Sony Now Re-Writing History: Claims PS2 Drove Success Of The DVD Format
from the surfing-the-wave-doesn't-mean-you-created-it dept
Sony has been facing plenty of problems (er... challenges) lately, from exploding batteries to rootkits to PS3 launch troubles, and it's even resulted in them claiming awards they didn't win. However, it appears that Sony CEO Howard Stringer has gone even further. Another Mike submitted a recent interview with Stringer where he talks about how the PS3 will drive the adoption of Blu-Ray, and then proceeds to do a little rewriting of history: "The people who like Blu-ray are the people who play PlayStation 3, just as people who play PS2s were the early proponents of the DVD format. It drove the DVD format." That seems to be a rather convenient rewriting of history. It is true that the PS2 included a DVD player, which helped in selling the PS2, but it hardly drove the format. Surfing a big wave that already is going strong hardly means you created that wave. As for the Blu-Ray, there are big differences this time around. Unlike the DVD which was already a big and growing success at the time the PS2 launched, Blu-Ray is still very early, and many people don't see the reason to upgrade. Furthermore, the addition of the Blu-Ray drive to the PS3 is a big part of why the company has had trouble selling the console. It drove up the cost significantly, forcing Sony to price the PS3 well above the competition (even while taking a loss on each device). So, even if the history did support Stringer's view, the same factors aren't in play this time around.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Driving the suckcess
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Uhm... It did.
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Re: John
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Re: Re: John?
It’s funny, because the PS2 sold 182 million units, and every retro video game documentary in which tech experts talk about the PS2 says that the data say the PS2 made the format affordable, long before home stereo DVD players were affordable, and that it also drove the production of DVD-player components, making all other DVD players more affordable*.” (emphasis added)
When the PS2 came out, DVD players might have been “the rage,” as the moron who wrote this article (and who doesn’t know what the word “drove” means — which isn’t that it began the popularity of DVDs), but rather, that it made the players, over which people were fanatical and “raging,” actually able to OWN a DVD player.
The PS2 was the single biggest-selling single machine that played DVDs, from 2002 -2007, much like the Commodore 64 is the largest-selling home computer, of all time — another record that will never be beaten.
So, if, as a DVD-playing device, the PS2 didn’t drive sales, then please let me know, given your knowledge of “high end” A/V, whom I’m sure has never owned anything close to a McIntosh component of any kind — what non-abstraction drove the adoption of DVDs?
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Re:
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At this point HDDVD is a little bit less expensive (450 dollar HDDVD Player or 499 dollar ps3?) The discs are the same, on many dvd discount sites, HDDVD and BD are BOTH 19-23 bucks.
I digress. People will need an upgrade, the difference between a standard dvd (720x480) and a hi def disc (1920x1080) is more than a small step.
People complained that they would never get rid of their VHS tapes when DVD was becoming big, now those very people have 1000 DVD collections.
PS3 WILL push the installed base of BD players astronomically higher than what HDDVD will be in 1 years time (estimate on when the avg consumer will start to purchase a hi def unit).
BD wins.
ANyway, would you rather say BD than HDDVD?
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Re:
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On the other hand, i have computers, lots of them, and i play computer games, i have no interest in console gaming (my gamecube 3DO and Xbox will do fine thank you) and my PC games and graphics will be better on my flatscreen CRTs anyhow. So for me the upgrade might be a big step, but i dont need to leap, when i can walk just fine.
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Re:
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Re:
You obviously have Z-E-R-O understanding. Why do you bother to post on a topic when it just makes you sound like an ignorant jackass?
Go educate yourself you lazy bastard.
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I think you are wrong
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Re: I think you are wrong
I know almost no one that uses their PS2 as a DVD player. I have in a pinch, twice in the almost 5 years I have had it.
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SONY changed a while back...
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Backwards
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Actually
And until there is a crtical mass of HDTV's in American homes, which won't be for several years, there will be no reason for having HD movie players.
