Media Making Sure You Know That Montreal Shooter Played Violent Video Games
from the blame-the-video-games dept
Following yesterday's story of the guy in Montreal, Canada, who went on a shooting rampage at a college before being killed by police, it's no surprise that the press has done their typical (these days) delving into his online persona. They've found various things he's written about online, pictures of himself with guns... and, of course, (as a few people have submitted), the fact that he liked to play certain violent video games, including the video game based on the Columbine shooting. Not surprisingly, everyone's favorite anti-videogame lawyer, Jack Thompson, quickly sent out an announcement to the press announcing that he was "right again," claiming that the shooter "trained" on these video games. Of course, a much more reasonable explanation was that this was a clearly troubled individual who had an awful lot of issues, that culminated in this horrific event. It's not surprising that such a person would be attracted to such video games, but there's no evidence that playing such games would drive him to act. The creator of the Columbine video game also felt compelled to post his thoughts, noting that an important part of the game was trying to help others, like himself, from heading down a similarly destructive path. Also, as the first link above notes, Thompson couldn't resist using the announcement to warn about "the worst" video game that is about to come out: Bully. Of course, this is the same game that has won praise from anti-bullying advocates, and just today was given a "T for Teen" rating, which is even lower than many people expected.
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Here we go.
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Re: Here we go.
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Why do I get the impression...
You remind me of the ciggarette company lawyers that for years stated there was no direct link to smoking and lung cancer. The man basically tells you what his motivations were and you choose to ignore them.
Certainly most balanced individuals can handle violent video games, at least to the extent that they aren't gunning people down in the streets. But to imply that you and anyone else (especially those who start at a very young age) are not adversely impacted by simulated violence - then you're deluding yourself.
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Re: Why do I get the impression...
Basically told his motivations that we chose to ignore? You really think he made it clear that his *motivation* was a video game?
No, what's clear is that this was a deeply disturbed individual -- and there were a variety of factors that all pointed that way. His "motivations" had nothing to do with video games, and we did not ignore them.
The people who ignored them, were the people who knew him, and could see how troubled he had become.
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Re: Why do I get the impression...
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sax and violins
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There is no doubt that violent videos might have an impact on a very small percentage of the population, but one has to realize that blaming the videogames is not the answer, that's like blaming binocular companies for all the peeping toms. One has to go to to the source, which in this case was a very disturbed kid.
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Blaming binocular companies?
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Kudos to Mike!
Keep on rackin' up those brownie points!
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Media - Games - Causation
I just can't figure out why all gamers don't do it. Uh, wait, could it be these are warped sub-humans who would also kill after eating a bowl of Wheaties?
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Re: Media - Games - Causation
The US military has done a lot of research on this. Fascinating stuff.
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Ehh... Just what you need... more Restrictions
Lets face it... Parents don't want us to ever develope games ever again that have anything but Elmo in it!
If it wasn't for the gaming market... Computers wouldn't be where they are today, DVDs wouldn't be at the level of quality unless we had Games that proved to be entertaining and increasing in cineamatic quality.
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Frank Zappa said the best...
*para-phrasing fz*
"based on that logic people should love each other more, since the vast majority of musical songs are about love, but they don't"
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Re: Frank Zappa said the best...
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Any statistical data on gamers?
As several people have already suggested, it may be the breakfast cereal of their choice. Oooh... maybe it's the sugar!
I've already read "but so many video gamers DON'T shoot people" several times just in this post, but does anybody have statistics, say sales vs sucidal/homicidal teens?
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Kids 'ese days...
Put it this way... these things happened long before video games, long before "destructive" entertainment. These things have been occuring since the beginning of human existence (well, minus the guns, but that's unimportant).
Why is it hard to believe that people are born violent? Hell, they have medications for this kind of stuff -- for people who were born more apt to be depressed or hyperactive or [insert emotional imbalance here]. So why can't we accept that some people are more apt to be violent due to chemical imbalances in the brain?
Don't like that version? Then perhaps we can look at those who raised the violent person. Were they attentive enough? Were they not protective enough? Were they overly attentive or protective? Was the person exposed to violence in the household at a young age?
Nature vs nurture. Regardless of which you're inclined to believe, the answer is NOT blaming x, y, or z media.
But, no, we must look for a scapegoat because people certainly cannot be held responsible for their actions.
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I have played a lot of computer games - some of the violent in the extreme (eg. Hitman, GTA:SA, Battlefield Vietnam), but that has not given me the desire to go killing anyone. If it did, however, would that mean that if I were to play something along the lines of Thomas the Tank Engine, would I want to turn into a train?
