I'm Sorry, You Can't Use That Deduction: It's Patented
from the say-what? dept
It's no secret that we have some problems with the way the patent system is set up, especially when it comes to things like business method patents. However, sometimes a situation comes along that so perfectly explains the problems with these types of patents, there's just not much to add. John Bennett at Against Monopoly points us to a NY Times/International Herald Tribune piece that talks about the rise of patented tax strategies. Yes, certain financial firms are patenting their tax strategies, and then claiming no one else can use them to reduce their taxes. In one case, a financial firm has actually sued the chairman of Aetna for daring to use its strategy to reduce taxes. The IHT article claims that 50 tax reduction patents have been granted and many more are pending. A recent article in Fortune claimed that there are another 81 tax reduction patents pending. That Fortune article points out why this is patently ridiculous: "tax advice hinges on interpretations of the law and... the law should be available to everyone equally, without the need to pay a licensing fee." Not so in our wonderful world of patents.
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next: patent a legal defense
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Re: next: patent a legal defense
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Im Appaled
I Love the U.S.A. , but it's a good thing the president can't read this and congress and the senate are too busy trying to fondle minors.
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Re: Im Appaled
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Re: Re: Im Appaled
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Re: Im Appaled
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Re: Re: Im Appaled
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Audit
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Re: Audit
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http://www.fairtax.org/
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Re:
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Everyone has to pay taxes?
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WOO!
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Students do get sick
And of course, there are high school chemistry experiments that go horribly wrong when the bullies decide to point the chemicals at nerd-boy's face.
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Re: Students do get sick
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Re: Students do get sick
Ridiculous.
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possible spam
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Re: possible spam
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Tax planning big buisness
for one such plan. The client does not pay for the right to use it, but rather the planner does.
Most tax planning can only be done with a buisness owener when there is more than one tax payer. exp. C or llc to pass the income between the owner and the coproration.
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Re: Im Appaled by Some Guy
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Collective stupidity
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"It's W's fault!".... "No, it was Clinton's fault"... "Bullshit, remember Reagan?"... "one word: Carter!"... "Republicans!"... "Democrats!"
What good does that crap do ANYBODY? Right or wrong? THAT'S the argument they want us to get bogged down in. They're screwed if we ever actually debated an ISSUE with the same emotion and energy we've been conditioned into arguing the previous paragraph.
We face serious problems today. Things aren't black and white. This noise benefits NO ONE* - in fact, it is the definition 'counter-productive'.
* actually, it does benefit some - those R's and D's whoring themselves for re-election. I can say this from FIRST HAND experience (spent 5 years in high-level politics). Not bragging - I'm apologizing. This is a pre-meditated strategy in play - I have actually been in the room with Member(s) of the US House "strategizing" with paid staff on how to keep the voting public split 50-50. THAT is your tax dollar at work in 2006. That's the only way to ensure nothing ever gets done while each Party's core base stays VERY pissed off and sending the donations. Since legislators draw their own districts (essentially), it is virtually impossible for an incumbant to lose re-election in such a district when the country's population as a whole is split 50-50 on the "issues of the day".
Think about it. I'm 32 years old and vividly remember my 3rd-grade teacher trying to explain the Social Security system to my class. She gave up half-way thru by uttering "you guys will never see it anyway." That's at least 20 years that common-sense has dictated there are serious flaws in the system. What's been done? I'm not asking what's been proposed - thats the game they play to energize the base and mailing checks. What's even been TRIED (not floated, actually tried)? If they solve the problem, there's nothing to argue about in 2 years when it's time to get re-elected - I should put quotes around that since my own ears heard it come from a (household-name) elected Member. Name a hot-button issue besides war/terrorism, and then ask yourself how long you remember it being a hot-button issue. 10 years? 20? Likely 30+... I exclude terrorism/war because on 9-10 nobody saw that coming, and no one tried to spin it for their own *blatantly obvious* political gains for about 2 years. It took those 2 years to plan how to use it, but 2 years wasn't enough for those fools - 25-30% are about to be booted from office as a result of that plan...
