Best Buy Repeats Past Attempts At Unfairly Forcing Black Friday Prices Off The Web
from the cease-and-desist-just-for-the-hell-of-it dept
Back in 2002, we had a story about Wal-Mart forcing the site FatWallet to take down post-Thanksgiving sale prices, claiming they were a copyright violation. Of course, as everyone should know, you can't copyright facts -- and prices are facts. FatWallet fought back, challenging this abuse of the DMCA -- which forced Wal-Mart to backdown. The following year, other retailers, including Best Buy, Target and Kohl's threatened FatWallet again. Apparently, Best Buy learned absolutely nothing from the experience, as they've gone and threatened another site, BlackFriday, for posting the same information this year. Unlike FatWallet, however, BlackFriday has backed down and taken down the information -- even though they have no legal reason to. It's clear that Best Buy (whose lawyers clearly know better) are simply betting that in using a cease & desist DMCA claim, even if it's not valid, they can scare the site into taking the content down -- which is exactly what happened. That's a clear abuse of the DMCA, creating the famed "chilling effects." However, as it stands, there's simply no punishment for abusing the DMCA this way and there are few entities willing to actually stand up against such a misuse.
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hmm
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Yeah....
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best buy
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what
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Oh well...
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Maybe we're wrong...
First, recall stories about allofmp3.com; every attempt to shut it down make it go away, etc, only give it more popularity and more publicity, in the end driving more people there.
Now in this case, what if Best Buy is ordering cease and desist warnings just to generate publicity (after all, any publicity is good publicity). If true, I don't think they intended for the ads to be removed, but it also created more buzz, and i driving more people to perhaps seek out the add (via file sharing, torrents, Usenet, or wherever) who otherwise would not have taken the time to check it out.
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Re: Maybe we're wrong...
It could be, but I don't think their lawyers think like that--After all, they're lawyers.
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Re: Maybe we're wrong...
It could be, but I don't think their lawyers think like that--After all, they're lawyers.
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Now if you go in, ask to speak with someone and you look mildly professional and you remain calm and friendly, are only there to "inform them of the benefit of the website they sent the notice to" you might get as high as a midlevel manager.
Protesting needs a makeover. To impact corporate America, you need to play by their rules, which is look professional, act professional even if you want to punch them in the freaking head.
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Re: protest stylings
Really - which kid is going to get the toy? The one quietly asking Mommy please or the one sitting on the floor kicking and screaming.
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Re: Re: protest stylings
vote with your $$$, stop supporting businesses that operate like this. money is the only vote that still works.
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Already In Trouble
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Re: Already In Trouble
So, on another Crusade, are we?
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Re: Already In Trouble
The stores say "Happy Holidays" because despite what you christian-taliban think, the christian holiday isn't the only religious holiday being observed near the winter solstice.
Christians seem to need / thrive on a persecution complex. I've never seen a group of people who so tightly hold on to the notion that they're being persecuted -- even when they're in the majority.
You act insulted when store personnel don't assume you're a christian. My faith isn't yours -- and I'm glad I live in country where separation of church and state is guaranteed. Freedom from religion is the necessary foundation of freedom of religion.
I'll pray that you become more enlightened (just not to your god.)
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Re: Re: Already In Trouble
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Where's Fritz Hollings when you need him?
Just remember, you can't trust any politicians.
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Re: Where's Fritz Hollings when you need him?
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The gays are destroying the traditional family, which is the backbone of our society for over 200 years (if it ain't broke, don't fix it), and the minority groups won't even let us observe our own holidays anymore. If I went to, for example, Israel, I'd expect to see Hannukah stuff all over, not Christmas. But I'm not in Israel, I'm in the USA, which was a country founded on strong Christian values, and last I checked, "Freedom of Religion" is still in our bill of rights. There should be no reason whatsoever for businesses to remove traditional holiday observations from their marketing. Any lawsuits to that end should be deemed frivilous and thrown out of the courts, because they certainly don't represent the majority opinion from the citizens of this country.
Furthermore, I strongly disagree with companies that excersize such underhanded business practices as mentioned above. Any business that feels the need to misuse our justice system for stupid little reasons like this will get little to no support from me. Companies like this need to be taught lessons, and if we actively boycott companies like this, they will eventually get the message, because their sales will be hurting bigtime.
