Yeah, Let's Blame YouTube For Lock Picking
from the pick-this dept
Another day, another case of misplaced blame over an online video. The latest is that it appears some people are upset about lock picking videos on YouTube. Note that they're not upset about the fact that their locks are vulnerable -- but that YouTube has videos on how to pick them. The thing is, plenty of people already know how to pick locks. I had (of all people) an art teacher in high school teach me how to pick locks and how to make lock picks using school equipment (it was a fun class, as you might imagine). I've also owned a set of books on lockpicking for well over a decade. No one thought to blame the printing press for making those books. Locks can be picked -- that's a fact. YouTube isn't the problem here. In some ways, this is the same "security by obscurity" discussion that happens all the time -- though some claim that it's different with physical locks, because they're not as easy to "patch." Of course, all of that assumes that it's these newly available videos and explanations that are leading to more malicious lockpicking. The fact is that the locks are vulnerable. Denying that by hiding the videos on YouTube doesn't solve much. If someone really wants to pick your locks, they'll find a way -- YouTube videos or no YouTube videos.
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Lock Picking & YouTube
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That's true, but putting the information in an easily accesible place would make a lot of people not serious into picking locks find the information.
Not that I am suggesting that the video's should be taken down, but i can understand why they are angry.
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Re:
I'd buy that, if it weren't just as easy to go to any search engine, plug in "Lock Picking" and get results on sites that sell pick sets to sites that host videos, not only YouTube.
Not to mention your local library surely has a book on lock picking. Information isn't to blame, it never has been, it's those who misuse the information that are to blame. Plain and simple. Hell, did you know that you have an extremely poisonous substance in your house right now, oh which only a few drops into a drink would kill someone? And did you know that it's in your fire detector?
All about information...
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Re:
rishi wrote: That's true, but putting the information in an easily accesible place would make a lot of people not serious into picking locks find the information.
... and? So what if it does? Criminal inclinations are the problem, not knowledge that *might* be used in such pursuits. I can open a door without picking a lock, and a lot quicker, with a swift kick right next to the doorknob (which is a lot more effective than the Hollywood shoulder-rush as it concentrates the force at the point you want to fail).
The line of reasoning behind "don't post the video" is basically the same logical fallacy behind gun control debates: "X can be dangerous, therefore we should ban X" The problem is that this does not take into account that X is only dangerous when used by people already inclined to be dangerous - the same people who will continue to be dangerous even if X is banned. Knowledge and tools are never the problem, it's the people. We've gotta ban the people.
I own a gun, and have never aimed it at a person, much less shot anyone. I know how to pick locks, I have never broken in or burglarized. I know how to slim-jim & hotwire a car, but I've never stolen an automobile. I know how to trace and tap phone lines. I know how to make explosives. I know a lot of things not documented here.
These are life skills. Everything above has had some practical and legal application at some point in my life, including kicking in the door. If someone else chooses to take these same skills and use them to violate the law, they should be punished for that, but that does not make the knowledge "criminal skills".
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Re:
you take down youtube while I burn down the libraries.
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Re: rishi
The thing is, most people don't have the patience to learn it and most that do aren't going to break into houses. Those that break into houses look for unlocked doors or they break windows. Bump keying is another story but it also has its own issues, like finding the keys since every locksmith in town is now aware of this.
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Idiotism
Soon, you will have black-hat and white-hat burglars. White hat will leave a "I walked around your house at night, get a better lock, dummy" note, black hat will rape your kids and set the house of fire, leaving a note "Why did you leave the windows open?"
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Locks aren't that safe in the first place
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Re: Locks aren't that safe in the first place
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Mike
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hacking
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MSM's attack on the Web
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Honestly, think about it. If someone wants your stuff bad enough they are going to take it whether or not they can pick a lock.
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Re:
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Doesn't Hold Up
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Re: Doesn't Hold Up
though, honestly, i see your point. the people who drive drunk are most likely stupid to begin with (because plenty of people are still smart enough to know better even when they're drunk) and someone who murders someone with a gun is still f*ed up to begin with. So, the comparison still works in general, It's just the arguments are just a itsy bit different.
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Re:
Please learn your vocabulary definitions. Most spelling errors don't bug me at all, but for some reason this one did!
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Re: Re:
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I'm suing WIKIPEDIA
a few weeks ago, however, a headline caught my eye: 'how to pick a lock.' this is something i've always wanted to know how to do - or at least how it's done and how other people do it. so i read... interesting... follow a few links to a few different sites on the subject... wow - i can do this... a few more clicks and i've ordered an awesome set of picks.
so it gets fedexed to my office (on my company's account) , and a few nights later, after mastering the conference room doors, i'm practicing on my boss' filing cabinet, when i break a pick that slices through my thumb, bounces off a mostly frozen hot dog and sticks me in the eye. i've bled all over the steel chair that i'm handcuffed to the in the building's security office before the paramedics show up to tell me i've got a piece of metal (and some hot dog bacteria) in my eye and severed a nerve in my hand and might go blind.
