Online Predators Less Of A Problem; It's Your Kid's Friends To Watch Out For
from the so-what's-wrong-with-MySpace-again? dept
For all of the recent fear mongering over MySpace about "predators" going after kids, which has led to Congress pushing legislation to ban social networking sites (and plenty of other sites) in schools, you'd think they'd at least have a bit of evidence that these kinds of sites really are a problem. Turns out that's difficult, since it's not actually true. A new study shows that fewer youngsters are being solicited by predators online and those that are know enough to completely ignore or brush off the approaches. In other words, educating kids how to deal with online predators, and to recognize that you can't trust everyone online seems to be pretty damn effective so far. One other interesting (if not surprising) finding from the study: kids are much more likely to receive online porn from their peers, rather than some random predator. In other words, just as has happened for ages, kids get their hands on some porn and pass it on to friends. So why are so many folks trying to shut down these social networks again?
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Good point
Of course I shouldn't be surprised. Whatever direction the government takes is usually the wrong one, or at least not as true as they make it out to be.
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Because...
So why are so many folks trying to shut down these social networks again?
1. To win votes.
2. To look like they are "thinking of the children" when (re)-election comes around.
3. Social sites are the flavor of the moment.
What do you know reasons two and three relate to reason one as well...
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Great point Sanguine
Great point!
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You forgot the main reasons!
a) They don't actually undestand them, the nearest they have probably come to a computer is their car or toaster. i.e. they are technology challenged.
b) They hate is when they lose control of the media, especially the issue of freedon of speech, isn't that in the constitution someplace.
c) They just don't like it when others are having fun.
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Re: You forgot the main reasons!
a) Dead on!
b) Not really ... they actually could care less! HOWEVER when the media fear mongers as they do to the not so smart general population it gives them an "issue" and even if it's true or not if people think it's "common knowledge" they get votes when they huff and puff about it. (I recommend reading 'Freakonimics, or Myths, lies and down right stupidity'
c) you might have a point there.
d) get reelected
e)PROFIT!
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Beefcake's First Law of Pandering
The first corollary to the above law indicates an exponential increase in votes relative to an equal volume of exothermic heat if any of that heat contains vibrations detectable by the human ear as the words "children" or "terrorists".
The second corollary indicates an exponential reduction in votes relative to an equal volume of exothermic heat if any of that heat contains vibrations detectable by the human ear as the phrases "leave well enough alone" or "don't worry, things are fine".
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uhhhh.. right!
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beefcake...
/sarcasm
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Online predators
You're saying if it's 100, not 200 kids who got molested and ruined for the rest of their lives in a certain time period, that's a great improvement and we can stop trying to abate that number.
You obviously don't have children, and couldn't care less about anyone else's welfare.
People want to put their heads in the sand and pretend they are safe and protected, but the problem is, there are so many sexual predators out there, who will use any means necessary to get off, that anything that can help stem the tide is good. You won't care one iota for your constitutional rights if your child is the one attacked.
And as far as watching out for your kids' friends, they are much less likely to molest/rape than the 40 yr old man they meet online. Trading porn between curious kids is in no way the same thing as preying upon children by an adult.
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Re: Online predators
Just kidding, I think the whole point to this is that the more educated children are, the better choices they make. Everyone is so concerned about children online being solicited by predators and running out to meet them. These same children would be dumb enough to have an older man walk up to them in a mall, say some wonderful things, then drive off with him into the night. People act like the online world is more dangerous than the real world and these people are very uneducated.
And I did watch the 60 minute interview about MySpace and realized it was just media hype. The three girls they focused the whole story on were part of the "dumb teen" crowd. They never mentioned how many other kids they had to solicit before reeling in these three girls. My guess would be a lot.
As for election year, I don't think it matters how much they try and play this up. The republicans are going down!
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Re: Online predators
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ylshbj xzruhcfd
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Re: Online predators
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Re: Online predators
1) MySpace or any social networking site should not be in schools, not because of risk of online predators, but because kids should be learning in schools, not chatting to their friends on MySpace.
2) Kids don't get molested online. If someone is saying something you don't like, be it a kid or an adult, there's this little 'X' in the corner of your window you can click, and they go away.
3) I don't give a damn if MY kid is attacked or not in relation to mine, his or ANYONE'S constitutional rights, and THIS is exactly the problem, let's use kids, drugs, terrorism or anything else we can think of to turn 2006 into 1984.
bmac, this statment you made, "You won't care one iota for your constitutional rights if your child is the one attacked." really scares the shit outta me more than the imagined threat that there's a pedophile on every corner.
