More WiFi Freakouts In The UK
from the get-me-my-tin-foil dept
We're not sure what's going on over the in UK with WiFi, but following the story last week about parents freaking out about WiFi in schools comes a story about a woman who says that her home WiFi router made her sick -- and that she's sensitive enough to tell if there's WiFi in a room as soon as she enters it. It's a claim that plenty of people are dubious of, and one that could be pretty easily tested. Given the proliferation of WiFi access points in towns and cities, you'd imagine this woman would run into problems plenty of places other than her house, too. As in previous stories, there's the claim that WiFi hasn't yet been proven safe. Of course, it hasn't yet been proven unsafe beyond this type of anecdotal evidence, either. And waiting tens of years for long-term studies to vet any new technology before allowing its use would do little more than stifle the benefits it could offer. In the meantime, though, there's always foil beanies. Update: Forget the foil beanies, these hypersensitive people could just slather themselves in anti-electromagnetic radiation cream from a cosmetics company, that's made of "molecules derived from microorganisms living near undersea volcanoes and from plants which survive in extreme conditions such as alongside motorways and in Siberia". There's not much WiFi in those places, so the stuff must work.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
I don't doubt him. Don't be so quick to assume that some people are affected.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Electronics Detection
It is far more likely that you were hearing the high pitched squeals and such that TVs emit from their IF circuitry (many children can just hear it as their high frequency hearing is still that good, I know I could), and perhaps you were also reacting to the outgassing of various epoxies and plastics used on the new circuit boards as they heat up in use which can be a cloying and nauseating smell to some. But it is highly unlikely that it was the electromagnetic energy that was directly affecting you. The science just doesn't support it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Not too far off...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Not too far off...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Feel those Wifi waves
Lets get serious, no one can detect radio waves with their mind. This sounds like some cheesy movie like the Sixth Sense, only instead of dead people you hear routers telling you their SSID. Lol
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Feel those Wifi waves
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Feel those Wifi waves
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
He must go nuts when a cordless phone is being used too right?
How about the radiation from the tv's, crt's and just about everything else electronic?
It should be painfully easy to set up a double-blind test for this. Sounds to me just like the psychics who can bend spoons only if they hold them but put them out of reach and listen to the excuses!
Just go ask the Amazing Randi if he's still got that check of his - last I knew he did.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Wow
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Sensing WIFI
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anyone want $1,000,000
www.randi.org
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
prove it
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Buzz buzz
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Buzz buzz
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Buzz buzz
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
yikes
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
makes me sick too
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Bunch Of BS
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Bunch Of BS (typo)
Typo on my part that line should have "not" removed.
Too bad there is no intention check to run along with spelling and grammar.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Bunch Of BS
Typo on my part that line should have "not" removed.
Too bad there is no intention check to run along with spelling and grammar.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Why am I remeinded of the Salem Witch trials?
Sounds like someone is trying to make some money and what better way than to invent something that is almost impossible to test for.
EtG
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Why am I remeinded of the Salem Witch trials?
How is that a hard test? You could certainly make it more complex but I suspect that you will be able to tell them they are idiots in about 10 minutes.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Why am I remeinded of the Salem Witch trials?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Disability
I have friends in the U.K.. Finding ways to get onto their very generous disability program is something of a sport.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Disability
I fully believe that people suffer from this 'electrohypersensitivity' as a species we evolve, we are more sensitive to a lot of things now than our ancesters were, i have no doubt that some people really can 'feel' wifi, especially as usage is on the increase. It's logical to assume that the more of something there is the easier it is to see/ sense.
I'd point you all to this article:
wifi blues
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I'm Sensitive to this
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Wi-Fi?
Is it true? Have you been making other people sick? What am I to do if ten years down the road my nose falls off, or I fail to awaken from a Mario Kart DS induced coma?