I think the reason people like the Montreal shooter play games portraying violence such as that is because they find expression they desire in that game, not the game finds expression in them! The readyness of poeple to blame others is appauling!
I can just see it - people will be sueing car manufacturers because if they didn't make the car in the first place, they wouldn't have been able to drive it!
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Gee whiz.
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Putting the Blame one someone else
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Violent video games...
I like puzzles, so I play some puzzle video games, it didn't happen the other way around.
Playing Sim City 2000 didn't make me want to be a mayor or city planner.
correlation does not mean cause.
People like Jack Thompson make it worse because it is obvious they are just in it for the personal publicity. He is a damned attention whore.
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Re:
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You know what?...
Thompson's a feckin tard. If requested, I could provide him a pubic hairball for him to choke on, he'll have to take a number for my left nut.
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Other cuases
The next time that a teen commits mass murder and we find out that he/she travelled in cars, watched TV news and ate apples well, don't say i didn't warn you.
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DUCK! Video Games May Save Lives
I want to play a game where you can have all the sex you want till your duck was COOKED!
Video game title:
DUCKS GONE WILD
Starring in the game is real Hard Core Porn Chicks :) JUST HATCHED....& LEGAL TO HUNT....
I can read the headlines now.
SUSPECT is a White Male DUCK:
Description
An mutated extra large orange bill, waterproof web feet also a flight risk, known to fly to mexico during the winter time, has left hundreds of Fertilized Eggs all across North America. Could be a Bird Flu Virus Carrier
WARNING IS UNCLIPPED AND DANGEROUS
Known to play porn sex video games.
AKA "Dirty" Duck.
Reported to be an evil hatchling of fame movie star.
WANTED BY THE DNR.
DNR rep said at the press hearing.
"All bad ducks fly back to the scene of the crime".
Let's say the Duck was caught... In his defense he said that the "SEX VIDEO GAMES MADE ME DO IT"
Those people want to take away our Xbox's and Play Stations and computers. What are we going to have to do to live in a FREE COUNTRY?
Make an Technology ARM of the NRA. We'll be called the VRA Videogamers Rights Association.
We'll FIGHT for our First Admendments Rights! To own video game controllers and software.
The only way they'll get my controller is to puck my cold broken off feathers from the controller.
Let's not get "GOOFY" these are games. The school in Montreal should have had some type of system to detect GUNS? That wasn't hard.
Did the school people up there play a video game that you LET FRUIT CAKES WALK IN AND SHOT PEOPLE?
Go to an airport today with a bottle of water, they would take that from you. Lord any moron can do what that idiot did in Montreal FOR WHAT EVER REASON because there is no security. If there was it wasn't good enough and I would SUE THE SCHOOL SYSTEM UP THERE for F'in up security.
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Not going to like this.....
Our do kids do not go on rampages like this.
Why???
Because we heavily restrict access to guns.
Take the gun away and this guy would still be just an angry young man.
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Re: Not going to like this.....
Not going to like this..... by TechNoFear on Sep 15th, 2006 @ 1:57am
In Australia our kids play the same games.
Our do kids do not go on rampages like this.
Why???
Because we heavily restrict access to guns.
Take the gun away and this guy would still be just an angry young man.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What does anyone expect from a country that was essentially a prison? Of course you're going to have strict gun control laws, they were there when your ancestors were sent to Australia as prisoners!
Besides, more people kill each other every year around the world using motorized vehicles than any other weapon created. Yet why aren't those outlawed?
As for the Montreal Shooter, my money is on the fact he ate Cookie Crisp Cereal, and that's what made it go wacko!!!
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Violent Video Games
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take the gun away..
In Australia our kids play the same games.
Our do kids do not go on rampages like this.
Why???
Because we heavily restrict access to guns.
Take the gun away and this guy would still be just an angry young man.
***************************
people who are driven to kill, will kill. its unfortunate that this man was able to access a dangerous weapon, but its not the time to proclaim your supposed superiority.
if he had bludgeoned someone to death with a length of timber before turning the board on himself, would we hear about australian lumber control laws?
and, forgive me if im wrong, canadian gun control laws are very stringent, are they not? lots of registrations and liscenses.. many are banned, others heavily restricted? no handguns except police and gun club members? though australians Must do it better, correct? zero gun crime?
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Media
THE TV IS NEVER WRONG.
/end sarcasm
Ok seriously, it's sad to see so many "adults" actually believe this nonsense.