4) If you're so concerned about the safety of your children, then EDUCATE them about the dangers of being online, and stop crying to the government to solve every problem in society, real or imagined!
I hope you all realize that bmac is not the minority here, the government has used their own campaign of terror over the last few decades to cause many people to think just like this. Something bad happens or "studies show" that something bad might happen and people think it's OK to lose all our rights so that Big Brother, I mean Uncle Sam, can protect us.
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Re: Online predators
Your children are far far more likely to be molested by you, or another close family member, than anyone on the internet.
How many of your constitutional rights are you willing to sacrifice for "safety"? What gives you the temerity to assume MY rights aren't worth more than your inability to monitor your children?
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Re: Online predators
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Re: Online predators
I was a Criminal Justice major and one of the thiongs we would hear about from visiting detectives, is that thew "statistics" are completely inaccurate because they do not reflect the majority of women based attacks.
Maybe fromn now on, you and everyone else could use both sexes as an example instead of saying things like the 40-year-old man online. As a last note, i might add that it seems to be commonly taught to young men that older women should be desirable etc etc, while young girls are taught that older guys are a no no.
In a society where the last 2 generations of children have seen their parents leave each other for younger people, richer people, or just so that they could play. Who do we blame when a 16-year-old has sex with an older person the man, the woman or both?
When we watch older women walk around with their boy toys and see their blogs about younger guys and have tv shows like desperate housewives which was voted as one of the most popular shows among women, then we should not have the right to only mention men when we have cross generation sex happening.
As a father i say do what is right. Explain the pitfalls of your own past and maybe the past of friends you saw get hurt growing up due to sexual activity. Monitor your child's activities and above all, realize that their are also a huge number of female predators just as thier are male predators, so be careful and screen everyone that has contact with your child.
Bottom line- get involved as a real parent or shut up and let bad things happen. Your choice
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State of Fear
It's common sense really, don't tell somebody you've IMed once your telephone number. They probably aren't as interesting as you'd like to think.
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Laws have to be established to protect the good of the whole, especially children who aren't being properly supervised.
Lay off the consipiracy theories and use some common sense.
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Joe Liberman
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Educate the predators
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regarding the forumula
myPolitician.votes = 0;
if(myPolitician.hotair >= Politician.AverageHotAirVolume)
{
while(myPolitican.hotair != 0)
{
votes++;
}
}
foreach(speach s in myPolitician.speaches)
{
if(s.contains("terrorist", chidren"))
{
votes++;
}
else if(s.contains("leave well enough alone", "dont worry, things are fine"))
{
votes--;
}
}
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Re: regarding the forumula
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Get the name right, Scott!
And why bash senators for our lack of internet knowledge? Al Gore was a senator, and he freaking CREATED the internets. Take that, Scott!
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that sucked.. let me try again
if(myPolitician.hotair >= Politician.AverageHotAirVolume)
{
while(myPolitican.hotair != 0)
{
votes++;
}
}
foreach(speach s in myPolitician.speaches)
{
if(s.contains("terrorist", chidren"))
{
votes++;
}
else if(s.contains("leave well enough alone", "dont worry, things are fine"))
{
votes--;
}
}
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Re: that sucked.. let me try again
I'm no damn good with numbers-- I'll let the math whizzes figure out the formulae.
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Parents watch your own kids
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Very True Article!
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Re: Very True Article!
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wgeh lvdbtfcx
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Re: Re: Online Predators
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Re: Re: Re: Online Predators
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oqkcu gdpowj
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Online Predators
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unmkjf acnxwimh
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Online Predators
I think that it is a mistake to underestimate the ability and drive of sexual predators and their desire to perpetrate sex cimes on unwitting and immature children.
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Re: Online Predators
But, in the end, do you agree with us that it is a parent's responbility to control and watch their children then to try and ban social network sites? I mean, there are porn sites out there where all you need to do is click a button saying you're 18 and then you have instant access. Just from experience, the more children are told they CAN'T be on a certain site, the more they want to look.
Besides, these social networking site can't be outlawed, that's unconsitutional by the 1st amendment. The most that can happen will be age restrictions where, as we all know well, rarely work.
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Re: Online Predators
Can we have some details on that please?
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Beefcake's First Law of Pandering Third Corollary
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Social Networks are...
They corrupt society and our youth. They undermine the government and powers that be.