Oh, fate. How you play cruel tricks upon my psyche.....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
We know less about how our body works (especially the brain) than we know about it. Why would this surprise you? Back when asbestos was invented, it was considered a safe, miracle product. How did that turn out? You talk about stopping innovation and advancement, but guess what, do you really want to have people look back and say "what the hell were they thinking?" You have to balance safety with progress, to ignore safety is just plain stupid. Do drug companies put their products on the market before proving them somewhat safe? I don't think so.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
You are George W Bush and I claim my $5.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
That hardly proves a point. Drugs are highly regulated, so the reason they don't put stuff on the market until it's gone through all those tests is because they're required to by the gov't... and many, many people have pointed out why this process has tremendous problems. Medical treatments (both pharmaceutical and other types of treatments) often get delayed well beyond what's reasonable. Other treatments never get off the ground because of the extensive testing (and money) that's necessary. Meanwhile, you still have cases like Vioxx that suggest the process is far from foolproof. Just think about all the treatments that could potentially save lives that are *not* on the market today because of an overly cautious stance?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
CRT's and WiFi
WiFi operates in the 2.4ghz range, with 900mhz and 5.2ghz as well. As does almost any other non licensed Radio Frequency device. Cell phones, cordless phones, microwaves, paging towers for EMS services, and the list goes on and on.
Not saying it's an impossibility, just saying it's more than likely to be a load of BS. As for people being able to tell if their's wifi or not as soon as they walk into an area they need only look for a few key things. Practialy all business complexes now have a huge Omni sticking off the roof, any ATM Cash machines that only have a power cable, spotting someone surfing the web with a laptop, etc...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
?????
However about it being safe, who has ever drove down the freeway? The last time I looked that is still one of the most danagerous things to do. Jumping out of an airplane is safer.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Analog signal
As for safety, we have been using stuff like that for many years. We also know at what frequency the waves become Ionizing. Radio waves are far to wide to cause this. This scare has already happened with cell phones and cancer.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
CRTs
As for the WiFi thing: if it bothers you, just use a velostat hat.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
resonance
What is interesting is if it affects people of different ages, sexes or race in different ways, maybe we can pinpoint a group that seem most vulnerable to the effects to help work out the mechanism.
If I placed a very powerful audio emitter running at 25kHz in a room most people would never even know, but kids under the age of 18 would notice an annoying sensation that causes headaches. It's the same for infrasonics too, sub 10Hz signals are inaudiable to the majority of people but large (fat) people say they feel queasy in their stomachs after exposure. It's all about resonance. So maybe there's some factor that makes certain people sensitive to microwave signals.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: resonance
After five or ten minutes on a cell phone, I too get a mild head ache. I too suspect some minor heating effect, or something similarly odd but utterly inconsequential. I don't think it's an issue with just having a sound pumped in my ear; a normal old-fashioned phone has no such effect. For whatever reason, a cordless phone doesn't either.
But again, I don't imagine it'll cause cancer that'll lead me to turn green, triple in size and go on a rampage. People claiming to instantly know there's a WiFi signal available though, heh. My old boss thought she was psychic. Nod and smile, nod and smile.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
is is plausable to "sense" a 2.4 GHz signal? yes. highly unlikely. but still plausable. most people who can "sense" electronics being on, sense the frequency transmited by various components of said device. and yes, body makeup can help resonate diffferent frequencies. i used to be able to tell if the basement tv was on, just by closing my eyes, and standing at the top of the stairs (cable box was off, no sound coming from the tv) can people hear 2.4 GHZ? as i said, no clue, but most humans can't hear above 4kHz (DSL anyone?) that's not to say it's not possible.
the ozone thning is what happens when "sparks" are made, high enough voltage is produced to break down the air molicules and form ozone.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
There is something to this...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
There is something to this...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Fucking Idiot
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Human rf sensitivity
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Double blind tests
Ok, I propose a simple test. Build two absolutely identical rooms separated by a door. The door is fully shielded as are both rooms.
Now, arrange your device in the ceiling of both rooms with power only provided to one at a time, put half your test candidates in each room and then monitor how many people move between the rooms.
