiterate kids too.
Sure, there's a problem. But blocking MySpace and similar sites won't solve it. There were Internet predators long before there was MySpace.
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Re: Tom
"This law doesn't protect the children -- it takes away the responsibility of teaching them how to be safe online."
Beautiful quote by Mike.
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For you to say its pointless, would be like saying, "We can't stop terrorrist so lets do nothign about it.". Would you really like to live in a world like that? Life is a beautiful place. As humans advance and become more in control of their lives, we can start to live a more peacful and fun place to live.
My point is, its people like you that is slowing our progress down. I understand your mentality isn't your fault, and is usually the parents fault. Your parnets probably didn't teach you enough about being considerate to others and appreciate life a little bit more. As for me, I was lucky. My parents were not the greatest parents of all time, but I used my brain and unserstood the world I lived in.
I'm sure you havn't gotten there in your life yet. Rest assure, if you just use your brain to think and be a little more open minded about things, you'll end up being a contributor to having the best life possible.
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Re: Tom
On another note, please don't call me a "fucking moron" and question how my parents raised me. I don't recall you being there when I was raised. I'm trying to agree to a point in which Mike has made in that passing laws like this don't fix the problem, they only help make it worse by giving parents a false sense of security. The best way to protect our children is to teach them the proper way to handle themselves. You sound like you want to hold your kids hand through their entire life so that when they are on their own they fall flat on their face. I have seen it too many times.
To disagree on some points you stated. First of all being my mentality. I fail to see how you can tell my mentality through my opinion. I won't go so low as to question your mentality through your posts such as a one liners to call someone an asshole. Another is that terrorism is a whole other topic and we can scream and yell about that when an article comes up on it, but there's no terrorism in Mike's news.
Most of your post was to tell me that I'm not using my brain and thus, an idiot. Well if that's the best you can come up with, good for you, but it has failed to damage my pride in the least.
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But the other thing is: this law affects any school given federal money - doesn't this include state universities? If not, ignore this part. Campus computers are meant to be for anything students want (barring porn of couse), it's free usage and besides they are paying 'student fees' to have access to computers.
My point regardless, is that this bill is way too vague. These social sites aren't more dangerous, it's just trying to control what kids view, and it just happens to be one of the most popular.
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Re: free speach
personally if a school chooses to ban a site then it probobly has a reason, whether we like it or not, if however the pain in the *** beurocrates in Washington DC make that choice for our schools then I have issues with it. and will be sure to vote against any f***** N** that votes it in. and I am sure that with over a million users on myspace I am almost certain they have a voice in politics.
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free speech
too bizarre
I cant believe this comes from a country that lets people carry fire arms.
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Re: free speech
"The courts have ruled that minors have First Amendment rights, and that includes the right to access sexual material not legally deemed "harmful to minors." (Speech that depicts [in words or pictures] sexual conduct in a manner that is patently offensive under contemporary community standards of what is appropriate for minors; appeals to the prurient interest of minors; and taken as a whole lacks serious literary, scientific, artistic or political value for minors."
http://users.rcn.com/kyp/nwumenin.html
This is in Boston referring to a public library installing a filter. I don't know if it would apply to school though. Public library is that, public, and you can't restrict information legally on a public system. But then is school the same as a library? I'm confused.
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Free Speech
http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_stud.html
It looks like they can and may pass a bill that can censor students at school. Even though students have free speech, they can still be censored by the school. See no evil, do no evil.
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What a Great Idea
I think that the IRS should investigate the finances of MySpace, and hopefully they will go down.
It is even worse than members of Congress sitting around being official and discussing the Whizzinator.
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Re: What a Great Idea
That said, I myself have a MySpace account. What I often do with it, of course, is mercilessly mock everyone on my "friends" list for using MySpace. Almost all of which are people I know personally and see regularly. I originally got an account because almost everyone I knew had an account, so it seemed like a good idea. Little did I know :)
I couple things I wanted to address in your post:
"over-priced website"
um, its free. :)
"What the f*** is "EMO"
Fear not, for I shall enlighten you. "Emo" is basically the bulk of MySpace users :) Also anyone who writes shitty poetry that uses the following words at least once per sentence, no fewer than 50 times per poem: lament, loathe, soul, darkness, bitter, agony, despair, misery, anguish, pain, suffer, woe, hate, death, love, sultry, angel, rose, acrid and nihilism. Nihilism is a good one because it comes up all the time in normal conversations. (you may recognize that from Maddox)
"Emo" is short for "emotional"
Have fun, and be careful not to make sweeping generalizations! :)
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------!
--------------------------------------.
Americans are scary.
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Idiotic corrupt American politicians, taking freedoms away daily.