They are against christ and the church. They are against family values.
They cause bad breath, acne, and teen pregnancy.
What good are they?
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Re: Social Networks are...
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Re: Social Networks are...
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I think in this case its as classic as the things I just pointed out. The media or their friend "billy" said something that they instantly took as a cold hard fact rather than looking at the actual data. So in this case when the media says MySpace is the spawn of Satan then the general public blindly accepts that fact just to go along with everyone else. Sheep follow other sheep I guess...
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Correction
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vlhdbu ylhndpa
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Online predators
I agree that teaching our kids about the dangers is appropriate, and I already do that, but I'm also not going to let mine visit MySpace, etc. in my house, and I'd like to know they can't at school either.
Anyone who has a MySpace page can tell you that you WILL receive solicitation from strippers, amateur porn sites, homosexuals, etc. Even an educated, savvy kid might be curious enough to visit the page, look at the profile and pictures, and just might get in over their heads.
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Re: Online predators
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Re: Online predators
Personally, I jsut want to make sure my kids don't go to school with your kids, cause yours are going to be psychotic, and I don't want them hurting my kids.
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Re: Re: Online predators
Kids will become psychotic because they can't use MySpace?
Do us all a favor; see a doctor and make sure you can't have kids, because you have no clue.
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Re: Online predators
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Re: Re: Online predators
.... need we say more?
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efqiyp mqdar
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Seriously though...
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Re: Online Predators
If that's not the most absurd, sensationalist, alarmist, fear mongering statement I've ever heard. You're just regurgitating the crap that's been fed to you through the tube called the mass media. The internet hasn't created these child predators or corrupted our youth or, in fact, changed any aspect of fundamental human behavoir... it's just made the stupidity of the human race accessible to the public as a whole. Now everyone in the world gets to see how messed up people really are. The problem is people are in denial about human nature (the bad parts mostly, although "bad" is rather subjective and open to interpretation) and would like to pass the blame on to whatever the current cultural trend is...
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The 9-10 Commission
"# 25 percent of exploiters of children are other children.
# Children who engage in prostitution can earn between $200 and $1,500 per day.
# 75 percent of children who are victims of commercial sexual exploitation are from middle class backgrounds.
"
etc:
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/LAW/09/10/child.exploitation/index.html
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don't underestimate the sick and twisted
Most parents do educate and restrict their kids appropriately, and keeping kids safe from predators is not easy.
These sick bastards have always been around, and technology gives them more opportunities just like everyone else.
I'm big into giving my kids freedom on the net at home, but none of them will ever have one in a bedroom or any other place I can't look over their shoulder.
If schools had better programs I would allow my kids access, but public schools are pathetically run by disenchanted educated people who thought they would get more respect and earn more money.
Under 18 you do not have the rights you think you are entitled to and I DON'T CARE - a person willing to commit such a heinous crime is more dangerous than anyone you've ever met in the short time you've been alive.
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social networking in school
Morals of the story:
-Learn in school.
-Parents: if you want your kids to be safe, get off your ass and talk to you kids and monitor them.
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How quickly we forget!
Or the 90s, when abductions-by-strangers were happening on almost every block in every city in the US?
Now we have the 00s, and it's Internet predators - just thousands of them out there. Although, I too am puzzled by what, exactly, one can do to harm a child through broadband or DSL. (For some reason, I always thought physical proximity was mandatory for physical harm to happen)
Of course, we are so much safer now that politicians have responded to these threats with mandatory prison sentences and 3-strikes laws. Who cares that the percentage of people America locks up is so much higher than any other developed country or that public coffers are being depleted keeping those dangerous first time drug offenders locked up for life!
Fear wins elections. Fear sells product! Next time you spend an evening in front of the TV, count the number of advertisiements that use fear to sell you something. You'll be surprised how many use fear to sell you something you may or may not need or want. If you include the fear of embarrassment or unpopularity or body odor, the total percentage of ads using fear to sell probably approaches 95-98%
I'm more interested in how, exactly, one harms a child with porn - - - having been exposed to so-called porn since I was young and not feeling damaged at all.
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Re: How quickly we forget!
I don't remember any of that happening in 1980's. I thought the problem was disco music.
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yada yada yada
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Yep. Billy has a 43-year old boyfriend, and I want one too!
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Haven't you ever been sold something you didn't need or didn't want? Ever come up against a slick salesperson who just wouldn't give up? It's easy to sell kids almost anything -- they don't have enough experience at making bad decisions, period.