Under normal conditions there should be a 50/50 ratio, if one individual favors one room then this should then null out.
Voila, a totally foolproof double-blind test for electrosensitivity.
Perhaps someone can do this as part of a PhD in Psychology or Biology?
-Andre
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I Have Experienced It
To try and define this I would have to explain the feeling as being similar to having the hairs on your arms go up (the chill effect). That happens at long distance. Shorter or direct contact becomes even more intense with a skin crawling feeling, tingling, and numbing/throbbing pains near joints (throbbing happens randomly, not on every joint/muscle at once). The numbing/throbbing feels like when you close the loop of a 9V battery (i know someone out there has done the old 9V to the tongue trick) or static electricity.
The surface of the "direct contanct" area could be a laptop keyboard handrest-area (directly under an internalized wifi card). Or on the antenna of a Wifi Access Point/Router (linksys brand).
I'm not the type to believe in something that seems as silly as this whole thing, I don't believe in aliens nor do I have the entire collection of X-Files seasons on DVD. I'm just a software developer with no knowledge of this radio technology outside of what I can physically experience.
Yes, I have proven it to family and friends on a recent vacation to Tampa, Florida. While in the city I brought along my laptop with NetStumbler (wifi detection software) and we drove down a street that was heavily populated with tourists, an active nightlife/dining area with people all over. I was able to sense beforehand a network and call it out before NetStumbler announced it. I was also able to generally judge the direction of the device. For example I called out a nearby hotel (Double Tree) and pointed towards the general direction while keeping my head focused down at the laptop screen.
I picked up some devices in less populated areas too, and i also called out when i felt VERY high levels of this stuff, and then suddenly a second later being bombarded with notification-sounds from Netstumbler as it discovered the access points.
The effects of this are more noticeable at night at longer distances but up close or indoors, I immediately know one's near.
It's not a pleasant experience either, not like a soft tapping. It can get as bad as a sharp pain down the back of my neck that occurs randomly. When the device is shut off or I leave, the problem goes away and i feel less tense, more relaxed.
If anyone's in the South Florida area and wants to test me on this I'd be happy to give a demo in a controlled setting (or in a non-controlled one like a living room or kitchen. lol). This stuff isn't difficult at all to prove, I've proven it to friends before and they think it's a pretty neat thing. I don't think it's that cool though, it's like picking up a lot of excess noise and not being able to shut it off. You can imagine how it is for someone like me to walk around say Disney World (they have tonnes of access points all labeled TWDC which i think stands for The Walt Disney Corporation). With the explosion of wifi access points in major cities it can be a real problem.
Thankfully I live in an area with only one wifi signal from a distant neighbor. I once had Wifi in my own home for about 4 years and hadn't recognized this until I turned the thing off for a week. A lot of sleepless nights simply vanished, and I could think more clearly. I'm sure a lot of you just assume this is all in my head. Well you're right, it is all in my head, in fact I'm bathing in the stuff everywhere i go.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Cell-phone induced headaches.
Press your hand against your head for 10 minutes and you'll probably get a pressure induced headache too - no cell phone required - think of all the minutes you'll save to get the same effect.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
What a bunch of nay sayers.
I get it at times using my work Toshiba Tecra laptop, and avoid using it if I can.
I get a worse effect if I use a Netgear USB device.
I don't get the same issue with my cordless phone, also in the 2.4GHz spectrum. Perhaps it has something to do with the mode, or the density of the signal.
I dont feel the effect from other electronic devices or radio transmitters including mobile phones on the 850MHz
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I can prove it
How can someone who doesn't experience this have the right to say it's not true? Many of these people are weird, but a lot of them are just regular folks. If you don't want people to stand in judgment of you, then consider how you speak and treat others.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Wi-Fi makes me ill
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Iron in the blood
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Wi-Fi makes me ill
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Wi Fi + health
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: electromagnetic/RF hypersensitivity
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20061127/082049.shtml
and to ask a question.