Other than HD what does it offer over DVD? ... more deleted scenes? Another set of Star Wars movies?
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format
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Nice "Journalism" Fool
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Re: Nice "Journalism" Fool
Did the PS2 increase the number of DVD players in people's homes? Yes.
Had the DVD format already become very well established and had it already created a self-sustaining and rapidly growing market before the launch of the PS2? Yes.
Can Sony therefore really claim any credit for the success of the DVD format? No.
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It's over....
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Re: It's over....
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Sony Now Re-Writing History: Claims PS2 Drove Succ
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You are so stupid
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Re: You are so stupid
-Ken
SomeLife
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Porn the deciding factor?
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sony
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Re: SONY
Nearly 250 million units later — having officially won three generations of home gaming consoles — and being perceived as the best popular pro-sumer HD/4K/8K TVs and Blu-Ray players — not to mention that video games is now, by far, the most profitable medium humans use, you must be really mad at Sony, now. The next five years aren’t going to be any fun, for you, either...
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Hmm. . .
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wow...
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My Worthless Opinion
"The PS2 was the fastest selling console when it was launched. The PS3 sold faster."
But the Wii and Xbox 360 are selling heck of a lot faster than the PS3. (off topic, but, you know :P )
"either to sue the shit out of them"
People like you are the ones who clog up the judicial system.
"The Adult Film Industry has picked HD-DVD format. It's over for Blue Ray. Sorry, but the truth sucks some times."
You do make a good point, but don't forget Blu-ray has supporters like Apple, Dell, Hitachi, Fox, Disney, and of course Sony (plus many others).
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2 options
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and about the whole porn thing, porn helped vhs win over betamax, but that was before the internet. the internet has caused the demand for porn on disc to go down. and the demand for movies on disc has gone way up. i don't think porn is going to be as influential as it was in the last format war.
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Hey Physics Guy. . .
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Uhm, PS3s are selling for crap
Yeah, the PS3 might be leading the way for BD, but even with a high def tv AND being a passionate gamer AND being an early adopter, I have zero desire to purchase a PS3... and it's mostly because of the damn stupid BD drive. I thought it was a stupid idea when I first heard it, and I chuckle with glee every time I see a big pile of PS3s sitting on a shelf somewhere.
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Sony is doomed
Sony is screwed. 2007 is just going to get worse for them.
Also, with both Microsoft and the Adult industry backing HD-DVD, along with three major studies and the tech industry, Blu-Ray will end up losing.
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HDDVD
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Hey Tack
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Re: Hey Tack
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Kyros
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PS2 not only wrote their games with a DVD format but they could play them with the default system setup. The only system that did that, or made strides to. It's not a stretch to say without the PS2 DVD's wouldn't have gotten as far as they have today. Think about it, when the PS2 was released how many DVD players on the market were below $100? I'm willing to bet close to none. And therefore yes, the PS2 did drive forward the development of DVDs. Don't twist the words, that's all they said and that's all that's true.
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The first DVD Player was launched in 1996 FOUR YEARS before the PS2 was.
FOUR YEARS.
And that makes PS2 owners "early proponents of the DVD format"? Um... No.
By the time the PS2 launched there was already 15 MILLION DVD players in the United States.
The period of 2000 to 2001, when the PS2 was launched, didn't see a larger growth in DVD market penetration than any of the previous years or the next year. There is no huge spike in the household penetration, it just grew at the same steady growth that it had been and continued to do. Therefore release of the PS2 had no significant increase in the household penetration of DVD players. This is probably because by the time the PS2 was released, 4 years after the debut of DVD players and given the nature of PS2 buyers, most (most, not every) PS2-buying household already had a DVD player. Or these households were already set to buy a DVD player whether they PS2 came out or not, one of the many millions of households that bought DVD players in 2001.