Molestation isn't necesarily physical, to get someone to submit to the unthinkable you first have to convince them it isn't wrong.
Keeping kids out of chat rooms and such places is a start, whether you think it is a violation of rights is irrelevant, children don't have the rights of adults, for damn good reasons.
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Re: to John Q.
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Back when...
Besides which, before the internet there was always someone's playboy stash.
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then share it a page at a time an hope he didnt need that paticular lady any more :0
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I have a son and hate DOPA.
Next when a child falls out a window do we blame window manufactures and ban windows for schools and libraries, because a child might fall out? No we hold the caretaker responsible. The internet should be no different.
If you want to say that the computers in schools need to have filtering/blocking, leave it up to the parents in that school district to determine what to block.
Or ask why when childern have access to the internet that there isn't someone monitoring them? Even in a computer lab it wouldn't be that difficult to have a teacher's computer monitor all their connections and be able to block it from there.
Don't allow terrorists to push you around. Yes, I'm saying people who use fear to push agendas are terrorists. Yes this includes many politicians and much of the media.
I was glad to see I'm not alone in these comments.
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Porn from Peers?
Steven age 12
Billy age 10
Super Fly age 16
they seem fine...
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Fear-Mongering
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So...
Sociall sites create online predators.
The Ford Mustang caused the vehicular manslaughter, not the drunk driver.
It was the wild animal's fault for mauling the hiker that was messing with her cubs.
The planes were the cause of the WTC.
That lady still had nothing to do with spilling the coffee in her lap.
Violent video games cause school violence.
I'm so glad that has all been straightened out.
And in a related note guns really do kill people.
[/sarcasm]
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So my question is why are these social networking sites getting all of the heat? IMO its about proper parenting and education about the internet for both parents and children.
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Re: All you yahoos
And again, for those civil libertarians here with their heads up their arses, there just may be a pedophile on every corner. You can't tell, and neither can I, who is good or bad. But you cant' deny they are there, waiting for the opportunity by any means possible.
For those that say porn isn't bad, take a look at Ted Bundy and others who said porn was their spring board to more and more heinous acts. Not to mention that women are devalued by this medium.
I monitor closely what my children do online, but I also employ a filter that blocks most everything questionable, so there's little to no chance that they will encounter content that they are not ready to handle. And before they spend the night at their friend's house, I will be asking how they secure their computer, if any, as well as getting to know the parents, their beliefs, etc.
One more thing: Mongorians, are you a $cientologist? Cuz you sound just like L. Ron Hubbard... Children are not inexperienced adults in small bodies. They don't have the same level of synaptic connections built in their little brains, and aren't capable of logical thought at a young age. You, obviously, were a prodigy, capable of amazing feats of mental strength and willpower, but most children are not.
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Re: Re: All you yahoos ummm BMac? Kin yew say "duu
BMac, and anyonbe else out there who's foolish, blind, or ignorant enough to think they can control access to social networking sites, get a clue.
Here's a link to a C/Net News.com article you REALLY need to read.
http://news.com.com/2009-1041_3-6062548.html?part=rss&tag=6062548&subj=news
Stop expecting someone else to take responsibility for how you raise and protect your kids. No law, or government agency, nor any handy, dandy "we'll do it for you" type of software is going to adequately protect your kids.
It's YOU'RE job. YOU'RE responsibility to LEARN about it and help your kids.
The digital world your kids are growing up in is what they're growing up to live with, and just as you had to learn to deal with things your parents were frightened of (TV, cell phones, video games, beer, Playboy, Darwin, the list is endless), your kids are DIGITAL NATIVES and you are an alien in their world. It's up to YOU to learn as much as you can about it, not just think you can "turn it off" and it will go away.
Try actually talking to your kids, instead of simply passing edicts they just feel forced to sneak around. Because they will, and very likely probably do. Surprise!
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Re: Re: All you yahoos
Nobody is denying that child predators aren't there, but if you follow the argument then that same street corner should be removed because a child predator might be hanging out there waiting to solicite children. Anyone with a brain knows that the removal of street corners would be absurd. Rather, you'd educate your children not to talk to the stranger.
Also, your argument about porn being evil is extremely faulty. It's the same propaganda that people use to demonize anything that a particular, disturbed individual uses as a "springboard". Charles Manson used the Beatles as an excuse for his actions, are the Beatles to blame for the Manson Family's actions?
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Oh...