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Corrupt
Why go to iraq? why have the biggest defense system in the world , why let people carry guns?
They kill no? , why isnt it illeagal for children to walk around the block? , they could see crime/accidents that could leave them traumatized... , ban cars.. ban cycling , ban eating junk food ,they can all cause things that could cause "death" they are not banned because america is "Free" but whl maintaining that image of freedom they are slowly taking it away behind your backs
the whole system seems to be corrupt...
Anyway sorry for my english(im Spanish)
But i think you guys should think a bit...
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Re: Corrupt
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this is all crazy
We teens sometimes have time where we are told to go to the school library because we have no class, at these times we offten have no homework either, what do we do? we come to the computer with free time, we want to do what we would do at home. Weither it be on myspace, xanga,livejournal, or any other "blogging" site we will stay safe. as offten as "they" find ways to block our blogs "we" will find ways back on to them.
yes, some ignorant, immature,pathetic teens use these site to start longdistant "relationships" if that's what you can call them, but with all of the concerne for that in the media the majority of "us" are more intellegant than that. See all that we do on our blogs is rant, we vent out anything on our minds so that we can focus better on other things. I honestly dont care if they keep all the sites blocked or not, I only use them occasionally, but instant messanger is a different issue. sometimes we have friends who refuse to come to school, or are home sick, having access to instant messanger is helpfull because we can contact these students. I know it's a stretch but having IM access can help bring people to school.
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Re: this is all crazy
"yes, some ignorant, immature,pathetic teens use these site to start longdistant "relationships" if that's what you can call them, but with all of the concerne for that in the media the majority of "us" are more intellegant than that"
I hope that you are not trying to tie yourself to that more "intelligent" group.
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A large amount of youth looking into technology news and rumors... the same thing a lot of the older people are doing.
SEEMS to me that these kids are keeping their minds open and watching what's going on.
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Also filters are a good thing keeping bad out but also the kids then have something meaningfull to do I have learned alot over the years trying to break things like this... granted we are training hackers but none the less we are still stimulating the minds of our youth isnt that the Goal in school?
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what the hell is wrong with these people?
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lets keep the keep the kids away from the computers! For the Kids!
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No law will solve the problem
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Irony
The irony being that many of my colleagues in the library field have their own blogs or blogs for their libraries and work with live reference services using chat software.
Speaking as an IT librarian, please remember that many of us are very conversant with computer technology and first amendment rights. And we strongly believe that the American Library Association's Freedom to Read statement covers all forms of human communication, not just books.
Have a great day.
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more knee jerking in politics
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Great Firewall
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Oh noes!
In my day we didnt have these blogs or myspace or messengers. We still came up with ways to goof off at school.
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Texting is like...cool...like totally...like...OMG
No doubt cell phone companies are behind this...
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First Shot in the
More about the "Suburban Agenda" at my blog, here.
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Social networks at school? Bah!
The public school system is designed around top-down education, but children are more than capable of peer-to-peer education. If we try to educate each other using resources that are available to us, then teachers can be valuable in helping to discern which way to investigate. But instead of encouraging children to learn on their own and ask pertinent questions of authority, they are being taught to accept authority and not ask questions.
IMHO either the system will break (from being rigid and useless) as any static system must eventually in an evolving environment, or children will be broken by the system and more stupid people will grow into adults and become more stupid teachers and *then* the system will break. I say, get rid of the schools, and let the children actually learn something!
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My Stance
HOWEVER, I do not think that legislation is needed to enforce this.
I also think when you say School in this context that would not include dorms. Students living in dorms should be allowed to use IM and Myspace on personal time.
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old people...
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hey
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Re: hey
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WTF
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Re: i cant help u
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oops
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rofl
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btw
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i have web sites
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THIS IS DUMB
This is CENSORSHIP.
It is pretty dumb and we aren't going down with out a fight.
With every proxy they block we will find three more.
So just keep that in mind, because we are rebels.
HAHAHA
SamanthaKay
&& if you have a problem with it EMAIL ME
cyanidecandyxmhm@aol.com
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MySpace in Libraries
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yeah...
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Social Networking and the Law
First and foremost, social networking sites are not “bad”, and children are certainly not “stupid”.
Secondly, social networking sites are not the exclusive domain of children. Adults (responsible and otherwise) use them too. It is however, childish to accuse all laws that restrict some freedoms to be oppressive.
If that law is passed it will be because of a relatively few immature children who are not as intelligent as they are clever (not you of course, I mean those “other immature kids”). It is the nature of children to “learn”. Unfortunately, it is also the nature of children to ignore good advice and stick their hand into a fire to “learn” too late that it burns. It is this relentless “urge to learn” that eventually makes children better and smarter then their parents. It is also this same urge that causes immature children to push the envelope, to play ever harder and more recklessly until someone gets hurt. Ask any parent. These are the children responsible for adults passing laws to protect immature children them from themselves.