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Re:
Now, on to BB. It is there company than can handle their ad campaign anyway they want. I don't think it is going to hurt them, I live right outside Washington DC, and if I want to buy an electronic device I don't have many options beside BB. I couldn't imagine living further from a city, because you have no choice besides BB.
Regarding the cease and desist order, I agree completely with whoever said "any publicity is good publicity", that is all the lawsuit was meant for. The lawyers just found a way to talk about there "holiday" sales. Is it right, no. But to the same extent, who is the lawyer for this website, that so easily gave in to stupid demands? That is the real question.
WalMart, I hate Walmart go to Target instead. Enough said.
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Re: Founded on Strong Christian Values
In 1796, the US Senate voted on, and unanimously approved the Treaty of Tripoli which specifically stated the country was in NO WAY founded on the christian faith.
You're free to exercise your religion in any way you wish -- you're just not free to force it on me.
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Re:
Give me a break! Stop trying to blame the gays for the degradation of the traditional family...straight people are at fault as they are the ones actually in the family. You should know should know by now that the strength of a family comes from within. Weak families fall apart due to exterior influence. Are your convictions so fragile that the mere thought of some local man-on-man action is actually destroying your family?
I, a straight American man, raised Christian btw, find it ridiculous that "Christian" America has such a problem with gay marriage/civil union when marriage straight marriages have a ~50% divorce rate. I find that to be a far worse mockery of the concept of marriage that a homosexual partnership.
I do agree with you that "Happy Holidays" is pretty lame. But if you want to hear "Merry Christmas", you have to be ready to hear "Happy Everything else" (Sorry all other religions :) )
Freedom of religion is in our bill of rights, along with a lot of other freedoms. You need to learn that ..."this land is your land, this land is my land"... share friend, that's all I'm saying.
This is America so either get accustomed to the idea of tolerating people with different values and beliefs, or get yourself a crucifix and some holy water and lock yourself in your basement until the rapture. :)
...cue the fire and brimstone...
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Re:
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Re: Re:
Shacking up, single parenthood, quickie (no fault) divorce...need I go on? Its no wonder that so many marriages end in divorce.
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Re:
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BestBuy
They cater to the unknowing electronic consumer with their inflated prices/services, long lines, atrocious return policy, and their obnoxious snot nose uneducated staff. again, just my opinion.
I would take the time to research the technology you wish to purchase then find a good online company to purchase it at, at a much lower cost without our corrupt government sales tax and have it shipped to your door.
Merry Christmas
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Half of all legally sanctioned, heterosexual marriages in the United States have ended in divorce. A fifty percent failure rate says to me, its broken. And it has nothing to do with gays. If two gay men get married, how do3es that in any way weaken my marriage to my wife, and in what way is it their problem?
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Re: Country going down!
The only non-Christian President of the United States of America. Go read a book or something.
Oh, and do not criticize people for using slang when you can not even use proper sentance structure, grammar, or capitalization. And the abreviation "WTF" is a form of internet slang. Despite what some people in California think, Ebonics is not a language and should not be accepted as such.
As someone who as studied several religions, I can say without a doubt that religious bias and stereotypes have ruined the vast majority of those religions. To say that seperation of church and state is bad just proves your ignorance. I do not want my government to tell me how to worship a higher power that I may or may not believe in, and I certanly don't want Fallwell or Swaggert running this country.
I agree that speaking English should be required of citizens, but it is not currently the law. You have the right to complain about it (First Amendment). It's how you complain that makes the difference between being a biggot and being someone who cares about the welfare of the country.
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Re: Re: Country going down!
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Re: Re: Re: Country going down!
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Re: Country Going Down #23
The constitution and history is clear that we were not founded on christianity. You mistake the Pilgrims with the Founders.
You don't like separation of church and state? Move to Iran, Somolia or any of the other countries where fundamentalists of some faith or another are killing folks over which version of god they worship.
Prior to the 60's? You mean before the voting rights acts when blacks "knew their place"? The years have clouded your judgement. The 50's were a great time -- if you were WHITE, PROTESTANT and MALE. For all others, it sucked.
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Sick of all the crap
so, if that's the case, why is the right wing saying one thing and doing another? plus it's been shown that gay families have a stronger household (filled with love and caring) than most hetero homes. and divorce rates for gays are less than hetero couples. spousal abuse is lover, right? if the gays are destroying the family, then what the hell are the heteros doing to it?
now, i don't claim that the liberal democrats are perfect angels. we have our fair share of sex scandals and divorce. but we don't pride ourselves on being the christian moral voice.