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Oh... #2
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Re: Mongorians
But when we are talking about Internet-based predation, it's a lot harder to see who the offender is, much less deal with him/her until they've committed an act.
Why not make it harder for that offender to get to someone by restricting access to certain sites. When they are grown and living under their own roof, they can do whatever they please, but while I have them, they're going to abide by the rules I place upon them.
If some creepy person is hanging around the playground while your kids are playing there, you could have taught them everything they need to know, but they can still get snatched. It's the same with the Internet. It's far easier to get sucked in because at first you feel you have some sense of anonymity.
Besides, if you'll remember your own adolescence, then you should remember that you had a feeling of invincibility, that mom and dad were complete idiots, and you listened very little to their teaching.
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ldunhwxar itjbpf
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Re: Re: Mongorians
And again, I'd like to point out, that your logic is severly flawed. We DO attempt to take away the offender rather than the place they offend, so why take away myspace? In both situations, the street corner and the internet, it's impossible to know who the child predator is until they've commited the act. Also, it's FAR easier for a child to get into trouble with the person in the park, as the person is within a close physical proximity to the child. It requires a far larger series of events for a child to be abducted or abused from an online encounter than it does from an offline one. ALSO, offline, the only thing you have to go by is eye witness accounts, there is no IP trail (yes, I know with wifi handicapped people this doesn't always mean much but there are plenty of means of figuring out who people are online outside of an IP address.).
Let's also not forget that the number of children who get abused by a stranger is somewhere around 4%. Who do you think makes up the other 96%?.
And why do you keep bringing me, personally, into this... as I mentioned before, I survived my online childhood experience just fine by using my own common sense as my mother knew and still knows next to nothing about computers in general.
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Re: Re: Re: Mongorians
I appreciate your comments; I'm not patronizing you. IMO, it's a valuable part of this process that not only do we comment on these blogs, but we interact with each other, to hopefully come to some kind of understanding of each others' viewpoints. I replied to you directly because you wrote in direct response to my posts.
Think of this example: Cars nowadays have 2 or more airbags, anti-lock brakes, safety cages, etc. all designed to make us safer in an accident. Now my parents got along fine without those innovations, as did I before their advent. But all new cars now come with at least some of these items standard. Not everyone will have an accident, but everyone can be protected proactively just in case.
The same can be said of restricting access to web sites for children. Just a little proactive protection where we can get it. And if the majority of voters back this type of legislation, then no one should complain. We elected those people (idiots, charlatans, etc.) in the first place, and they should be representing our ideals and needs. If they're using issues to garner votes with no real intention of doing something, then we should see that they aren't elected/re-elected.
Hail Xenu!
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Re: Re: Re: Mongorians
Also, people SHOULD complain. The elected officials will always use scare tactics to win votes come election time. If you think they care more about representing the people's ideals than securing their re-election then you're sadly mistaken. The problem is that ALL politicians use issues to garner votes, it's the nature of the beast. If we don't relect them then the person we do elect will simply follow suite. A wise man once said regarding elections and voting: "It always comes down to a douche and a turd."
Frankly, people need to talk to their children about their online experience in a rational manner... making such a big fuss about not allowing kids onto social networking sites only plants the seed of desire. And as much as people would not like to believe it, kids are far smarter than most adults give them credit for. All it takes is for one kid to find a way to access the site and bypass any filters or parental controls and then the knowledge will spread.
Secret actions are far more dangerous than transparent ones.
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Re:
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Catholic
Yes, it does mean that I hope everyone I know will stay away from the Catholic church. I don't want anyone I know praying to a bunch of dead people instead of God. Further, I wouldn't trust any priest around children. Mostly gay, repressed, frustated men who eventually get tired of their hand, and... well, you know the rest of the story. So does little Johnny, the altar boy.
Over 20 years ago, there was a report by 60 Minutes about the pedophile priest problem and how the Catholic church, to avoid costly lawsuits and publicity, would quickly pull a pedophile priest from his local church before any arrests could be made, send him to a special convent for pedophiles for treatment, and then turn him loose on another congregation hundreds or thousands of miles from the previous church, where he would start molesting children again. This was documented thoroughly by the news program and admitted by the church at the time, but it seems I'm the only person left on this planet who remembers. Now 20+ years later, everyone is SO surprised that priests have been molesting children.
And the Vatican itself has recently had to issue new policies regarding the requirements for joining seminaries, because they have become a haven for gay culture instead of the pursuit of God and the priesthood.
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Re: Catholic
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