Would Jesus Get Music From P2P Networks?
from the respect-my-moral-authoritah dept
Movie studios and record labels have tried a number of different approaches to fighting piracy: lawsuits, law changes, hacking, even setting up their own private police force -- just about everything except, you know, actually trying to compete against it. Movie studios have also tried to guilt people to stop downloading movies, by having ridiculously well-paid actors tell moviegoers that downloading hurts the movie industry's "little people", and now the Christian music industry is getting in on the act by trying to cast downloading and file-sharing as a moral issue. While apparently the RIAA and MPAA feel that the mere existence of piracy morally justifies their extreme actions, the president of a gospel music trade group says his organization "certainly" can address piracy as a moral issue and expects it to better resonate with his audience than the general public. Of course, just because they make religious music doesn't mean they're too different from the secular groups, as the guy says of downloading, "It's like stealing. You wouldn't walk into a Christian bookstore and steal a Bible off the shelf," when, of course, copyright infringment isn't theft at all. Apparently a lot of young Christian music fans see downloading as "helping spread the word" -- which, either in a promotional or religious sense, they're doing, since Christian music sales are growing strongly. So chalk up one more similarity to those Hollywood heathens: these religious music groups badly misunderstand the value of free music as a promotional tool, whether it's promoting other products or their religious message.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
It's hard to imagine fans with music tastes eclectic enough to embrace all the artists on that list. But as a collective, the sector just got some great news. Christian music sales, both on CD and via paid download, over the first six months of 2006 were 11% higher than during the same period in 2005. That double-digit surge stands in stark contrast to the rest of the music industry, which experienced a 4% decline during the same time period. And no other genre has a 2006 sales jump anywhere near the level of the Christian sector.
When the six-month numbers were released, industry leaders said the figures showed that efforts such as the "Millions of Wrongs" campaign were making in-roads. But that view may be a leap of faith, says Joe Fleischer, chief of marketing for Big Champagne, a top barometer of online media activity.
Fleischer said the uptick in Christian music sales was more than matched by a jump in Christian music that was traded on peer-to-peer networks, e-mailed as file attachments and (the new popular mode of youth distribution) via digital files tucked into instant messages.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Free Music as Promotional Tool?
Wow... I can truly respect the argument up until that last sentence. Music companies for YEARS have respected the value of FREE MUSIC as a promotional tool. Is that your argument?
Viewing piracy as "competition" is simply smart, but a line is stil drawn in the sand as to whether it should somehow coerce publishers into not trying to enforce their rights under a capitalist society.
"Free music as promotion" does not equate to piracy. Don't get it twisted.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Free Music as Promotional Tool?
And yes If I was a successful Artist I would release my Cd on a torrent site weeks before the label actually released it. Those records will sell regardless of wheter or not it's on the internet for free. The majority of i my money would come from appearences, shows and other merchandise. I've paid 10 bucks for a couple of key chains of bands and now way was that worth it but I still liked it and bought it. It pays to realease the material on torrent sites for free because of the idiots like me that'll pay for way overpriced tickets and then pay for the insanely overpriced t shirts and parpahnelia. I'm sorry to say that "piracy" can't be use effectively just doesn't make sense to me....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Jesus could work miracles
He would take a stack of blank CDs and turn them into the Beatles discography.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Jesus could work miracles
Big deal, I can do that.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Cleric takes half damage....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Bible thieves?
First of all...
1. Not a lot of people are after bibles. They're often given away, and there are many free bibles online.
2. Most Christians, if someone walked into their bookstore, and stole a bible, would let the theif go and let him keep the bible, with the advice, "Give it a read."
Okay, maybe not most Christians, but those with a good understanding of their faith would.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Funny you should say that...
A friend had a bible stolen recently. His only comment was "Perhaps they needed it more than I".
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Lest we forget...
The question is not one of right or wrong but one of "am I costing someone a sale?". This is where current copyright laws falls down; this is not a question of copying but of commercial exploitation.
For some people, downloading music is like listening to the radio - a way to sample the music before making a purchasing decision (albeit without the shackles of radio station playlists). For others it is like taping off the radio - a poor-quality substitute for those who cannot afford to buy. For still others, it is a way to freeload without buying anything, even though you can afford to.