Unfortunately age has nothing to do with intelligence or self-thinking. Jack Thompson and anyone with similar erroneous beleifs is proof of this.
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Re: Media
THE TV IS NEVER WRONG.
/end sarcasm
Ok seriously, it's sad to see so many "adults" actually believe this nonsense.
Unfortunately age has nothing to do with intelligence or self-thinking. Jack Thompson and anyone with similar erroneous beleifs is proof of this.
[/quote]
I'm currently taking a highschool course in media, where they basically teach you not to believe everything you hear. All media including this website is just trying to get people to view them because it makes them money.
It's a simple concept that everyone should be aware of when they watch or read the news. And that's why it bothers me to think that the government is being affected by this.
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The Onion
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GTA San Ann
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All we need...
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Also
/sarcasm
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which makes more sense then being exposed to fiction for 2-6 hours a day, then say living in a very depress area/house hold.
also jack thompson just needs to bury himself or something.
VRA Videogamers Rights Association.
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Not only Thompson is missing the point, but those
First, the Colombine simulator was a game made in RPG Maker, an authority program that create games at the level of the SNES. I seriously doubt that such a game would "train" someone to kill (I did not played the game, but I used RPG Maker a lot so I know it's limitations).
Second, what your's media's missing is that the shooting spree was not from the videogame, but from (from the biography he published on the net) a hatred againts sportsmans and general society. He described himself as a lone wolf who don't go well with his parents. He also wrote that he wanted to die as Romeo and Juliet (double suicide) or under a shower of bullets. He said he wanted to die and the crime he wanted to commit the most (according to his profile on his gothic style website) is a murder. He wrote «Work sucks, school sucks, life sucks... What else can I say?». Two hours before the crime, he wrote on his blog «Whiskey in the morning... mmmm... mmmm... good!» which means that he was severely despressed and I don't think that videogames had much of an impact.
Third, for the last 17 years, none of the shooting spree made in Montreal were inspired by videogames (or when ever commited by minors). The 1989 drama at the Polythechnie commited by Marc Lépine was inspired by a hartred for feminism (not sure of the english word), and he shot 14 female students (in a letter he wrote before his death, he said he despited womans (who supposely ruined his life) and said he was fighting feminism). The 1996 crime, (which I don't remember the name of the shooter or the school) was commited by a teacher who shot three of his partners and wounded another one who died shortly afterward. He said that his was totally rejected and this was a vengence.
Fourth, I become more and more angered and offended at Jack Thompson bogus comments. There is one in particular (I saw it in wikipedia in his biography) that a few weeks ago, after another crime comitted by a minor, he said “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man (don't know what a hit man is) or a video gamer." That sound to me that he thinks that video gamers are immorals sadists with no life. Oh and, even if Thompson consider himself as “the only officially certified sane lawyer in the entire state of Florida”, take note of this. Sane don't mean smart.
I absolutely have no respect for murderers (even less minor murderers) but I have even less respect for lawyers who bash medias as "the root of all evil".
P.S. I am not english native so forgive my bad english.
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I also used to play alot of donkey kong and enjoy jumping over barrels. The difference between people and animals is people use their brains ( some ) instead of their instincts. It is just too bad that these shooters that do this go after other kids (young adults ) and do not direct their anger or rage at the idiots who blame video games on shooting sprees.
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What really kill people is guns - not a game
If games are bad, what to say about 95% of the Holiwood production. Guns, yes guns on 95% of all movies scenes.
More dangerous is Geoge Bush and the frenetic way of american life, where for to become a "winner" you must to have a biggest SUV car, a bigger house in town, with a garage full of all sort of things you used one time. Lot of gadgets.
Ok, if you don't have all of these... You are a "loser". So lets begin a see all junk violent movies, buy a gun, you can is very cheaper, play some "nice" and "innofensive" videogames... repeate for your self "I'm a loser" "i have no salvation"... and...
C'mon, Let look it for a new and fresh perspective:
What you do and thinks is what really matters, not the brand of your jeans or how big are the tires of your SUV.
And, frankly, as much as you play and see that junk games and movies, more you'll melt your brain. Robotized
Congratulations is all of the industry hopes from you!
Just an opinion.
Peace and have a nice weekend.
