Tech Firms To State Dept: Stop Us Before We Help Censor The Internet In China Again
from the say-what? dept
It's no secret that the technology behind "the great firewall of China" is often supplied by American firms. While Google has received plenty of criticism for its own policies in China, lots of other companies are just as bad, if not worse -- and the US government has been investigating the matter for some time. That's why it's interesting to see various tech companies defending their China policies to the State Department, but at the same time sending a slightly different message, suggesting that the real way to deal with this is diplomatically. That is, they want the State Department to include state-sponsored censorship as a "free trade" issue in diplomatic discussions with China, pushing China to cut down on such practices. That might make sense, but it still sounds a little funny coming from the same firms who are helping to censor the internet in the country. Obviously, part of it is (as they claim) that they're just living under the local laws -- but it still seems like a situation where, if they have such a problem with it, perhaps they shouldn't be helping to keep the practice alive.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Ahem
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Re: Ahem
I would say China has failed to make communism anything more than an excuse.
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Re: Ahem
communism is great in theory, but in practice it will always fail. it assumes the best of everyone, but what you can see in the world is that in general, people are usually never at their best.
capitalism capitalizes on some of the not so great parts of our general behavior and in turn creates some good out of it.
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Re: Re: Ahem
Interesting point, but Capitalism assumes the best of the few people in power. As you say, "people are usually never at their best", I suppose that's how situations like Enron arise. Unfortunately in the corporate world, integrity does not equal power, $=power.
In the end, the masses are at the mercy of those in control. Sounds familiar, oh right, its the Feudal System reborn. Anyway, cue the brainwashed idiots who were taught to "Kill a Commie for Mommy"...
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Re: Re: Ahem
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Re: Ahem
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Think of it as expanding their market.
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I'm tired
Sure, censorship is a bad thing.. but the overall good outweighs the bad here.
Are the people of china better or worse off having access to things they do (even though it's censored), than having no access at all? Of course they are! Even a portion of Google is better than no Google at all right?
Any company that does business in China is still creating a greater good for the peopl than they would have had they refused due to censorship.
Secondly, these companies have a duty to their stockholders to increase profits. Expanding into China is a good way to do so.
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Re: I'm tired
Not only do I disagree, but I strongly disagree. And so do all the people you are tired of hearing complain.
Secondly, these companies have a duty to their stockholders to increase profits. Expanding into China is a good way to do so.
Yes and no. It "was" a good way to do so. Lately, however the free press has decided to take a stand against it, and the negative press these companies are recieving is negating their prospective growth opportunities by expanding into that market. Thus we are seeing publicly traded companies backpedaling. They don't want to be associated with this anymore. This "cost of doing business" is too high.
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RE:Ahem
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Re: RE:Ahem
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Makes sense, really.
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no..
I bet the people would be a lot more pissed off if you completely took away their "censored" internet.
Ask any person in China. They'd rather have censored than nothing at all. So, until you can provide them with full content... what's the harm in providing them censored content?
These companies are making money while legally providing a service that the people of China want. I see nothing wrong with that.
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Communism ruined China...
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I'm no expert...
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make it illegal
If you don't want companies doing something you find objectionable, pass a law against it. That is the only thing that will work. It is that simple.
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Re: make it illegal
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1) Goverment law trumps our charter/policy (sometimes unstated)
2) Make Money
3) Be Nice
In that order. The companies are doing what they are "designed" to do in China, etc.
Change the law...
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Question
Just a thought about why we should meddle with social policies?
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Buffer Overflow anyone?
lol
China would ditch the whole system after the first 9000 patches in a year.
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The Good Ol' Days
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Marxism
The major problem with communism is the no-one has yet been benevolent and competent who implemented it. A large part of the economic problems the USSR had towards the end were the result of any sort of quality control, profit motive, or common sense. For example, in one factory, they produced sunglasses so dark that you could not see the sun through them and a balls so thin that they burst when you kicked them. THere were regular trains carrying concrete roofing beams from Moscow to (I believe) Stalingard, passing a train of concrete roofing beams going from Stalingrad to Moscow. Passenger trains ran empty so that teh required mileage would be achieved. THen there was the problem of corruption. Goods allocated to factories under state plans were insuffiecient to manufacture the required items, so the managers had to bribe suppliers to get another factories supplies. By the time this was done, and the supplies were actually delivered, there was so little time to actually make the goods that tehy were rushed and badly finished. all these examples came from the following books:
M Bucklow and G Russel. Russia: Why Revolution? Addison Wesley
Longman Australia Pty Limted, Sydney, 2 edition, 1991.
or possibly:
Steve Philips. Lenin and the Russian Revolution. Hinemann Advanced
History. Hienemann Educational Publishers, 2000.
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