The RIAA wants to believe that all of us fall into the last group. However, the spike in Christian music sales, along with the success of groups like the Arctic Monkeys, have proved them spectacularly wrong.
Nothing in this article comes as a surprise - my conclusion is that those who listen to Christian Music would have the ethical restraint to go out and buy it if they liked it to a greater extent than the general population.
Or, as the Master would put it, "Render unto Caesar..."
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Lest we forget...
No you are not, I wouldn't buy some of the shit out there. But I might dl it because I get it free and that's what it's worth to me
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Good point!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Parables and Analogies
Ok... so filesharing is like feeding the poor. God, do you people hear yourselves? I'll simply say this. Feed someone for today, and they're hungry tomorrow. Download a song today, and you'll have it forever. Real close analogy ya got there. It's interesting how the reverb is in here... :: echo chamber ::
I'll grant you this though, I'm sure the music industry felt back in the day, that Napster was the Anti-Christ. Given the subscription model today, I'm sure Napster could still do a sacreligious t-shirt or two... I can imagine that cat-face with a robe on the mount...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
He's baaaaaack...
No, no, no. That is not what I said, and it is not what I meant. Please do not draw conclusions from words that I did not say. In return I will not draw conclusions about the exact location of the reverb.
My point - which you apparently missed - was that duplicates were apparently created that did not compromise the original. This biblical example is therefore a good analogy to the technology of file copying, particularly when compared with the Content industry's habit of comparing file copying with theft from a store shelf.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Would Jesus Get Music From P2P Networks?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Sharing is caring.
Both are Christian phrases.
Besides, how can you sell music you gave to God?
He owns it and I am sure he would want you to share his praise with the world.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Sharing is caring.
Both are Christian phrases.
One of them is a Man Law...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Bibble babble
Would a Christian restrict the liberty of their brother simply in order to line their own pockets?
Copyright is not Christian.
(¢)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Most bibles ARE public domain...
If you worked as a bible translatior, would you do it for nothing?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Entitlement should be a crime
While downloading form P2P or anywhere shouldn't be considered immoral nor illegal, it should require actual ownership of those items. Downloading music and keeping it indefinately without purchasing it would be literal theft. If you don't like it enough to buy it, then don't listen to / read / watch it - simple as that. If you own it, then by all means you should be allowed to download it, copy it, do whatever you want with it since you OWN it. Too many people who argue in favor of P2P don't distinct ownership from stealing because they think there is some magical difference between something someone created on paper and something someone created electronically. They still created it - usually from nothing. It should be cheaper to purchase something online because it costs them less to distribute it, but it should be free ONLY once you have already purchased it. You shouldn't automatically get it for free, nor should you have to pay repeatedly for the same thing.
Those of you who think I am wrong may feel free to spend your time creating something and then giving it away for free to everyone. I know that Open-Source works for the most part, but it is NOT representative of real open-market economics. Try creating something from scratch and profit SOLELY off donation from EVERYONE including companies and see how well you do - you're asking the music artists to do the same thing.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Entitlement should be a crime
If you don't like it enough to buy it, then don't listen to / read / watch it - simple as that.
it's not that plain nor is anything resembling simple. you can totally like something and not like it enough to pay for it. that's why people wait for movies to come out on video, or on cable, or even network TV instead of going to see them in theaters. that's why radio works, why libraries work, and that's why downloading works... people can try whatever they like, risk free, and then decide what to put their money into.
so based on that logic, borrowing a book from a friend is stealing? (if i want read it, i should buy it) how about having my friend drive me to the airport? (if i want to fly i should take a cab or pay to park my car) what about splitting a pizza with my wife? (if she wants pizza she can buy her own) what about inviting my friends over to watch a rented movie or a pay per view event?
how am i supposed to find out if i like something enough to buy it if i can't experience it without buying it? in the real world you can test drive a car or sit in a chair before you buy it. how do you test drive intellectual property before you pay for it?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Idol
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Idol
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
WWJD
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: WWJD
Time to silk screen 5,000 What Would Jesus Download t's with a portion of the profit going the the church
*Do not read this it is not important a 1% profit share will be donated
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Jesus comments on filesharing
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: chucklebutte
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: chucklebutte
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: chucklebutte
If you are talking about the God of the bible you should spend some time in HIS word. HE is our heavenly FATHER and created hell for Satan and his demons. If you do not believe in hell then you do not believe in the bible in turn you have created you own God which doesn't exist.