I could go on and on about this, but many of my best anecdotes are totally, 100% unbelievable - I mean laughed-off-this-site unbelievable. Names you would recognize - lots of them. I get so worked up recalling this stuff that I start babbling...
To re-iterate my original point: the more polarized we are as a people, the more we guarantee the status-quo. The normal public (you and I), regardless of our party affiliations should be able to agree that the status-quo IS the problem. Politics is the art of compromise. Not sure when exactly we lost that notion, but we'd better find it again soon.
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Re: brilliant stuff
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Re: Brian
I am your age, but do not have any of your political experience. I do, however, read profusely, and have learned to pull back the curtain and see what's really at work. I am now to the point that I do not care who wins ANY election but the local elections which I can actually have some influence over.
You people want real change? Start with yourself - your home town - your county. That's where real change happens. But that kind of change takes personal effort, and it doesn't happen quickly. We are addicted to the quick fix. Pick any decaying governmental construct, whether the patent system, copyright law, etc. None of it fell apart overnight, and there is nothing that can fix it overnight.
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Brian's Comment
Name names...
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brians comments
unfourtunately there are too many sheeple these days and not enough thinking men/women left who care about the people than themselves.
you say we have lost the art of compromise, i say how can you compromise when both sides are activly working together to keep the power amongst themselves and only giving us a dog & pony show of elections.
What saddens me to no end is while congress enjoys only a 12-25% approval rating there are no real political leaders to step up and fill the void of leadership.
it leaves one with the only option of going with the lesser of two evils.
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You people...
There is nothing in this thread but bitch after gripe after bitch.
Instead of looking for the perfect leader to follow, why don't you stand up and BE one.
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Re: You people...
I kid. Believe me, if we could, we would be the perfect leader.
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That leader will have to be able to take the hits from the media (which is the single greatest cause of political civil war in this country) and learn to adapt to the threats rather than try to eliminate them as our politicians do today.
People, try to realize, the only difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that the Democrats allow the poor to be corrupt, too. They know this, but you don't.
Quote:
Uniboy- "Instead of looking for the perfect leader to follow, why don't you stand up and BE one."
If they did you wouldn't know. The vast majority of elections are local so I doubt you'd ever find out if they did. The only real election that you'd know if they won is the Presidential election. Other than that you'd have to be uncommonly interested in every US city to find out.
I'm nineteen years old. If a teenager can see the real issues then adults can too. Stop getting caught up in your perfect bubble world views and stop letting religion influence your opinions. For once people, think for yourselves. Most of our political problems, if not all, would be solved if people thought for themselves. So rather than ask you to assume a role among these corrupt leaders of ours unprepared, I ask you all to change your way of thinking to that of openness. If we all think for ourselves, we will achieve our goals. Not everything you want has to be 100%. You can compromise, it won't kill you.
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abusive tax shelter
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Re: abusive tax shelter
This is the closest thing to a fact I could find in your ridiculous post. Care to back it up, or do you just want to admit that you made it up?
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IF they patent all methods
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Re: IF they patent all methods
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Fair Tax
Ok Bleeding Heart Liberals... Oh the poor will get lost in the system... Shit if they have no money then they need to spend money on food and shelter and not Name Brand clothing, Cell phones, and other luxeries that do not need.
For once it would be nice to see people live within their means... Meaning spend less than you bring home!
If you want more and can not afford it, NO 5 FINGER DISCOUNT either! Get a second job you lazy bums!
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Yet another reason
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Patent Grammar
For example:
"there" in place of "their" or perhaps "they're"
I'm gonna be rich!
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Re: Patent Grammar
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Bring on the Flat Tax
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Re: Bring on the Flat Tax
However, people will always complain that the way they are taxed is unfair; if we have a federal sales tax, people won't like that either. Any tax reform we propose will meet fervent opposition because someone will be paying more taxes than they previously were.