Oh, and one more thing. For a party that is very anti-day, you sure do have quite a few gay members.
response anyone?
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oh, youz izn't able to.
next, showz me the law that mizakes english the offical language.
bitch can't. dumb fool
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More on topic now...
... that my rant is over.
Best Buy wants the ads stopped to reduce the number of people who are coming in to buy only the sale items. The markdown on those items is a sales concept called "Loss-Leader" and it is very common. For example, your local grocer sends out a weekly sales ad showing what is on sale. Those sale items are typically closer to the back of the store and near complimentary items that are not on sale. A specific example would be a sale on BrandX Tortila Chips and those chips would be located next to a big display of BrandZ Salsa and BrandB Cheese Sauce that are not on sale.
If the ads stayed online it would increase the number of people who are only interested in the marked down prices which results in a net loss instead of a net profit. The only thing keeping these stores from stopping the net ads is that the sales prices are fact.
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Re: More on topic now... and the right site this t
Some of you may bring up that BB and Wal-mart aren't competitors, but in many areas they are. In my hometown, they practically share a parking lot. To the wife who is buying a tv for dad, 1080p versus 1080i means nothing. The logic is "Who cares if it's a Sylvania (or Westinghouse) instead of a Samsung (or Phillips) when I can get one that is 3" bigger for $300 less?" These circulars all go out in the same papers, and bargain hunters don't care what the store name is.
I'm sure many of you are thinking, why would I buy at WM or BB when I could buy it online cheaper? Well that's you, a techdirt reader, not the millions of soccer moms out there that beat down doors every year.
It's happening. I see a push towards Apple type secrecy with Black Friday sales starting next year. I love to see pesky consumers get in the way of companies sticking it to us. Everyone is going to try their best to undercut their competitors. I think a movement should be started to make Black Friday be the national holiday in honor of capitalism. I think Adam Smith Day should work just fine. Everyone outside of retail has the day off already anyways right?
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Re:
The important thing is that I got my other points across.
Let this be a lesson to everyone: Always double and triple check the reported facts of anyone with a sleep disorder! LOL
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to bad
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if you are putting an item on sale, it is probably because you either:
have a surplus of the item because they werent selling, and you kept having more shipped to you... or maybe you got a boatload at a great price.., that or you just need to get rid of the slightly old/becoming outdated item... and putting it on sale, will help you do so.. giving you space for newer, more in-demand brand/items, etc etc.......
not so that when you come in, and SEE monitor xyz on sale, you MIGHT want to buy highly overpriced usb hard drive, and highly overpriced other misc item..
so.. if someone were to extend your advertising for you..
in turn, helping you sell your surplus/less desired stock, you should be praising them, not trying to f*ck them in the @ss (gay pun not intended, but its there anyways, just the way I talk/write)
my $0.02
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same ole...
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No it's not. It's a cult.
Me - "why are you catholic"
Catholic - "well, duh, cause my mom and dad are"
Me - "so you never really studied any other religions or
had deep thought about what you believe to be the truth?"
Catholic - "Uh, no. I just believe what all these other catholics tell me to believe"
Same can be said about most religions but Catholics are by far the worst.
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Live and let live (you lost by the way)
I'm not a fan of political correctness myself either, so Marry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Quanza, and my the good Lord bless you with some tolerance on this holiday season.
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Re: God on Money and in Pledge
The "god clauses" were added to money in the 50's in our zeal to differentiate ourselves from those "godless commies" i the soviet union.
God was added to our Pledge of Allegiance in 1954 in the same manner.
Geez, a little history would go a long way to curing you FOX-news-believing idiots...
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Re: Re: God on Money and in Pledge
Every single bill, before it leaves my hands, will be stamped with In God We Trust in big, BOLD red letters.
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Feeling the pinch
Don't just stop shopping at Best Buy. Call their corporate office and tell them that you're not going to shop there and exactly why. It might also be a good idea to let your local store manager know too. They always funnel that sort of stuff back to corporate.
Companies don't listen to people peeing in store corners or drunken, raging customers. The do listen to rational, normal people telling them "I'm going somewhere else".
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they don't believe in a god. why should their nation say it is founded under god? why should the only money be in the trust of god?
but smarter men then us have argued.
but we are right, right?
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You have to love it...
Taking some time to think about it, my "Loss-Leader" theory combined with some of the other theories sounds more accurate than any single one of those theories.