". . . the fiery hell" Matt: 5:22; "soul and body in hell" (Matt. 10:28); "the unquenchable fire" (Matt. 9:43); ". . . outer darkness . . . weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matt. 22:13)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Long reply removed
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
but like i said, i don't believe anyone OWNS the copyrights to the bible.
so, what's the big deal? i can have a copy of just about every book ever made. i go to my library, borrows so many books, scan each one, then return. repeat process as neccessary. problem? inet is so much faster. i guess the AAs are fine with ci, so long as it takes more than a click here and there.
and i will go back to a point, how long should artists get paid? i mean, if i make something and sell it, i.e. a custom system or whatever, can i recharge the customer later down the road? i think people would get upset about it. so why is it ok for the aa's to do?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Doing so could only help to promote the Word of God and the artisit themselve. They can still sell Albums, make them worthwhile to buy people will still buy it, and if they tend to hear more then one good song on it they chances are much greater. Plus they have concerts. As long as the artist is good, the music trendy, and for christian values the Word is upheld, people will come and everyone will make money!
God Bless...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
So why don't you do it...
I am as discontented with the copyright laws as anyone else here, but holding your hand out and expecting everyone else to just give you stuff is somewhat immature, to put it mildly.
Instead, why not push for change in copyright laws and recording contracts in which the artists actually get paid?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
hmm
Christian music still costs money to produce... and christian artists still need to eat. You don't like their industry? Vote with your ears...find something else to listen too.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
New Generation
"It is easier for a cammel to enter the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Jail
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I heard Jesus shares his gatorade
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: I heard Jesus shares his gatorade
I resent your inaccuracy. Christians kill just as much as Muslims, if not more. George Bush, a Christian, with his unjust war on Iraq, has killed a hundred thousand innocent Iraqi's...so far. Bin Laden killed 3,000 American people on 9/11. I'd say the Muslims are way behind on the kill count.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: I heard Jesus shares his gatorade
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
How dare you.
There goes your credibility.
Every day I see things said about God and Jesus (see elsewhere in this thread) that I find distasteful and/or offensive. However, I respect the rights of others to speak freely, even if it makes them obnoxious. Interestingly, I have seen few such comments about Islam. I wonder why?
So far, the Muslims have not shown the same level of tolerance - scrawl some anti-muslim cartoons and there is an international outcry. Write a book that is less than 100% supportive of Islam and wait for the fatwa.
Christians are supposed to be willing to die for their faith, and many still do. The corrent crop of Muslims seem to think it is okay to kill for theirs, and their leadership refuses to condemn this violence.
And you dare to compare the two.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
music sharing before napster
If you were unhappy with the quality or wanted to original case/album art or just liked the music, you would buy your own copy. But just like today, if you found there was only one song on the whole album you wanted, you either bought the 45 (like a CD single today) or made your own mix-tape with the songs you liked the most.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
More Shit
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Yes, Jesus love P2P, the Bible tells me so...
Jesus wants to upload the software right out of your brain when you die.... let's hope he leaves the RIAA and MPAA types to rot in hell with reruns of Gilligan's Island.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Tax Collecters
RIAA & MPAA are tax collecters for the music industry
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Tax Collecters
I don't think the music ind. compares to the house of God. Actually, any comparison to Jesus' actions and downloading music is pretty poor. Jesus had every right to multiply the fish and loaves, He made them both. Taking anything of value without paying is wrong.
I agree keep religion out of this, but the title is "Would JESUS Get Music From P2P Networks?"
They started it!
Jesus loves you!! (I can't resist)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
It's the whole paid clergy thing.....
Once a man profits financially from the Lord's work, is he fully on the Lord's errand? We are so acclimated to the idea of wealth through gospel that it doesn't register with us any more.
And no, not all churches have paid clergy.
NV
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Poor Rich Musicians
The recording companies will need to learn how to restructure and take less. Also artists would need to take a little less also. Maybe they would need to forfit one of their fancy import cars or weekend getaways to 5 star resorts. And maybe we will need to refine our tastes to good honest music rather then supporting bands that need the extra dough to send their voices through fancy mixers, have loads of plastic surgery (because it's not their voice we are interrested in) and whatever else that trips our triggers about todays artists.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Thank you
[ link to this | view in chronology ]