--------------
“It's no secret that some schools have chosen to ban social networks like MySpace out of a misplaced fear concerning what the site is being used for.” ???
“Of course, this is all to "protect the children," because of a few fear mongering stories about bad people who have used these systems to prey on children.” ???
---------------
It is not the “responsible and mature” who are a concern. It is the behavior of the few “immature and irresponsible” that cause concern. If you are among the many “mature and responsible”, use your influence to encourage the few “immature and irresponsible” to behave responsibly. After all, we adults don’t want these sites to be banned either.
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fuckuall
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fuckuall
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school blocks are rediculous
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Complaint
Bonnie...
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Re: Complaint
GET OUT!
noones gonna help you...if your account is getting hacked, then ?????? maybe you should get a new account....
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this is awful
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what up
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wtf
Now, not all work has to be structured and assigned, and it is true that there are times set aside during the school day for play. But because it is hard to control the difference between playing and working online, the best bet is probably to restrict computer access altogether during the school day, with the possible exception of specified, supervised research time and formal computer classes. If you do not accept that all forms of "playing" on the computer are teaching some valuable skillset and if you don't trust the students to CHOOSE edifying things to do online rather than waste time, them don't give them the choice. I'm sure the library still has books they can entertain themselves with during those free periods. It's not like they're in school 20 hours a day with no opportunity to get the benefits of the internet. The opposite is far more likely; that they spend too much time online.
For students who don't have access to computers at home, make the labs available after school and have no restrictions on them once the school day ends. But have a 7-8 hour window when students simply have to find ways to fill their time that don't involve the internet -- whether they tend to look at good sites or bad.
It sounds to me that discipline is a bigger problem than pornography or dangerous relationships. There will not be a single day for the rest of your life, kids, once you get out of school when you get to do what you want to do precisely when you want to do it, and there will probably never be a time when you don't have to do annoying things and be bored because the person who is paying you thinks his projects are vitally important and should receive your full and diligent attention. The organization you work for will ban chat software and limit contractually what you can do with the machines the organization bought for you to work on, all of which controls and restricts how you spend the time when you're on his clock. School is no different from work: you don't earn a salary but you earn a diploma. Even with a ban on MySpace, you have much more freedom at school than the rest of us have at work. So stop whining about it.
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Re: wtf
This has to be the most intelligent solution and conversation I have ever seen on this post.
Thank you
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protecting or smothering?
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WTF?????? WHY NO RS!!!!!!!
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Getting on in school
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getting runescape back for students
=(
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you guys suck at arguments....
give me some good arguments and maybe i will grace them with a responce.
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RE
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free money
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Re: free money
you guys post that shit cuz u know nerds will get on and be dumb enough to do it and then you get a free account...whala!
that has nothing to do w/ this argument and u need to leave before i find you and kill you.
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Myspace
Ok - so if Myspace is so good then spend all of your time at home. Sit on your butt and get fat AT HOME.
Schools are for learning and if you do happen to have some free time then do some research on something. Does anybody know what the latest species that was discovered was? Has anybody in high school developed their own scripting language (being as your all genius's with computers)?
I teach computer use for a living (not in a school) and part of that teaching is how to stay safe online. I can't tell you how many times I have had to track down info on a person just to prove that they can be found (even after the "safety" conversation). I have been to Myspace and I do not approve of it's use. I have not seen one thing that was intelligent or useful.
I understand that people want to meet others from different area's and that is fine. What I don't understand is why is it so bad to keep it at home?
I am sure that things would be better and more things would not be blocked if kids in schools ONLY did Myspace, but we all know that is not the truth.
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zxfc
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this is ridiculous
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lol
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from me
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WHA!!?!?
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blocks
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this
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Back then, I found that if you misspelled the word "proxies" as "proxys" you could bypass said filter and get results in your search engine for sites with proxy lists. Being a Computer Science major, I would imagine the intelligence of most filters would have this bug taken care of by now... but who knows ; )
You should focus your search on proxies using port 80 (which is the standard HTTP / web browsing port). They cannot block that port. If you cannot alter network settings, you want to look for a website that works as a proxy. You simply visit said site and enter the URL you want to go to. Some of these sites specialize in MySpace.
If you are one of the unfortunate individuals behind a content proxy, you may need to find a more sophisticated site, one that changes certain key words found in MySpace web code to something that won't trip it.
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kids are no more kids
time has change, no laws can banned those site from using it, as long as they exist.
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schools blocking myspace
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There is a way around it!
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