In 2000, when the PS2 was only on the market for a couple months, DVD sales almost surpassed VHS sales. Yes, that's right, DVDs were already so big before the PS2 even launched, that they were already set to pass VHS sales. And by the end of 2001, just 1 year after the PS2 launch when its' penetration was still quite low, DVD sales had already surpassed VHS sales.
You cannot even remotely claim that that situation is the same as the PS3/Blu-Ray situtation where, for all intents and purposes, the PS3 IS the first Blu-Ray player and there was virtually no market penetration AT ALL of the format prior to the PS3 launch.
And let's talk numbers on the whole Pr0n thing, since so many people believe that DVD Porn doesn't matter thesedays...
In 2005 almost $5 billion was spent on DVD Porn. In that same year, $20 billion was spent on motion picture DVDs -- 1 out of every 5 dollars spent on DVDs is spent on Porn.
Now tell me that porn isn't still a driving force in the optical media industry.
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Re: Hey Physics Guy. . .
the responses here have gotten absurd. meaningless numbers thrown around as to what is selling what... and you're trying to tell me the anti-sony people are bad?
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yeah
If Sony would have made the PS3 compatible with PS2 and PS1 games it would be selling a lot more than it is now. I bought my PS2 because I could play DVDs on it and my old PS1 games.....so at the time the dvd was already out so sony couldn't "drive" the market, but it did help it out (any extra push to something is going to help). The same thing happened with the Porn industry and the betamax/vhs thing too, the porn industry gave a huge push to vhs.
What it is going to come down to is who can make the hardware the cheapest and the discs the cheapest......and who can do it the fastest (and sony requiring you to start your whole collection of games and movies playable on a console isn't going to help much and is going to limit the sales of that console).
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Who cares how many were "below $100". The PS2 was $300 when it launched.
And, yes, when it launched there were already cheaper (and better) DVD players on the market. You could pick up a DVD player in 2000 for about half the price of a PS2.
And that's not Sony/PS2-bashing. I got a PS2 at launch myself.
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Hey someone
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-
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the claim is preposterous.
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History Lesson
In Japan when it came out there in March 2000, six months earlier, DVD player sales hadn't taken off yet. Combine the small size of most Japanese apartments with a new game system that could replace your old PS with a "free" built in DVD player for 40000 yen (the Sega Dreamcast was 30000 yen in late November 1998), it was an instant hit. Now with more DVD players in people's homes, Sony's movie division (Columbia/Tri Star) had more people to sell DVDs to. So yes in their eyes the success of the PS2 drove DVD sales by getting a player into the home by bundling a DVD player with a game system.
Of course there wasn't any real alternative format out at the time unlike the Blu-Ray Vs HD-DVD battle that is going on now. Well in the states there was the horrid Circuit City DIVX DVD format (an pay to play format, not the DivX compression technology) but that died in 1999. But while it was going on not all movie studios released their movies on DVD, some (Disney for one) would only sell it on DIVX DVDs.
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We Suck
“The PS3 is a total disaster on so many levels. I think it’s really clear that Sony lost track of what customers wanted and what developers wanted. I’d say, even at this late date, they should cancel it and do a ‘do over.’ Just say, ‘This was a horrible disaster and we’re sorry and we’re going to stop selling this and stop trying to convince people to develop for it.’”
So no Half Life on Ps3 then?
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Too Skeptical
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You guys need to stop shouting that Sony has sold 110 million consoles, so therefore, they drove the DVD format. Sony did not reach those numbers until christmas of this year. So quit it, just.. stop.
On another note, the playstation 2 was a horrible dvd player untill the newer model with progressive scan was added, and even then, they were subject to screw up; so is the legend of the PS2. And as has been pointed out already, by the time DVD's became mainstream, there were already better, and cheaper players.
Oh, and another thing. You guys looking at online retailers, aren't looking hard enough. Browse around some more, hell.. maybe even go to a brick and mortar shop. There was a statement issued less than a week ago saying that 28/52 shops had anywhere from 2-60 60gb PS3's laying around, that "weren't selling all that fast."