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now with that being said...
remember last year when a guy tried to rundown several students at a North carolina college (but he wasn't associated with the gta games)
on discovery channel last night was a show about Death Metal music and the correlation to violence. it falls on simmilar lines. Yes, DM music is evil, satanic, violent and what not, but howmany DM listeners have actually gone out? a few handfull maybe? the point of the show was digging into the "bad" of dm, where several people were murdered/suicided and had listened to DM. however they also were involved in the occult/satanism. it isn't that these games/music/movies/tv/whatever inspire people to do bad things. it's just that some people who do bad things are assocated with games/movies/music and whatnot.
i think the real question is is the violence the "straw that broke the cammel's back"? and that's more difficult to answer. we must recoginize that yes, violent video games cause people to feel good and what not when they play. it's completly chemical/neurological. EVERYONE who does that has the same response. what is different is how it fits in with the rest of the individual's body/chemistry.
so, yeah, i believe that thes so called "bad media" should be restricted....oh wait they are. video game ratings, parental cd warnings, the v-chip, movie ratings. now, how did these individuals get these items. should we blame the ebay's, walmarts, and gamestops for selling this stuff to people w/o conducting a thorough background check? if they sell to minors it's illegal. plain and simple (in the usa that is) but all you do is get your older friend to buy it. i've seen someone ask total strangers to buy minor-illegal stuff. and there isn't really a nything a cashier can do.
but moreover, this just isn't a case of is videogame violence bad, it's more of what is going wrong with society. why is this hapening? if only a small portion actually suffer from this, there is a larger question to be asked as why society is turning out these people? what can we do to fix ALL aspects of societ? and the real answer is nothing. we just cant. we can try and cope and reduce, but it will allways happen.
history repeats itself.
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Cereal
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Guns kills that's fact
I'm deeply saddened by the events that have taken place in cannada too, as in Columbine, or eslewhere.
I do think the "bad" games, movies, tv, whatever the duty ofr the violence we are seeing nowadays. But, the violent behaviour walk side-by-side with a "a life style".
I do not agree too with restrictitions, video game ratings, parental cd warnings, the v-chip, movie ratings. These are absolutely non eficiency.
What I do believe is in EDUCATION - CULTURE. On the slow down of the culture of "fanatic consumation", where lots of poeple just become happy when can buy all newest and biggest and stilysh sort of things.
We have lots of good movies, where you'll not see any guns or bloody. TV, well Tv is another history, they suks! But, at least, good soap operas, ducomentaries and Public chanels. A BOOK, yes read a good book, turn of the tv.
Ok, ok it' s not easy I know. But is really exist a wide and wonderfull world outside these monochomic, monotonic, pasteurazed, restricted, awful little worof the Holiwood/TV/videogames.
Just try! You never wiil can go back
Peace and culture for allones!
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Guns kills that's fact
I'm deeply saddened by the events that have taken place in cannada too, as in Columbine, or eslewhere.
I do think the "bad" games, movies, tv, whatever the duty ofr the violence we are seeing nowadays. But, the violent behaviour walk side-by-side with a "a life style".
I do not agree too with restrictitions, video game ratings, parental cd warnings, the v-chip, movie ratings. These are absolutely non eficiency.
What I do believe is in EDUCATION - CULTURE. On the slow down of the culture of "fanatic consumation", where lots of poeple just become happy when can buy all newest and biggest and stilysh sort of things.
We have lots of good movies, where you'll not see any guns or bloody. TV, well Tv is another history, they suks! But, at least, good soap operas, ducomentaries and Public chanels. A BOOK, yes read a good book, turn of the tv.
Ok, ok it' s not easy I know. But is really exist a wide and wonderfull world outside these monochomic, monotonic, pasteurazed, restricted, awful little world that Holiwood/TV/videogames is.
Just try! You never wiil can go back
Peace and culture for allones!
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Gun Control
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re: Ed
but i must argue with you on some points. don't jump at me to read a book or whatever. there are some "bad books" out there. mein kamph, a few satanism books...witchcraft and whatnot? in all forms of media there is content that is "bad" but as you said, there are "good" choices. however, the issue methinks, is the willingness to engage in those activites. if someone only wants evil bad stuff, that's what they'll get.
and i don't mind the parental advisory stuff. as long as i'm able to view what i want as an adult, it's fine by me. if my kids want "bad" stuff, ok. we'll have a discussion about what it means and all, and overall have good parenting.
(well, if i had kids)
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Playing Angel's Advocate
"Though I may disagree with what you say I will duel to the death to defend your right to say it." - Voltaire
Freedom to oppose and disagree to what affects the national community is also a part of freedom of speech.
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Violent Video Games Good
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MEDIA INFLUENCE
MEDIA is big business, they don't care what damage they my cause, they just watch their money. "few must pay for the many"
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