On the first page of the suit that i filed yesterday, under the 'defendant(s)' heading, i've listed with terrible penmanship (it's hard to write with only one eye - no depth perception and no opposable digit on my writing hand,) the company that made the picks, the file cabinet manufacturer, fedex, my company (who's fedex account i used), Wikipedia, and my company again, for paying me while i researched this fascinating subject.
if anyone knows who posted that wiki, please reply - the KGB is a bit understaffed these days.
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Re: I'm suing WIKIPEDIA
LOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Time for that evil spin again..
So what if someone were to post videos on the best way to use child psychology to get them to "go for a ride with a stranger"...?
No laws are being broken, no copyright violated... do you still share the belief that it is acceptable and that youtube has no obligation to do something about it?
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Re: Time for that evil spin again..
hosting videos on how to break the law
Assuming that this knowledge has no applicability outside of criminal actions is incorrect. Assuming that everyone interested in such knowledge has criminal tendancies is incorrect and insulting.
But by all means, carry on, carry on.
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Re: Re: Time for that evil spin again..
Its not me at all that thinks there is no value in the knowledge in how to kidnap children other than its inherent value in teaching would-be kidnappers how to not fail in their endeavors.
I actually have two small kids, and "I" researched this subject myself so as to know how to teach my own kids to be resilient. (Someone tried to kidnap me when I was 5, and I was only saved because a neighbor happened to notice and took action immediately.)
But I would NOT create and publish a video on how to do kidnap children, because it is not socially acceptable to do so. And if I were youtube, I would want od do something socially acceptable if I found out I had this sort of video in my repository...
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Re: Re: Re: Time for that evil spin again..
There is no legal application for the knowlege of "how to kidnap a child" there are plenty of legal reasons to pick locks
Get a better analogy. Fear Monger
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Streisand?
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Fox News
Fox news did a report on this yesterday, interviewing some "security expert" in New York about how angered he was at YouTube for providing these videos. He went on to say that this "whole Internet thing would be our downfall" (or something to that effect). Fox News also came to the conclusion that if someone's house was broken into and the burglar was found to have learned how to get in by watching a video on YouTube, that YouTube would be held responsible and sued for damages. If you ask me, this guy needs to go back to "security school" and learn something about security in today's age. He just feels threatened.
I watch "It Takes a Thief" on the Discovery Channel. I'm gonna go break into someone's house, and then sue The Discovery Channel for teaching me how to do it.
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If you are planning on breaking into a building, you're going to BREAK into the building. It just faster that way, and your common crook just wants to get your shit.
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Anonymous Coward
here's to DZmodelman for a creative illustration of how to respond to ludicrous subjects.
AC take note.
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Blame
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Faster
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Information is a dangerous thing...
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It's all Deibold's fault...
Whatever happened to individual responsibility?
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information isn't bad
someone said that a video demonstrating how to use psychology to lure a kid into a ride with a stranger wouldn't get the same treatment. i disagree. watch or read any information on self defense. there is plenty of detail about attacks, how attackers operate, and how they pick victims. i wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a video on you tube about that right now.
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Lockpicking for dummies.....
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Irresponsible
However, I do believe in this case it's irresponsible for YouTube (and the publisher) to host videos on lock picking because they are an aid to criminal activity. (That said, one could have a perfectly legitimate reason for wanting to know how to pick a lock which muddies the issue.)
Thing is, you can't regulate this stuff because chances are that would lead to Government censorship in the end.
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Re: Irresponsible
Phil Peter wrote: However, I do believe in this case it's irresponsible for YouTube (and the publisher) to host videos on lock picking because they are an aid to criminal activity.
Repeat after me: a skill is a skill. Information is information. A tool is a tool. Every skill, piece of information, and tool, no matter how seemingly onerous, has a perfectly legitimate purpose. What defines "criminal" is the intent of the individual wielding the skill, tool, or information.
That said, one could have a perfectly legitimate reason for wanting to know how to pick a lock which muddies the issue.
That does not muddy the issue, that is the issue entirely. To assume that, by default, interested parties have criminal intents for the information is incorrect and insulting (as I said before). To try to ban information for these (incorrect) reasons is misguided at best, and counterproductive in practice (the more you ban a thing, the more it tends to reside solely with those of criminal intent).
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Picking Locks
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Re: Picking Locks URGENT
Any tips? My wallet is in there!!!
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Thanks
Thank you for helping me find my new career path!
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Lock "industry"
Oh, has anyone ever kicked in a house door? What good is a lock if it is only securing the door to a quarter inch of wood? Picking the lock takes too much time.
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Re: Lock
Think of all the high-profit-margin entry systems they could be selling right now?
14-pin asymetrical lock cylinders (7 pins top & bottom), for instance. Very pick-resistant. Or, at least, enough of a hassle that most people wouldn't bother even if they could. Most common exterior entry locks are single-row 5 pin, sometimes 6 pin.