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If people are free to be gay, they won't try to force themselves to act heterosexual. There's a lot of marriages ended in divorce when one member simply can't fake straight any longer.
Married gay people do not have biological children (or at least half as many as the couple would in 2 straight relationships)
If "gay" is genetic, then you have just applied a selective pressure against gay. Gay genes get passed on half as often. That = fewer gays, so homophobic people should like that idea.
The thing is if the gay community would just settle on letting people be "unioned" instead of "married" then they would be that much ahead and anger a lot fewer people. Unioned sounds weird and is different from unionized so most people will just call it "married" in the vernacular. So now you've got the difference down to what was on the official paper that you never look at. After gay "union" is common and people have stopped freaking out over it you could then push to get the name changed officially to "marriage" and there'd be a lot less hubub.
Black people didn't go straight from slave to equal rights- they first got freedom, then worked on segregation, then equal opportunity etc. Baby steps work in changing society- big ones just create backlash and anger.
Calm down everyone, BB can whine all they want. I'll still get my paper on Thursday and plan out my friday from there.
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Me and my gay friends
we could care less about the "religious" portion. and before you can get married in a church, you have to go before the judge or whomever to get a marriage license.
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Quite frankly people who shop like that are idiots. They buy inferior equipment to save some money and are the first ones to come back to the sotre and bitch and moan that the thing broke in 3 months and the store doesnt take returns more than 30 days after they bought it. They dont want to deal with the manufacturer and expect the store to eat the 400.00 they sent on the item because they were cheap. If you go buy Chinese garbage at WalMart, thats what you should expect to get.
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Re:
In no way am I saying you are wrong in your statement, but I fail to see the point. If you cut out all the gay/religion banter the discussion is on strategy, not how everyone that isn't a technophile is an idiot for trying to get the most bang for their buck (whatever that may be in their mind).
If we were having a discussion on why countries choose to drive on a given side of the road and you answered with Americans are idiots for driving on the right side of the road, would it be an appropriate statement?
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Re:
In no way am I saying you are wrong in your statement, but I fail to see the point. If you cut out all the gay/religion banter the discussion is on strategy, not how everyone that isn't a technophile is an idiot for trying to get the most bang for their buck (whatever that may be in their mind).
If we were having a discussion on why countries choose to drive on a given side of the road and you answered with Americans are idiots for driving on the right side of the road, would it be an appropriate statement?
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BIG DIFFERENCE HERE!!! Black people didnt decide yo be black. If you choose to live a gay lifestyle then you can live with the consequences!!!!! There is no such thing as discriminating because of ones choice. You made your bed now lie in it with all your gay friends!!!!!
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Re: #51 Joe
There is plenty of evidence that your sexuality is determined by a combination of genetics, hormones and birth order. There is zero evidence that it's a choice. Did you "choose" to be hetero? Could you choose to be otherwise?
The facts conflict with you here -- the real question is will you change your mind when confronted with facts that prove you wrong?
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Re: Re: #51 Joe
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/325979.stm
this is from the BBC you should trust it for it also hates America, your brainwashed from the left, your aiding the communist and you don't know it
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America != Christian
To those who think our country was founded on Christianity, the Father of the Constitution would like a word with you.
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America is a Christian Nation?
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.
Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than thsoe which spring from any other cause. [George Washington, letter to Sir Edward Newenham, June 22, 1792]
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How to protest corporate America and not be arrest
You do not need to invest any of your time in this method. You don't need to make signs or go visiting some overpaid jerk's office. You can't be arrested. It is perfectly legal.
Shop elsewhere. Tell your friends and family to do likewise. Organize a massive protest and get everyone to shop elsewhere this Christmas season.
You might think that you lose because now you have to pay more elsewhere. Well, what does it cost you to protest and then have yourself bailed out of jail - branded a criminal?
What you save is more than a few extra bucks. And aren't those few extra bucks worth telling Best Buy where to go?
For the big corporations like Best Buy, a 10% drop in sales is more than huge at this time of year.
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A bit off topic, are we?
Last I checked, this site is called "techdirt" and the article is about Best Buy using empty threats to have their ad taken down from another site.
There's no reason to be discussing religion, marriage, gay vs. straight, or dirty politicians and their shady politics in this thread.
If I were a moderator, any and all of that crap would be immediately removed--write on your feelings of the article on hand, not on this "my opinion on gays/marriage/religions/politics is right and your opinion on the same is wrong" nonsense.
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