Re: wifi sensitivity, I have had a room for about 10 years in a big ole house that, in winter, I can't live there because of woodsmoke pollution inside the house (bad leaky woodstoves AND holes in wall of my bedroom through whioch comes smoke from the chimney). So for at least one winter I was away AND I had to travel out of the area AND other reasons, kept me away from the house for about a year.
During the nonheating months, I felt pretty normal (I also have mold sensitivity and there is mold there, but it wasn't too bad). But when I returned after this apx. year absence and went upstairs to my room and lay down on my bed, I was feeling funny (sorta buzzy in my body is the best way I can describe it). There was nothing I could see that could cause this. But a short while later I learned they had installed wifi router while i was away--downstairs and a few feet over from my bed. A friend of mine there and I will be doing a "double blind" study at some point but until we can do this, i am going on asumption it is *probably* the wifi router (since that was the only thing that changed in the house) that was causing my unconfortability.
Now here's my (unrelated, except that it may have to do with RF) question: I am now living in a diferent location (it is winter so I'm away from the house that has the interior woodsmoke problem) and my room is right under a satellite dish (the only place in the room where I can sleep, is about 7 feet from the dish). This dish was installed when a former tenant lived there, and I, myself, am not subscribing, so it is not "active" in the sense that I am receiving a signal that is going into a TV. But could someone tell me please: Would the RF radiation that the satellite dish is designed to receive, still be focused OUT of the air, and ONTO that location (of the dish) even though I don't have a box inside my apartment that would be allowing the signal to be translated into sound and video on a television set? This is very important for me to know so that if the answer is yes, I can avoid renting a place in the future that has even an "INactive" (in the above sense) satellite dish near my living quarters.
Here are the symptoms I've been having in this apartment:
- high-pitched humming in my head
- falling down at the drop of a hat both inside the apartment andelsewhere
- feeling of listlessness even though I am very motivated to get lots done (and am NOT depressed)
Thank you to anyone who will answer my question about whether the satellite dish has to be *attached to something inside my apartment* in order to be sort of "accumulating" RF that then could be affecting me per the above symptoms.
I apologize if the above is a stupid question but I only just became aware that what the satellite dish is receiving is RF (radiofrequency) radiation from: http://www.hps.org/hpspublications/articles/rfradiation.htmland also just became aware that RF can be harmful, from: http://www.townsendletter.com/July2007/wifi0707.htm)
(I knew that cellphones radiation could be harmful from experience I've had with them, but did not know it was RF radiation in them until reading the 1st-mentioned url above)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I had the same experience but in India no one believes in all these things
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Google
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Headache
I am with the women.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
skeptical
Wireless router 12 inches from head on a shelf next to the bed in the spare room. Splitting headache next morning (no booze involved sadly) Had some laptops on in the house all night with regular traffic. Ignored it the second night, headache again (still no booze).. switched off the third night and no headache the next morning.
Yeah I'm still skeptical that rf causes it.. though we have a voda macrocell 40m away from my house and I sleep in full view of it normally through the window. I chalk the cluster headaches down to coffee and the aches to aging.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Mind Control
And that doesn't include the phone masts and mobile phones.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
WIFI MAKE ME SICK :((
Make TWO Rooms...
1. With WIFI
2. Without WIFI
Turn on the WIFI without me knowing... Let me enter, naked if you want me to.... Without Anything (Like Measuring Equipment's) I will tell you which Room has WIFI On and which Room doesn't have WIFI. If I FAILED, you can CHOP my head off :))
How's that?
And for the People who feel they are SICK because of WIFI... I just wanted you to know " YOU ARE NOT ALONE "
Here are my Symptoms;
Fatigue
Back Pain
Nausea
Dizziness
Moodiness
Headaches...
NOTE: When Heats come on in Winter... Like 68F Degree Over, it gets worst...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
WiFi makes me sick.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]