Oh, has anyone ever kicked in a house door? What good is a lock if it is only securing the door to a quarter inch of wood?
Good question. Deadbolts should be double-throw with a sleeved strike - make sure your bolt is catching a wall stud. If your deadbolt is only catching by the doorframe then it's nothing more than a showpiece.
Also, the closer the doorknob and the deadbolt are together, the smaller the point-of-failure if someone tries to kick in the door. The locks should be at least 6" apart. 2 deadbolts, 1 each 12" above and below the doorknob, is better.
Don't forget that people break in through the doors because they're the weak point. Once you get enough locks on the door, all you've done is move the weak point. Glass breaks easily, and the "locks" don't offer any security if you can reach the inside. Put some good, solid wrought iron bars over the windows. Again, make sure they are firmly attached to wall studs. Bars do no good if they're easily ripped off.
Doors and windows secure? Good. You're done, right? Not quite. If you have vinyl siding, it will peel off quite easily, and it's not difficult to punch through blueboard and drywall... say, right next to an entrance door... stick an arm through and open the door from the inside. Brick up the walls around your entryways if possible, or at least put something more durable under the vinyl siding like chipboard, plywood, or metal plating.
Assuming, of course, that your would-be burglar doesn't sawzall out a chunk out of the door around the locks. Specify entry doors that have hardened plates embedded to prevent this.
Of course, if you've gone this far, you probably still don't feel safe, because someone could break into your crawl space and come up through the floor. Or down the chimney. Or through the attic.
Best to replace all exterior walls with 24-30" of steel reinforced concrete. And a solid steel entry door. And who really needs windows, anyway? Surround the whole works with 3 stages of razorwire atop 12' of electric fence for good measure. Actually, make that 15' - you'll want to bury 3' to discourage tunnelling... and you may as well put some automated flak guns on the roof. Never know when somebody might try to literally "drop in".
Top the whole works off with a hypersensitive alarm system, some red flashing lights and a klaxon, and you'll be just about safe.
The aliens can still read your mind, though...
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Re: Re: Lock
I actually did that once, but my homeowners association made me take it down... Sigh..
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Re: Re: Lock
but, 24" of concrete is a bit excessive. you can get roughly the same security features out of 14" with #4 rebar spaced 6" O.C.
and the automated flak's on the roof could provide a legal issue. mantraps are highly discouraged - but i'm an architect, not a lawyer.
BTW - i got fired today - i'm suing techdirt because my boss read the above posting.
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Re: Re: Re: Lock
24" of concrete is a bit excessive. you can get roughly the same security features out of 14" with #4 rebar spaced 6" O.C.
Fair enough, and more economical. I was shooting from the cuff at a wall that would survive an airplane strike. I figured it went well with the anti-aircraft munitions on the roof :-)
For the record, though, if anybody cares to ignore my digression turning your house into a military bunker, a lot of the other things I said really are sound security tips. It's called "target hardening". You don't have to make your house look like a fortress, you just have to make it look more difficult to breach than the house next to it.
And most theives aren't going to muck about with the delicate art of hand-picking your lock. If they bother picking the lock at all, it will be with one of these, which kinda makes all the noise about the YouTube video silly. Most likely, they'll kick in the door. That's why it's called breaking and entering.
Not that there's a chance anybody will ever read this thread again - I mean, it was posted all the way back on yesterday fer-christ-sake.
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just become
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Sue the paper manufacturers!
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my lock pick video
there are hundreds of lock pick tutorial videos on youtube so why did they single out mine ???
should i sue them for using my footage? or do i need to hide from the fbi lol
happy picking ;-)
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wow...
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Retarded fearmongering, please maintain ignorance.
"It's BAD because it makes the information more accessible, weh!" A lot worse is made accessible: the fact that by watching an action movie or TV show, a human being would even get the *idea* that they can murder another human being. Does this mean we should ban all action movies?
No. It doesn't matter how loud the public outcry is. Seems like there's a public outcry going on every two seconds in the emotionally-out-of-control crowd.
It's funny because, this kind of information has been accessible for decades. They're pretty slow if they are just *now* picking it up. No pun intended ;-)
>
No, not irresponsible. Youtube is little different than typing "lockpicking" into Google, Yahoo!, Dogpile, Msn, etc. Are movies and TV shows that feature daring prison escapes, stealthy murders, and other "criminal" technicalities also aiding criminals? I learned how a human can easily be killed after reading a book. Should all of those books be banned? Personally, if the U.S. wants to go uproot all websites and books that teach anything that could be misconstrued as promoting criminal activity, it'll be quite a waste of taxpayer dollars and violations of Amendment #1... a hassle not worth dealing with.
You want to fight crime? Start with yer kids.
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Lock picking...
A video on you-tube isn't going to change anything. People who are going to pick locks in a malicious manner don't need a video to show them how to do it and people who wouldn't, would not actually click on the link to see how. Its horrible how britain is becoming a police state where freedom of speech etc is prohibited.
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yours burgaler bill lmfao
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Def
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