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Re: Brian's comment
To address uniboy, It's not that easy to stand up and be one.
I think it's fair to say that most men and women get into government positions to make a difference, at least that's how they get started. The thing is, once you get there you have to play the game or you'll be ousted or framed.
In Canada, our three-party system has broken down to the same mud-slinging level. The platforms for our last election, for Prime Minister were based on: "he's going to do this and I'm going to stop him!" Brian was right when he said they have to keep the status quo. There is no one here to vote for and no party. They're all saying the same thing and even the original intention of the party, left, right or down the middle has meshed so well we can't tell the difference. Not to mention the number of people "crossing the floor."
As for the tax issue, do the people that work for these tax firms have to sign over their rights to their ideas, formulas and/or systems? What gives the company the right to patent a program? Who really has ownership?
It's the same as all the other current trends of how to make more money. We have to pay for everything, including information and the companies patenting the "tax programs" (I didn't know you could do that - thought it had to be a physical "thing" or "device") are culling money from a new source. And that's what we're all doing. All the things that used to be courtesies or "customer service" are now chargeable. I don't feel that it's right but hell, the banks have been getting away with it for years. It's insidious and by the time one recognizes that it's happening, it's too late to do anything about it.
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Flat, Fair, VAT, Cat Rat Bat
Set term limits, make serving the country an expression of service not a career.
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Brian
2. Good grammar/spelling gets more attention than bad grammar/spelling - because, we can read and understand the message - even if we don't like/agree with it.
3. Fair tax may well be the way to go - and won't happen until all political positions are limited to no more than two terms elected. And don't be surprised if GW wants to change that law, too.
4. I am voting libertarian in my state this year (for the most part). I used to be a D, and before that a(n) R - but have always voted for whomever I thought might make a difference. This year, the Rs are offensive in my State, and the Ds are mostly outright criminals. I don't agree with all the libertarians have to propose, either, but at least it is a statement the other two might understand.
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THAT'S IT!
I'm PATENTING THE PATENT PROCESS! EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO PATENT SOMETHING HAS TO PAY ME, AND I GET TO DECIDE WHO PATENTS WHAT! FURTHERMORE, I SHALL NOW PATENT MURDER, HATE CRIMES, RAPE, THEFT ... aw, hell - I'm going to send for a patent on all Felony charges - someone else can take the misdemeanors. EVERYONE convicted of a crime will have to PAY ME in patent rights! I am now the sole owner of Felony charges !(Patent Pending ...), and I will SUE !
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Re: THAT'S IT!
PEACE AND FREEDOM TO AMERICA
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Re: THAT'S IT!
PEACE AND FREEDOM TO AMERICA
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Good points everyone
"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country!"
Sadly many people don't want to think for themselves, they like being led by some greater power, and let that entity (be that either a god or a governmental entity) make all the hard decisions...
We, in The Netherlands, also had a campaign long ago, which said: "A better world starts with yourself". Let's all change just a little, to be more open to others, and accept that everyone is different, and alike at the same time.
Now about this whole Tax deduction patent scandal. Would these really hold up in court? Not that anyone would like to challenge them. (perhaps that's the main problem, no-one is willing to invest time and money to challenge these ludicrous patents and pending patents)
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Taxes in general
I, for one, hate that our tax dollars are spent on companies who don't have to bid (or are the only bidder) and government mucky-mucks who get their personal properties reno'd at our expense; the ad-scam is a big thorn in our side...
IF (ya, right) the PTB'S should ever let us in on their actual budgets (a.k.a. hidden agendas) we may not have half the resentment at having to pay taxes! As my brother once suggested, why don't they make everybody buy lottery tickets from them, instead of paying taxes. At least that way, we'd have some chance of recovering lost income by winning the jackpot. Who wouldn't buy tickets in anticipation of getting a ton of dough from the government?
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