Listen. Ken Kutaragi has been going ape-shiat crazy with smearing the Sony name around - most effectively with the PS3. All this is, is a little positive spin, and some spot cleaning done by some sane and rational players over at Sony.
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You all lose
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Re: You all lose
Yes they have and they use it almost exclusively for movies on BD/HD-DVD.
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Sony's "100 million PS2"
So "100 million" definetly doesn't mean that there are anywhere near that many functioning PS2s out there. They just sold that many to replace their own products.
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This just in...
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This just in...
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Sony can claim whatever they want...
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Drive on..
In fact friends of mine who own the PS2 were already DVD owners prior to purchasing the console. Certianly the PS2 contributed, but I wouldn't say it was the primary driver.
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Silly comparisons
The logic is ludicrous. Remember:
* DVD players had been around for four years when the PS2 launched. DVD was already an established format.
* DVD had no competing format to go up against.
* The leap from VHS to DVD was more than just a visual upgrade. Instant access to any part of the movie, special features like commentaries and deleted scenes, surround sound ... and other than the enhanced audio, you didn't need ANY special equipment to experience these benefits.
* The leap from DVD to HD DVD/Blu-ray is primarily visual. There are some minor enhancements to audio and to special features, but it's an evolution, not a revolution that way VHS --> DVD was. Many casual consumers, the types of people who MUST be won over for a format to succeed, can't even immediately tell the difference between upconverted DVD and HD DVD/Blu-ray.
* HD DVD/Blu-ray REQUIRES an HDTV, and the majority of American homes still have standard defintion sets.
* The Betamax vs. VHS war is still fresh in peoples' minds, and because of that the casual consumer will not buy into either high def DVD format until one is an obvious winner.
* Just because the current capacity of HD DVD is 25 GB doesn't mean it will always be so. Commercially available higher capacity discs are a given within a year or two.
* Just because more studios currently back Blu-ray doesn't mean they always will. You can rest assured that if HD DVD starts to become dominant, all of the studios will switch over and release their films on HD DVD as well. Sony/MGM will be the last holdout, but if HD DVD ultimately wins the format war, even they will have no choice but to switch.
* Sony will say and do ANYTHING to promote and protect Blu-ray. ANYTHING. All of their eggs are in the Blu-ray basket. If Blu-ray fails, the PS3's movie playback is no better a feature than UMD playback on the PSP, and it simply becomes an overpriced game console fighting against two very strong competitors. So anything Sony says about Blu-ray comes with a very explicit agenda.
Step back and look at the big picture, folks. It's really not that hard.
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And HD-DVD lovers somehow seem to forget, that HD-DVD wasn't even going to exist, until MS started backing it :) Yes, thats right, thanks to MS and its cash HD-DVD BECAME a competing format. Otherwise there wouldnt be all this stupidity.
Then you get writers like this claiming that the PS2 didnt push DVD sales - sorry to burst your bubble, but it did. PS2 sold 30 million units in first two years, almost 3 times more than any of the competing DVD players.. hrm?
Now, PS3.. since PS3's launch, BluRay sales are now about 3:1 to HD-DVD.. previous it was about 1:1.. people who claim commodity devices like console machines have no effect on media uptake are plain idiots.
And people keep quoting betamax vs vhs as if its some sort of precedent? What are you people on? Formats have come and gone FOR ALL SORTS OF REASONS.. and funnily enough.. even betamax survived in the professional video industry, so its hard to justify it as a failure in any case?
The whole thing is you fanboys get onto your favourite stupid electronics device, and tell everyone "buy this one cos its the best.. and I know everything..", fact is in 5 years time, no one will even care.. so get the hell over it. Consoles, media, electronics come and go so quickly its pointless trying to be some stupid voice for a company marketing a product. Buy what you like and be happy.. quit being a product evangelist.
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gmail
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